medical school rankings

[superdevil]

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Residency NJMS JHU Stanford

Dermatology 4 6 7
general surgery 11 9 3
plastic surgery 1 3 1
Radiology(all) 13 9 11
anesthesiology 8 3 7
ortho surgery 8 6 5



here is a nice little side by side comparison.....i chose just a few competative ones....i compared NJMS with the "legendary" johns hopkins.....and stanford

sorry, but this is a pretty meaningless comparison. you're comparing apples and oranges. NJMS has a class size of 170. stanford has a class size of 87. ooo, NJMS sent 2(!) more people into rads residencies. wow. were they at MGH, cleveland clinic, or mayo? stanford's probably were.

i'm sure NJMS is a great school, but this table doesn't prove it.

 

[drguy22]

an example is ucsf, where most people go into primary care (not competitive), although if they wanted to do the most competitive residencies i'm sure just about every one of those people going into primary care would get in... definitely not true of njms or other schools that are mediocre at best (and that's being generous).

then according to ur theory...whats the point of going to a "top" school..if all you will be doing in primary care?

how can you be so sure??? that maybe they did want to go into competative residencies..but just couldnt get it. u need to back up your statement with facts, and US news is not enough...they way they rank is really ridiculous...even if some of the "lower" schools made it to the top I would not follow that list, unless they changed the way they ranked the schools.

 

[constructor]

then according to ur theory...whats the point of going to a "top" school..if all you will be doing in primary care?

how can you be so sure??? that maybe they did want to go into competative residencies..but just couldnt get it. u need to back up your statement with facts, and US news is not enough...they way they rank is really ridiculous...even if some of the "lower" schools made it to the top I would not follow that list, unless they changed the way they ranked the schools.

they go to these top schools because they have a great reputation for primary care. they want to be well-trained and they're not going to be trained equally at all schools as they see it (and who can blame them?). doing primary care does not preclude being involved in research. at the average schools, most primary care students are not going to do research, but at these top schools they do. why does primary care not warrant having to go to a top school for you?

look at the percentage of people going into primary care from ucsf and you'll see my point. if you get interviews at these schools, they show you details on how people match and how many people applied only for primary care residencies. these are the brightest people in the country... they could all get surgery easily if that's what they wanted to do. you wouldn't understand because you refuse to, of course. and i'm not using us news at all for any of this so i don't know what the hell you're complaining about. you're living in an illusional world and i, too, see that you're very insecure from all of your posts. just get over it and accept where you are and who you are... you'll be a very good doctor but stop trying to take away from others' accomplishments.

 

[drguy22]

they go to these top schools because they have a great reputation for primary care. they want to be well-trained and they're not going to be trained equally at all schools as they see it (and who can blame them?). doing primary care does not preclude being involved in research. at the average schools, most primary care students are not going to do research, but at these top schools they do. why does primary care not warrant having to go to a top school for you?

look at the percentage of people going into primary care from ucsf and you'll see my point. if you get interviews at these schools, they show you details on how people match and how many people applied only for primary care residencies. these are the brightest people in the country... they could all get surgery easily if that's what they wanted to do. you wouldn't understand because you refuse to, of course. and i'm not using us news at all for any of this so i don't know what the hell you're complaining about. you're living in an illusional world and i, too, see that you're very insecure from all of your posts. just get over it and accept where you are and who you are... you'll be a very good doctor but stop trying to take away from others' accomplishments.

first of all..im not insecure... secondly, I know that i will be a very good doctor, no one has to tell me this and..im not not trying to take away from others accomplishments.....from what u have said in all your others post...it is you that are taking away from others accomplishments......what about the people that go to the "lower tier" medical school??? They havent accomplished anything?? from your statement it seems that only people that get into harvard and stanford and other so called "top" medical schools have accomplished something..while the others have accomplished $hit. You seem to think that because you MIGHT be attending a "top school" you are superior than others that arent. Let me tell you my friend that in the real world, you will be working with doctors from the so called "lower tier" medical schools. I'm not trying to put NJMS on a pedistal, trust me thats not my point....im only trying to say that the school name will NOT matter if you work hard, (which is something you have to do in ANY medical school), get good board scores, good letters, and good pre-clinical and clinical grades.

