Medical Schools forcing release of medical records ? (UT System)

[esob]

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So I read a thread (albeit an older one) and in that thread a UTMB student talked about how after being admitted, UTMB had him fill out a form listing every doctor he had received treatment from in the past 5 years AND forcing him to sign release forms which allowed the school to acquire his records. He stated that they told him if he failed to sign the release they would effectively rescind his acceptance. Is this the standard for all medical schools? For all UT system schools?

 

[deleted480308]

call them and ask

 

[jqueb29]

I've never heard of anything like this. Seems pretty screwed up, unethical, and possibly (at least should be) illegal.

 

[esob]

Bumping this, I would like to hear from some other accepted students if this is the norm or the exception. Maybe some people like @Goro can let us know if this is official policy at schools?

 

[rilte4]

wtf

 

[ridethecliche]

So I read a thread (albeit an older one) and in that thread a UTMB student talked about how after being admitted, UTMB had him fill out a form listing every doctor he had received treatment from in the past 5 years AND forcing him to sign release forms which allowed the school to acquire his records. He stated that they told him if he failed to sign the release they would effectively rescind his acceptance. Is this the standard for all medical schools? For all UT system schools?

Source?

 

[CopaceticOne]

Call the school and ask them the question if you are concerned about it.

 

[Goro]

My school doesn't do this. I've never once heard of it happening at other schools either, and it stinks of HIPAA violation, so I have a little trouble swallowing it.

TLDR: don't believe everything you read on the internet.

 

[esob]

Source?

Seems to be a legit user who stated it:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/mental-health-past-and-medicine-future.8416/#post-80430

and the response he left was here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/mental-health-past-and-medicine-future.8416/#post-80436

After I was accepted, I had to send them a list of all doctors I'd seen in the last 5 years - and since I was still seeing my pdoc my Sr year of high school, I had to include his name. I also had to sign a release, authorizing them to get my records. Apparantly, not agreeing to this can lead to them un-accepting you. *shrug* im not that worried about it.

 

[ridethecliche]

There's absolutely no way for a school to know about a history of mental illnesses unless you mention it in your application or a letter writer does.

I have a close friend that deferred from med school for a year to get their bipolar disorder under control since it was a new diagnosis after an incorrect depression diagnosis that didn't make sense to her for years. The school was nothing but supportive, but they didn't know till she gave them her reason for deferment.

 

[Spector1]

There is a right to be protected against discrimination of disabilities. If this is happening, this school is treading on some very tenuous legal ground.

 

[esob]

There's absolutely no way for a school to know about a history of mental illnesses unless you mention it in your application or a letter writer does.

I have a close friend that deferred from med school for a year to get their bipolar disorder under control since it was a new diagnosis after an incorrect depression diagnosis that didn't make sense to her for years. The school was nothing but supportive, but they didn't know till she gave them her reason for deferment.

Well that is what I've already read on SDN as well (that a school won't know if you have arthritis, a bad knee, etc. unless you tell them). Also the common advice seems to be that if you do have an issue, it's not really in your benefit to mention it. Again, that's a person choice but at least it is a choice. However, if a school's official policy (and again, the referenced poster doesn't seem to be a troll) is to require the release of the most recent 5 years of medical information or rescind acceptance, then it really no longer is a choice. Regardless, it is what it is; I was mostly curious if this was the norm, the exception, or simply something that is common to the UT health system schools. Whether a school is supportive or not is a wholly separate issue about whether or not they require the release of protected health information as a condition of acceptance. Good for them if they are supportive, bad for them if they embrace such a practice to begin with.

 

[ridethecliche]

There is a right to be protected against discrimination of disabilities. If this is happening, this school is treading on some very tenuous legal ground.

This is my thinking as well. How is it legal for them to ask for this information?

 

[Doug Underhill]

They may be able to look at things like immunizations and verify them, but if they ever attempted to rescind an acceptance based on something like mental illness, millions of trial attorneys would start salivating at the prospect.

 

[mimelim]

My school doesn't do this. I've never once heard of it happening at other schools either, and it stinks of HIPAA violation, so I have a little trouble swallowing it.

TLDR: don't believe everything you read on the internet.

#1 I have never heard of a school doing this.
#2 I certainly don't think that schools should do this.

However, how could this possibly be a HIPAA violation? You willingly give your records to another party.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I would be worried about other stuff that could be in there. Like admitting to unprotected sex/a possible STD diagnosis, admitting to illegal drug use, or other legal vices like cigarettes/alcohol abuse.

I know one of the schools I applied to requires you submit a list of all medications you are currently prescribed along with a drug+alcohol+tobacco urine test. Even that seemed super sketchy to me.

 

[lcm2020]

#1 I have never heard of a school doing this.
#2 I certainly don't think that schools should do this.

However, how could this possibly be a HIPAA violation? You willingly give your records to another party.

Isn't that considered coercing you to release it though?

