Medical School - Worth it IF not 100% passionate about it ?

[TurbulentWind]

Hello, Everyone ! I want to thank you in advance for reading my post and I will offer you respect, so please if you have any good advice for me, share it ! 🙂I will be very thankful. Be as honest as possible - I didn't come here to read comforting words, speak your mind !

Firstly, I'd like to write the story behind my choice to join Medical school : in high school I was indecisive about what I want to be, so I have chosen different paths than Medicine. After I realized that those paths aren't the ones I want to build my future on, I decided to start Med school.
Although it wasn't my first choice, when it came down to it, my intention was truly sincere about it : I really wanted to offer my time and my energy to this field. Even more, I always had a dream to contribute with something meaningful to humanity, and I've chosen to help people by becoming a Psychiatrist - not another Pill Doctor, but a truly great and impressive Psychiatrist, who helps millions of people to achieve and nurture something that is so often lost nowadays : mental health.

Lately though, I've started to question my life philosophy. I don't know if I made the right choice by coming here, because I was willing to sacrifice my time and energy in a reasonable way, but this feels more like a self-destructive journey where the damage outweighs the achievements : sleep deprivation, high cortisol and adrenaline levels all the time, difficulty maintaining good training & nutritional habits, etc.

Aside from the lifestyle factors, I also hit a will with the educational system all the time. I know, the educational system is an old story, but I've been hearing a lot that certain personality types will simply never fit into the system and I realize now that I should have listened to that warning, because I've never felt more intense antisocial impulses than since I started Med school. This is the part where most people are like " Just get used to it " , but I don't want to become another sick, tired, indoctrinated doctor, who has to change his whole life just to fit in the system - even if this would make me complete Med school, it would completely change who I am at the core and wouldn't make the whole process worth it.

The funny and ironic part is this : as I've stated before, my goal was to be an expert in mental health, yet it's exactly mental health that I'm starting to struggle with. Sure, I've rarely seen a doctor actually who is fit, fresh and healthy physically and mentally also, but I thought it's just their way of being. Now I see that sooner or later almost everyone becomes like that, because the system is designed like that.

On the other hand, I've invested so much in the idea of doing this, that I don't want to let it go, although I feel that I'll always be on a slippery slope if I continue this : there's always going to be this skepticism of whether this is the right path to go and this constant sensation of alienation toward the medical field and their methods of teaching and their methods of testing.

I'm going to end this here and I'll answer to further questions if someone has any, because I think it's a long post anyway.
Have a Great Day !

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[Jordan95]

Your question has no merit as only you can decide if what you're doing is worth it. With that being said I see one huge red flag - "it wasn't my first choice." It seems to me like you're chasing a fantasy and aren't happy with the realities.




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[cbrons]

Hello, Everyone ! I want to thank you in advance for reading my post and I will offer you respect, so please if you have any good advice for me, share it ! 🙂I will be very thankful. Be as honest as possible - I didn't come here to read comforting words, speak your mind !

Firstly, I'd like to write the story behind my choice to join Medical school : in high school I was indecisive about what I want to be, so I have chosen different paths than Medicine. After I realized that those paths aren't the ones I want to build my future on, I decided to start Med school.
Although it wasn't my first choice, when it came down to it, my intention was truly sincere about it : I really wanted to offer my time and my energy to this field. Even more, I always had a dream to contribute with something meaningful to humanity, and I've chosen to help people by becoming a Psychiatrist - not another Pill Doctor, but a truly great and impressive Psychiatrist, who helps millions of people to achieve and nurture something that is so often lost nowadays : mental health.

Lately though, I've started to question my life philosophy. I don't know if I made the right choice by coming here, because I was willing to sacrifice my time and energy in a reasonable way, but this feels more like a self-destructive journey where the damage outweighs the achievements : sleep deprivation, high cortisol and adrenaline levels all the time, difficulty maintaining good training & nutritional habits, etc.

Aside from the lifestyle factors, I also hit a will with the educational system all the time. I know, the educational system is an old story, but I've been hearing a lot that certain personality types will simply never fit into the system and I realize now that I should have listened to that warning, because I've never felt more intense antisocial impulses than since I started Med school. This is the part where most people are like " Just get used to it " , but I don't want to become another sick, tired, indoctrinated doctor, who has to change his whole life just to fit in the system - even if this would make me complete Med school, it would completely change who I am at the core and wouldn't make the whole process worth it.

The funny and ironic part is this : as I've stated before, my goal was to be an expert in mental health, yet it's exactly mental health that I'm starting to struggle with. Sure, I've rarely seen a doctor actually who is fit, fresh and healthy physically and mentally also, but I thought it's just their way of being. Now I see that sooner or later almost everyone becomes like that, because the system is designed like that.

On the other hand, I've invested so much in the idea of doing this, that I don't want to let it go, although I feel that I'll always be on a slippery slope if I continue this : there's always going to be this skepticism of whether this is the right path to go and this constant sensation of alienation toward the medical field and their methods of teaching and their methods of testing.

I'm going to end this here and I'll answer to further questions if someone has any, because I think it's a long post anyway.
Have a Great Day !

