Medicine as career for your kids

[Birdstrike]

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My daughter is 17 and applying to college. For the longest time she was adamantly undecided on career. All of a sudden, not only is she saying she wants to go to medical school, she’s applying to an accelerated pre-med to MD program (7 years combined, med school acceptance guaranteed, no MCAT needed). Her GPA and SAT are very, very high.

I have never once told her to do Medicine and in fact have encouraged her to think widely about very diverse career options.

What should I tell her?

 

[skougess]

Support her if she is interested in it. Our jobs suck. So does everyone else’s. At least we get paid.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

Disclaimer that I’m younger and don’t actually have kids.

I don’t think I would steer my kids away from medicine entirely if that’s what they want to do but I would probably steer them away from a field that requires 24/7 in-house coverage which you could give them honest advice about when the time comes.

 

[wysdoc]

My daughter is 17 and applying to college. For the longest time she was adamantly undecided on career. All of a sudden, not only is she saying she wants to go to medical school, she’s applying to an accelerated pre-med to MD program (7 years combined, med school acceptance guaranteed, no MCAT needed). Her GPA and SAT are very, very high.

I have never once told her to do Medicine and in fact have encouraged her to think widely about very diverse career options.

What should I tell her?

Tell her not to be discouraged if she doesn’t get in to the BS/MD program. Very small % are accepted.
If she does get in, some of those are pretty intense and will expect the kids to do activities in the summers too. Help her keep her fun interests and her chance to be a kid, in balance with the path to med school

 

[3rdJob]

I have a daughter finishing up med school this year. She was absolutely fully informed of the risks/benefits of this career; both by me and also colleagues. Early on, wanted to do Emergency Medicine. Averted that potential career train wreck with an intervention and (again) helpful colleagues, thank you folks. Going into Internal Medicine. She's resigned to working like a dog to pay offer her loans after residency (~3-5 years) and then being free and clear.

Asking your helpful colleagues into the medicine career counseling does help. After all, I'm just 'Dad' and what do I know? 😉

I guess it DOES take a village.......

 

[GassYous]

It's a stable career. People will always be sick and you will always be able to put food on the table.

I wouldn't encourage my children but if they wanted to do it I would be supportive.

 

[cyanide12345678]

My daughter is 17 and applying to college. For the longest time she was adamantly undecided on career. All of a sudden, not only is she saying she wants to go to medical school, she’s applying to an accelerated pre-med to MD program (7 years combined, med school acceptance guaranteed, no MCAT needed). Her GPA and SAT are very, very high.

I have never once told her to do Medicine and in fact have encouraged her to think widely about very diverse career options.

What should I tell her?

I personally wouldn’t tell my kids to go into medicine, but if both my daughters wanted to do it, id try to steer them towards what i believe are excellent specialties.

And you own your own practice right Bird? If your kid did a pain fellowship, they would walk into a golden ticket - established practice, and as you wind down, they will take over - without the very large sum of starting a new practice. It’s a golden ticket you could offer your children if they go into pain.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

I would not encourage it personally. Maybe a select few specialties? Derm, plastics, ortho? I dunno. Who knows what will be the popular thing 10 years from now.

My daughter says "Daddy helps sick people."

If it were the job I thought it was going to be (moderate amount of respect, chance to do complex problem solving, help most patients I encountered), even with less of an income, I would say yes, definitely.

Sure it's financially stable, but there's other career paths out there that require way less debt, less hard work, less sacrifice in exchange for comfortable pay, no slave labor (residency), and less abuse from the people you serve.

Even more concerning is the fact you have a daughter. Our profession really doesn't do a good job helping women navigate a medical career and family life.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Jobs that I would encourage my children to explore if they were interested in medicine:

CRNA, perfusionist, ultrasonographer

 

[namethatsmell]

Like others I wouldn’t encourage them to, but if they still wanted to *after hearing all my bitching* then sure I’d support them.

There are a few fields I would actively counsel them against (where I think they’d be most likely taking advantage of), and a few I’d recommend they check out… but this, too has to be their decision.