 

[FoughtFyr]

What sets medical schools apart is the clinical experience. This is where hospitals like MGH, JHH, Mayo Clinic, Barnes Jewish, UCSF have a huge advantage. The clinical experience makes the doctor, and lets face it, the clincal experience at these "top" schools are oftentimes superior to those at lesser schools, especialy for specialties.

Sure, you can argue that you might get "more" experience at a community hosital where you "do" more, but in the end, there is a reason why everyone wants to get treated for everything at JHH.

Absolutely true ExMike, if you are talking about residencies. But medical school is a different kettle of fish. I will grant you that MGH, JHH, Mayo, etc. are fantastic hospitals. There is no question these are the top places to do residency training. But, the medical student experience, which is tested by national shelf exams, is often "catch-as-catch-can" at these institutions. The shelf exams focus on the basic, routine pathologies, but at "top shop" hospitals, the residency teams spend far more time on the "zebras". One-to-one instruction by attendings can be rare or absent, making each student's experience vary based on resident assignment. Sometimes the best residents are not the best teachers. And procedures are hard to come by (as you pointed out). Now, I am not saying that a top-quality student from these institutions will do poorly. There is no question that is not true. What I am saying is two things that have been lost in this discussion...

1. USN&WR is not a medical agency. Their rankings are arbitrary, and are not based in any real tangible measure. While the overall reputation of an institution can help, its specific USN&WR ranking does not matter at all (which was the OP's question). This is aptly demonstrated when certain specialties, e.g., EM, are considered. The "top" schools for EM include Indiana, Cincinnati, and Michigan. I'm sure similar disparities could be noted in other specialties.

2. The amount of "help" given to a residency applicant from their school's reputation is small. In my opinion, as someone who has not only gone through the match, but also as someone matched competitively, this benefit is so small as to not offset personal discomfort. What I mean is, if a person, for whatever reason, would be more comfortable (and thus likely more successful) at an "unranked" school that is where they should attend. Medical school is challenging enough, without sacrificing comfort for some popular media outlet's perception of superiority. Go where you will be most successful. A Harvard grad with a 230 and mediocre LORs will be left in the dust during the match by the US grad from an unranked school with a 220 and glowing LORs.

And let me be VERY clear - these points only pertain to the choice of medical school. Residency is a whole different ballgame.

On the flip side, there is one point that has been left out of the discussion from those advocating the USN&WR rankings. There is, at some institutions during the match, a "homer" factor. If you notice, many match lists contain students staying at their medical school for residency. This isn't by chance but rather a "better the devil you know" choice by residency directors. I think this often accounts for some of the "strength" in match lists by the "top ranked" schools. So, I will agree, if you have your heart set on doing a residency at a particular institution, and that institution historically favors it's own students (some don't), by all means - go there! Of course, that rule is true regardless of their USN&WR ranking!

- H

 

[beatla19]

i dont need to. its already generally accepted as fact. whats the point of wasting my effort on someone that isnt going to change their opinion?

I think that's what some homies said to Galileo a few years back, regarding that whole Earth/Sun thing. 😉

 

[firebody]

I think that's what some homies said to Galileo a few years back, regarding that whole Earth/Sun thing. 😉

you BUMPED this thread up just to say this crap?$# what the hell, you coulda said something that at least makes sense. Galileo? Earth/Sun? you dummy....i think you need to change it around and say it was galileo that was trying to enlighten them to a fact, in which they(aka homies) wouldn't listen. either way, it's a stupid reference to use as comparison.

thanks though...i needed this, so don't take it too personal.

 

[Iamajew]

This post is really funny. It seriously depends on who you talk to with regards to what the rankings mean with regards to residency. You also have to factor in your LIFE: you might not want to be that neurosurgeon because you want to be a good husband/father (or wife/mother) to your family and want some time do something other than practicing medicine.

