Medical Schools

[taheem]

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How much harder is it to get into medical school in Canada compared to places such as the Caribbean or the United states. Is there any places i can go where i do noe have to do an undergrad?
Also i was wondering what the process is in becoming a doctor in canada and the process in becoming a doctor in the caribbean. How many tests would i have to write in canada once i come back from teh caribbean?

 

[caryabhi127]

The process of taking admission in medical school is almost same in every country. But for practicing in any country other than where you have taken the degree, you will to do some internship of fixed time in that country.

 

[McGillGrad]

All schools in the US, Canada and the Caribbean require at least 90 credit hours and most need 120 credit hours.

 

[coralis]

How much harder is it to get into medical school in Canada compared to places such as the Caribbean or the United states. Is there any places i can go where i do noe have to do an undergrad?
Also i was wondering what the process is in becoming a doctor in canada and the process in becoming a doctor in the caribbean. How many tests would i have to write in canada once i come back from teh caribbean?

FYI it is actually harder to gain acceptance in Canada then the US and Caribbean (cannot even compare but just to humour you). They have less schools in Canada than the US, admiting about 1700 students in the COUNTRY! You can try to apply for pre-med where you do not need to have an undergrad, if you are not a permanent resident or a citizen, goog luck with that, and there are sooo many other impediments. As for coming back to Canada from the Caribbean you need to take 4 exams. 3 federal and 1 provincial, the hard part is actually getting a residency. In conclusion, if you are Canadian it will cost you two arms and a leg and a couple of wasted years, if you are not Canadian, it will cost you your soul, 10 lost years, thousands of dollars that you will have to pay for examinations etc all while you will be having a crappy job while you live in a bachelor appartment. Stick to the US, it'll be hard but not hell.

 

[PistolPete]

If you're not a Canadian citizen, don't bother applying to Canadian medical schools (the only exception might be if you are a US citizen and try to get into McGill).

Most (if not all) will require you to be a permanent resident or citizen.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

FYI it is actually harder to gain acceptance in Canada then the US and Caribbean (cannot even compare but just to humour you). They have less schools in Canada than the US, admiting about 1700 students in the COUNTRY!

That's unimpressive. The US schools admit about 18K students per year, and the US has about 10 times the population of Canada, so it's about the same. Maybe more people in Canada apply, but the per capita number of medical students seems quite comparable.

 

[CristinaMed]

That's unimpressive. The US schools admit about 18K students per year, and the US has about 10 times the population of Canada, so it's about the same. Maybe more people in Canada apply, but the per capita number of medical students seems quite comparable.

If you look at the cumulative GPA of admitted medical students in Canada, it is way higher than those in the U.S. Having good grades is not sufficient either. Just as an example- McGill U presently has a very difficult interviewing process which consists of MMIs - multiple mini-interviews. A series of about 10 interviews involving ethical and psychological evaluations of candidates.

I personally know 2 guys who studied in undergrad with me who can attest to the difficult application process in Canada. They both had a straight 4.0 cumulative GPA and got interviewed at McGill U. They were rejected at McGill but were accepted at the University of Toronto because U of T doesn't BS like McGill does in the selection process. Both of these guys are doing extremely well now. One of them is a cardiologist and the other is a neurologist.

In the U.S, you can achieve less than a 3.5 cGPA and get admitted to medical school. In Canada, this is unheard of. If a Canadian has money and a decent cGPA, they have a higher chance of being admitted to a U.S medical school (even as a foreigner) than a Canadian one since good marks, high MCAT scores and extra-curricular activities are never a guarantee that you will be admitted in Canada.

 

[jcurris]

As pretty much everyone already said it is much harder to gain admission in canada compared to the caribbean. Regarding the states, well, it depends where you are applying. All of this also depends on if you are canadian, american or international student.

