Medical Students with DUI's

[klmnop]

In North Carolina, which is where I've lived for the majority of my 16+ life, you can be charged with a DUI even without a BAC over .08 which is our legal driving limit. I'm not sure about all states, but I'm pretty sure we're not the only one like this. That's what the trial is for in a lot of cases. Some people get out of DUIs, it's not because they were all dead guilty of it at the time.

Fyi, I'm not talking about the morality of drunk driving. Just the reality of the laws that are in place.

the law is an interesting beast. i have a feeling a lot of these charges don't stick with a half-decent lawyer

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[kia ora]

i believe you can be pulled over for a dui, but if your bac is below you would be charged with reckless or careless driving. if you fail three sobriety tests usually you are considered impaired, regardless of a blood test. i understand you can get pulled over for dui without drinking at all or under some sort of chemical influence, but i don't see how you can be charged with this after the facts come in (unless sobriety tests were failed). as soon as they rule it out they will charge you for the original offense you were pulled over for that caused the suspicion.

I haven't read the DUI statutes for any state other than the one in which I live, but in this state (and likely in others) one *can* be charged with and convicted of DUI even if a BAC test registers below the legal limit (0.08 here). this is because the statute contains alternatives: one may be convicted if *either* his BAC is at/over the legal limit, *or* if he was "affected by" alcohol (or another controlled substance; marijuana or prescription pills are usually involved). there are several ways to show that a driver was "affected by" the alcohol or whatever, including but not limited to the driving (crossed the centerline, ran lights/stop signs, swerved, etc.) and results of field sobriety tests.

as for refusing the BAC and requesting a blood draw instead, I don't recall exactly but I'm fairly certain that here that is not an option. the only time a blood draw is used is if there was a car accident (and the suspect is being taken to the hospital anyway, and/or is unconscious) or if the arresting officer suspects that the driver is affected by something other than alcohol (i.e., drugs).

and I have never heard of anyone being convicted of DUI for being sleep-deprived, that is ridiculous

 

[JoshUNCW]

the law is an interesting beast. i have a feeling a lot of these charges don't stick with a half-decent lawyer

They don't. But that's why we have the judicial system. I'm just saying a DUI charge isn't always as clear cut as some of the SDNers want it to be.

 

[klmnop]

They don't. But that's why we have the judicial system. I'm just saying a DUI charge isn't always as clear cut as some of the SDNers want it to be.

well obviously the conviction is what matters
some secondaries may want charges, cinci's wanted all traffic incidents (including tickets), though ultimately a conviction is exponentially worse than a mere charge.... but should you have to report a charge, it can't help, especially since felony charges most certainly appear on criminal background checks

 

[JoshUNCW]

well obviously the conviction is what matters
some secondaries may want charges, cinci's wanted all traffic incidents (including tickets), though ultimately a conviction is exponentially worse than a mere charge.... but should you have to report a charge, it can't help, especially since felony charges most certainly appear on criminal background checks

And that's what sucks. Some, not all, applications ask if you've ever been charged with something. I don't necessarily think that's fair because a charge /= conviction. But this is also why people are allowed to write as much as they want about the circumstances around their charge/conviction. I know at some schools, the Brody School of Medical Education being an example, actually say that they don't look at your charges/convictions when deciding if you should be admitted. The adcoms are blind to that. But once you get "accepted", there's a separate committee that looks at your paper and decides if your charge warrants your acceptance from going through.

 

[searun]

In North Carolina, which is where I've lived for the majority of my 16+ life, you can be charged with a DUI even without a BAC over .08 which is our legal driving limit. I'm not sure about all states, but I'm pretty sure we're not the only one like this. That's what the trial is for in a lot of cases. Some people get out of DUIs, it's not because they were all dead guilty of it at the time.

Fyi, I'm not talking about the morality of drunk driving. Just the reality of the laws that are in place.

Grasshopper, my father is a criminal defense attorney. He indicates that prosecutors win about 95 percent of the cases that are litigated. Many are resolved with plea negotiations, where the defendants plead guilty for lesser sentences, but most defendants who go to trial get hammered. Sorry, Grasshopper, but this is reality.