 

[christmasindr]

A school simply cannot ask you to sign a form to get the right to access ALL medical records without any cause. It won't stand on court. Can we have a more legitimate source than from SDN?

 

[Doctoblast]

My school doesn't do this. I've never once heard of it happening at other schools either, and it stinks of HIPAA violation, so I have a little trouble swallowing it.

TLDR: don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Unless Goro wrote it

 

[mimelim]

Isn't that considered coercing you to release it though?

I don't know what being coerced has to do with HIPAA.

The school can not have a HIPAA violation because they are not the ones protecting your health information. The entity responsible is the provider who if YOU request the information be shared is not violating HIPAA.

 

[Goro]

Under duress??

My rationale is that they are asking you for protected health info. Please excuse my ignorance here.

However, how could this possibly be a HIPAA violation? You willingly give your records to another party.

 

[mimelim]

They may be able to look at things like immunizations and verify them, but if they ever attempted to rescind an acceptance based on something like mental illness, millions of trial attorneys would start salivating at the prospect.

There is a big difference between requesting information and then discriminating based upon it. Schools ask for information all the time that they are not legally allowed to discriminate based on and we 'trust' that they don't. I can easily see a school making the same argument with this as a criminal record.

A school simply cannot ask you to sign a form to get the right to access ALL medical records without any cause. It won't stand on court. Can we have a more legitimate source than from SDN?

What exactly won't stand up in court? What law are they breaking? Again, to avoid confusion, I will state very clearly, I would never support this (and doubt that it exists anyways). But, just because people/schools do something a particular way doesn't mean that if they didn't, it would be illegal.

 

[idontwatchgreysanatomy]

Schools already do something similar to this during applications. When it comes to letters of recommendation, FERPA ensures the right for you to see your letters. However, schools ask you to waive that right. Of course, you don't have to, but you won't get excepted unless you do. This is no different. HIPAA doesn't apply because they are not the ones who are providing you medical care. You are willingly giving them access. Sure, you don't have to, but they also don't have to let you go to the school.

 

[mimelim]

Under duress??

My rationale is that they are asking you for protected health info. Please excuse my ignorance here.

This is not an application of HIPAA. The provider is the one that has HIPAA responsibilities, not the school. Everything that we ask for on an application is "under duress" or "coerced". For example, your gender, your birthday, even your name can be used to discriminate against you, yet they are standard parts of the application. If you don't provide those things, no school will look at your application ("coerced"). I am NOT arguing that it isn't reasonable to ask for those things and unreasonable to ask for medical records. I am simply saying that these are not issues for legal/courts/HIPAA.

 

[christmasindr]

There is a big difference between requesting information and then discriminating based upon it. Schools ask for information all the time that they are not legally allowed to discriminate based on and we 'trust' that they don't. I can easily see a school making the same argument with this as a criminal record.



What exactly won't stand up in court? What law are they breaking? Again, to avoid confusion, I will state very clearly, I would never support this (and doubt that it exists anyways). But, just because people/schools do something a particular way doesn't mean that if they didn't, it would be illegal.

You can't request all students all of their medical records without a cause. For one, if a student claims discrimination for X condition later down the line, then the school is in big trouble. Two, school doesn't necessarily have the resources to safeguard the confidential health information, which is a lot since you are asking for all medical records for each student. If that type of info leaks out somehow, then the school is again in trouble. The list goes on and on. I am no lawyer, but I am pretty sure schools can't do that (and I don't see any legitimate source any school is currently doing that).

 

[mimelim]

You can't request all students all of their medical records without a cause. For one, if a student claims discrimination for X condition later down the line, then the school is in big trouble. Two, school doesn't necessarily have the resources to safeguard the confidential health information, which is a lot since you are asking for all medical records for each student. If that type of info leaks out somehow, then the school is again in trouble. The list goes on and on. I am no lawyer, but I am pretty sure schools can't do that (and I don't see any legitimate source any school is currently doing that).

Again, my issue is with the emotional driving this discussion, exemplified by this post. There are no actual substantive arguments in your post, just things that you 'think' or 'feel'.

"You can't request all students all of their medical records without a cause." Yes, you can.

"For one, if a student claims discrimination for X condition later down the line, then the school is in big trouble." Which is what HIPAA compliant security is for, just like hospital databases. Further, any data breach will land a school in trouble. I fail to see how sentence one connects with sentence two.

"Two, school doesn't necessarily have the resources to safeguard the confidential health information, which is a lot since you are asking for all medical records for each student." I don't think that you know anything about "the resources to safeguard the confidential health information", thus it seems odd that you would try to make a claim based on this. Resources to protect 12,000 patients and their records was affordable on my resident salary for my research (was re-reimbursed by the hospital, but making the point). A school a) has more resources than me and b) will have to protect far less records than me.

"If that type of info leaks out somehow, then the school is again in trouble." This is true for many things. That doesn't mean that you CAN'T collect the information.