Check out www.themsag.com ; The Complete Edition one is the one I have and for canada it gives the breakdown of what each school looks at. There are also quite a few summary tables about the admissions - it tells u which school allow u to apply to without a completed undergraduate degree - which courses u need for each, how they calculate a score to decide who they interview, etc. it makes it way easier to decide where to apply and figure out where you can get it. I personally want to go to the UK or Ireland cuz my boyfirend is there so it was really good cuz it has the same information about the uk and ireland and the caribbean's schools.

 

[McGillGrad]

That's unimpressive. The US schools admit about 18K students per year, and the US has about 10 times the population of Canada, so it's about the same. Maybe more people in Canada apply, but the per capita number of medical students seems quite comparable.

Is this how they teach you to statistically analyse in US universities (or "colleges" as you prefer to call them)? You might want to re-evaluate your comparative criteria.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Is this how they teach you to statistically analyse in US universities (or "colleges" as you prefer to call them)? You might want to re-evaluate your comparative criteria.

I stand by my statement. Coralis claimed that there are fewer schools in Canada than in the US, when in fact proportionally they are about the same. I don't see where statistics come into it. if you have something substantial to say, please feel free to contribute, although further ad hominem attacks are also welcome, if you prefer.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

If you look at the cumulative GPA of admitted medical students in Canada, it is way higher than those in the U.S. (...)
In the U.S, you can achieve less than a 3.5 cGPA and get admitted to medical school. In Canada, this is unheard of.

Yeah... luckily I wrote a post about this a while back, here it is:

AFAIK, all American schools gives transcripts with letter grades, not percentages like some Canadian schools. The letter grades vary greatly between courses, with some being graded with strict 90/80/70 cutoffs for A's B's and C's and some being curved. Depends on the course/professor.

AMCAS then looks at your transcript and converts the grades to a numeric GPA, sometimes differently than the transcript does. A = 4, B = 3, C = 2, etc. I think that as far as AMCAS is concerned +/- grades are A- = 3.7, B+ = 3.3, etc, regardless of how your school calculates it, but I'm not sure.

So in American schools (especially those without +/- grades) you can get 89% of the points in a course which isn't curved and get a 3.0 (3.3 if your school had half grades). According to the OMSAS conversions, that would have been a 3.9 if you had a transcript from a Canadian school such as U of T which listed 89% on it. Likewise, here you could get 79% and get a 2.0, while at U of T that would 3.30.

I'm really glad I took the time to look into this. Now I can cite this post every time some tuque-wearing hosehead comes in here and whinges about American medical school matriculants with low GPA's.

In addition to that, Canadian schools have various shenanigans that increase applicants' GPA's; for example, U of T drops your lowest grade for each year of college, Ottawa weights your more recent grades far more heavily and ignores anything older than 3 years, etc. AMCAS, on the other hand, counts every single grade you have ever received. Tellingly, the MCAT averages of Canadian schools seem to be very similar to those of American schools. If anyone has any better data about Canadian MCAT scores than the numbers found here, please post them.

As a Canadian, I understand where you all are coming from, but stow the superiority complex until you have some solid facts to back it up.

 

[McGillGrad]

I stand by my statement. Coralis claimed that there are fewer schools in Canada than in the US, when in fact proportionally they are about the same. I don't see where statistics come into it. if you have something substantial to say, please feel free to contribute, although further ad hominem attacks are also welcome, if you prefer.

You can stand by anything you like, but your argument is flawed and means absolutely nothing when comparing competitiveness of med schools.

And save your whiny victimizing for your mother...you have no idea how to use statistics. That is a fact, not a personal attack, sweetheart.😍

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Are you attached to the idea because it makes you feel better about not being accepted to a Canadian school? Or were you accepted, and thinking that it's more competitive makes you feel more proud of yourself? Either way, I understand.

 

[McGillGrad]

I sometimes wonder why people, like you, go out of their way to look really stupid. It could be a symptom of a narcissistic personality or it could just be that you're a bit slow up in the noggin.

...Watch and learn...

Here is the part where you look stupid:

Canadian acceptance rate 2006/7 --- 25%

US acceptance rate 2006 --- 44%

Once again, sweetheart, getting into medical school at a 44% success rate is EASIER than getting into medical school at a 25% success rate. Ergo, it is harder to get into a Canadian medical school.

