Mentor “too busy” to write LOR??

[cognitivecorner]

Hello all, new here but seriously needing some advice. My mentor won’t write me a LOR because they’re “too busy.”

Context - I’m a 4th year PhD student applying for practicum next year. I have a couple strong letters from my previous prac sites and need one from my advisor. I’m a good student who works very hard. Never had a problem with any supervisor or faculty. To my knowledge, my advisor and I have a good working relationship and this person knows me well.

I am so confused right now. Is being “too busy” a genuine reason for not writing a letter? Is this their way of saying the letter won’t be good? It’s kind of important that I get a letter from this person as they’re my advisor and only neuropsych on faculty and I’m applying to a neuropsych practicum. I’m going to absolutely need a letter from my advisor especially when I apply to internship, postdoc, and maybe even my first job.

I’ve said yes to everything this person has asked of me and I feel a bit betrayed in this situation and pretty upset on the verge of tears. Any thoughts on this thread?

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[Sanman]

Sounds like your mentor wants cheap labor to stick around a little longer.

 

[WisNeuro]

Only way I could see this being justified is if someone asked for a letter with little to no lead time. But, if the due date for the letter is like 4+weeks out, shouldn't be an issue for an advisor to throw something together.

 

[cognitivecorner]

Only way I could see this being justified is if someone asked for a letter with little to no lead time. But, if the due date for the letter is like 4+weeks out, shouldn't be an issue for an advisor to throw something together.

My request was a little bit last minute because my program only recently became affiliated with the practicum, and I clearly explained the unique circumstance. I asked 2.5 weeks out.

 

[MCParent]

Presumably the program does letters for pracs so the advisor knew they’d write one for you? Or does only this one prac site ask for letters?

This seems weird to me. I think you need to have a conversation with the advisor before internship letter time.

 

[cognitivecorner]

Presumably the program does letters for pracs so the advisor knew they’d write one for you? Or does only this one prac site ask for letters?

My advisor writes letters every year for pracs. I know someone they said no to this year for prac but this person isn’t the best student. I also know that she is writing for other students this year. I’m genuinely confused unless it is truly a matter of the tardy request and being too busy.

 

[jdawg2017]

Has she already written you a letter in the past? I’ve never had an issue, even if something with a quick turnaround came up, if someone had already written me a letter because they just make small tweaks to reflect and changes and it’s fine.

If they haven’t written you a letter before and you’re asking 2.5 weeks out I could see how it could be a legitimate time issue this close to the Thanksgiving holiday / end of semester. Even then, it’s not that difficult to write a LOR…

 

[Pragma]

I would expect at least a month’s notice for a LOR. It is a bit surprising for a mentee though. Could be frustrated with workload in general perhaps.

 

[MCParent]

I would expect at least a month’s notice for a LOR. It is a bit surprising for a mentee though. Could be frustrated with workload in general perhaps.

If you do them for every prac every year tho? So you already know all the students will ask for them. And it’s just a prac letter. Have the student revise one. If they’re 4th year and they do this every year they have one.

Seems weird to me, on one side or the other (ie prof is fishy or op is not telling whole story),

 

[WisNeuro]

If you do them for every prac every year tho? So you already know all the students will ask for them. And it’s just a prac letter. Have the student revise one. If they’re 4th year and they do this every year they have one.

Seems weird to me, on one side or the other (ie prof is fishy or op is not telling whole story),

A couple weeks and right before Thanksgiving makes it a bit tough, but yeah, seems doable if it was a last minute programmatic thing and not a student not giving enough lead time issue.

 

[MCParent]

A couple weeks and right before Thanksgiving makes it a bit tough, but yeah, seems doable if it was a last minute programmatic thing and not a student not giving enough lead time issue.

Or if the program has a practice of getting these in with say 4 weeks of lead time but op forgot/put it off. Some faculty are sticklers for following the rules for those things and you can’t really deny letters for others based on those rules but let your own students slide.

 

[biscuitsbiscuits]

This is where my mind went when I heard "she."

Female faculty, especially early career female faculty, tend to get the brunt of service expectations in the department, along with increased expectations for emotional labor/support for students and even other faculty. So one possibility is that she already has a ton on her plate and this is yet another request of her (even if this is a totally reasonable request). The semester is also starting to wrap up so work is probably piling up.

Thanksgiving is in 11 days. If she has a family and plans to participate in Thanksgivng, she may be burdened by expectations for making this holiday happen (cooking, hosting, organizing, coordinating, general "kin-keeping"). For folks who have never done this kind of work, it may be hard to wrap your head around the time and effort this can take.

We only have 24 hours in a day. It's possible she truly does not have time and instead of making this happen somehow and paying whatever cost would come along with it, she decided to say no. I say this without judgment of her or of you. I don't think you did anything wrong (from what we can see).

Or none of these things may be happening. There could easily be something else entirely happening here. But it is something to consider.

 

[cognitivecorner]

Has she already written you a letter in the past? I’ve never had an issue, even if something with a quick turnaround came up, if someone had already written me a letter because they just make small tweaks to reflect and changes and it’s fine.

If they haven’t written you a letter before and you’re asking 2.5 weeks out I could see how it could be a legitimate time issue this close to the Thanksgiving holiday / end of semester. Even then, it’s not that difficult to write a LOR…

Yes I received two letters in the past. My first was during my second year when I was applying to prac which got my into my first choice site. The following year, I was given a hesitant yes and directed to try to get another from the prac site I was at, so I ended up getting another letter from the same prac. And then at the end of third year, I needed a letter for a grant app and my advisor forgot they said yes when I reminded them a few days before the deadline (they agreed to it in writing a month prior) and asked me to write it last min, which I did.