Please tell us more about your life story - age molars came on, first kiss, favorite ice cream, etc.. Just give us all the facts we here at the pre-allopathic forum need to guide you.

Sent from my SM-N910P using SDN mobile

 

[Stagg737]

A few things need to be addressed separately here, so I'll try and go step by step.

Firstly, I'd like to write the story behind my choice to join Medical school : in high school I was indecisive about what I want to be, so I have chosen different paths than Medicine. After I realized that those paths aren't the ones I want to build my future on, I decided to start Med school.
Although it wasn't my first choice, when it came down to it, my intention was truly sincere about it : I really wanted to offer my time and my energy to this field. Even more, I always had a dream to contribute with something meaningful to humanity, and I've chosen to help people by becoming a Psychiatrist - not another Pill Doctor, but a truly great and impressive Psychiatrist, who helps millions of people to achieve and nurture something that is so often lost nowadays : mental health.

Med school not being your first choice or your "true" passion doesn't mean you can't be happy doing it or that you won't be successful. You do need to have some sense that it's what you want to do though, and be willing to make a lot of sacrifices in the pursuit of this career. To the bolded, that's an incredibly naive perspective to have going into medicine for a few reasons. Just because some psychiatrists prescribe a lot of meds doesn't mean they're not necessary. Do a psych rotation and you'll understand how life-changing a prescription can be for some patients. Also, the idea that helping millions of people nurture their mental health is an extremely lofty and something that could be better accomplished as a motivational speaker than a physician.

Aside from the lifestyle factors, I also hit a will with the educational system all the time. I know, the educational system is an old story, but I've been hearing a lot that certain personality types will simply never fit into the system and I realize now that I should have listened to that warning, because I've never felt more intense antisocial impulses than since I started Med school. This is the part where most people are like " Just get used to it " , but I don't want to become another sick, tired, indoctrinated doctor, who has to change his whole life just to fit in the system - even if this would make me complete Med school, it would completely change who I am at the core and wouldn't make the whole process worth it.

Now I see that sooner or later almost everyone becomes like that, because the system is designed like that.

The only personality types who "can never fit it" are the ones who are so rigid and unreasonable that they can't fit in with anywhere or are set off by the smallest amount of stress. This will vary from school to school, but I think most people are perfectly capable of fitting in. Those who don't usually isolate themselves for whatever reason. Everyone gets stressed out and tired at some point. It's a system designed to weed out those who aren't absolutely committed and those who can't handle delayed gratification. That doesn't mean you have to let it change you though. It'll force you to grow up and see medicine and healthcare in the U.S. for what it really is, but you can still try and accomplish your goals. Reaching millions may not be realistic, but you can definitely try and set up community outreach. If you do it in a major city you could reach a significant number of people. Letting yourself change or become jaded is within your control, though this profession definitely makes it harder to avoid that than others.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

Hello, Everyone ! I want to thank you in advance for reading my post and I will offer you respect, so please if you have any good advice for me, share it ! 🙂I will be very thankful. Be as honest as possible - I didn't come here to read comforting words, speak your mind !

Firstly, I'd like to write the story behind my choice to join Medical school : in high school I was indecisive about what I want to be, so I have chosen different paths than Medicine. After I realized that those paths aren't the ones I want to build my future on, I decided to start Med school.
Although it wasn't my first choice, when it came down to it, my intention was truly sincere about it : I really wanted to offer my time and my energy to this field. Even more, I always had a dream to contribute with something meaningful to humanity, and I've chosen to help people by becoming a Psychiatrist - not another Pill Doctor, but a truly great and impressive Psychiatrist, who helps millions of people to achieve and nurture something that is so often lost nowadays : mental health.

Lately though, I've started to question my life philosophy. I don't know if I made the right choice by coming here, because I was willing to sacrifice my time and energy in a reasonable way, but this feels more like a self-destructive journey where the damage outweighs the achievements : sleep deprivation, high cortisol and adrenaline levels all the time, difficulty maintaining good training & nutritional habits, etc.

Aside from the lifestyle factors, I also hit a will with the educational system all the time. I know, the educational system is an old story, but I've been hearing a lot that certain personality types will simply never fit into the system and I realize now that I should have listened to that warning, because I've never felt more intense antisocial impulses than since I started Med school. This is the part where most people are like " Just get used to it " , but I don't want to become another sick, tired, indoctrinated doctor, who has to change his whole life just to fit in the system - even if this would make me complete Med school, it would completely change who I am at the core and wouldn't make the whole process worth it.

The funny and ironic part is this : as I've stated before, my goal was to be an expert in mental health, yet it's exactly mental health that I'm starting to struggle with. Sure, I've rarely seen a doctor actually who is fit, fresh and healthy physically and mentally also, but I thought it's just their way of being. Now I see that sooner or later almost everyone becomes like that, because the system is designed like that.

On the other hand, I've invested so much in the idea of doing this, that I don't want to let it go, although I feel that I'll always be on a slippery slope if I continue this : there's always going to be this skepticism of whether this is the right path to go and this constant sensation of alienation toward the medical field and their methods of teaching and their methods of testing.

