Mentors

[scrubs421]

Sorry, just venting (as usual).

But why is it so freaking difficult to find a mentor to take an interest in you? I mean we're med students, suppose to be colleagues one day. I'm nearing the end of M1 and I still do not feel like I have someone who I can consider a "real mentor". It took some work to find one in undergrad, but not like this! I don't understand the lack committment to helping guide young students into careers. Especially those (such as myself), interested in an academic, research/teaching career. I work in a lab and barely even see my PI! In undergrad, I had my PIs cell phone number, he took the lab out to lunch as a group once in a while. I just... don't understand, and I want to make sure I never, ever end up that way. Any one else feel the same?

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[SouthernSurgeon]

Sorry, just venting (as usual).

But why is it so freaking difficult to find a mentor to take an interest in you? I mean we're med students, suppose to be colleagues one day. I'm nearing the end of M1 and I still do not feel like I have someone who I can consider a "real mentor". It took some work to find one in undergrad, but not like this! I don't understand the lack committment to helping guide young students into careers. Especially those (such as myself), interested in an academic, research/teaching career. I work in a lab and barely even see my PI! In undergrad, I had my PIs cell phone number, he took the lab out to lunch as a group once in a while. I just... don't understand, and I want to make sure I never, ever end up that way. Any one else feel the same?

Wait, you're a first year and you're complaining that you "still" don't have a mentor? Take a deep breath and relax...

 

[Law2Doc]

Wait, you're a first year and you're complaining that you "still" don't have a mentor? Take a deep breath and relax...

Agreed. You cannot be taken seriously about knowing what you want to go into until you have done a few rotations, so it's way too early to try and line up a mentor. I mean why snag a mentor in a field and then risk later finding out you didn't even like that rotation? Once you know for sure what field you are going into, sometime in third year, perhaps, it should be easy to find someone in that department to speak to on a regularl basis. As for research -- you aren't really going to get a research mentor in medical school, so you are better off keeping it specialty specific. The focus of all medical schools are for training clinicians, and mentorships tend to work likewise.

 

[Bollywood Junkie]

what about if you want to go into a fellowship such as cards? Would you seek out an IM mentor later on? Who would help you with the best connections in this case?

 

[Law2Doc]

what about if you want to go into a fellowship such as cards? Would you seek out an IM mentor later on? Who would help you with the best connections in this case?

Late in third year, you pick a cardiologist to mentor you. They can give you insight into both IM and cards. But don't bother as an M1.

 

[grandslam521]

I have to disagree with most of the responses. I suggest finding a mentor as early as possible. While most first year students do not know where they want to end up in the long run, a mentor should be able to guide you regardless of your specific interests. A mentor isn't just someone to advise you on how to get into the best residency or give you a solid recommendation letter. Try to find someone who has a broad appreciation for medicine and has a history of working closely with students in the past and/or works closely with the curriculum committees and medical student education committees. It may take some time to figure out who is best to approach, but ask your Dean or Assistant Dean for suggestions.

 

[BigRedBeta]

I think your difficulty lies in the fact that right now your easily available faculty are PhD's, and despite what they might say otherwise, there's always going to be tensions between MD's and PhD's when it comes to career advice. People are most comfortable giving advice in what they know and your profs went down either path for a reason and as a result most PhD's are unlikely to be comfortable giving advice on clinical aspirations. Generally, I found clinical professors to be a lot more willing to give advice and insight to medical students.

Another thing is the frequency with which medical students change their minds on specialties is unparalleled - for every student that comes in saying on day one "I want to be an orthopedic surgeon" and then follows it through to Match Day, you have 5 other students who change their mind on a specialty 6 or 7 times. Further the type of advice one is able to give outside of their field is extremely limited (does my absolutely wonderful 3rd year IM prof have any clue about great pediatrics residencies, or even more specifically which ones have great PICU teaching/research that will help me land a Peds Critical Care fellowship?). It can put potential mentors, particularly if they do really want to help, in a tough spot where they have to say "I don't know".