 

[cognitivecorner]

This is where my mind went when I heard "she."

Female faculty, especially early career female faculty, tend to get the brunt of service expectations in the department, along with increased expectations for emotional labor/support for students and even other faculty. So one possibility is that she already has a ton on her plate and this is yet another request of her (even if this is a totally reasonable request). The semester is also starting to wrap up so work is probably piling up.

Thanksgiving is in 11 days. If she has a family and plans to participate in Thanksgivng, she may be burdened by expectations for making this holiday happen (cooking, hosting, organizing, coordinating, general "kin-keeping"). For folks who have never done this kind of work, it may be hard to wrap your head around the time and effort this can take.

We only have 24 hours in a day. It's possible she truly does not have time and instead of making this happen somehow and paying whatever cost would come along with it, she decided to say no. I say this without judgment of her or of you. I don't think you did anything wrong (from what we can see).

Or none of these things may be happening. There could easily be something else entirely happening here. But it is something to consider.

I was trying to keep gender confidential until I realized I outed myself hahah! but yes I think this is a very good point. This person has A LOT of personal stuff in their life. My advisor isn’t early career though - definitely a very comfortable mid career and says no very often to extra obligations.

 

[MCParent]

says no very often to extra obligations.

Letters of rec and setting your students up for success are a part of the basic elements of the job of being a professor imo. It’s not like taking on thankless, draining chapters or peer reviews that a dozen or so people could do just as well. Unless there’s something you’re not saying (letter request was after a deadline for them, etc), tbh I don’t have a ton of sympathy for workload here. Toss you the last year’s letter and tell you to update it. It takes 20 minutes (unless you edit the letter badly or something).

 

[cognitivecorner]

I think another thing that I’ve been thinking about lately in general is professional boundaries and how to navigate that. My advisor fosters close relationships with students and I know some things in their personal life, so sometimes the relationship feels very friendly, which is also why this feels particularly hurtful. I think boundaries feel a little blurry.

 

[cognitivecorner]

Letters of rec and setting your students up for success are a part of the basic elements of the job of being a professor imo. It’s not like taking on thankless, draining chapters or peer reviews that a dozen or so people could do just as well. Unless there’s something you’re not saying (letter request was after a deadline for them, etc), tbh I don’t have a ton of sympathy for workload here. Toss you the last year’s letter and tell you to update it. It takes 20 minutes (unless you edit the letter badly or something).

My advisor doesn’t have a letter deadline. And I offered to rewrite one of the old ones.

 

[Medisaint]

Hello all, new here but seriously needing some advice. My mentor won’t write me a LOR because they’re “too busy.”

Context - I’m a 4th year PhD student applying for practicum next year. I have a couple strong letters from my previous prac sites and need one from my advisor. I’m a good student who works very hard. Never had a problem with any supervisor or faculty. To my knowledge, my advisor and I have a good working relationship and this person knows me well.

I am so confused right now. Is being “too busy” a genuine reason for not writing a letter? Is this their way of saying the letter won’t be good? It’s kind of important that I get a letter from this person as they’re my advisor and only neuropsych on faculty and I’m applying to a neuropsych practicum. I’m going to absolutely need a letter from my advisor especially when I apply to internship, postdoc, and maybe even my first job.

I’ve said yes to everything this person has asked of me and I feel a bit betrayed in this situation and pretty upset on the verge of tears. Any thoughts on this thread?

Three scenarios come to mind, all involve poor communication.

1) Poor communication from one or both parties. Your mentor is busy, and is kind of old school. He has dropped hints that you haven't picked up on. He would edit/sign off on a letter of recommendation but doesn't want to do it from scratch. He is waiting for you to offer to draft your own LOR and send it to him so he can revise it.

2) Poor communication from one or both parties. He is not happy with your performance. This has been going on for a long time. He is so dissatisfied that he does not want to write your LOR. Your relationship with him would have to be pretty bad as the path of least resistance for him would be to write the LOR to get rid of you.

3) Poor communication from one or both parties. He does not want you to leave for any variety of reasons. He may have rationalized it as you not being ready yet. He would have definitely have dropped hints at how staying longer for an extra year or two would be better for you.

You need to get this clarified. Offer to draft your own LOR, if he makes another excuse then the issue isn't him being too busy...it's something else.

 

[jdawg2017]

Yes I received two letters in the past. My first was during my second year when I was applying to prac which got my into my first choice site. The following year, I was given a hesitant yes and directed to try to get another from the prac site I was at, so I ended up getting another letter from the same prac. And then at the end of third year, I needed a letter for a grant app and my advisor forgot they said yes when I reminded them a few days before the deadline (they agreed to it in writing a month prior) and asked me to write it last min, which I did.

This leads me to think something is going on that either you left out or are unaware of… if drafts already exist, it’s not difficult for you to edit them or for her to edit it.

Not sure what to say about this prac app if they have said firmly no except that you’ll need to get other LORs. You’ll want to get this ironed out ASAP, though, because not having a mentor letter for internship will be a red flag.

 

[PsyDr]

I feel like this entire thread is someone asking if X behavior means the Hot Girl/Guy is not into you.

OP: the answer is “no”. The “why” doesn’t matter. Move on. Find someone else to write a rec.