[deleted]

[RosesAreRedVeinsAreBlue]

Overall, I have two good options for career paths and I need some doctor wisdom to help me make this decision. I understand they are vastly different and I feel like this has made the decision counterintuitively more difficult

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[Sunny Waffles]

Idk, it’s really up to you to be honest. Do you have some shadowing experience or other clinical experience that solidified your interest in medicine? Because when I read your post, your interests in medicine seem to stem from your analytical interests from Chemistry and not really the workstyle or the patient interaction itself.So it gives me the inkling that a PhD might be a better route for you.

 

[chilly_md]

Thread moved.

Enjoying your chemistry classes is not very indicative of whether you would enjoy being a physician. If you predominantly shadowed, that doesn’t say much about whether you will be ok with interacting with sick patients. I would not make the mistake of assuming you can adapt and enjoy every job. If that were true, then there would be no reason to leave your finance career.

 

[4pf]

This is actually a very interesting decision to make. I do not know enough about finance to truly weigh in, but I wish you the best of luck in deciding. Keep us posted

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

It sounds like finances are at the top of your priority list (nothing wrong with that, just an observation). Your current position is likely the wiser decision in this case, although I question how your limited experience in the business world is going to impact career growth… will your BBA holding peers hold a significant advantage over you?

My other point would be that I’ve heard from many physicians not to do medicine unless you can’t imagine being happy doing anything else. This doesn’t seem to be the case for you. It seems like you love the idea of medicine but aren’t fully committed to it.. big risk to take seeing the amount of sacrifice that will be demanded of you.

 

[CatDad26]

I definitely understand why this is a tough decision. I spent my gap years in small Biotech and managed to work my way up to Scientist level making 120-150k before being admitted to medical school. So many people, even family, nudged me to not go to medical school and continue on the path of Biotech/Pharma as I reached a highly lucrative level with room for growth.

But...

I truly cannot see myself sitting behind a desk any longer and not being in medicine. It's been an absolute no brainer decision. And tbh, even medicine was only going to pay me 80k a year forever, I'd still pick that route.

If it's not a super easy decision for you, then don't waste 7-12 more years of your life pursuing medicine in my opinion.

 

[Inbutanxious]

Hi! I was wondering do you have a habit of journaling? Maybe you can look back or recall your original feelings of wanting to pursue medicine. You mentioned you loved medicine in the past, but the finance opportunity is wavering your decision. If you truly want to explore the JP Morgan position and are okay with either delaying your medical education a few more years, maybe you can try finance and see if you will like that more than medicine. I would agree that the environment can affect a lot of how you feel. Maybe try to go back into the clinical settings a few times to see how you feel about it. I think regardless of finance or medicine, you may still run into the risk of being "bored" with the industry. It may be easier to get out of finances versus medicine (long training process), but I would pick the one you can see more growth opportunities. Then hopefully in the future, you will always find new things to learn about.

There isn't anything wrong with picking one over the other. They are just different life paths. I wish you luck with whatever you ultimately decide!

 

[RosesAreRedVeinsAreBlue]

Hi! I was wondering do you have a habit of journaling? Maybe you can look back or recall your original feelings of wanting to pursue medicine. You mentioned you loved medicine in the past, but the finance opportunity is wavering your decision. If you truly want to explore the JP Morgan position and are okay with either delaying your medical education a few more years, maybe you can try finance and see if you will like that more than medicine. I would agree that the environment can affect a lot of how you feel. Maybe try to go back into the clinical settings a few times to see how you feel about it. I think regardless of finance or medicine, you may still run into the risk of being "bored" with the industry. It may be easier to get out of finances versus medicine (long training process), but I would pick the one you can see more growth opportunities. Then hopefully in the future, you will always find new things to learn about.

There isn't anything wrong with picking one over the other. They are just different life paths. I wish you luck with whatever you ultimately decide!

That's a good idea! I do have some journals from when I was shadowing and doing clinical stuff. Also, I do think I am going to try to get in a bit of shadowing before making my decision and see how I adapt to the environment again -- Thanks for your reply!

 

[chilly_md]

That's a good idea! I do have some journals from when I was shadowing and doing clinical stuff. Also, I do think I am going to try to get in a bit of shadowing before making my decision and see how I adapt to the environment again -- Thanks for your reply!