I don’t think of myself as foolishly optimistic, but at the rate of decay of medicine and physician attrition at a time as we’re seeing / expecting increasing patient volumes there *may* be a reckoning coming in maybe next 10-20 years where the docs still practicing see a much improved experience of being a physician.
Then again, things can always get worse lol

 

[Porfirio]

I hope my daughters do better than me. Let them own a business or something more exciting where the ceiling is not glass.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

My daughter is 17 and applying to college. For the longest time she was adamantly undecided on career. All of a sudden, not only is she saying she wants to go to medical school, she’s applying to an accelerated pre-med to MD program (7 years combined, med school acceptance guaranteed, no MCAT needed). Her GPA and SAT are very, very high.

I have never once told her to do Medicine and in fact have encouraged her to think widely about very diverse career options.

What should I tell her?

I’ll buck the trend here a bit.

I think medicine *can* be a good career choice, with some conditions…you need to pick a decent specialty with reasonable hours and good pay, you need to try to minimize your debt in getting through the training process (BS/MD is a great way to do this - I would have loved two less years of time and expense spent training), and you need to set boundaries once you are done with training and you’re working your job. You also need to choose a job that will compensate you appropriately for your opportunity cost in training, as well as the immense amount of effort and stress that goes into this doctor thing (read: not academia).

I’m reasonably happy with medicine…probably my biggest beef with it was the long and extremely expensive training process. (I’ll also note that I’m a rheumatologist, not an ER doc). Whenever I start griping, I do remember that a lot of people out there - both white and blue collar - work at least as hard for much crappier pay, often under worse conditions. This doesn’t mean medicine is perfect with regards to these things - far from it - but it does mean that the grass is not necessarily greener elsewhere. I know guys my age from college who are working on Wall Street, and their schedules suck mightily. The idea that I can pull $500k working 4.5 days a week with weekends and nights off almost does not compute to them. Biglaw jobs suck hard too. One of the things that I like about medicine is that it is much more “egalitarian” with regards to training. You can go to pretty much any US medical school, and any residency, and as long as you do well and choose the right field, you can make money. This is not true in law and finance, where pedigree is extremely important and where the places that pay big $$$ will often not even talk to you if you didn’t go to the Ivy League, or other elite schools. There is no easy path to an upper middle class lifestyle in America anymore (if there ever was). Pick your poison, and if you like medicine and can keep it from taking over your entire life, go for it.

In terms of the genders as well as family life and work/life balance: the majority of people starting medical school now are women. The profession does a very poor job of helping anyone, male or female, figure out the work/life balance thing. This is not just a problem for women in medicine, this is a massive issue with the profession at large. I would recommend anyone looking to go into medicine learn not to make being a physician their entire identity - and once they are out of training, that they become comfortable with politely but firmly setting boundaries around the job.

 

[TexasMed22]

Absolutely would encourage my kids to go into medicine (assuming they enjoy the material). I would just advise them to pick a specialty with solid compensation and few/no true overnight emergencies (see derm, hem onc, radiology, etc). Medicine is hard but rewarding. There are few others careers where you can work 4 days a week and make >400k. Plus you get to help people

 

[DetroitERDO]

As a female doctor I would just have one stipulation….freeze her eggs at 22.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

I’ll buck the trend here a bit.

I think medicine *can* be a good career choice, with some conditions…you need to pick a decent specialty with reasonable hours and good pay, you need to try to minimize your debt in getting through the training process (BS/MD is a great way to do this - I would have loved two less years of time and expense spent training), and you need to set boundaries once you are done with training and you’re working your job. You also need to choose a job that will compensate you appropriately for your opportunity cost in training, as well as the immense amount of effort and stress that goes into this doctor thing (read: not academia).