Also, i think it's amazing how a few posts back WatchingWaiting implied that competition differentiates between doctors and nurses/social workers. That's just ridiculous. Some people actually want to become MDs because of the TREATMENT aspect of the medical profession.

 

[Iamajew]

Hey buddy... I am going to be a neurosurgeon (can you say 25+ interviews at top tier programs!!) and I am a father and a husband. Are you implying that the two are incompatible? Dont jump all over someone else's generalizations if you are going to make some ludicrous ones as well.

Wow "buddy" - i was just stating the obvious: neurosurgery is considered to be a very time intensive profession, one that CAN seriously compromise anyone's ability to successfully manage family and medicine. Of course it is a generalization, but not a ludicrous one. Congratulations on your "25+ interviews at top tier programs!!"...and best of luck on your future as a neurosurgeon.

 

[Jeffy]

Hey buddy... I am going to be a neurosurgeon (can you say 25+ interviews at top tier programs!!) and I am a father and a husband. Are you implying that the two are incompatible? Dont jump all over someone else's generalizations if you are going to make some ludicrous ones as well.

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to trample over Jew's remark.

 

[FoughtFyr]

BUMP

I came across and article in Academic Medicine that directly answered the OP's question. I have posted the abstract and source below (the full article was way too long.

- H

Acad Med. 2001 Oct;76(10):985-92.

America's best medical schools: a critique of the U.S. News & World Report rankings.

McGaghie WC, Thompson JA.

Medical Education and Preventive Medicine, Northwestern University Medical School, Chicago, Illinois 60611-3008, USA.

Rankings of American medical schools published annually by the news magazine U.S. News & World Report are widely used to judge the quality of the schools and their programs. The authors describe and then critique the rankings on methodologic and conceptual grounds, arguing that the annual U.S. News medical school evaluation falls short in both areas. Three categories of program quality indicators different from those used by U.S. News are presented as alternative ways to judge medical schools. The authors conclude that the annual U.S. News & World Report rankings of American medical schools are ill-conceived; are unscientific; are conducted poorly; ignore medical school accreditation; judge medical school quality from a narrow, elitist perspective; and do not consider social and professional outcomes in program quality calculations. The medical school rankings have no practical value and fail to meet standards of journalistic ethics.

PMID: 11597837 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[drguy22]

BUMP

I came across and article in Academic Medicine that directly answered the OP's question. I have posted the abstract and source below (the full article was way too long.

- H

Acad Med. 2001 Oct;76(10):985-92.

America's best medical schools: a critique of the U.S. News & World Report rankings.

McGaghie WC, Thompson JA.

Medical Education and Preventive Medicine, Northwestern University Medical School, Chicago, Illinois 60611-3008, USA.

Rankings of American medical schools published annually by the news magazine U.S. News & World Report are widely used to judge the quality of the schools and their programs. The authors describe and then critique the rankings on methodologic and conceptual grounds, arguing that the annual U.S. News medical school evaluation falls short in both areas. Three categories of program quality indicators different from those used by U.S. News are presented as alternative ways to judge medical schools. The authors conclude that the annual U.S. News & World Report rankings of American medical schools are ill-conceived; are unscientific; are conducted poorly; ignore medical school accreditation; judge medical school quality from a narrow, elitist perspective; and do not consider social and professional outcomes in program quality calculations. The medical school rankings have no practical value and fail to meet standards of journalistic ethics.

PMID: 11597837 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

👍 ...elitist persective....i have been sayin tat all along 🙂

 

[BigRedPingpong]

BUMP

Rankings of American medical schools published annually by the news magazine U.S. News & World Report are widely used to judge the quality of the schools and their programs. ]

Unfortunately, the pre-med Bible will still be the deciding factor for which medical school is the "best"--and, laypeople (your future patients) will also be consumers of non-scholarly, popular press. In a society where healthcare is moving rapidly to patient's rights/ patient's choice, get ready to start answering the question: So, where did you go to medical school?