Shadowing isn't the most indicative of the environment since you are not expected to interact with the patients in that context. That is why schools expect students to have clinical experience even if it is as a volunteer transporting patients as that is when you get to talk with sick people instead of relying on a physician handling everything.

 

[chilly_md]

I've also volunteered over 120 hours transporting patients so I understand being around sick patients. Additionally, I did rounds with my research physician with his cancer patients (who we were researching cures for) and was a scribe. I was also a Spanish interpreter at my local hospital, translating between patients and the physician -- so I have a lot of patient experience. But given the time sensitivity of this decision, I am thankful for any experiences I can have.

Then it sounds like you had a broad range beyond just the Cleveland Clinic internship, it was just a while ago. That shouldn’t be a problem.

You had few cons surprisingly for sticking with your job. One of which is location, but you could leave for Florida since it seems like you could do different paths beyond banking. I imagine there are many companies in Tampa or another Florida city.

 

[housestaffhustle]

A few comments for each pathway...

Finding a purpose:

• I will say that not every day in medicine is enjoyable and the road is long (very long), but you do go in every day feeling as though you have a purpose. Even on your worst/busiest days, you can say without a doubt that you've helped make at least one person's life a little better/easier. Sometimes that makes it all worth it.
• I'm not sure the same can be said for every job in finance. The work, I'm sure, is interesting and can be lucrative, but trying to connect it back to a sense of purpose can be challenging, especially if you are not working for yourself/your group, but rather for a larger corporation.

Escaping the mundane:

• Work will always on some level be mundane. A career in medicine guarantees that it will at least never be boring. Standard 9 to 5 days and lunch breaks will be hard (if not impossible) to come by and you'll be sad/happy/frustrated/angry (sometimes all in the same moment), but for better or worse, I promise you each day will be different and you'll have stories to tell.
• Not all finance jobs (I realize it's a big field) require you to sit at a desk, develop spreadsheets/powerpoints, and attend endless meetings, but my impression is that a lot of them do. I would love the comfort of predictability and the comfort of an office (without yelling/screaming/beeping alarms), but I think it's human nature to find boredom in the repetitive. Though it's hard for me to see it every day, perhaps the comforts of an office job are overrated.

Finances:

• If you choose medicine be prepared to feel grossly under-payed compared to your peers and in general compared to the effort you put into your work. Also be prepared on most days to not be thanked for your diligence. The days I receive genuine appreciation (the better days) are rare (though this may just be in training). Even as an attending, depending on your chosen specialty, you may be making less annually than a recent college graduate in software engineering. And even if you are well payed, I guarantee you will be doing extra labor/teaching/counseling that you are not being compensated for. On a good day most of us will tell you it's worth it. Don't ask us on a bad day.
• My friends in finance make a lot of money and they're happy about it, but you know what, they're never satisfied. They make 2-3x what I do, but they always want more.
• On this point, I think it's a wash. Neither pathway will leave you fully satisfied with your income.

A few things to know before choosing medicine...

What they don't tell you:

• During your shadowing experiences and even through clinical rotations in medical school, most of your direct superiors will likely unconsciously shield you from the real/uncomfortable daily challenges of medicine (hospital drama/politics, difficult patients/families).
• Quickly after starting residency you will likely find it challenging to maintain the compassion that brought you to medicine in the first place. When people are sick they are not and should not be expected to be at their best, but sometimes people just suck and you'll be expected to maintain your composure no matter what they throw at you (sometimes literally).
• Burnout is real and you won't know it till it's staring you in the face. Recovering from it isn't easy, but if you're faced with it, you have to believe it's possible, or you'll need to find a support system that does.

Hope that wasn't too sobering. If that wasn't enough to scare you away, then I think you're ready for a career in medicine. Good luck and kick ass! We need more doctors dedicated to making this world a better place for our patients and our profession.

 

[RosesAreRedVeinsAreBlue]

A few comments for each pathway...

Finding a purpose:

• I will say that not every day in medicine is enjoyable and the road is long (very long), but you do go in every day feeling as though you have a purpose. Even on your worst/busiest days, you can say without a doubt that you've helped make at least one person's life a little better/easier. Sometimes that makes it all worth it.
• I'm not sure the same can be said for every job in finance. The work, I'm sure, is interesting and can be lucrative, but trying to connect it back to a sense of purpose can be challenging, especially if you are not working for yourself/your group, but rather for a larger corporation.