And, Grasshopper, a DUI is a big mountain to climb if you are a med school applicant.

 

[klmnop]

And that's what sucks. Some, not all, applications ask if you've ever been charged with something. I don't necessarily think that's fair because a charge /= conviction. But this is also why people are allowed to write as much as they want about the circumstances around their charge/conviction. I know at some schools, the Brody School of Medical Education being an example, actually say that they don't look at your charges/convictions when deciding if you should be admitted. The adcoms are blind to that. But once you get "accepted", there's a separate committee that looks at your paper and decides if your charge warrants your acceptance from going through.

it is a bit unfair, but obviously the committees at those schools feel that there are enough good applicants who haven't had the misfortune of putting themselves in questionable situations, which is their right.. and this is not unfair

it makes sense. no school wants to pay to educate a future potential threat to society... doesn't exactly promote a positive reputation, nor does it live up to the mission of medical schools. medical schools are essentially employers for their medical students as students are trained in hospitals and have malpractice insurance costs. if i were an employer criminal charges and convictions would be of the utmost importance to me.

the way i see it, as a convicted offender (and of course there are some truly innocent) you have waived several rights and privileges that law-abiding citizens value, one of these being the trust of future behavior of employers

this is turning philosophical

 

[JoshUNCW]

Grasshopper, my father is a criminal defense attorney. He indicates that prosecutors win about 95 percent of the cases that are litigated. Many are resolved with plea negotiations, where the defendants plead guilty for lesser sentences, but most defendants who go to trial get hammered. Sorry, Grasshopper, but this is reality.

And, Grasshopper, a DUI is a big mountain to climb if you are a med school applicant.

Haha, I'm glad you said you were the son of a lawyer. It makes sense. Have fun bro.

 

[opheracco]

Well, yeah, three years of med school, with many friends in med schools around the country, probably trumps a kid who has never been to med school in his life, so I suppose so. I probably do have a better perspective than you do, at this point in your life, on these issues. My perspective is probably flawed, we are all flawed aren't we, but my advice is likely to be more helpful than your own on these issues, because I am a little further down the road, and I am trying to help the folks.

Do I have perfect clarity on med school admissions. No, but the odds are, I know alot more about this than you do.

Be a little bit more humble, Grasshopper! It will serve you well.

You are arrogant. I wouldn't put a single toe through the door to your clinic.

 

[guitarguy23]

I know of a guy who got into a very good medical school with a DUI on his record. Soo there you go.

 

[searun]

You are arrogant. I wouldn't put a single toe through the door to your clinic.

Really? Darn, now I will never be able pay off my med school loans!

 

[searun]

I know of a guy who got into a very good medical school with a DUI on his record. Soo there you go.

I never said that it is impossible to get into med school with a DUI on your record. My point is that it substantially lowers your chances of success. That is reality. I find it funny how many people on this forum refuse to accept reality.

 

[Zaibatsu]

If the original criminal is still reading this I offer hope. My friend and myself ran from the cops and were caught last summer. We had previously been accepted to school, however the admissions committee decided to simply defer us for a year rather than rescinding the acceptance. With a little humility, a couple medical mission trips under our belts, and an unbelievable amount of patience, we will start school this fall.

 

[premed67783]

If anyone still cares: my charge was reduced to a reckless driving. Still not great, but epicly better than a DUI. No action from the DMV either except for 2 points on my driving record.

 

[Art Vandalais]

If anyone still cares: my charge was reduced to a reckless driving. Still not great, but epicly better than a DUI. No action from the DMV either except for 2 points on my driving record.

That's great news, dude. Good luck, hope you learn from this in the future (not preaching here, I was charged with a DUI 5 yrs ago although it was dropped...the lesson is to follow the rules, take a cab or hassle your friends for a ride home next time).