I’m reasonably happy with medicine…probably my biggest beef with it was the long and extremely expensive training process. (I’ll also note that I’m a rheumatologist, not an ER doc). Whenever I start griping, I do remember that a lot of people out there - both white and blue collar - work at least as hard for much crappier pay, often under worse conditions. This doesn’t mean medicine is perfect with regards to these things - far from it - but it does mean that the grass is not necessarily greener elsewhere. I know guys my age from college who are working on Wall Street, and their schedules suck mightily. The idea that I can pull $500k working 4.5 days a week with weekends and nights off almost does not compute to them. Biglaw jobs suck hard too. One of the things that I like about medicine is that it is much more “egalitarian” with regards to training. You can go to pretty much any US medical school, and any residency, and as long as you do well and choose the right field, you can make money. This is not true in law and finance, where pedigree is extremely important and where the places that pay big $$$ will often not even talk to you if you didn’t go to the Ivy League, or other elite schools. There is no easy path to an upper middle class lifestyle in America anymore (if there ever was). Pick your poison, and if you like medicine and can keep it from taking over your entire life, go for it.

In terms of the genders as well as family life and work/life balance: the majority of people starting medical school now are women. The profession does a very poor job of helping anyone, male or female, figure out the work/life balance thing. This is not just a problem for women in medicine, this is a massive issue with the profession at large. I would recommend anyone looking to go into medicine learn not to make being a physician their entire identity - and once they are out of training, that they become comfortable with politely but firmly setting boundaries around the job.

Too many "ifs."

Why sacrifice youth for abuse? No matter the field, you're still getting abused for a minimum of 3 yrs during residency. Unless privately funding the education, you are indentured to the field until pay off

Just do what my friend did and got a 4 year engineer degree and now makes as much as I do in EM

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Too many "ifs."

Why sacrifice youth for abuse? No matter the field, you're still getting abused for a minimum of 3 yrs during residency. Unless privately funding the education, you are indentured to the field until pay off

Just do what my friend did and got a 4 year engineer degree and now makes as much as I do in EM

I knew quite a few people in college who got engineering degrees. Very few of them are making the money that even lower paid medical specialties make. Many aren’t even making $100k a year.

As physicians, I think we forget about probabilities. If you do the time and train hard, medicine leads to a solid salary. This is not true in virtually any other profession in America now. Can you make as much as a lawyer? Yes, but the average salary of a lawyer right now is about $85k, and many graduating lawyers never get jobs in law. Can you make as much with an MBA? Yes, but generally only if you went to a good b-school and get hired into a solid management track somewhere. An MBA from “just any” b-school basically does nothing for you. As you can see, there are lots of “ifs” elsewhere too.

I agree that the training for medicine sucks ass, and that the job has its “moments” too. I’m just arguing that the grass often isn’t as green anywhere else.

 

[deleted1171787]

Ya'll seem quite jaded. All the docs I have shadowed have recommended medicine as a great career path (except an er doc haha)

 

[BoardingDoc]

Ya'll seem quite jaded. All the docs I have shadowed have recommended medicine as a great career path (except an er doc haha)

You're in a forum full of doctors who practice in the specialty which has the single highest burnout rate in ALL of medicine. I'm really not sure what you were expecting.

 

[lymphocyte]

Don't give her any advice.

Tell her congratulations that she's figured out what she wants to do. Tell her good job for doing so well in school. Tell her you're proud of her. Ask her if she wants your perspective on medicine. If she doesn't, just keep supporting and loving her. She sounds like a terrific kid.

This is her life. Your greatest gift to her is the freedom to live her life. This freedom involves making decisions for herself, good or bad. And don't presume to know what a good decision for her might be, because you can never really know. Trust her to do the right thing, as she has already done.

It reminds me of Carl Jung's quote, "the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of their parents." Don't contribute to this burden if you're the one with unmanaged burnout and career dissatisfaction. In fact, you of all people @Birdstrike, have so much to offer her in terms of how to self-author a satisfying career. She's very lucky to have you in her life!

 

[xaelia]

The practice of medicine in the U.S. will look different a decade from now when she finishes. Our lens is not going to be a valid lens through which to view the world into which she graduates.

Specialties evolve and change, as does the culture surrounding the medical workday – as will alternate career paths upon finishing medical school.

And, a combined program will still let her jump ship if something else catches her eye – she's not locked in forever.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Ya'll seem quite jaded. All the docs I have shadowed have recommended medicine as a great career path (except an er doc haha)

Blaming the individual instead of the system. Scorching hot take.

You certainly show immense promise as an administrator.

"We will follow your career with great interest."

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Don't give her any advice.