Escaping the mundane:

• Work will always on some level be mundane. A career in medicine guarantees that it will at least never be boring. Standard 9 to 5 days and lunch breaks will be hard (if not impossible) to come by and you'll be sad/happy/frustrated/angry (sometimes all in the same moment), but for better or worse, I promise you each day will be different and you'll have stories to tell.
• Not all finance jobs (I realize it's a big field) require you to sit at a desk, develop spreadsheets/powerpoints, and attend endless meetings, but my impression is that a lot of them do. I would love the comfort of predictability and the comfort of an office (without yelling/screaming/beeping alarms), but I think it's human nature to find boredom in the repetitive. Though it's hard for me to see it every day, perhaps the comforts of an office job are overrated.

Finances:

• If you choose medicine be prepared to feel grossly under-payed compared to your peers and in general compared to the effort you put into your work. Also be prepared on most days to not be thanked for your diligence. The days I receive genuine appreciation (the better days) are rare (though this may just be in training). Even as an attending, depending on your chosen specialty, you may be making less annually than a recent college graduate in software engineering. And even if you are well payed, I guarantee you will be doing extra labor/teaching/counseling that you are not being compensated for. On a good day most of us will tell you it's worth it. Don't ask us on a bad day.
• My friends in finance make a lot of money and they're happy about it, but you know what, they're never satisfied. They make 2-3x what I do, but they always want more.
• On this point, I think it's a wash. Neither pathway will leave you fully satisfied with your income.

A few things to know before choosing medicine...

What they don't tell you:

• During your shadowing experiences and even through clinical rotations in medical school, most of your direct superiors will likely unconsciously shield you from the real/uncomfortable daily challenges of medicine (hospital drama/politics, difficult patients/families).
• Quickly after starting residency you will likely find it challenging to maintain the compassion that brought you to medicine in the first place. When people are sick they are not and should not be expected to be at their best, but sometimes people just suck and you'll be expected to maintain your composure no matter what they throw at you (sometimes literally).
• Burnout is real and you won't know it till it's staring you in the face. Recovering from it isn't easy, but if you're faced with it, you have to believe it's possible, or you'll need to find a support system that does.

Hope that wasn't too sobering. If that wasn't enough to scare you away, then I think you're ready for a career in medicine. Good luck and kick ass! We need more doctors dedicated to making this world a better place for our patients and our profession.

Wow! Thank you so much for this reply. It is extremely inspiring and exactly what I needed to hear!

 

[happypuppy]

I have a background in NYC finance/ IB/big law. One thing to consider that I think often gets overlooked, especially for younger recruits with less experience outside of college before entering these industries is that your experience as a summer associate is qualitatively different than your experience as an employee. During a summer internship, you are being recruited. Coming from a STEM background and a top undergrad, you are the prize to be wooed. The company is giving you the best possible version of themselves for 8-10 weeks. In other words, it is supposed to be "fun" in ways that your actual job is not. Once you're an employee, the job is about productivity and results. Most people in finance and banking burn out within a few years, especially in markets like NYC, where the competition is extreme, the system is "up or out," and every year there is a new batch of fresh faced recruits there to take your place. The vast majority of people who go into these jobs move out of them, into MBA programs, law school (another place to proceed with caution), or other more niche roles or in less soul crushing markets. You can find someone to tell you a rosier story about working in finance and that its fulfilling on some level, I'm sure. But the reality is that the industry is about money, and that's it. If you are someone who finds energy in connecting with others and having a sense of purpose, I think you will struggle after the novelty of finance wears off. You are choosing between two very different paths. You can always re-choose later like I did, but the course correction will be longer and less straightforward, and it will demand more individual steadfastness/ resolve to persist on the path toward medicine.