I'm going to end this here and I'll answer to further questions if someone has any, because I think it's a long post anyway.
Have a Great Day !

So you're in med school right now? All I would say is that it gets better. I shadowed a radiologist who said he absolutely hated med school, but he has a great life right now. My dad chose medical school at last minute, it wasn't his first choice either, but now he loves his job, and makes a lot of money. Chug through it, things will get better.

 

[TurbulentWind]

Please tell us more about your life story - age molars came on, first kiss, favorite ice cream, etc.. Just give us all the facts we here at the pre-allopathic forum need to guide you.

Sent from my SM-N910P using SDN mobile

Not sure what's the point of your sarcasm.

 

[TurbulentWind]

So you're in med school right now?

Yes, I am already in Medical school.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

Not sure what's the point of your sarcasm.

I don't understand why people are jerks unnecessarily. Like the poster who said that.

Are you in first year? Another thing to think about is that transitions suck. They are always hard, and as time goes on, you make more friends, get in a groove, and things become easier.

 

[TurbulentWind]

A few things need to be addressed separately here, so I'll try and go step by step.



Med school not being your first choice or your "true" passion doesn't mean you can't be happy doing it or that you won't be successful. You do need to have some sense that it's what you want to do though, and be willing to make a lot of sacrifices in the pursuit of this career. To the bolded, that's an incredibly naive perspective to have going into medicine for a few reasons. Just because some psychiatrists prescribe a lot of meds doesn't mean they're not necessary. Do a psych rotation and you'll understand how life-changing a prescription can be for some patients. Also, the idea that helping millions of people nurture their mental health is an extremely lofty and something that could be better accomplished as a motivational speaker than a physician.

The only personality types who "can never fit it" are the ones who are so rigid and unreasonable that they can't fit in with anywhere or are set off by the smallest amount of stress. This will vary from school to school, but I think most people are perfectly capable of fitting in. Those who don't usually isolate themselves for whatever reason. Everyone gets stressed out and tired at some point. It's a system designed to weed out those who aren't absolutely committed and those who can't handle delayed gratification. That doesn't mean you have to let it change you though. It'll force you to grow up and see medicine and healthcare in the U.S. for what it really is, but you can still try and accomplish your goals. Reaching millions may not be realistic, but you can definitely try and set up community outreach. If you do it in a major city you could reach a significant number of people. Letting yourself change or become jaded is within your control, though this profession definitely makes it harder to avoid that than others.

You make some valid arguments.
However, I did not say that medication is unnecessary - I just said that my goal is to treat as many people as I can without using medication.
Do I believe that a schizophrenic person needs medication ? Yes. Do I believe that anyone struggling with mental disease needs medication ? No.
The rest is brainwashing. Just because the Medical field allows the usage of pills all the time, it doesn't mean that it's the best thing to do.
Remember the time when amphetamines were written by doctors for obese patients in order to lose weight ? Oh, wait, that is still happening right now.
Same way as many mentally disturbed persons are plainly drugged in order to cope with their problems and never actually fix the root cause of it.

As for the "fitting" part : yes, maybe you're right, although I think that your statement that " everyone who doesn't fit in is rigid and unreasonable " is a bit dogmatic. If the majority fits in a system, that doesn't necessarily mean that the system is well designed - it just means that the majority fits in.
I find it motivating though that you write about a possibility to go through this without letting myself crash during the process - I also want to hang on to this idea and continue going.

 

[TurbulentWind]

I don't understand why people are jerks unnecessarily. Like the poster who said that.

Are you in first year? Another thing to think about is that transitions suck. They are always hard, and as time goes on, you make more friends, get in a groove, and things become easier.

Yes, first year.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

Yes, first year.

Another thing I just remembered: the radiologist I shadowed said in medical school the information he was learning he had no interest in it whatsoever. I don't think he felt like he was "passionate" about medicine either. When you have the knowledge, though, it's awesome when you are able to use it (when you are out in the field working) and I think that's where the gratification comes in. Don't worry if you don't feel passionate about it now.

 

[TurbulentWind]

When you have the knowledge, though, it's awesome when you are able to use it (when you are out in the field working) and I think that's where the gratification comes in. Don't worry if you don't feel passionate about it now.

I've heard the same advice from an engineer. Well, I guess it's the same feeling : you're not passionate about all that math, but when you're able to USE IT - that's when the beauty comes. I think it's the same with Med school.

 

[68PGunner]

Yes, first year.

ROFL

Gross Anatomy will mess with your mind. Push through for the next couple of days and you will be fine. I've heard that it gets better from here.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

I've heard the same advice from an engineer. Well, I guess it's the same feeling : you're not passionate about all that math, but when you're able to USE IT - that's when the beauty comes. I think it's the same with Med school.