 

[Acherona]

The reason to go to a top school, IMO, is not because of the prestige (I agree that the prestige factor will help you minimally at best career-wise, it's mostly about your personal accomplishments), but because of the quality of your peers. I'd rather surround myself with 38 MCAT people than 29 MCAT people for the next 4 years because I think it will be more interesting and help me excel. Just from interviewing, I was totally turned off by my state school because the students were boring and reminded me of the annoying pre-meds in my undergrad classes who were totally uncurious grade-obsessed invidividuals. It was clear that the students at the higher-ranked schools were more intelligent, articulate, etc. My potential friends/social sphere is going to be the biggest factor in whether or not I am "happy" at a school.

 

[RaistlinMajere]

I'd rather surround myself with 38 MCAT people than 29 MCAT people for the next 4 years because I think it will be more interesting and help me excel.

Interesting. I wouldn't choose the school for this reason, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[RoccoWJ]

Well I am at U Pitt. I don't know if you consider this a top school, but I honestly hope that you do not consider coming here. What you say is not only sterotypical and condesending - it is demeaning and indicitive of your true colors.

Intelligence can be measured on many scales and to say that people with a 29 MCAT compared to a 38 MCAT (I don't know of any school that averages this high) are more "intelligent, articulate, etc." is absoluely absurd, honestly you ought to be ashamed of typing such a comment.

Also, I dare you to find any school that does not have some gunners in the class - I know here at Pitt we have a few, but the majority of people in medical school seem to be pretty laid back and exctied about the prospect of helping others by making a difference.

Bottom line: If you want a top residency you will be grade focused, espically if you are at a state school, it does not however reflect an individual's personality. Finally, you need to step of off your soap box and wonder what people think of YOU. Perhaps I would like to be seen as boring, non-intelligent, non-articulate, etc. in your eyes in a effort to keep my distance from a belittling individual such as yourself.


P.S. - If you interview at a school with student interviewers I am sure they will catch on to who you really are.


Happy Holidays

 

[leechy]

Well I am at U Pitt. I don't know if you consider this a top school, but I honestly hope that you do not consider coming here. What you say is not only sterotypical and condesending - it is demeaning and indicitive of your true colors.

Intelligence can be measured on many scales and to say that people with a 29 MCAT compared to a 38 MCAT (I don't know of any school that averages this high) are more "intelligent, articulate, etc." is absoluely absurd, honestly you ought to be ashamed of typing such a comment.

Also, I dare you to find any school that does not have some gunners in the class - I know here at Pitt we have a few, but the majority of people in medical school seem to be pretty laid back and exctied about the prospect of helping others by making a difference.

Wow, I think you're being way too harsh here. Whether MCAT scores (or other standardized test scores) correlate with intelligence, knowledge of science, or anything else is open to debate, and I don't think people of either viewpoint are ridiculous or condescending. Also, technically, Acherona did not even draw an explicit correlation between the two - she just thought higher MCAT people would be more interesting to work with.

I'm also weighing the student body's personality heavily in my decision. In my personal experience, I've seen the ranking thing work both ways - I found some top-ranking schools to have boring gunnerish types, and other top-ranking schools had interesting students with lots of different interests. It depended on the school (and I don't want to name names 😉 ). Plus, my impression from one day probably isn't totally accurate.

 

[drguy22]

Wow, I think you're being way too harsh here. Whether MCAT scores (or other standardized test scores) correlate with intelligence, knowledge of science, or anything else is open to debate, and I don't think people of either viewpoint are ridiculous or condescending. Also, technically, Acherona did not even draw an explicit correlation between the two - she just thought higher MCAT people would be more interesting to work with.

I'm also weighing the student body's personality heavily in my decision. In my personal experience, I've seen the ranking thing work both ways - I found some top-ranking schools to have boring gunnerish types, and other top-ranking schools had interesting students with lots of different interests. It depended on the school (and I don't want to name names 😉 ). Plus, my impression from one day probably isn't totally accurate.

nah rocco is not being harsh...hes just putting stupid elitists in their rite place....