"The list goes on and on. I am no lawyer, but I am pretty sure schools can't do that (and I don't see any legitimate source any school is currently doing that)." No, the list does not go on and on. You are no lawyer. There are no schools that I am aware of that are doing it, I doubt they exist and I certainly wouldn't support them doing it.

 

[christmasindr]

Again, my issue is with the emotional driving this discussion, exemplified by this post. There are no actual substantive arguments in your post, just things that you 'think' or 'feel'.

"You can't request all students all of their medical records without a cause." Yes, you can.

"For one, if a student claims discrimination for X condition later down the line, then the school is in big trouble." Which is what HIPAA compliant security is for, just like hospital databases. Further, any data breach will land a school in trouble. I fail to see how sentence one connects with sentence two.

"Two, school doesn't necessarily have the resources to safeguard the confidential health information, which is a lot since you are asking for all medical records for each student." I don't think that you know anything about "the resources to safeguard the confidential health information", thus it seems odd that you would try to make a claim based on this. Resources to protect 12,000 patients and their records was affordable on my resident salary for my research (was re-reimbursed by the hospital, but making the point). A school a) has more resources than me and b) will have to protect far less records than me.

"If that type of info leaks out somehow, then the school is again in trouble." This is true for many things. That doesn't mean that you CAN'T collect the information.

"The list goes on and on. I am no lawyer, but I am pretty sure schools can't do that (and I don't see any legitimate source any school is currently doing that)." No, the list does not go on and on. You are no lawyer. There are no schools that I am aware of that are doing it, I doubt they exist and I certainly wouldn't support them doing it. But, I'm sorry, you are woefully ignorant on this topic.

I think this response is much more emotional driven than mine. And it is not very kind to call someone ignorant without pointing out sources. Iono why you are taking this so personally. FYI, HIPAA doesn't apply here in this case. Family Education Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) governs school records. Take a look at this and let me know what you think: http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/doc/ferpa-hipaa-guidance.pdf.
The legal risks requesting all records without a cause are extremely high. Can a school does it? I am still trying to look. That's why I said it wouldn't stand in court as opposed to it is straight right illegal.

 

[mimelim]

I think this response is much more emotional driven than mine. And it is not very kind to call someone ignorant without pointing out sources. Iono why you are taking this so personally. FYI, HIPAA doesn't apply here in this case. Family Education Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) governs school records. Take a look at this and let me know what you think: http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/doc/ferpa-hipaa-guidance.pdf.
The legal risks requesting all records without a cause are extremely high. Can a school does it? I am still trying to look. That's why I said it wouldn't stand in court as opposed to it is straight right illegal.

I don't know which is worse, your lack of basic understanding of this or your reading comprehension. I suggest you re-read this thread as you are trying to dredge up things already addressed.

I don't know what being coerced has to do with HIPAA.

The school can not have a HIPAA violation because they are not the ones protecting your health information. The entity responsible is the provider who if YOU request the information be shared is not violating HIPAA.

This is not an application of HIPAA. The provider is the one that has HIPAA responsibilities, not the school. Everything that we ask for on an application is "under duress" or "coerced". For example, your gender, your birthday, even your name can be used to discriminate against you, yet they are standard parts of the application. If you don't provide those things, no school will look at your application ("coerced"). I am NOT arguing that it isn't reasonable to ask for those things and unreasonable to ask for medical records. I am simply saying that these are not issues for legal/courts/HIPAA.

But, most likely you will get defensive again and this will go no where. So I will simply end here.

 

[lexus2012]

current UTMB student here....I've never heard of this being done before nor was this requested of me. As for immunizations it's a form that your physician's office fills out and sends back. None of my friends at other UT schools have mentioned anything otherwise.

 

[esob]

Another question that naturally stems from this I think is what happens if a student fails to disclose a doctor. If the school somehow finds out 5 years later can they strip your degree for failing to disclose something? For example, I ride motocross and end up with at least a couple broken ribs every other season. If I fail to disclose that to a school because I feel it may cause them to discriminate against me are they able to revoke my degree?

 

[malina]

This sounds really far-fetched to me.

 

[maxwell_edison]

This sounds more like the FAA medical certification than med school. Sure you're at the right type of school?

 

[AnotherLawyer]

I'm a lawyer but I have zero experience in this area, so this is just layperson's opinion.

Every medical school has "technical standards" and a process for assessing them, including requesting medical documentation. If a school feels your mental health issues may constitute a failure to fulfill the technical standards, they need to investigate, which will likely involve reviewing health records. Maybe I'm just missing something, but this doesn't sound controversial to me.

 

[ZX10R]

I got to a UT medical school (not UTMB) and the only medical history we disclose is vaccination records. I've never been asked about PMH (previous medical history). And no they don't care if you ride motocross, race Superbikes <-, jump out of planes, rock climb, ect.