Medical Student Thinking Pharmacy - HELP

[Dr_2010]

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Hi, I don't know if anyone is in my situation but I would appreciate it very much for some input. I am currently a first year medical student (DO program). I am doing well so far (A's and B's) but the more I get to know medicine, I'm beginning to question whether or not this is right for me. I feel like i have no life (even though I do find time to go out and exercise), but for the most part my life is consumed by education (classes daily from 8-5pm), and that really depresses me. In addition, I have residency to look forward to, not to mention malpractice & hassles w/ insurance companies. I'm beginning to feel that the sacrifices are too great and not really worth the cause. I wanted more free time to experience life and don't want my entire life to revolve around education.

Anyway, I'm from CA and was thinking of applying for pharmacy schools in CA, and would love to eventually reside in San Francisco area. I would love to attend UCSF (want to be closer to family) though I know it's extremely competitive. I graduated from UCLA w/ 3.6 in biochemistry and haven't taken the PCAT. I had numerous volunteering experiences in a hospital setting, including various leadership skills.

My question is what can I do improve my Pharmcas application, especially for UCSF? Also, if anyone is attending pharmacy schools and would like to share their experiences with me, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks all for the responses and good luck!

 

[Dr.Biassi]

I can tell you one thing. You are already good for that farmacy school. Your GPA is very competitive and I think USCT do not require PCAT. Your application will look good since you are in Med school. But does it worth it to abandon medicine and go to pharmacy school? I'm pretty sure after 7 years of school you will be done with the rigor of medical school and residency. You can work and enjoy your life!!!!

 

[gsinccom]

just a heads up in case you do go forward with the switch: UCSF doesn't require the PCAT.

 

[janeno]

Well the first question is how do you know that pharmacy will be right for you? Pharmacy school might be a little bit less stressful than medical school, but you will still need to spend a lot of time studying especially if you want to attend a school like UCSF (there is a reason why it is #1 in the nation). Pharmacy school is the same length as medical school, so you will still spend quite the same time in school. The only difference is that you are not required to do residency for pharmacy. I think you should really think about all pros and cons before deciding if you want to leave medicine. If the only reason you want to attend pharmacy school is because you think it is easier than med school, I do not think this is enough reason to switch from medicine to pharmacy. Pharmacists and doctors have different roles in the health care, and you should decide which role you would rather have after finishing your education because studying will be hard for both fields.

About you acceptance chances: You have a very solid educational and experiential background; I think you will be able to get into some school. However, you might need to explain the admission committee why you are leaving medical school and why you want to do pharmacy.

 

[eddie269]

Interview question #1 and #2: How do you know pharmacy is the career for you and how do we know you won't abandon pharmacy like you did medicine?

 

[pharmtastic]

Your schedule (8-5 pm) sounds just like my own schedule for pharmacy school. I'm only a P1 and I'm already studying my butt off. No time for anything outside classroom, maybe except for the holiday. AND speaking of Residency, YES it is not required for pharm school RIGHT NOW. But do you know that the AACP (which accredits pharm schools) already has a VISION that by the year 2015, residency will be required for pharmacy practice??? What that means is: if that vision happens to be true, those of us who graduate before 2015 (and didnt do residency) will have very little chance to advance in our career. That's because we cant compete with the future PharmD's who all have residency. Will that vision become true??? I believe so. Remember a long time ago when there was a vision that PharmD only would be allowed to practice (and not BSPharm anymore). That became true, didnt it??? Anyway, just my 2 cents......

 

[Bill_252001]

Hi, I don't know if anyone is in my situation but I would appreciate it very much for some input. I am currently a first year medical student (DO program). I am doing well so far (A's and B's) but the more I get to know medicine, I'm beginning to question whether or not this is right for me. I feel like i have no life (even though I do find time to go out and exercise), but for the most part my life is consumed by education (classes daily from 8-5pm), and that really depresses me. In addition, I have residency to look forward to, not to mention malpractice & hassles w/ insurance companies. I'm beginning to feel that the sacrifices are too great and not really worth the cause. I wanted more free time to experience life and don't want my entire life to revolve around education.