 

[Acherona]

Well I am at U Pitt. I don't know if you consider this a top school, but I honestly hope that you do not consider coming here. What you say is not only sterotypical and condesending - it is demeaning and indicitive of your true colors.

Intelligence can be measured on many scales and to say that people with a 29 MCAT compared to a 38 MCAT (I don't know of any school that averages this high) are more "intelligent, articulate, etc." is absoluely absurd, honestly you ought to be ashamed of typing such a comment.

Also, I dare you to find any school that does not have some gunners in the class - I know here at Pitt we have a few, but the majority of people in medical school seem to be pretty laid back and exctied about the prospect of helping others by making a difference.

Bottom line: If you want a top residency you will be grade focused, espically if you are at a state school, it does not however reflect an individual's personality. Finally, you need to step of off your soap box and wonder what people think of YOU. Perhaps I would like to be seen as boring, non-intelligent, non-articulate, etc. in your eyes in a effort to keep my distance from a belittling individual such as yourself.


P.S. - If you interview at a school with student interviewers I am sure they will catch on to who you really are.


Happy Holidays

wow dude I think you are in the wrong profession if you can see my "true colors" based on 5 lines, whatever those are. You should be the next madam Clio.

I never tried to make a correlation between MCAT and intelligence (though there is likely to be one). I was merely stating a personal preference and an observation based on the schools I had visited. Clearly I have no idea what the invididual students' scores were whom I met. I'd also like to point out that if you do have a high MCAT it probably indicates that it will be less effort for you to make the grade/score in med school, thereby giving you more time to develop yourself in other ways. In fact, top schools specifically seek out individuals with diverse backgrounds/interests for the purpose of having a non-boring class. I'm sure your school has lots of wonderful students devoted to "making a difference" -- I don't think I ever questioned that in my post. Anyway I would consider Pitt in the top tier since it ranks like #15. I'm talking more about e.g. George Washington U v. Columbia where you would start to see perceptible differences.

I'm not sure why you took my comments as a personal affront, they really weren't meant to be.

 

[flash]

"Anyway I would consider Pitt in the top tier since it ranks like #15"

sounds like an elitist to me. 🙄 Smile.

 

[doogyhowser]

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLA, BL, B.... *snoring*

some of these posters could get Ph.D.'s in "Med School Ranking" the way they m*sturbate the ranking criteria.

it's more interesting, and fun, to rank which schools are the crappiest.

 

[Acherona]

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLA, BL, B.... *snoring*

some of these posters could get Ph.D.'s in "Med School Ranking" the way they m*sturbate the ranking criteria.

it's more interesting, and fun, to rank which schools are the crappiest.

I'm still working on committing the rankings to memory. I've almost got the research list down and then will move to primary care. Need to keep the mind busy, ya know.

 

[doogyhowser]

I'm still working on committing the rankings to memory. I've almost got the research list down and then will move to primary care. Need to keep the mind busy, ya know.

 

[RoccoWJ]

wow dude I think you are in the wrong profession if you can see my "true colors" based on 5 lines, whatever those are. You should be the next madam Clio.

I never tried to make a correlation between MCAT and intelligence (though there is likely to be one). I was merely stating a personal preference and an observation based on the schools I had visited. Clearly I have no idea what the invididual students' scores were whom I met. I'd also like to point out that if you do have a high MCAT it probably indicates that it will be less effort for you to make the grade/score in med school, thereby giving you more time to develop yourself in other ways. In fact, top schools specifically seek out individuals with diverse backgrounds/interests for the purpose of having a non-boring class. I'm sure your school has lots of wonderful students devoted to "making a difference" -- I don't think I ever questioned that in my post. Anyway I would consider Pitt in the top tier since it ranks like #15. I'm talking more about e.g. George Washington U v. Columbia where you would start to see perceptible differences.

I'm not sure why you took my comments as a personal affront, they really weren't meant to be.