Tell her congratulations that she's figured out what she wants to do. Tell her good job for doing so well in school. Tell her you're proud of her. Ask her if she wants your perspective on medicine. If she doesn't, just keep supporting and loving her. She sounds like a terrific kid.

This is her life. Your greatest gift to her is the freedom to live her life. This freedom involves making decisions for herself, good or bad. And don't presume to know what a good decision for her might be, because you can never really know. Trust her to do the right thing, as she has already done.

It reminds me of Carl Jung's quote, "the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of their parents." Don't contribute to this burden if you're the one with unmanaged burnout and career dissatisfaction. In fact, you of all people @Birdstrike, have so much to offer her in terms of how to self-author a satisfying career. She's very lucky to have you in her life!

I don’t agree.

I think giving your perspective is important. I didn’t know any doctors directly before starting the process, and on some level I feel like I had no idea as to what I was getting into. (I thought I did.)

Honestly, in an ideal world I think the best thing we could do for premeds is make them EMBED with attendings and residents for a month or so. They go to work with a doc and see every minute. They go home with them and watch the argument from the angry wife who isn’t happy that hubby is never there, etc…doc opens up his loan accounts and shows you how much debt he has etc.

But you know what? Your kid has already done this to some extent, at least on the home side.

But I do not agree with the idea that you should shut off your opinions and let bygones be bygones. If you are frustrated with medicine and have a strong opinion on that, let them hear it (with the asterisk that it is one person’s opinion). My dad was an engineer, and one of the reasons that I am not an engineer was in hearing his (negative) opinions of the profession. And I am happy about that.

 

[Porfirio]

Too many "ifs."

Why sacrifice youth for abuse? No matter the field, you're still getting abused for a minimum of 3 yrs during residency. Unless privately funding the education, you are indentured to the field until pay off

Just do what my friend did and got a 4 year engineer degree and now makes as much as I do in EM

Way better. It took me 4.5 years of working double time (220-230 hrs a month) just to get caught up to my friends who went engineering. Plus, they got to enjoy their mid/late 20s.

 

[lymphocyte]

I don’t agree.

I think giving your perspective is important. I didn’t know any doctors directly before starting the process, and on some level I feel like I had no idea as to what I was getting into. (I thought I did.)

Honestly, in an ideal world I think the best thing we could do for premeds is make them EMBED with attendings and residents for a month or so. They go to work with a doc and see every minute. They go home with them and watch the argument from the angry wife who isn’t happy that hubby is never there, etc…doc opens up his loan accounts and shows you how much debt he has etc.

But you know what? Your kid has already done this to some extent, at least on the home side.

But I do not agree with the idea that you should shut off your opinions and let bygones be bygones. If you are frustrated with medicine and have a strong opinion on that, let them hear it (with the asterisk that it is one person’s opinion). My dad was an engineer, and one of the reasons that I am not an engineer was in hearing his (negative) opinions of the profession. And I am happy about that.

That's fair enough.

My view is that if you give good advice, who gets the credit for giving good advice? If you give bad advice, who has to deal with the consequences? It's super convenient for the advice-giver.

Besides, I didn't say don't give your perspective; I said ask if they want to hear it first. Once they're adults, treat them like adults.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I wouldn’t recommend it to my kids. My dad way a doc - I get the draw. The upsides are nice - reliable pay but outside of that it’s a very unpredictable and high stakes career. You can have your financial future obliterated in an instant by a vengeful pt even if you truly did nothing wrong. You can be arrested and tried criminally for your work even if you do everything right for if a DA with an axe to grind meets a sympathetic ex patient.

I had an ED patient threaten in writing to file sexual assault charges on me for doing a pelvic (which diagnosed PID) on them. I got verbal consent. I offered alternatives. Had a nurse chaperone who charted a chaperone note into the chart, I had her name in my chart, and I had a signed written consent for a pelvic scanned into EPIC.

None of it mattered - still needed to lawyer up and chew my fingernails off for 6 months about having a criminal record for trying to do my job and help someone who was hurting. Luckily the hospital and my director had my back.

In this county, my global assessment is it’s not worth it. There’s many careers you can make 400,000/year in that won’t land you in a defendant booth.