 

[RosesAreRedVeinsAreBlue]

I have a background in NYC finance/ IB/big law. One thing to consider that I think often gets overlooked, especially for younger recruits with less experience outside of college before entering these industries is that your experience as a summer associate is qualitatively different than your experience as an employee. During a summer internship, you are being recruited. Coming from a STEM background and a top undergrad, you are the prize to be wooed. The company is giving you the best possible version of themselves for 8-10 weeks. In other words, it is supposed to be "fun" in ways that your actual job is not. Once you're an employee, the job is about productivity and results. Most people in finance and banking burn out within a few years, especially in markets like NYC, where the competition is extreme, the system is "up or out," and every year there is a new batch of fresh faced recruits there to take your place. The vast majority of people who go into these jobs move out of them, into MBA programs, law school (another place to proceed with caution), or other more niche roles or in less soul crushing markets. You can find someone to tell you a rosier story about working in finance and that its fulfilling on some level, I'm sure. But the reality is that the industry is about money, and that's it. If you are someone who finds energy in connecting with others and having a sense of purpose, I think you will struggle after the novelty of finance wears off. You are choosing between two very different paths. You can always re-choose later like I did, but the course correction will be longer and less straightforward, and it will demand more individual steadfastness/ resolve to persist on the path toward medicine.

Thanks for your perspective! This was very helpful. You are totally right about the wooing phase, and I agree it is important to keep that in consideration!

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Go to med school. If you hate it, call JPM and you will get that job. I worked in law and finance before medicine.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Go to med school. If you hate it, call JPM and you will get that job. I worked in law and finance before medicine.

On top of that, almost everyone in finance hates it even when they make a lot of money.

 

[RosesAreRedVeinsAreBlue]

On top of that, almost everyone in finance hates it even when they make a lot of money.

Thanks for your advice! I really appreciate hearing from physicians who have had experience in both professions! I have decided to attend medical school, and I am very excited for the future. When considering longterm goals, I can see clearly now that medicine will be much more fulfilling and that the short-term suffering will be worth the long-term rewards

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Corporate finance has limited upside compared to the “front office” positions and will usually make less than a doctor with more risk.

If it was IBD, S&T, or Equity Research then it could be worth considering. These make enough usually to live comfortably (relatively) in NYC and have high upside.

Physicians or corporate finance people generally don’t make enough to live good lives on New York City unless they have income from investments or whatever.

 

[deleted936268]

I have a background in NYC finance/ IB/big law. One thing to consider that I think often gets overlooked, especially for younger recruits with less experience outside of college before entering these industries is that your experience as a summer associate is qualitatively different than your experience as an employee. During a summer internship, you are being recruited. Coming from a STEM background and a top undergrad, you are the prize to be wooed. The company is giving you the best possible version of themselves for 8-10 weeks. In other words, it is supposed to be "fun" in ways that your actual job is not. Once you're an employee, the job is about productivity and results. Most people in finance and banking burn out within a few years, especially in markets like NYC, where the competition is extreme, the system is "up or out," and every year there is a new batch of fresh faced recruits there to take your place. The vast majority of people who go into these jobs move out of them, into MBA programs, law school (another place to proceed with caution), or other more niche roles or in less soul crushing markets. You can find someone to tell you a rosier story about working in finance and that its fulfilling on some level, I'm sure. But the reality is that the industry is about money, and that's it. If you are someone who finds energy in connecting with others and having a sense of purpose, I think you will struggle after the novelty of finance wears off. You are choosing between two very different paths. You can always re-choose later like I did, but the course correction will be longer and less straightforward, and it will demand more individual steadfastness/ resolve to persist on the path toward medicine.

Why are law schools another place to proceed with caution? Just curious. Also @srirachamayonnaise since you have xp.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Why are law schools another place to proceed with caution? Just curious. Also @srirachamayonnaise since you have xp.

big law crushes your soul really quickly.

 

[deleted936268]

big law crushes your soul really quickly.

How does T14 law compare to T10-20 medicine in terms of salary and lifestyle? Did some work at Capitol Hill recently and all the interns/younger people look like they're in the same gunner blender as us but mirrored.