I have to apologize for being so judgemental. I can't understand why I thought your comments were so elitist. I mean if you were the person with the 29 MCAT I guess you would just accept the fact that you were less capable in several aspects when compared to someone with a 38 MCAT. The MCAT is a standardized examination and like any other exam it tests a select broad criteria, thereby testing a distinct type of intelligence. I doubt Johnny Cochran could do well on the MCAT, but I think any reasonable person would have to agree that he is a bright guy. Depending on the day, personal issues, and even test booklet, ones score can vary. Seldom do MCATS change drastically by test booklet, but it has been proven that other issues, such as family problems, sickness etc.. can influence ones score. For that very reason, I do not believe that people with a 38 MCAT are better than those with a 29. I know people here at Pitt who received 40+ MCATS and still work they butts off to do well; while others, myself included, who got below 35's do not work nearly as much and still pass the exams. I think it is absurd for an admissions committee to say: "Well Jon Doe here has an outstanding MCAT, therefore he will not have to study much and can possibly find the cure for cancer while he is here." ADCOM's (the one at Pitt for sure) look for WELL ROUNDED, ACCEPTING, DIVERSIFIED, ENGAGING individuals. Sure some people slip through the cracks, but i do not think that one can make the assumption that all boring people have lower MCATS....thats absurd. I know a guy with a 43 and he is the most laid back lazy person I know (he is a good friend, though).

I think you are the one who is acting like Mrs. Cleo, when you can make some sort of correlation between a hight MCAT and desire to help others, espically if your sample size is based on your observations at interviews.

Anyway, I apologize for offending any of your other US NEWS Junkee minions. I just hope that you realize that there are many aspects to the people you are interviewing with - not just MCAT.

Just because you got a high MCAT does not make you better, in any way, that anyone else. Keep telling yourself that it does and keep boosting your ego.

P.S. - I apologize for any spelling errors - probably an indicator of my low intelligence, right?

 

[Acherona]

I have to apologize for being so judgemental. I can't understand why I thought your comments were so elitist. I mean if you were the person with the 29 MCAT I guess you would just accept the fact that you were less capable in several aspects when compared to someone with a 38 MCAT. The MCAT is a standardized examination and like any other exam it tests a select broad criteria, thereby testing a distinct type of intelligence. I doubt Johnny Cochran could do well on the MCAT, but I think any reasonable person would have to agree that he is a bright guy. Depending on the day, personal issues, and even test booklet, ones score can vary. Seldom do MCATS change drastically by test booklet, but it has been proven that other issues, such as family problems, sickness etc.. can influence ones score. For that very reason, I do not believe that people with a 38 MCAT are better than those with a 29. I know people here at Pitt who received 40+ MCATS and still work they butts off to do well; while others, myself included, who got below 35's do not work nearly as much and still pass the exams. I think it is absurd for an admissions committee to say: "Well Jon Doe here has an outstanding MCAT, therefore he will not have to study much and can possibly find the cure for cancer while he is here." ADCOM's (the one at Pitt for sure) look for WELL ROUNDED, ACCEPTING, DIVERSIFIED, ENGAGING individuals. Sure some people slip through the cracks, but i do not think that one can make the assumption that all boring people have lower MCATS....thats absurd. I know a guy with a 43 and he is the most laid back lazy person I know (he is a good friend, though).

I think you are the one who is acting like Mrs. Cleo, when you can make some sort of correlation between a hight MCAT and desire to help others, espically if your sample size is based on your observations at interviews.

Anyway, I apologize for offending any of your other US NEWS Junkee minions. I just hope that you realize that there are many aspects to the people you are interviewing with - not just MCAT.

Just because you got a high MCAT does not make you better, in any way, that anyone else. Keep telling yourself that it does and keep boosting your ego.

P.S. - I apologize for any spelling errors - probably an indicator of my low intelligence, right?