 

[deleted1140701]

I wouldn’t recommend it to my kids. My dad way a doc - I get the draw. The upsides are nice - reliable pay but outside of that it’s a very unpredictable and high stakes career. You can have your financial future obliterated in an instant by a vengeful pt even if you truly did nothing wrong. You can be arrested and tried criminally for your work even if you do everything right for if a DA with an axe to grind meets a sympathetic ex patient.

I had an ED patient threaten in writing to file sexual assault charges on me for doing a pelvic (which diagnosed PID) on them. I got verbal consent. I offered alternatives. Had a nurse chaperone who charted a chaperone note into the chart, I had her name in my chart, and I had a signed written consent for a pelvic scanned into EPIC.

None of it mattered - still needed to lawyer up and chew my fingernails off for 6 months about having a criminal record for trying to do my job and help someone who was hurting. Luckily the hospital and my director had my back.

In this county, my global assessment is it’s not worth it. There’s many careers you can make 400,000/year in that won’t land you in a defendant booth.

That’s crazy. Was she just severely traumatized by it immediately after?

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

That’s crazy. Was she just severely traumatized by it immediately after?

Nope, totally fine after. Pleasant to staff. Happy with plan of care.

The allegation arrived several weeks later and kind of out of nowhere.

I was glad I had both done a written consent and had a named same gender chaperone present for the entire exam who documented their own charting concurrently. I know most people don’t do written pelvic exam consents.

 

[deleted1140701]

Nope, totally fine after. Pleasant to staff. Happy with plan of care.

The allegation arrived several weeks later and kind of out of nowhere.

I was glad I had both done a written consent and had a named same gender chaperone present for the entire exam who documented their own charting concurrently. I know most people don’t do written pelvic exam consents.

Sorry to hear. Were there any consequences to her from filing a BS accusation?

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Jesus.

And people wonder why I don't do pelvics.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Sorry to hear. Were there any consequences to her from filing a BS accusation?

Luckily not. Hospital backed me up, as did my medical director. Lawyers said the criminal case would never hold an ounce of water even if they did decide to bring it. Maybe a med-mal suit could get a settlement simply out of easy of making the problem go away.

But I still had to write a formal response to our hospitals brass (which would be shared with the pt), which I of course had looked over by my own lawyer at my own expense which I wasn’t jazzed about - seeing as I’m a fellow and I’m still making 60k/year trying to escape being trapped in EM.

But I can’t always count on having a reasonable hospital admin to keep me from being tried spuriously for a freaking felony.

 

[Splenda88]

Medicine is good, but not perfect. Let your daughter do it.

If my daughter wants to do medicine and interested in primary care, I will advise her to do a 5-yr program in a crappy/cheap Caribbean school.

I had one of my co-residents who did that and finished IM residency at the age of 25-yr and 2 months, and started making 300k+/yr at that age. She had no student loan because the school was so cheap. However, it's risky because that person has to be very motivated.

That co-resident was smart; I saw both of her step 1/2 scores and they were > 260.

She made clear to everyone (even attendings) during residency that she did medicine for the $$$

 

[AlmostAnMD]

Am I the only one here that has never heard of written consent for pelvic exams

I can't be the only one

Another nail in the coffin of me ever doing a pelvic exam

I'm not trying to buy a car or open a bank account.

 

[Apollyon]

Medicine is good, but not perfect. Let your daughter do it.

If my daughter wants to do medicine and interested in primary care, I will advise her to do a 5-yr program in a crappy/cheap Caribbean school.

I had one of my co-residents who did that and finished IM residency at the age of 25-yr and 2 months, and started making 300k+/yr at that age. She had no student loan because the school was so cheap. However, it's risky because that person has to be very motivated.

That co-resident was smart; I saw both of her step 1/2 scores and they were > 260.

She made clear to everyone (even attendings) during residency that she did medicine for the $$$

Caribbean schools are not cheap. What school did she attend?

 

[Splenda88]

Caribbean schools are not cheap. What school did she attend?

Caribbean Medical University (from 2013-2018)

She said that the total cost (tuition, fees, housing etc..) was less than 150k.