Anyway, I'm from CA and was thinking of applying for pharmacy schools in CA, and would love to eventually reside in San Francisco area. I would love to attend UCSF (want to be closer to family) though I know it's extremely competitive. I graduated from UCLA w/ 3.6 in biochemistry and haven't taken the PCAT. I had numerous volunteering experiences in a hospital setting, including various leadership skills.

My question is what can I do improve my Pharmcas application, especially for UCSF? Also, if anyone is attending pharmacy schools and would like to share their experiences with me, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks all for the responses and good luck!

Actually, I went the other way. I am accepted into Pharmacy school for Fall 2007 but at the same time I am also accepted into DO program for Fall 2007. I have decided to pursue Fall 2007. To me it's not about the quality of life or the amount of money i make, it's about what I really enjoy doing. But I would say that with your background, you have a strong application and if you decide to take PCAT, i am sure u will ace it because from my personal experience if you can get through MCAT, PCAT Is like walk in the park on a sunny day. So, i am sure you will get accepted in pharmacy school of your choice. Good luck in what ever you decide to do..

 

[PharmDstudent]

I've heard that it's a good idea to finish one program before you start another. I don't want you to think that you're stuck, but you should probably stay in med school until you get accepted into a pharmacy program. The only problem with switching schools like this is that you will spend more money than other pharmD students.
One good thing though, you don't have to do a pharmacy residency immediately after you finish school. You can take a break and pick up a residency a few years down the road.

 

[gsinccom]

Your schedule (8-5 pm) sounds just like my own schedule for pharmacy school. I'm only a P1 and I'm already studying my butt off. No time for anything outside classroom, maybe except for the holiday. AND speaking of Residency, YES it is not required for pharm school RIGHT NOW. But do you know that the AACP (which accredits pharm schools) already has a VISION that by the year 2015, residency will be required for pharmacy practice??? What that means is: if that vision happens to be true, those of us who graduate before 2015 (and didnt do residency) will have very little chance to advance in our career. That's because we cant compete with the future PharmD's who all have residency. Will that vision become true??? I believe so. Remember a long time ago when there was a vision that PharmD only would be allowed to practice (and not BSPharm anymore). That became true, didnt it??? Anyway, just my 2 cents......

huh?

BSPharm=RPh practices just like a PharmD!

 

[rxlynn]

Your schedule (8-5 pm) sounds just like my own schedule for pharmacy school. I'm only a P1 and I'm already studying my butt off. No time for anything outside classroom, maybe except for the holiday. AND speaking of Residency, YES it is not required for pharm school RIGHT NOW. But do you know that the AACP (which accredits pharm schools) already has a VISION that by the year 2015, residency will be required for pharmacy practice??? What that means is: if that vision happens to be true, those of us who graduate before 2015 (and didnt do residency) will have very little chance to advance in our career. That's because we cant compete with the future PharmD's who all have residency. Will that vision become true??? I believe so. Remember a long time ago when there was a vision that PharmD only would be allowed to practice (and not BSPharm anymore). That became true, didnt it??? Anyway, just my 2 cents......

Well - I think we are longer than 2015 from that, partly because there would be a severe shortage of residency sites available. I find it difficult to believe that we will ever get to the point where you need a residency to do community retail pharmacy - there are many who think that even the PharmD is overkill for that position. And, yes - I know there is a lot of talk and movement towards MTM programs, but my observation in the last 6 years of retail experience is that chain pharmacy is a LONG way away from embracing or even tolerating MTM as a daily part of the routine in a retail environment.

 

[pharmtastic]

huh?

BSPharm=RPh practices just like a PharmD!

That's right!!!! except that if you're a BSPharm then it's hard to compete with PharmD if you want to switch job. Most employers nowadays state sth like this:
Minimum requirement: BSPharm or PharmD (PharmD preferred)

 

[DC80]

I've heard that it's a good idea to finish one program before you start another. I don't want you to think that you're stuck, but you should probably stay in med school until you get accepted into a pharmacy program.

Just remember microeconomic theory says that when making rational decisions, one should not take sunk costs into account.

An example is using the justification of saying that you already spent all that money and time to attend DO school and you should just complete the DO degree or time and money would be wasted. Unless you want a DO degree and a PharmD, or you think that another year of DO school will perhaps make you a more competitive applicant and get you closer to the PharmD, it is not a rational decision to continue in DO school if all you really want is a PharmD degree.