Last thing, particularly aimed at what Grandslam said, youre much better off getting LOR's from faculty that had you on service and saw how you performed clinically. That's going to be a lot more powerful letter. A PI who you did a significant amount of research with (more than just a summer) is also good. Getting a letter that essentially amounts to a rehash of grades, step 1 score and character assessments like that which would come from a mentor who never supervised you clinically just isn't that helpful unless that person is a department chairperson or residency program director. No one should go about trying to find a mentor with the idea it's going to result in a LOR for residency.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I have to disagree with most of the responses. I suggest finding a mentor as early as possible. While most first year students do not know where they want to end up in the long run, a mentor should be able to guide you regardless of your specific interests. A mentor isn't just someone to advise you on how to get into the best residency or give you a solid recommendation letter. Try to find someone who has a broad appreciation for medicine and has a history of working closely with students in the past and/or works closely with the curriculum committees and medical student education committees. It may take some time to figure out who is best to approach, but ask your Dean or Assistant Dean for suggestions.

I don't think there is any problem with trying to find a mentor; I just thought the OP's lamentations of how he "still" hadn't found one (after a whole 7 months in med school...) was funny.

 

[scrubs421]

Well, I know a whole "7 months" of meeting with people and e-mailing doesn't seem long to you, but it is exhausting. It is not like I have been passively sitting around waiting for someone to come hold my hand or wipe my ass. I didn't expect it to be easy, but I expected LESS resistance then undergrad (by mentor I meant someone to help guide me, ask questions about the right/wrong direction to pursue things--particularly pertaining to academic medicine, etc., NOT into a specific residency). And I have to say, that my success in undergrad definitely came from finding a mentor early. I think that happens to be key for a lot of things in life, finding someone you respect and is successful and listening to their experiences--waiting till third year to do this seems a little idiotic.

 

[Law2Doc]

Well, I know a whole "7 months" of meeting with people and e-mailing doesn't seem long to you, but it is exhausting. It is not like I have been passively sitting around waiting for someone to come hold my hand or wipe my ass. I didn't expect it to be easy, but I expected LESS resistance then undergrad (by mentor I meant someone to help guide me, ask questions about the right/wrong direction to pursue things--particularly pertaining to academic medicine, etc., NOT into a specific residency). And I have to say, that my success in undergrad definitely came from finding a mentor early. I think that happens to be key for a lot of things in life, finding someone you respect and is successful and listening to their experiences--waiting till third year to do this seems a little idiotic.

But mentoring is a two way street, and the way the mentor gets anything out of it tends to be in the sentiment of helping a protege to follow his footsteps. As such it usually IS going to be residency specific, IMHO. The paths are different in different fields, the value a mentor can add is different, and the amount of time a mentor wants to invest in you depends on how interested you are in going into his field. Academic medicine isn't a specialty, it's a subset of all specialties, and as such, you are going to have difficulty getting good advice until you actually select a specialty. So no, waiting until 3rd year isn't idiotic. It's the time when a mentor becomes most useful because you are finally in a position to focus on a single specialty. A mentor you get before this is likely one who gets "dumped" when you realize you want to go into X specialty and thus find a more useful mentor for that specialty. Nobody wants to invest the time to become the dumpee.

 

[ANCAdoc]

Late in third year, you pick a cardiologist to mentor you. They can give you insight into both IM and cards. But don't bother as an M1.

Like grandslam 521, I disagree with this.

You can never have too many mentors nor can you pick one up too early. The earlier the better. Sure, you may not go into their field, but it is nice to have a role model, someone who you can talk to not just about your academics and the future but who will show you what medicine is really like. One who will give you advice should you need to navigate difficult waters. One who has your best interest at hand. They are out there, but indeed are hard to find. I'm lucky to have a few good mentors I trust, and no most are not in my specialty.

Also, networking is valuable as well. You never know when you might need a favor.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Well, I know a whole "7 months" of meeting with people and e-mailing doesn't seem long to you, but it is exhausting. It is not like I have been passively sitting around waiting for someone to come hold my hand or wipe my ass. I didn't expect it to be easy, but I expected LESS resistance then undergrad (by mentor I meant someone to help guide me, ask questions about the right/wrong direction to pursue things--particularly pertaining to academic medicine, etc., NOT into a specific residency). And I have to say, that my success in undergrad definitely came from finding a mentor early. I think that happens to be key for a lot of things in life, finding someone you respect and is successful and listening to their experiences--waiting till third year to do this seems a little idiotic.