 

[Apollyon]

Caribbean Medical University (from 2013-2018)

She said that the total cost (tuition, fees, housing etc..) was less than 150k.

25 years ago, St George's was more than that. But, then again, SGU is "the Harvard of the Caribbean".

 

[deleted1140701]

Luckily not. Hospital backed me up, as did my medical director. Lawyers said the criminal case would never hold an ounce of water even if they did decide to bring it. Maybe a med-mal suit could get a settlement simply out of easy of making the problem go away.

But I still had to write a formal response to our hospitals brass (which would be shared with the pt), which I of course had looked over by my own lawyer at my own expense which I wasn’t jazzed about - seeing as I’m a fellow and I’m still making 60k/year trying to escape being trapped in EM.

But I can’t always count on having a reasonable hospital admin to keep me from being tried spuriously for a freaking felony.

I was more referring to consequences for her for filing a bs accusation. Did she get into any trouble? There was documented consent and a witness so you could argue she just made it up.

 

[bikERdoc]

I'd say kudos to you.

My kids are all 5 and under, so take this with a grain of salt. But when they are asked the inevitable, "what do you want to do when you grow up?" They often reply, "I want to be a doctor like daddy!"

I find it endearing at this age. But if they still say that at age 17, then I'd say I've done something right. I know my kids look up to me at their current age, but that might not be the case in their teenage years.

If your kids are saying they want to follow in your footsteps, then good for you. You've shown that medicine still has enough perks and lifestyle advantages to lead them down the same path that you once chose. Who better to see that than the child of a physician who has lived the career in their own weird way.

Unlike many on this forum, I still enjoy the career most days. I see the drawbacks but I also see the good days for what they are. I have fun at work most of the time. I've got special co workers who I love spending time with. I like seeing the weirdness and helping the occasional human. Yes, I'm fried on nights. But I also do a bit of admin now to balance things out. If my kids followed along and found a career that they could say the same about, I'd be pretty stoked for them.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Medicine is good, but not perfect. Let your daughter do it.

If my daughter wants to do medicine and interested in primary care, I will advise her to do a 5-yr program in a crappy/cheap Caribbean school.

I had one of my co-residents who did that and finished IM residency at the age of 25-yr and 2 months, and started making 300k+/yr at that age. She had no student loan because the school was so cheap. However, it's risky because that person has to be very motivated.

That co-resident was smart; I saw both of her step 1/2 scores and they were > 260.

She made clear to everyone (even attendings) during residency that she did medicine for the $$$

Yeah the math isn't mathing here.

"Cheap" and "carribbean" school don't go together.

Your friend is leaving out some major details.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

I'd say kudos to you.

My kids are all 5 and under, so take this with a grain of salt. But when they are asked the inevitable, "what do you want to do when you grow up?" They often reply, "I want to be a doctor like daddy!"

I find it endearing at this age. But if they still say that at age 17, then I'd say I've done something right. I know my kids look up to me at their current age, but that might not be the case in their teenage years.

If your kids are saying they want to follow in your footsteps, then good for you. You've shown that medicine still has enough perks and lifestyle advantages to lead them down the same path that you once chose. Who better to see that than the child of a physician who has lived the career in their own weird way.

Unlike many on this forum, I still enjoy the career most days. I see the drawbacks but I also see the good days for what they are. I have fun at work most of the time. I've got special co workers who I love spending time with. I like seeing the weirdness and helping the occasional human. Yes, I'm fried on nights. But I also do a bit of admin now to balance things out. If my kids followed along and found a career that they could say the same about, I'd be pretty stoked for them.

I think there's a lot of rationalization going on in this thread.

We have the perspective of "now that we're through to the other side, it ain't all that bad."

And it's true, there's a lot worse things I could be doing. I live a very comfortable and enjoyable life.

We know that medicine involves debt, insane sacrifice and opportunity cost.

Depending on the specialty, it also involves circadian interruption, abuse, missing evenings / weekends / holidays and abject danger to career and financial livelihood (see: pelvic exams).