If I bought a season pass for skiing early but the season turns out to be crappy I could be in two positions:
1. Paid for the ticket. Go skiing and have a crappy time.
2. Paid for the ticket. Do something more fun.
Either way I paid for the ticket. This is a sunk cost. The question now is what will increase my utility more, having a crappy time skiing or doing something more fun. The better choice is number 2.

What good is it to spend another year in medical school if you're only going to apply to pharmacy school the next year? You will have spent two years in med school and gotten into a pharmacy school vs. spending one year in med school and getting into pharmacy school. Ask yourself whether the benefits of completing another year of DO school outweigh the costs. The opportunity cost of attending DO school is that you could be spending your time doing something pharmacy related that may increase your chances of being a pharmacist in the future.

 

[DC80]

I feel like i have no life (even though I do find time to go out and exercise), but for the most part my life is consumed by education (classes daily from 8-5pm), and that really depresses me.

Also, the first two years of pharmacy school are also tough and you also may not have a life there either. You may want to ask some pharmacy students if they have a life or not before you make your decision.

 

[PharmDstudent]

Just remember microeconomic theory says that when making rational decisions, one should not take sunk costs into account.

An example is using the justification of saying that you already spent all that money and time to attend DO school and you should just complete the DO degree or time and money would be wasted. Unless you want a DO degree and a PharmD, or you think that another year of DO school will perhaps make you a more competitive applicant and get you closer to the PharmD, it is not a rational decision to continue in DO school if all you really want is a PharmD degree.

If I bought a season pass for skiing early but the season turns out to be crappy I could be in two positions:
1. Paid for the ticket. Go skiing and have a crappy time.
2. Paid for the ticket. Do something more fun.
Either way I paid for the ticket. This is a sunk cost. The question now is what will increase my utility more, having a crappy time skiing or doing something more fun. The better choice is number 2.

What good is it to spend another year in medical school if you're only going to apply to pharmacy school the next year? You will have spent two years in med school and gotten into a pharmacy school vs. spending one year in med school and getting into pharmacy school. Ask yourself whether the benefits of completing another year of DO school outweigh the costs. The opportunity cost of attending DO school is that you could be spending your time doing something pharmacy related that may increase your chances of being a pharmacist in the future.

Eddie269 knows what's up!

 

[sdn1977]

Hi, I don't know if anyone is in my situation but I would appreciate it very much for some input. I am currently a first year medical student (DO program). I am doing well so far (A's and B's) but the more I get to know medicine, I'm beginning to question whether or not this is right for me. I feel like i have no life (even though I do find time to go out and exercise), but for the most part my life is consumed by education (classes daily from 8-5pm), and that really depresses me. In addition, I have residency to look forward to, not to mention malpractice & hassles w/ insurance companies. I'm beginning to feel that the sacrifices are too great and not really worth the cause. I wanted more free time to experience life and don't want my entire life to revolve around education.

Anyway, I'm from CA and was thinking of applying for pharmacy schools in CA, and would love to eventually reside in San Francisco area. I would love to attend UCSF (want to be closer to family) though I know it's extremely competitive. I graduated from UCLA w/ 3.6 in biochemistry and haven't taken the PCAT. I had numerous volunteering experiences in a hospital setting, including various leadership skills.

My question is what can I do improve my Pharmcas application, especially for UCSF? Also, if anyone is attending pharmacy schools and would like to share their experiences with me, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks all for the responses and good luck!

Dr2010....I can appreciate your dilemma. However...I'd like you to think of a couple of things...

For all the professional doctoral programs, most of them are the same (I went to UCSF & we took all our first & some of our second year classes with MD & DDS students).

So...you're academic issues will be the same - no life - or so you perceive.

Could it be you are just tired of school? Do you perhaps think about the future as a complete "block" of time - the whole residency/practice thing all at once?