 

[SitraAchra]

Well, yeah, three years of med school, with many friends in med schools around the country, probably trumps a kid who has never been to med school in his life, so I suppose so. I probably do have a better perspective than you do, at this point in your life, on these issues. My perspective is probably flawed, we are all flawed aren't we, but my advice is likely to be more helpful than your own on these issues, because I am a little further down the road, and I am trying to help the folks.

Do I have perfect clarity on med school admissions. No, but the odds are, I know alot more about this than you do.

Be a little bit more humble, Grasshopper! It will serve you well.

Shut. Up.

 

[SitraAchra]

If anyone still cares: my charge was reduced to a reckless driving. Still not great, but epicly better than a DUI. No action from the DMV either except for 2 points on my driving record.

Sincere congrats man, I am certain you learned from it and hope you end up where you want to be.

 

[chasincam]

You should try Tahoe. Better than British Columbia.

Tahoe is beautiful, but unless you've hiked Vancouver Island and seen the entire Canadian Rockies, Cascades, Olympics, Straight of Juan de Fuca, Puget SOund and Mt. Raineer all at the SAME time, you're missing out.

I haven't been to too many places in the world, but I've been to Tahoe and Beautiful BC, and BC is by far capable of offering the most breath taking views. Most people actually never get to see it either because it can be most pretty in the fall when tourism is way down.

You should go!

 

[theVster]

Shut. Up.

 

[tweek125]

And that's what sucks. Some, not all, applications ask if you've ever been charged with something. I don't necessarily think that's fair because a charge /= conviction. But this is also why people are allowed to write as much as they want about the circumstances around their charge/conviction. I know at some schools, the Brody School of Medical Education being an example, actually say that they don't look at your charges/convictions when deciding if you should be admitted. The adcoms are blind to that. But once you get "accepted", there's a separate committee that looks at your paper and decides if your charge warrants your acceptance from going through.

Ah sweet, I didn't know that about Brody. Pretty awesome since that's where I'd like to eventually end up.

and SitraAchra deserves a medal of some sort.

 

[Quik]

I find it funny how many people on this forum refuse to accept reality.

Reality is, that you're an incredible douche-bag.

Now, can you accept that?

 

[gettheleadout]

Reality is, that you're an incredible douche-bag.

Now, can you accept that?

Bump months old thread to call someone a douchebag?

Great!

 

[apumic]

Reality is, that you're an incredible douche-bag.

Now, can you accept that?

somehow...I get the feeling it takes one to know one here....

 

[jeffro1080]

drinking and driving is bad.

 

[gettheleadout]

drinking and driving is bad.

 

[MediCynical]

I didn't really read any of this thread, but I would like to add something:

I disclosed a Misdemeanor Careless Driving on my AMCAS which resulted from a drinking & driving offense (my BAC was over the limit, but the charges were reduced from DUI to Careless Driving). I explained the situation on AMCAS (which happened just over 3 years ago) and was very honest about it - most importantly, I explained what I learned from it.

4 days ago I received my first acceptance, and it is to an allopathic school that ranks high on my list. I'm extremely thankful, and I recognize the way that this horrible experience contributed to my growth as a person.

It is possible to get in despite these charges, but it takes a lot of time, effort, and tears. I felt hopeless at many times, but I kept moving step by step towards my goal.

FYI, out of the 3 interviews I've had so far(well, 5 if you count all the different people I've interviewed with), only ONE asked about it. And that's the school I got into.

Good luck. If you really want med school, you will achieve it.

 

[Flower70954]

Hey OP, sorry to hear about your DUI. I too received a DUI right before the medical school cycle - I re-parked my car in front of a bar one parking space forward so that I could get an extra 2 hours of street parking. I was able to make it past the AMCAS primary since I was yet to be convicted, but then my DUI mill lawyer just plead me guilty right before my secondaries so I had to discuss it then. My stats were still good enough to get me a few interviews at some decent schools, but most adcom committees and even I must agree that applying to medical school with such a recent criminal conviction is pretty insane. Hell, I only applied last cycle because I have a crazy Chinese mother that threatened to disown me unless I applied.