High school / college students should be required to do a week straight of nights in either the ED, medical or surgical floors. Follow the attending, and do and be exposed to everything the attending does / is. If after that, you are still wanting medicine, all the power to you.

I just don't see how in good conscience I could recommend that path to my child, knowing that there are alternatives with just as much if not more intellectual stimulation, money and helping people.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I think there's a lot of rationalization going on in this thread.

We have the perspective of "now that we're through to the other side, it ain't all that bad."

And it's true, there's a lot worse things I could be doing. I live a very comfortable and enjoyable life.

We know that medicine involves debt, insane sacrifice and opportunity cost.

Depending on the specialty, it also involves circadian interruption, abuse, missing evenings / weekends / holidays and abject danger to career and financial livelihood (see: pelvic exams).

High school / college students should be required to do a week straight of nights in either the ED, medical or surgical floors. Follow the attending, and do and be exposed to everything the attending does / is. If after that, you are still wanting medicine, all the power to you.

I just don't see how in good conscience I could recommend that path to my child, knowing that there are alternatives with just as much if not more intellectual stimulation, money and helping people.

This comes up very often in the pre-med areas.

There are very few jobs that guarantee money like medicine as long as you don't massively screw up. If you can get into med school, you have like a 98% chance of ending up a physician earning over 250k/year at minimum. Very few other careers have that kind of luck. Sure there are ways to make more than we do but not everyone in those fields does so.

Its also worth noting that lots of MDs don't have the unpleasant parts of the job that EM does.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Nurse easily as at the college level you can make 100k and be a travel nurse you can get your doctorate and go into any field of medicine without restrictions

You can be CRNA or psych NP

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Medicine is good, but not perfect. Let your daughter do it.

If my daughter wants to do medicine and interested in primary care, I will advise her to do a 5-yr program in a crappy/cheap Caribbean school.

I had one of my co-residents who did that and finished IM residency at the age of 25-yr and 2 months, and started making 300k+/yr at that age. She had no student loan because the school was so cheap. However, it's risky because that person has to be very motivated.

That co-resident was smart; I saw both of her step 1/2 scores and they were > 260.

She made clear to everyone (even attendings) during residency that she did medicine for the $$$

I would never recommend anyone go to the Carib schools these days. The chances of coming out unmatched to any residency (and with nothing to show for all your time and money spent) are very high (and if you do match anything, chances are it will be some crappy sweatshop residency in which you will be totally abused). Carib schools are notoriously expensive also. Not sure which one your friend went to, but most have very high price tags and leave people with lots of loans Personally I think that’s an insane strategy. Go DO if you can’t pull off getting into a US MD school, and go to a cheap one.

 

[BoardingDoc]

and go to a cheap one.

Go to a cheap school is good advice almost universally. There are a handful of schools which arguably justify the price premium. For undergrad, I went to an extremely well regarded school and the name definitely opened doors for me. That said, the second I got into a state school for med school I canceled all my other interviews as it was going to be anywhere between 10k-30k per year cheaper than every other place I had applied. Zero regrets.

 

[painER]

I think the best thing you can do for your daughter is the provide support and make sure she has an accurate view of what she is getting herself into. Most of the gripe on this forum comes from those who feel that what they were promised/sold in medicine is not what they got, and now they are stuck.

I wish I had a more realistic view of medicine when I started out. You have the ability to find/encourage those opportunities for her so she can see it for herself before she's in her early 30's stuck in a career she doesn't like because she didn't fully understand what that career entailed.

All that said, medicine is changing and she's only 17. She's probably going to change her mind a million times and the current issues in medicine may/may not be there when she's done with training. What you can control is being a good parent to her, listening to her, gently providing perspective, and letting her make her own informed decision. Focus on that.

 

[NITRAS]

I'd say kudos to you.

My kids are all 5 and under, so take this with a grain of salt. But when they are asked the inevitable, "what do you want to do when you grow up?" They often reply, "I want to be a doctor like daddy!"

I find it endearing at this age. But if they still say that at age 17, then I'd say I've done something right. I know my kids look up to me at their current age, but that might not be the case in their teenage years.