Want me to say that R-E-A-L-L-Y slow for you or does that compute?

Are you attached to the idea because it makes you feel better about not being accepted to a Canadian school? Or were you accepted, and thinking that it's more competitive makes you feel more proud of yourself? Either way, I understand.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Canadian acceptance rate 2006/7 --- 25%

US acceptance rate 2006 --- 44%

Once again, sweetheart, getting into medical school at a 44% success rate is EASIER than getting into medical school at a 25% success rate. Ergo, it is harder to get into a Canadian medical school.

You're thinking... I like that. As you know, the Socratic method is a popular way of teaching medicine, so let me help guide you to the right answer. Please ponder the following two questions.

1. The acceptance rate at US dental schools is 42%, which is lower than the MD school acceptance rate. Is it HARDER to get into dental schools than medical schools? Why or why not?

2. Let us perform a Gedankenexperiment. Imagine, if you will, that there is a popular new medical drama on television which causes an immense upsurge of interest in medicine. The next year, 1 million college seniors apply to medical school, instead of the usual 40,000. As usual, 18,000 applicants are accepted. The acceptance rate is now an abysmal 1.8%. Was it HARDER to get into medical school that year?

 

[McGillGrad]

I like the tenacity. Sort of like those brave little guys in the Special Olympics who push themselves to their true limit, without any artificially imposed psychological barriers (that plague those who are not two standard deviations below the norm).

1. Quick note, you might want to look into something called statistical significance because 2% points is within the standard error. In other words, you are wrong again.

2. Refer to the above for standard error.

You're thinking... I like that. As you know, the Socratic method is a popular way of teaching medicine, so let me help guide you to the right answer. Please ponder the following two questions.

1. The acceptance rate at US dental schools is 42%, which is lower than the MD school acceptance rate. Is it HARDER to get into dental schools than medical schools? Why or why not?

2. Let us perform a Gedankenexperiment. Imagine, if you will, that there is a popular new medical drama on television which causes an immense upsurge of interest in medicine. The next year, 1 million college seniors apply to medical school, instead of the usual 40,000. As usual, 18,000 applicants are accepted. The acceptance rate is now an abysmal 1.8%. Was it HARDER to get into medical school that year?

 

[KeyzerSoze]

1. Quick note, you might want to look into something called statistical significance because 2% points is within the standard error. In other words, you are wrong again.

2. Refer to the above for standard error.

Okay, let's keep working on this. I wasn't looking for the pedantic answer to question 1, so let's rephrase it: Is it AS HARD to get into dental schools as it is to get into medical schools? Why or why not?

As for question 2, I'm not sure why you think 1.8% and 44% are not statistically significant. Please reread the question.

 

[McGillGrad]

Okay, let's keep working on this. I wasn't looking for the pedantic answer to question 1, so let's rephrase it: Is it AS HARD to get into dental schools as it is to get into medical schools? Why or why not?

As for question 2, I'm not sure why you think 1.8% and 44% are not statistically significant. Please reread the question.

I was watching the old Alice in Wonderland cartoon today and my thoughts drifted back to the lyrics of Jefferson Airplane's song, "White Rabbit", where she sings:

"Remember what the dormouse said : feed your head, feed your head".

Oh what a great tune!

 

[CristinaMed]

I was watching the old Alice in Wonderland cartoon today and my thoughts drifted back to the lyrics of Jefferson Airplane's song, "White Rabbit", where she sings:

"Remember what the dormouse said : feed your head, feed your head".

Oh what a great tune!

Can't argue with McGill grads. 😉

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Can't argue with McGill grads. 😉

So it would seem. Maybe we should shift to a civil conversation about who really won the War of 1812.