Exactly. And whether or not people admit it, i'm sure there are a lot of people who are in your same boat. Good luck 🙂

 

[Stagg737]

You make some valid arguments.
However, I did not say that medication is unnecessary - I just said that my goal is to treat as many people as I can without using medication.
Do I believe that a schizophrenic person needs medication ? Yes. Do I believe that anyone struggling with mental disease needs medication ? No.
The rest is brainwashing. Just because the Medical field allows the usage of pills all the time, it doesn't mean that it's the best thing to do.
Remember the time when amphetamines were written by doctors for obese patients in order to lose weight ? Oh, wait, that is still happening right now.
Same way as many mentally disturbed persons are plainly drugged in order to cope with their problems and never actually fix the root cause of it.

As for the "fitting" part : yes, maybe you're right, although I think that your statement that " everyone who doesn't fit in is rigid and unreasonable " is a bit dogmatic. If the majority fits in a system, that doesn't necessarily mean that the system is well designed - it just means that the majority fits in.
I find it motivating though that you write about a possibility to go through this without letting myself crash during the process - I also want to hang on to this idea and continue going.

I can tell I won't be able to convince you otherwise, but the current drugs used in psychiatry have years of research behind them and we don't just "throw them around" without a reason. You don't give insulin to someone because you "think" they're diabetic, just like you don't give someone lithium unless they meet the criteria for bipolar. Are there ****ty doctors out there that throw meds at everything? Sure. But they are not the norm, and many of them probably shouldn't even be practicing.

When you do your psych rotation you'll realize how wrong the bolded is. We don't give pills unless they're indicated, doing otherwise can be grounds for malpractice. And if someone has a legitimate psychiatric condition like major depressive disorder you're not going to be very successful with any of them unless you're willing to use medication.

 

[LostinLift]

You make some valid arguments.
However, I did not say that medication is unnecessary - I just said that my goal is to treat as many people as I can without using medication.
Do I believe that a schizophrenic person needs medication ? Yes. Do I believe that anyone struggling with mental disease needs medication ? No.
The rest is brainwashing. Just because the Medical field allows the usage of pills all the time, it doesn't mean that it's the best thing to do.
Remember the time when amphetamines were written by doctors for obese patients in order to lose weight ? Oh, wait, that is still happening right now.
Same way as many mentally disturbed persons are plainly drugged in order to cope with their problems and never actually fix the root cause of it.

As for the "fitting" part : yes, maybe you're right, although I think that your statement that " everyone who doesn't fit in is rigid and unreasonable " is a bit dogmatic. If the majority fits in a system, that doesn't necessarily mean that the system is well designed - it just means that the majority fits in.
I find it motivating though that you write about a possibility to go through this without letting myself crash during the process - I also want to hang on to this idea and continue going.

How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?

I'm assuming you want to do psychiatry? Perhaps even Psych/IM? I don't know what the psych guys/gals at your school are like, but mine are all super chill. You can pretty easily work <40 hours depending on what you want (in terms of academics/$$). I also despise our education system, first year and second year were pretty rough in terms of dealing with another 1.5 years of pure "forced" learning, but the time ends up going faster than you would expect. 3rd year is a lot different, but really nice (especially once you finish surg/ob). If you're aiming for psych I would say you should try to shadow a few psychiatrists at your school to get a taste of academic psych, and some community ones if you could manage it. Perhaps this winter/summer break.

 

[ortnakas]

If you were a premed I'd tell you to consider looking at clinical psychology instead-- might be more up your alley.

Since you're already in medical school, I'll tell you it gets better after anatomy. Stick it out, rest when you need to, and see if your passion comes back.

(And after seeing unmedicated-then-medicated patients on my psych rotation, I concur with my med student colleagues that you can't rule out using psych drugs. Sometimes medication is a wonderful thing.)

 

[Azete]

If you were a premed I'd tell you to consider looking at clinical psychology instead-- might be more up your alley.

Since you're already in medical school, I'll tell you it gets better after anatomy. Stick it out, rest when you need to, and see if your passion comes back.

(And after seeing unmedicated-then-medicated patients on my psych rotation, I concur with my med student colleagues that you can't rule out using psych drugs. Sometimes medication is a wonderful thing.)

Can confirm, anatomy made me want to quit several times.

 

[monkeypen]

You make some valid arguments.
However, I did not say that medication is unnecessary - I just said that my goal is to treat as many people as I can without using medication.
Do I believe that a schizophrenic person needs medication ? Yes. Do I believe that anyone struggling with mental disease needs medication ? No.
The rest is brainwashing. Just because the Medical field allows the usage of pills all the time, it doesn't mean that it's the best thing to do.
Remember the time when amphetamines were written by doctors for obese patients in order to lose weight ? Oh, wait, that is still happening right now.
Same way as many mentally disturbed persons are plainly drugged in order to cope with their problems and never actually fix the root cause of it.

As for the "fitting" part : yes, maybe you're right, although I think that your statement that " everyone who doesn't fit in is rigid and unreasonable " is a bit dogmatic. If the majority fits in a system, that doesn't necessarily mean that the system is well designed - it just means that the majority fits in.
I find it motivating though that you write about a possibility to go through this without letting myself crash during the process - I also want to hang on to this idea and continue going.