If your kids are saying they want to follow in your footsteps, then good for you. You've shown that medicine still has enough perks and lifestyle advantages to lead them down the same path that you once chose. Who better to see that than the child of a physician who has lived the career in their own weird way.

Unlike many on this forum, I still enjoy the career most days. I see the drawbacks but I also see the good days for what they are. I have fun at work most of the time. I've got special co workers who I love spending time with. I like seeing the weirdness and helping the occasional human. Yes, I'm fried on nights. But I also do a bit of admin now to balance things out. If my kids followed along and found a career that they could say the same about, I'd be pretty stoked for them.

My 6 and 8 year old seem to have no interest whatsoever in being a doctor. I really don’t know if they have a real clue what I actually do. I’m not sure if I should be sad or insulted. The will get more exposure as they get older. My 6 yo is currently stuck between astronaut and US marshal.


Personally, to go from no interest to MD/BS degree, i think I would tap the brakes.

 

[deleted1171787]

Blaming the individual instead of the system. Scorching hot take.

You certainly show immense promise as an administrator.

"We will follow your career with great interest."

I don't think attempting to maintain more of an internal locus of control is "blaming the individual instead of the system"

 

[Groove]

My daughter is 17 and applying to college. For the longest time she was adamantly undecided on career. All of a sudden, not only is she saying she wants to go to medical school, she’s applying to an accelerated pre-med to MD program (7 years combined, med school acceptance guaranteed, no MCAT needed). Her GPA and SAT are very, very high.

I have never once told her to do Medicine and in fact have encouraged her to think widely about very diverse career options.

What should I tell her?

Man, I remember a post about Lance Armstrong with your knee high daughter way back when. Damn, I feel old. Hell, YOU should feel old.

 

[Groove]

This comes up very often in the pre-med areas.

There are very few jobs that guarantee money like medicine as long as you don't massively screw up. If you can get into med school, you have like a 98% chance of ending up a physician earning over 250k/year at minimum. Very few other careers have that kind of luck. Sure there are ways to make more than we do but not everyone in those fields does so.

Its also worth noting that lots of MDs don't have the unpleasant parts of the job that EM does.

I completely agree. I worked in another industry prior to med school and turned 30 my first year in med school. As much as I don't care for EM at this stage....the financial security and job security within "general medicine" is unparalleled. You just can't get that in any other career. Once you get past 200 or 250K, job security gets very unsteady. With medicine, you could be the worst doctor in the world and still have a very stable job making 300K.

 

[CoolDoc1729]

I would never recommend anyone go to the Carib schools these days. The chances of coming out unmatched to any residency (and with nothing to show for all your time and money spent) are very high (and if you do match anything, chances are it will be some crappy sweatshop residency in which you will be totally abused). Carib schools are notoriously expensive also. Not sure which one your friend went to, but most have very high price tags and leave people with lots of loans Personally I think that’s an insane strategy. Go DO if you can’t pull off getting into a US MD school, and go to a cheap one.

I know a couple who went to the Caribbean together.

The husband scribed for his mother in my dept for 4-5 YEARS waiting to get accepted to any US MD/DO school. But he never did. Went to Carib first try.

Then his wife, a nurse, decided as long as they were going she might as well become a doctor too.

They weren’t getting any residency interviews. The doc I work with was able to pull some strings to get them consideration at the crummy IM residency at my hospital and the crummy EM residency at the hospital down the street. Now she’s a crummy attending who does weird/dangerous things (I’ve inherited several of her discharges/transferred pt) and he’s a crummy ICU fellow and they act like they own the Earth. It’s pretty annoying.

But they owe $600k+ in med school loans and they only have jobs because of nepotism .. something to keep in mind for anyone considering that path in 2024.

 

[Goro]

My daughter is 17 and applying to college. For the longest time she was adamantly undecided on career. All of a sudden, not only is she saying she wants to go to medical school, she’s applying to an accelerated pre-med to MD program (7 years combined, med school acceptance guaranteed, no MCAT needed). Her GPA and SAT are very, very high.

I have never once told her to do Medicine and in fact have encouraged her to think widely about very diverse career options.

What should I tell her?

Respect her decision and just point out that it's a difficult path.

Then let Organic Chemistry do its thing.