Can you please stop oversimplifying my comments. I never said people with a 38 are "better". I never said that all people with low MCATs are boring. Please. There may very well be a correlation between MCAT score and range of interests but I wouldn't try to make that claim without any evidence -- as I said my comments were based on a very unscientific feeling I got from visiting schools. I will say that it is my belief that it is very difficult to "fake" a high score. That is, I would say that almost all people with extremely high MCAT's are very intelligent (and yes, we are talking about a very speicific type of intelligence), whereas people with low scores may or may not be, because, as you said, other factors are very important in scoring well. If you want to call that an "elitist" view, that's fine, I'm not one to argue over semantics.

I also think it's funny that you assume I have a high score. In fact I have an OK score which is why I am thinking about the drawbacks of going to a less competitive school. I am dumb by my own definition so there goes your theory of ego boosting.

 

[RoccoWJ]

"I never said people with a 38 are "better". I never said that all people with low MCATs are boring."

"I'd rather surround myself with 38 MCAT people than 29 MCAT people for the next 4 years because I think it will be more interesting and help me excel. Just from interviewing, I was totally turned off by my state school because the students were boring and reminded me of the annoying pre-meds in my undergrad classes who were totally uncurious grade-obsessed invidividuals. It was clear that the students at the higher-ranked schools were more intelligent, articulate, etc. My potential friends/social sphere is going to be the biggest factor in whether or not I am "happy" at a school."

Are you related to John Kerry?

From the above quote, by yourself - I still cannot see how you did not make a link between MCAT score ; State/Private School ; and individuals at those types of instiutions.

Perhaps you should put different ideas in different paragraphs - cause the link seems to be there..... maybe i am just poor at verbal reasoning.

Also, the reason I continue to critique your posts is because you have now told me that I am "in the wrong profession." Hmmm....so now you assume that I will be a less-than-ideal doctor: Thanks.

To your last reply:

I am just going to hold my response to breif one line answers in an effort not to oversimplify any of your deeply intellectual commentary:

"Can you please stop oversimplifying my comments."
Oversimplyfing? - just commenting on what you typed.

"In fact I have an OK score"
Define mediocre (assuming mediocre is compatable with OK) - my money is on mediocre being higher than a 32....

"I am dumb by my own definition so there goes your theory of ego boosting."
No pity from me.
They are your standards, not mine.


One more question - if you are dumb, then what about the people with scores lower than yours? What do you consider them "by your own definintion?"

Just don't be one of those 32+ people that whines about their score. Once you have the score, its time to razzle dazzle the interviewers. A 32+ can get you in just about anywhere - you met the MCAT protocol - just show em' who you really are!

Happy Holidays

Rocco

P.S. - I attempted to end the reply on a positive note.

 

[Childe]

Regardless of MCAT scores, (which some people here seem rather over-sensitive about) the higher ranked programs are going to have those WELL ROUNDED, ACCEPTING, DIVERSIFIED, ENGAGING individuals, since they have the most applicants and can choose based on multiple factors. Whether those schools actually deserve or attract those 'better' applicants, for any reason other than the somewhat arbitrary rankings, is up for debate, however.

 

[Mahi]

Pre med students are accustomed to thinking theres some set algorithm that will guarantee them success for the rest of their lives. Good grades, good SAT, good MCATs, good grades, good ECs, and the list goes on....This is why we get a bad rap by other students. Dont forget we are people in this process...do what feels right. If you feel, given your future goals, Harvard will take you where you want to go and be completely happy there, go there. If you think Texas Tech would be better for you, go there. Ultimately though, I think everyones aim is to treat their patients to the best of their ability. I think people tend to forget this and get lost in these dumb X, Y, Z will get us the BEST residencies, blah blah arguments. If anyone works hard, is sincere in their motives, they will get where they want to go. I wish this on everyone, and I hope one day these dumb argument threads will end (although not likely). But anyway, gluck everyone!

 

[QofQuimica]

If the rest of you (or at least some of the rest of you!) are amenable, I'd like to turn the conversation a little bit. What do you consider to be the appropriate way to use these ranking lists, if any?