It's very obvious that you have not done anything clinical yet, especially in psychiatry. Are there physicians, especially non-psychiatry ones that overuse these medicines? Of course. But the drugs that psychiatrists use are well studied, and really can make a huge difference in patients lives. With there being such a shortage of psychiatrists, for many patients to actually get to one means they're really in need of some help. Have you even had any psychiatric education since you're in 1st semester of 1st year? Most likely not, because it definitely isn't brainwashing. Also, you don't seem to know much about psychiatry practices - they also recommend CBT, ECT, and other non-med therapies that can help. You're supposed to be a scientist, so you should learn to use evidence based medicine, and much of the evidence points to medications being helpful for most psychiatric things, and for depression medications are useful for those moderately depressed or worse. (And you're not going to be seeing those that are mild, their PCP's will be taking care of most of those cases.) As a specialty that is in such high demand you're most likely not going to have the time to see patients for an hour or more for each visit to do the required interventions that are outside of medication. Honestly, if you're not that passionate about becoming a physician and you already have what seems like an unfounded bias against medications you may end up treating people badly because of what seems like an implicit bias you have. It sounds like you'd be more content with being a clinical psychologist - think about a masters program in that maybe instead.

 

[Spectre of Ockham]

No - you'll be miserable.

 

[PhillyMed777]

Honestly, I can't think of a single person from my class who is 100% passionate at this moment in time during third yr. the majority of us are broken. You don't need to be 100% passionate to make it worthwhile otherwise everyone in my class would have to quit. There are two sides to every coin.

 

[Seroquel]

To OP, I wasn't sure if I was 100% passionate about medicine, but I came into med school very interested in psychiatry as a field. First year, particularly anatomy, was tough. I actually hated anatomy and couldn't wait to be done with it. Second year was substantially better and I found myself enjoying the material. Of course, studying for step 1 was a low point. Third year offered a lot of clarity. I ended up loving psych, thankfully, but it isn't always clear cut what you will end up liking or not until you rotate through it. Had I hated it, I'm not sure what I would have done. There's also that oft-repeated mantra of "med students change their mind a lot during third year" which for me at least was not true. Psychiatry as a field is just so different from the rest and I felt like I had adequate exposure and interests prior to med school but I found that there were things I hadn't thought about during to the rotation. I would say it is a gamble if you are in it only for psych. You have to deal with successfully passing the board exams and studying for them (90% not related to psychiatry; although my step 2 had a lot of it) and rotating through internal medicine and surgery. And doing well enough to match. Since you are already in first year I would suggest keeping at it and shadowing a psychiatrist to get a better feel for it. Unfortunately, you really won't know until third year.

 

[TurbulentWind]

Honestly, I can't think of a single person from my class who is 100% passionate at this moment in time during third yr. the majority of us are broken. You don't need to be 100% passionate to make it worthwhile otherwise everyone in my class would have to quit. There are two sides to every coin.

I know what you mean, but even if everyone goes in one direction, that direction can still be wrong.

I am not feeling confident because I do what the majority does, I am feeling confident when I feel viscerally that what I do is right.
I am continuing on this path, by the way, but I can just hope that in the future this will feel right.

 

[TurbulentWind]

It sounds like you'd be more content with being a clinical psychologist - think about a masters program in that maybe instead.

Thanks, but no thanks.
As for the rest of your text : you only create your argument based on the fact that ” you haven't done anything clinical yet " -while I'm sure that your Soviet-Harvard illusion makes you consider yourself smarter than anyone out there who doesn't have clinical experience yet, but apart from that, you haven't convinced me that psychiatric medicine is overused and you don't need a diploma to prove that ( although a diploma certainly doesn't hurt, that's why I am going for it - you, on the other hand, are defending those who are using their diploma to contribute to the business of prescribing psychiatric drugs even to people who have other alternatives ).

 

[witzelsucht]

Thanks, but no thanks.
As for the rest of your text : you only create your argument based on the fact that ” you haven't done anything clinical yet " -while I'm sure that your Soviet-Harvard illusion makes you consider yourself smarter than anyone out there who doesn't have clinical experience yet, but apart from that, you haven't convinced me that psychiatric medicine is overused and you don't need a diploma to prove that ( although a diploma certainly doesn't hurt, that's why I am going for it - you, on the other hand, are defending those who are using their diploma to contribute to the business of prescribing psychiatric drugs even to people who have other alternatives ).

wow how much adderall did it take to come up with that run-on?

 

[I'm No Superman]

Hey ur back. hi.

 

[TurbulentWind]

wow how much adderall did it take to come up with that run-on?

None, but I love your compliment so much !!!!

 

[MrChance2]

I would get to know some physicians in your chosen field before bashing the majority of them.

Also something seems generally off here. I'm
Not entirely convinced medicine is a good fit for you. Tough call to make over a forum though.

 

[TurbulentWind]

I would get to know some physicians in your chosen field before bashing the majority of them.

Also something seems generally off here. I'm
Not entirely convinced medicine is a good fit for you. Tough call to make over a forum though.