I know that it's probably not what you want to hear, but you don't really have a shot this cycle unless your stats are amazing, and even then it will be tough. I would wait at least a year. I am planning to do a PhD or J.D. program since many PhD's don't criminal background check at all and I have had friends with 2 DUI's and other ridiculous misdemeanors get into law school no problem- they really don't give a **** there I swear. Your other option is to get your DUI expunged, which requires payment of all fines, satisfaction of your probation period (3 years here in California), and then attending a 3-month DUI school. Afterwards you can legally say on job and school applications that you were never convicted of a crime. However, you must disclose all convictions, even expunged, to a state licensing board- i.e. this will come up again on your residency. Hopefully this will motivate you to perform very well in medical school so you can write this off as a stupid experience.

Honestly, when I was in DUI school, people got arrested for the most ridiculous things. One of my classmates was arrested for riding a fricking horse. Another one of my classmates was asleep in the backseat of his car and the keys were in his glove box. DUI's are just incredibly over-hyped in this country.

Hi , I just wanted to say that I actually emailed the Florida medical licensing board and asked about expungements and they specifically said "expungements are not counted against you , it's as if it never happened if it's expunged " hope that helps !

 

[MrChance2]

Some of the best students and in my opinion best future doctors in my class have DUI/drug convictions. What I believe from this is:

1. They probably would have gotten into more schools without these on record
2. People can change.

 

[The_Knickstape]

Grasshopper, my father is a criminal defense attorney. He indicates that prosecutors win about 95 percent of the cases that are litigated. Many are resolved with plea negotiations, where the defendants plead guilty for lesser sentences, but most defendants who go to trial get hammered. Sorry, Grasshopper, but this is reality.

And, Grasshopper, a DUI is a big mountain to climb if you are a med school applicant.

Just reading through this entire thread and once I got to this comment I had to sign in and say this... From the way you speak so condescendingly and the way you always need to be right - you seem to be on the path to becoming the type of physician I despise. The know-it-all doctor who won't listen to anyone because why? I'm in medical school (not even a doctor yet), I am right! My dad is a lawyer, everything you say is wrong and makes me right! My cousin is a cop and said that can't happen so your wrong! I've met zero people that have DUI's in med school so that can't be possible! (are you even a medical student? since when does anecdotal evidence make statements undeniably credible). Give it a rest you egotistical prick and get off of the guys back, everyone is entitled to give their opinion. Even if you do know it all, which I highly doubt, you have no right to walk around stomping on people who are giving their god damn opinion about a topic.

Is this how you are going to treat your patients that say something that you don't agree with? Award them for being the most ignorant person around and then call them names? I've met a lot of great doctors in my life, but have also met my fair share of stuck up, know it all physicians and nothing is worse than walking out of their office feeling like a piece of trash that doesn't receive any shred of sympathy from the person whom you are seeking for medical attention and comfort. I understand that this is a forum, but if you really are a third year medical student then I pity the patients that will come to you in the future with an adverse opinion you don't agree with. Honestly, I should be thanking you for showing me a perfect example of the physician I DON'T want to become.


EDIT: Had no idea this thread was years old I was searching about this because I was having a conversation with a buddy of mine who was applying to school and we were curious. OP, in honor of your original request I apologize I just could not help myself this guy pissed me off beyond belief. It's great to hear that you ended up getting out alive and I hope you are still on the path to becoming a physician! If you want it bad enough you will get their no matter how long it takes. God speed my friend.

 

[Testill]

I started a thread a couple days ago asking advice about a possible DUI conviction. For those who haven't read it. . . I was charged with a DUI recently and im scared to death about how this will affect my acceptance into medical school.

I'd like to hear from people with DUI records that did get accepted into medical school and what your experience was with that.

Edit: As a sidenote, please do not post here if your purpose is to berate me or anyone with a DUI. I know it was a mistake and I have learned from it. Thank you.

Were you able to get into medical school? Id really be interested to see how everything went for you! I just found myself in the same boat