At this stage in your career or career development, your education must be incorporated into your life. I can speak about it from some experience. Both my husband & I graduated from UCSF - he in dentistry & me in pharmacy. When our daughter indicated she was interested in medicine, she was concerned about the length of time it took her to complete her training. However...at that point....education becomes your job. You make time for your job (& yes....when your in residency, that "day" can extend 36 hours), but you do get time off & it does end.

On the practical side....I've been a hospital pharmacist for along time....I work holidays (I've never had both Thanksgiving & Christmas off until very recently) & I get called back in many times during the night.

Think about what it is that makes you want to be a physician. Do you prefer the investigation of symptoms & ultimate diagnosis & disposition (either surgical, admit for an ER person, or long-term as in FM) or do you prefer the education & dispensing of medications to patients. They are widely different professions.

Your lifestyle will be what you want it to be. The first year of any professional school is not indicative of what the ultimate choice you make of residency.

Perhaps, before you jump to any conclusions, you might want to go talk to one of your advisors. Rather than jump out of medicine...you could take a semester or year off, which is not at all uncommon to really decide, without pressure, where your actual interests lie.

I don't want to discourage you from either one....just take enough time & thought to really think through any choices you might make.

Best of luck!

 

[Dr_2010]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. Sorry I couldn't get back sooner.

Thanks sdn1977, for the insightful input. I have been questioning my being in med school since week 1. However, after one semester, I still feel the same. I have been talking to faculty and a career counselor and they did provide some valuable input, just like many of you have.

Someone did post a great question: how do i know I will enjoy pharmacy? I guessi really don't, but i know that righ tnow i'm not happy in medicine. I just learned in my medical jurisdiction class that when you're a doctor, anything you do can become a liability, even if it is done out of good will (the common law supercedes the good samaritan law). Not only that, malpractice insurance can be as high as $150k, and there is also a thing called Tail Coverage, which is insurance you have to buy after you retire in case someone decides to sue you about a case you treated years ago!

Medicine is more than simply treating a patient nowadays. On top of that, Im finding myself not enjoying my physical diagnosis class, and the fact that there are so many gray areas and uncertainties in medicine is somewhat of a nuisance. I know I like science, and helping and counseling people. Pharmacy is appealing to me at this point because it is like medicine but without the diagnosis & treatment, extra stress and insurance redtape. But I do need to explore the field more.

Thanks again everyone for their valuable time and input. Good luck!

 

[Moxxie]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond. Sorry I couldn't get back sooner.

Thanks sdn1977, for the insightful input. I have been questioning my being in med school since week 1. However, after one semester, I still feel the same. I have been talking to faculty and a career counselor and they did provide some valuable input, just like many of you have.

Someone did post a great question: how do i know I will enjoy pharmacy? I guessi really don't, but i know that righ tnow i'm not happy in medicine. I just learned in my medical jurisdiction class that when you're a doctor, anything you do can become a liability, even if it is done out of good will (the common law supercedes the good samaritan law). Not only that, malpractice insurance can be as high as $150k, and there is also a thing called Tail Coverage, which is insurance you have to buy after you retire in case someone decides to sue you about a case you treated years ago!

Medicine is more than simply treating a patient nowadays. On top of that, Im finding myself not enjoying my physical diagnosis class, and the fact that there are so many gray areas and uncertainties in medicine is somewhat of a nuisance. I know I like science, and helping and counseling people. Pharmacy is appealing to me at this point because it is like medicine but without the diagnosis & treatment, extra stress and insurance redtape. But I do need to explore the field more.

Thanks again everyone for their valuable time and input. Good luck!

Just wanted to make one point - there's plenty of insurance red tape - but not malpractice insurance. Most retail pharmacists will have to deal with many more health insurance issues than any doctor ever will.

Good luck on whatever you decide!

 

[AnonFaculty]

Just wanted to make one point - there's plenty of insurance red tape - but not malpractice insurance. Most retail pharmacists will have to deal with many more health insurance issues than any doctor ever will.

Good luck on whatever you decide!

As a faculty member, I have no commitment to work weekends or holidays, a relatively flexible schedule,and a decent salary. However, because I love my research, I spent much more than the tradtional 40 hours a week on my projects, teaching and advising. I guess I just love what I do. You have to find the same thing. Pharmacy school, as the other posters have said, is no walk in the park. My advice? Stay in school and see it out.