Maybe you consider my style is "off" , but I do consider myself good for the medical field.
I don't want to offend anyone, but there are enough doctors out there who don't do justice to this field, they are usually the most unconcerned about how well medicine "fits" them. They also are the ones who are very fast to judge everyone else about how well the field fits them , even though they have no relevant information about the other person. I did work not only to cultivate my knowledge in the field, but to also develop myself as a person, to constantly sculpt my character in order to be congruent with my future career and to identify myself with my profession.
The fact that you're judging me based on an internet forum is basically of zero value, you know that, right ?

Have a nice day.

 

[deleted480308]

Passion is an overused cliche. I have no passion whatsoever for med school. It is just the opportunity cost of getting where I want to be...

"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, nobody wants to lift heavy a-- weight " - ronnie coleman

 

[TurbulentWind]

Passion is an overused cliche. I have no passion whatsoever for med school. It is just the opportunity cost of getting where I want to be...

"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, nobody wants to lift heavy a-- weight " - ronnie coleman

True that.
I also do weightlifting and well....truth is that I AM passionate about it, but the passion is not enough to do it - the discipline is the true engine that gets me going.

 

[FourniersGreenGang]

The road is brutal but there is light at the end of the tunnel. I just met a psychiatrist at a professional development event thing, and he was very happy with how he did things. I think that's a specialty where you can avoid a lot of the problems with current health care issues and have a great life outside of work. I'd say don't let the path scare you and remember if you go into psych, go cash based.

 

[FBurnaby]

OP's characterization of a psychiatry sounds like a mixture of media and entertainment, have you ever shadowed a psychiatrist? Doing some volunteering with inpatient psych may answer some of your questions.

 

[TurbulentWind]

OP's characterization of a psychiatry sounds like a mixture of media and entertainment, have you ever shadowed a psychiatrist? Doing some volunteering with inpatient psych may answer some of your questions.

My intention was not to depict psychiatry as something so ridiculous like what you described, but speaking of ridiculous : it is ridiculous to me that everything outside of the ordinary and traditional procedure is labeled as "weird" and "eccentric" , etc. etc.

My father is a doctor - not a psychiatrist, but a cardiologist. A few years ago he shared with me his opinion that nowadays doctors are way too constrained by the system that makes them to follow standardized steps for every single thing. He said that doctors deserve a healthy dose of freedom in their profession, just because they do things differently shouldn't be a problem, because different doesn't mean wrong and there is something really unnatural and stupid about ridiculing doctors who have initiative and a new perspective toward a certain field.

Apart from that, I'm not pretending that I know everything - of course I have a lot to learn and this is what I want to do, I would learn day and night, but the only thing that I said was that at the end of the day, we should be able to present our own ideas, not just follow procedures like some robots, but actually ask question, question everything, and have the courage to stand up for our own ideas. Even if they turn out to be wrong, so what ? There is nothing to lose, if your ideas turn out to be wrong, but for all the people who are being sarcastic here and telling me how "wrong" I am : you are the reason for why other people don't dare to ask questions anymore and their only concern is " to fit in ", without ever coming up with something by themselves.

 

[FBurnaby]

My intention was not to depict psychiatry as something so ridiculous like what you described, but speaking of ridiculous : it is ridiculous to me that everything outside of the ordinary and traditional procedure is labeled as "weird" and "eccentric" , etc. etc.

Posters are responding this way because it's apparent you have little to no grasp on what psychiatrists do day to day, or what individuals dealing with severe chronic mental health conditions are like. Nothing you're saying is "outside of the ordinary" and no one is calling you weird. No one is oppressing your "ideas" (but it almost sounds like you want us to). I suggested exposure to inpatient psych because it may help you decide if psychiatry or a different mental health training route is best for your career goals. I'm not sure where the rest of that babble came from but I'm surprised you even applied to med school if you label the profession as pill doctors and robots. This profession is full of inventive critical thinkers who continuously question everything, I hope you find that part of it.

 

[ufrunner94]

OP you asked for honest opinions and you got them... not sure why you're getting so defensive

 

[Anicetus]

I think it depends what you may not be that passionate about.

If you are only passionate about surgery and despise medicine and primary care, then you better assure yourself that you'll excel academically or you'll be screwed.

 

[drinwaiting3]

Going to med school is a lot like learning a trade. Not always that exciting, unfortunately, and sometimes downright dull. It definitely takes a lot of self-discipline to get through it.

I see psychiatry as one of the most difficult areas of medicine to practice well. Most people aren't cut out for it because a lot of the people you will treat are seriously disturbed and this is just too difficult for most people to handle over an extended period of time. I know fellow two med students that are planning to go into psychiatry and both are toward the edges of the bell curve, not the middle.

On the state of science in medicine see: http://www.jclinepi.com/article/S0895-4356(16)00147-5/abstract

 

[circulus vitios]

Med school sucks if you aren't drinking the Kool Aid by the gallon. There other careers that can be equally as fulfilling while preserving your social life.

 

[tennischamp822]

...

 

[tennischamp822]

...