 

[Goro]

Hello! I am in need of some serious help making this life decision. I have always been intrigued with medicine. I love it for the complexities and problem-solving that go with it. I was a chemistry major (love it!) at a HYP school. I loved chemistry for the same reason I think I would love medicine: curiosity, problem-solving, on my feet/not sitting at a cubicle. However, summer after my junior year, I completed an internship at JP Morgan Chase in NYC doing corporate finance. The internship was fun in the way I was problem-solving in a great, collaborative environment. However, I was filling out medical school applications while working and always considered JPM as a fall back to medicine. At the end of the summer, I was offered a full-time position making good money in their Manhattan office. Fast forward through the majority of senior year, I hadn't been accepted anywhere and got comfortable with the idea of working a corporate job in the city. However, I was just accepted off the waitlist to medical school and now I don't know what to do. The medical school is in my hometown so I would be closer to home, which would be nice (and thinking in the future I would have eventually liked to move back home anyway). I know I have loved medicine in the past, but I have been imagining my life as an analyst in the city the last few months and am confused on what decision to make. Many people have told me if I could envision my life doing anything else other than being a doctor, to not go to medical school; however, I don't think this is fair for me as I am very adaptable and think I can "job craft" to make anything I do enjoyable.

Edit: Although I enjoyed my chemistry classes, I just want to make it also clear that I also enjoyed many of my pre-med classes and biology classes. Just finished up taking a case-based Pathobiology class that was taught by medical professors and solving the case was extremely interesting to me. I was also able to watch an autopsy (from the table side) and I was intrigued by that experience as well. Additionally, most of my chemistry research pertained to pharmacology and medical-related interventions.

2nd Edit: Thank you everyone for your responses and your advice! I really appreciate it and have decided to pursue medicine. I am really excited to start in July!

Medical School
Pros

• Back home in home state, nice city
• If I were to practice, I would like to be in home state
• I really enjoy science
• I enjoy the thought of making a daily difference in my work and helping patients
• Have worked for this goal for a long time
• I could see myself happy as a physician
• Debt won't be bad because my parents have offered to help with tuition
• I did intense shadowing the summer after my freshman year of college and loved being in the hospital, it was invigorating

Cons

• High stress in school
• Lack of income during training
• Low pay as a resident
• Concerned about prospects of having a family as a physician
• Concerns about if the stress/reward ratio is worth it
• Heard stories of how the medical field is changing for the worse
• Haven't been in a health care setting in a couple years due to COVID and I wonder if I will still love it just as much as I did previously

JP Morgan Chase
Pros

• Good pay
• Stable job for the next few years
• Ability to start saving and building a 401k
• Allows me some flexibility with my career path (could stay in finance, pivot to corporate America, go to law school, etc.)
• Great benefits of working for a major company
• I have always been interested in business/entrepreneurship
• I am an extrovert and I really loved the office setting and working with my team to achieve success during my internship

Cons

• Not entirely "in love" with finance; I was a chemistry major and I like chemistry not Econ
• Prospect of getting bored with my life in a few years?
• Although Manhattan is cool, could see myself hating the subway a few weeks in

Summary: Overall, I have two good options for career paths and I need some doctor wisdom to help me make this decision. I understand they are vastly different and I feel like this has made the decision counterintuitively more difficult

What does your heart tell you to do?

 

[Select All That Apply]

We did it boys. Locked in another one. Solving the systemic physician shortage issue one body at a time.

 

[Kuratz]

I’d suggest taking the Finance job. Work hard for at least a few years to see if you like it and then re-assess to see what doors open for you. Be smart with the money you make. I know plenty of IB-type young adults that have made more than enough money to be financially secure if they don’t fall into the lifestyle trap. Build a little nest egg and then even if you decide to do something else you are in a great spot and can mitigate any loans. I envy the lives of other peer young professionals who have been making great money, travelling, buying houses, saving for retirement etc. It’s not all about money but that freedom and security is a huge deal and Medicine has lost tons of ground to other fields in that regard. In the past the “intrinsic fulfillment/humanitarian” aspect could make up for some negatives but nowadays physicians are cogs in the machine and wield little autonomy. It’s just frankly not that great of a job for most. It’s stressful with long hours and little thanks. At that rate may as well just grind out in banking for a decade and the soft land into something else. Medicine isn’t going anywhere if it draws you back. But trust me it’s not this idealised, super-fulfilling job it’s sometimes portrayed as.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

You won’t be able to build a “nest egg” working corporate finance in the city unless you have like 4 roommates.

Corporate finance =/= investment banking

Corporate finance, commercial banking, etc. won’t be getting the 50k bonuses right out of school. HF/PE/VC exit opportunities would be limited if not non-existent

This is of course assuming that the OP will actually be working in corporate finance as opposed to banking. Sometimes it’s easier to just write “corporate finance” when posting on a non-finance forum