I think that it is important not to lose sight of what your ultimate goal is when considering how to utilize ranking lists like USN&WR. The lists can be used to guide you in terms of helping you find the schools that are most likely to fit in with your goals and interests. But you still have to do the research on each school to figure out which one will be the best fit for you as an individual. Since I want to do research, the research list is useful to me because it gives me some idea about which schools focus more heavily on research. Schools that do not appear in, say, the top fifty of this list, are less likely to fit the needs of people who want to do research. Since there is also a separate primary care list, people who want to go clinical can use that list analogously.

Interestingly, some of the schools overlap from the two USN&WR lists, but most do not, which suggests to me that my use of the lists is appropriate. The medical schools have strengths in different areas, such that a person interested in primary care would have a completely different list of top-ten schools compared with a person interested in research, with the exception of U. Washington and UCSF. Harvard and Johns Hopkins, which are at the top of the research list, rank down in the 40s on the primary care list. No osteopathic schools are on the research list, but I see at least two on the primary care list.

So which school is the "best"? There is no objective answer to that which would apply in all cases for all people. Lists like USN&WR can only point you in the right direction if you have a specific goal in mind.

 

[MWillie]

If the rest of you (or at least some of the rest of you!) are amenable, I'd like to turn the conversation a little bit. What do you consider to be the appropriate way to use these ranking lists, if any?

I think that it is important not to lose sight of what your ultimate goal is when considering how to utilize ranking lists like USN&WR. The lists can be used to guide you in terms of helping you find the schools that are most likely to fit in with your goals and interests. But you still have to do the research on each school to figure out which one will be the best fit for you as an individual. Since I want to do research, the research list is useful to me because it gives me some idea about which schools focus more heavily on research. Schools that do not appear in, say, the top fifty of this list, are less likely to fit the needs of people who want to do research. Since there is also a separate primary care list, people who want to go clinical can use that list analogously.

Interestingly, some of the schools overlap from the two USN&WR lists, but most do not, which suggests to me that my use of the lists is appropriate. The medical schools have strengths in different areas, such that a person interested in primary care would have a completely different list of top-ten schools compared with a person interested in research, with the exception of U. Washington and UCSF. Harvard and Johns Hopkins, which are at the top of the research list, rank down in the 40s on the primary care list. No osteopathic schools are on the research list, but I see at least two on the primary care list.

So which school is the "best"? There is no objective answer to that which would apply in all cases for all people. Lists like USN&WR can only point you in the right direction if you have a specific goal in mind.

And if the goal is to go to the most prestigious medical school you can, what rankings would you look at?

 

[QofQuimica]

And if the goal is to go to the most prestigious medical school you can, what rankings would you look at?

Well, I'll start this with the caveat that I don't agree with having "prestige" as the goal for picking medical schools. But hypothetically speaking, in that case I'd go for name recognition, which means the Ivy League: Harvard, Yale, Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, and U. Penn. (Princeton doesn't have a med school, right?) Those are all schools that sound "prestigious", and most of them also show high up there on the research list. But going by Ivy prestige sure precludes a lot of other good research schools, like Wash. U. or Mayo or Stanford.

 

[exmike]

Well, I'll start this with the caveat that I don't agree with having "prestige" as the goal for picking medical schools. But hypothetically speaking, in that case I'd go for name recognition, which means the Ivy League: Harvard, Yale, Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, and U. Penn. (Princeton doesn't have a med school, right?) Those are all schools that sound "prestigious", and most of them also show high up there on the research list. But going by Ivy prestige sure precludes a lot of other good research schools, like Wash. U. or Mayo or Stanford.

And ivy doesn't equal research. Brown and Dartmouth arent exactly research powerhouses.

 

[RoccoWJ]

Hey guys and gals,

sorry for being so harsh recently

When you pick a school, you really have to pick a school that you feel that you will fit in best. That is one of the purposes of the interview: for you to find what schoo is best for you and also for the school to decide whether you are right for it....when you both agree- heaven!

Just beware about picking a school based on prestigue - you may end up somewhere you hate for four years!

Rocco

P.S. - I love Pitt