 

[sloop]

You make some valid arguments.
However, I did not say that medication is unnecessary - I just said that my goal is to treat as many people as I can without using medication.
Do I believe that a schizophrenic person needs medication ? Yes. Do I believe that anyone struggling with mental disease needs medication ? No.
The rest is brainwashing. Just because the Medical field allows the usage of pills all the time, it doesn't mean that it's the best thing to do.
Remember the time when amphetamines were written by doctors for obese patients in order to lose weight ? Oh, wait, that is still happening right now.
Same way as many mentally disturbed persons are plainly drugged in order to cope with their problems and never actually fix the root cause of it.

As for the "fitting" part : yes, maybe you're right, although I think that your statement that " everyone who doesn't fit in is rigid and unreasonable " is a bit dogmatic. If the majority fits in a system, that doesn't necessarily mean that the system is well designed - it just means that the majority fits in.
I find it motivating though that you write about a possibility to go through this without letting myself crash during the process - I also want to hang on to this idea and continue going.

Of course not everyone needs psychotropic medication, but almost everybody who winds up at a hospital for a psychiatric issue does.

The idea of using medications as little as possible seems great until you actually start seeing people with mental illness and begin to recognize that most severe mental illness is underpinned by a substantial biological/physiological component, that many people lack almost any insight and can't participate in any type of psychotherapy without pharmacological stabilization and that psychotherapy as monotherapy simply is not indicated in many conditions.

It's not just schizophrenics. Most people with MDD, anxiety disorders, OCD, borderline personality disorder, bipolar disorder, PTSD, etc. need medication if they're showing up at your hospital.

I'm sorry but while the "we should avoid medications as much as possible" mantra usually comes from the right place, I find that it also usually reflects ignorance about psychopathology and what psychiatry as a whole does.

 

[circulus vitios]

What do you mean by Kool Aid?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid

 

[TurbulentWind]

Of course not everyone needs psychotropic medication, but almost everybody who winds up at a hospital for a psychiatric issue does.

The idea of using medications as little as possible seems great until you actually start seeing people with mental illness and begin to recognize that most severe mental illness is underpinned by a substantial biological/physiological component, that many people lack almost any insight and can't participate in any type of psychotherapy without pharmacological stabilization and that psychotherapy as monotherapy simply is not indicated in many conditions.

It's not just schizophrenics. Most people with MDD, anxiety disorders, OCD, borderline personality disorder, bipolar disorder, PTSD, etc. need medication if they're showing up at your hospital.

I'm sorry but while the "we should avoid medications as much as possible" mantra usually comes from the right place, I find that it also usually reflects ignorance about psychopathology and what psychiatry as a whole does.

I don't want to be rude to you , because your response has been respectful, even if you disagreed.

You mentioned ignorance : I see ignorance on both sides of the spectrum. Sure, a person who knows nothing about science could be ignorant and harm the patient, but a person who apparently knows a lot of things could still be ignorant, taking into consideration the problems with evidence-based medicine, the Soviet-Harvard illusion ( = thinking that you can "control" things and ending up doing more harm to them than if you'd minimize your intervention ) , plus the business that Big Pharma is.

It seems like no one thinks about the situations when :
1. doctors prescribe amphetamines in order to "help" patients lose weights - seriously, do you find that it's normal that many people can take amphetamine only because "the doctor told so" ? They are basically selling the drug legally, the money goes to the company who makes it, while the side effects are terrible in the long run, yet no one gives a damn about it. If you think it's alright, only because "the doctor knows better", then there is a serious problem with you.

2. doctors prescribe pills to treat ADHD/Bipolar/Anxiety/etc. , creating a condition that never gets cured, only gets the patient dependent on the substance.
Do you know how many people I know who have Bipolar disorder and take pills ? They are obsessed all the time with their medication, their whole life is a mess that goes around worrying about their medication, because they no longer feel like a functional person if they don't take their medication.
Do you know how many people I know who have Bipolar disorder and don't take pills , but started exercising, meditation techniques, frequent walks in the fresh air, etc . ? Well, I don't know many of them , unfortunately, because this is the harder way, but the ones that I know aren't crippled by their condition, they are fully functional people, who live a great life and manage to live with their condition far more better than the first group of persons.

As you can see, I never said that serious conditions, such as Schizophrenia, shouldn't be treated with medicine.
What I wrote is that there are many conditions that could be treated without medicine.
Taking into consideration how many persons have intentionally misinterpreted what I wrote raises a big question mark whether it's really so simple to brainwash people who supposedly should excel in critical thinking.

 

[sloop]

I don't want to be rude to you , because your response has been respectful, even if you disagreed.

You mentioned ignorance : I see ignorance on both sides of the spectrum. Sure, a person who knows nothing about science could be ignorant and harm the patient, but a person who apparently knows a lot of things could still be ignorant, taking into consideration the problems with evidence-based medicine, the Soviet-Harvard illusion ( = thinking that you can "control" things and ending up doing more harm to them than if you'd minimize your intervention ) , plus the business that Big Pharma is.

No. This is not a matter of overreaching the extent of one's knowledge. This is a matter of you not having experience treating these patients and pontificating about the way these patients should be treated. This isn't about making money—this is about the fact that many psychiatric patients need medication.