#1: right/wrong in direction to pursue what? At this point you have one and only one task: try your best to do well in your classes/learn the material while staying sane. Summer research might be something to look into if you are interested in academics. What else is there that you need direction with?

#2 stop comparing undergrad to med school. In undergrad you have to start looking at potential paths early on to get an idea of what you want to do. In med school, you can look all you want, but before 3rd year you really have NO way of telling what you want to do. So, just study hard now, so that no doors are shut in the future.

Our school MAKES us meet with docs at least once a semester, and the discussion usually ends up about personal interests and not career oriented (as it would be pointless at this stage of the game!)

 

[scrubs421]

I don't get why this such a hard concept for some of you to understand. Some (in fact many of us), have no problem passing (or doing well) in medical school and are pursuing other things other than class (e.g. research, volunteering in the area, teaching etc.). In terms of career development, (in academics), I would want someone to throw research ideas at, talk about taking a year off--fellowships, dual degrees--MPH, MSc? (worth it, not worth it in depending on career goals), what's really important in terms of what I'm learning now... because I feel I lack that perspective... and I would want someone to give me NO BS answers--which of course isn't easy to find.

 

[ACSurgeon]

I don't get why this such a hard concept for some of you to understand. Some (in fact many of us), have no problem passing (or doing well) in medical school and are pursuing other things other than class (e.g. research, volunteering in the area, teaching etc.). In terms of career development, (in academics), I would want someone to throw research ideas at, talk about taking a year off--fellowships, dual degrees--MPH, MSc? (worth it, not worth it in depending on career goals), what's really important in terms of what I'm learning now... because I feel I lack that perspective... and I would want someone to give me NO BS answers--which of course isn't easy to find.

Fair enough. The only thing I can think of is talking to your Dean of students (our is super chill and really here for us, not sure what your situation is like). Maybe he/she can help you? Otherwise, you can try going to ground rounds for different specialties (~6 or 7am) and see if anything strikes a cord with you and try talking to the speaker and trying to get connected. My research PI was cool about meeting with me as needed for our projects and he never minded me asking him other questions. Maybe you'll find something similar?

 

[ACSurgeon]

Another thought is to join one/some of the interest groups at your school. Usually they bring docs to speak, another way for you to get 1-1 time and hopefully get a keeper.

I guess mentoring opportunities are pushed at us more than we need, hence my first response.

 

[Doodledog]

For the OP: Although I can't speak to your specific school circumstance, I can tell you that right now is an extremely busy and stressful time for folks doing academic research. The president has dropped a big one-time sum of money on the NIH and there is a huge scramble for the cash. This has led to specific statements to put some teaching activities on hold while chasing the $$. More generally, as some have said, there will be faculty, especially those heavily involved in research who prefer using their mentoring time (an unpaid, inadequately-respected activity for medical school faculty at many places), with more senior students. This isn't intended to justify it, but simply to explain it a bit.

More generally, mentoring can be career-specific, in which case you look to mentor proteges and be mentored by those whose career you'd like to emulate. However, it can also be much more general and this is legitimate mentoring too. IMO, all first year students should have a mentor. Now, as noted, if the mentor is too far afield, this can be ineffective, but it is worth a try. First and second year students begin to form career ideas (or come with them) and should be able to talk about them with faculty. Faculty can then refer them on to folks in the field of interest later on. But general discussions about careers hardly needs species-specific mentoring. Still, I realize that finding faculty with the time and interest to do this is hard. Again, they simply aren't generally supported in any way for doing this. Doesn't excuse saying "no" to you, but means that you have to look around more than you might have had to look in college.

I'd like to emphasize that a mentoring relationship is not a one-on-one all encompassing lifelong relationship. You can and should have multiple mentors, you should be able to check your mentors advice with other faculty, and you should be able to have a no-fault divorce from your mentor. You probably shouldn't marry your mentor though.