 

[awekcomel]

Wow...thanks for the info

 

[buffaluv]

Id like to state that Canadian grades are standardized to American grades in OMSAS and AMCAS. Having attend both an American school and Canadian school you really cant just compare grades like it was posted above. Yes an 89% in Canada is a 3.9 but it is equivilent to what a 3.9 would be in America. When I transfered schools my 3.8 from the states translated to an 86% or so in Canada (went down approx. 10%) So its not easier or harder to get the amazing grade in either country... they both end up equivalent.

 

[schrizto]

If you're not a Canadian citizen, don't bother applying to Canadian medical schools (the only exception might be if you are a US citizen and try to get into McGill).

Why is this the exception? Is McGill open to accepting US citizens?

 

[McGillGrad]

Why is this the exception? Is McGill open to accepting US citizens?

McGill has the most seats available to non-Canadians in all of Canada.

Something like 15 places, last time I checked.

 

[214758]

I have just re-read the whole thread. Splendid conversation. What a delightful piece of insight into the character of those soon to be taking care of us when we are most in need. Though I will have to side with McGillGrad, not because I am from the land of the maple tree, but because I, too, believe it is harder to get into medical schools back home than in the USofA.


McGillGrad: I loved your stingy comebacks.

 

[bronx43]

The argument of how difficult it is to get into a Canadian school is flawed unless you have information about the scores and grades of the entire applicant population. If the applicant population performs comparably on both sides of the border (and assuming that the website showing average Canadian matriculant MCAT score is accurate), then it's safe to conclude that it's more "difficult" to get into a medical school in Canada, based on the lower overall acceptance rate.
However, if the Canadian applicant population performs worse than their American counterparts, then KeyserSoze's argument is sound. Simply having more unqualified applicant will drive down the overall acceptance rate, without any insight into the true difficulty of being accepted.

 

[McGillGrad]

You make an awfully boring and crappy argument.

The argument of how difficult it is to get into a Canadian school is flawed unless you have information about the scores and grades of the entire applicant population. If the applicant population performs comparably on both sides of the border (and assuming that the website showing average Canadian matriculant MCAT score is accurate), then it's safe to conclude that it's more "difficult" to get into a medical school in Canada, based on the lower overall acceptance rate.
However, if the Canadian applicant population performs worse than their American counterparts, then KeyserSoze's argument is sound. Simply having more unqualified applicant will drive down the overall acceptance rate, without any insight into the true difficulty of being accepted.

 

[leviathan]

You make an awfully boring and crappy argument.

Sorry MG, they've made a good point that you seem to be avoiding.

 

[McGillGrad]

Sorry MG, they've made a good point that you seem to be avoiding.

There is no point to avoid. It is almost common knowledge that Canadian universities are at least of equal difficulty (if not more difficult) than the best American universities. If you add to that the ridiculously higher average GPA and MCAT scores of matriculated medical students in Canada, (vs. US med students) then you have a better understanding of why I scoffed at that last person...and why I am questioning your judgement in even bringing this up again.

For example, in order to considered in the pool of applicants to be granted an interview at McGill University, you are required to have at least a 3.5 GPA and a 30 MCAT. In addition, you are at a disadvantage if you have not been a full-time student throughout all of your undergrad and every single class is weighed equally (even if you have completed a post Bacc and/or have taken graduate courses).

That was what was expected 5-6 years ago. Who knows what they require now that it is even more competitive.

 

[Food]

You make an awfully boring and crappy argument.

And how clear it is that you are a ***** who is probably giggling happily every time you think you write a clever refute. Try not to wet your pants.

 

[Food]

You really are my type. I have a.

 

[leorl]

Please keep discussion clean and civil.

SDN Admin

 

[NoOldBoysClub]

Getting into medical school in canada is extremely difficult.
Now, im not trying to provoke anyone and im not trolling either. But how come so many canadian doctors that i have met seem unbelievably incompetend?
I used to live in several european countries and I NEVER got 3 different opinions/diagnoses from 3 different doctors.
Also I heard that a few years ago 60% of McGill medical students (i think it was McGill) didnt pass their final exams.
Which is kinda ironic...

 

[kspt7878]

Thanks for the wonderful info.