It seems like no one thinks about the situations when :
1. doctors prescribe amphetamines in order to "help" patients lose weights - seriously, do you find that it's normal that many people can take amphetamine only because "the doctor told so" ? They are basically selling the drug legally, the money goes to the company who makes it, while the side effects are terrible in the long run, yet no one gives a damn about it. If you think it's alright, only because "the doctor knows better", then there is a serious problem with you.

Of course amphetamines have dangers but I do actually think that a thoughtful decision can reasonably be made to start them for weight loss in certain patients. Guess what—being morbidly obese is also really bad for your health. Just as bariatric surgery is a great option for weight loss, so too are amphetamines. Neither is without risk, but a discussion can be had about whether the benefits outweigh the risks.

2. doctors prescribe pills to treat ADHD/Bipolar/Anxiety/etc. , creating a condition that never gets cured, only gets the patient dependent on the substance.
Do you know how many people I know who have Bipolar disorder and take pills ? They are obsessed all the time with their medication, their whole life is a mess that goes around worrying about their medication, because they no longer feel like a functional person if they don't take their medication.
Do you know how many people I know who have Bipolar disorder and don't take pills , but started exercising, meditation techniques, frequent walks in the fresh air, etc . ? Well, I don't know many of them , unfortunately, because this is the harder way, but the ones that I know aren't crippled by their condition, they are fully functional people, who live a great life and manage to live with their condition far more better than the first group of persons.

Yeah, the thing with bipolar (and depression for that matter) is that these are episodic illnesses. People can appear fine to you because they are fine in that moment. That doesn't mean they don't suffer from dangerously unmedicated mental illness.

Of course, there may be some people with very mild Bipolar II who might fare okay without medications, but you will likely never see most of these people as a psychiatrist. The people who come to the hospital because of their bipolar need to be medicated. You only think this is some mere matter of opinion because you haven't seen these patients in the E.D. I'm telling you—almost invariably if someone shows up to the E.D. because of bipolar, it would be malpractice to send them off without giving them some sort of medication.

As you can see, I never said that serious conditions, such as Schizophrenia, shouldn't be treated with medicine.
What I wrote is that there are many conditions that could be treated without medicine.

Honestly, this is just not that accurate. There are some conditions for which this may be true, but for most psychiatric conditions you will see in a hospital, standard of care involves medication. It may also involve therapy but typically not as monotherapy.

Taking into consideration how many persons have intentionally misinterpreted what I wrote raises a big question mark whether it's really so simple to brainwash people who supposedly should excel in critical thinking.

I'm not the only future psychiatrist who thinks like this.

They're not misinterpreting you. You are expressing quite a bit of reservation about prescribing drugs for mental illness. Good psychiatry involves a lot of prescribing. I don't know what to tell you.

You're also right that there are quite a few psychiatrists who think the way you do. It doesn't mean they're right or that they're practicing great medicine, though.

 

[TurbulentWind]

You're also right that there are quite a few psychiatrists who think the way you do. It doesn't mean they're right or that they're practicing great medicine, though.

With all due respect, that applies to you as well : just because the majority of you are thinking in a certain way, it doesn't mean that you're right.
But that's something that doesn't cross your head, does it ?

 

[sloop]

With all due respect, that applies to you as well : just because the majority of you are thinking in a certain way, it doesn't mean that you're right.
But that's something that doesn't cross your head, does it ?

Dude. I'm a fourth year medical student a few rotations short of graduating and going into psychiatry. I've done a little less than half a year of psychiatry rotations in various areas of the specialty. I'm not an expert but I think I've seen more than enough patients to develop an opinion on this issue. You're entitled to your opinion, too, but you're wrong. You have zero experience in this and you don't know what you don't know.

 

[FBurnaby]

@TurbulentWind instead of telling doctors on SDN what you think doctors do (based on your sample size of a couple friends, news headlines, and CAM facebook memes apparently) you should talk with your school counselor. If you decide medicine is for you for god sakes shadow a psychiatrist and get exposure.

 

[Psai]

Med school sucks if you aren't drinking the Kool Aid by the gallon. There other careers that can be equally as fulfilling while preserving your social life.

It's way better than hard labor though. In medical school, you sit in climate controlled air conditioned cubicles, it's pretty sweet. Have you ever worked on an oil rig, sun beating down on you all day? I've done that for several years and I can tell you that being a doctor will be so easy compared to that. You guys are just babies that never did a hard day's work in your life. If you had any life experience you'd know that medical school is really easy and nothing compared to hard labor on an oil rig in the middle of the ocean which I do. I'm going to do so well in medical school.

 

[circulus vitios]

It's way better than hard labor though. In medical school, you sit in climate controlled air conditioned cubicles, it's pretty sweet. Have you ever worked on an oil rig, sun beating down on you all day? I've done that for several years and I can tell you that being a doctor will be so easy compared to that. You guys are just babies that never did a hard day's work in your life. If you had any life experience you'd know that medical school is really easy and nothing compared to hard labor on an oil rig in the middle of the ocean which I do. I'm going to do so well in medical school.

Medical school sucks a fat one but it's better than breaking your back for 40 years. Luckily I have options other than manual labor or med school.