Michigan vs Mayo

[sleepingtime]

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One of my buddies told me about this site. I wish I would have checked it out earlier. I hate to open one of these threads, but I am on the line between these two programs. I haven't read much about Michigan on this site, but it seems that people like Mayo.

My thought after interviewing at these places was that Mayo probably gives you some bigger cases for adults, tons of hearts and regional, all of the zebras, and a great ICU experience. They were lacking in peds and ob, but you can pick some cases up down in Jacksonville.

Michigan also has good exposure to hearts and peds. However, their ICU experience isn't quite as strong and they don't do a ton of regional. They don't have the most advanced simulator lab, which I don't really care about. They have a new required intern year which might be tough. Their PD was fantastic and has been there forever. Ann Arbor is probably quite a bit better place to live in, but more expensive.

I thought people were very happy at both of these programs, and in my opinion they were the best of the Midwest. Any opinions from applicants or residents would be greatly appreciated.

 

[fukuisan]

I interviewed at both programs and definitely liked Michigan much more than Mayo. I really liked Ann Arbor and as a college town with numerous things to do during free time I thought it would be a great place to do residency whether married or single. The weather is reasonable. The PD and especially the chair (Dr. Tremper) are incredible, definitely the strongest leadership I've seen anywhere. The didactics are super with "lunch and learn", core conferences, keyword lectures, etc and I feel they prepare you extremely well for both the oral and written boards. The computer systems (MORCore and MORCare) are unique to Michigan and not only record vitals and intraop events but also give you "room tips" customized to each particular room/surgeon.

Mayo Rochester on the other hand is in my opinion a crappy place to live (although cheaper) because there's really nothing to do and it gets ridiculously cold in the winter (when I visited the weather never cracked 0 degrees F). You do get to spend time in Jacksonville, FL and Scottsdale, AZ but not for more than a few months. The program is excellent though... Dr. Rose (PD) really takes care of his residents and if you ever need time off for whatever reason, he fully supports you. The simulator at Mayo is awesome and state-of-the-art. The facilities at Mayo are also incredible and remind me of a hotel or a museum or something like that. Beautiful hospitals.

I think both programs are quite strong in just about everything - both provide good exposure to just about everything with Mayo maybe having a few more zebras as you said. Both programs are pretty cush with around 55-60 work hours/week. Michigan has you spend post-postcall days in preop meaning procedures and an early end to the day. The Michigan program is slightly larger with 26 residents/year compared to Mayo with 18. Both offer a large meal stipend making meals essentially free and both give you books etc. The residents at the two programs are different - the people at Michigan seem to be a more diverse group that seems to hang out together all the time whereas the Mayo residents seem to spend most of their time with family.

Hope that helps. Feel free to PM me if you have further questions.

 

[cleansocks]

I thought I would drag this thread from the depths not to figure out "which is better," which is quite useless at this caliber, but rather for help bringing forth considerations when deciding between the two that I may be overlooking. I can't imagine I'm the only one thinking about it! Here are the major points I'm considering and my impressions:



Location: Ann arbor is livelier, better restaurants/shops/parks, substantially higher cost of living, Detroit not as "good" as Twin Cities but closer at least, stadium can hold more people than live in Ann Arbor, larger young population; Rochester is a little colder (but not a huge difference all in all), wider age-range, OK restaurants, tiny but nice/clean downtown, almost half the population works at Mayo; to single people the difference is enormous, to couples less so

Curriculum: Michigan's is very structured -> gives you books it wants you to use, tells you what chapters to read and when, even what drugs to learn and when, with a comprehensive lunch lecture series spanning the course of the 3 years; Mayo's is less structured -> gives you a rather small book fund, lectures beyond core tend to be random (tho they are making it less so), keywords, or interesting cases; Regional extremely strong at Mayo versus pretty strong at Michigan

Hours: both wonderful in this regard - Michigan might stay a little longer but take less call per month than Mayo

Reputation: Both fantastic. Since I'm not from the Midwest I'm not positive, but it seems to me that among laypeople Mayo seems to be a jaw-dropper, among anesthesiologists both are about the same, and doctors in general favor Mayo by a little bit. Just my impression - what do u all think?

Travel: Mayo pays for you to go live in Boston, Florida, and AZ if you want though you meet your OB/Peds numbers just fine at Mayo itself; Michigan provides everything in-house, i don't think it has built-in aways

Portability: Mayo -> name carries you anywhere, good alumni network especially in midwest and out west; Michigan -> name carries you anywhere in anesthesia and alumni network is unparalleled since it's such a ginormous program.

Leadership: Michigan's Dr. Tremper is an incredible mentor (developed pulse ox, one of longest acting chairs) and unbelievably enthusiastic, a quality that he shares with the PD Dr. Sanford; Mayo's PD Dr. Long is an unbelievable resident advocate who will bend over backwards for his residents

Research: Michigan's database is the largest in the nation I believe and provides endless opportunities, research month now built into clinical base year, Dr. Tremper's at the forefront of a lot of important areas of study and development, probably(?) no barriers economically; Mayo definitely has no barriers economically and provides opportunities for whatever anyone could ever want to look into

Internship: required and very difficult at Michigan, but get to know your future colleagues, very well thought-out; not required at mayo, entirely IM with no surgical exposure, Q6 with every 7th day off (so no cake-walk either), but the IM teaching service is phenomenal and you learn a lot

residents/attendings: both similar Midwestern friendliness. Both well respected dept's with respectful interactions with surgeons.

Facilities: Michigan is an extremely large medical center with a brand spankin' new peds hospital going up, more square footage of medical facilities than most anywhere else, some parts feel a little old but still in excellent condition, the new cardiovascular center is gorgeous and I think I could live in its "jungle atrium"; Mayo is truly palatial - you can't help but feel like royalty as you traverse its marble laden halls, with all non-medical citizens smiling at you and saying "hi" with genuine respect as you walk by.




I guess those are the major points. Anyone have other things to compare or comments on my impressions?

 

[B-Bone]

i'm a mayo resident. our program is awesome, and I wouldn't go anywhere else knowing what I know now. I feel like I'm getting the best education I could with the best balance of work/life. Rochester kind of blows, but the tradeoff is worth it for your education. If I were single, I might feel otherwise.

All that said, I think Michigan is a great program and I ranked it really high and considered it as my number one choice for a while. If I had to make a decision between the two, I would honestly choose 100% on location and let it be. I don't think there is some completely unique/phenomenal experience that you'll get at any one "top" program that should make the choice for you. Almost all anesthesia programs are good/adequate/will prepare you just fine for a job. A few are "excellent" (I think Mayo and michigan fit in here). A few "suck"-don't go to these. If you are choosing among top programs, just go with your gut and you'll make the right choice, as there really isn't a wrong choice.

 

[cleansocks]

i'm a mayo resident. our program is awesome, and I wouldn't go anywhere else knowing what I know now. I feel like I'm getting the best education I could with the best balance of work/life. Rochester kind of blows, but the tradeoff is worth it for your education. If I were single, I might feel otherwise.

All that said, I think Michigan is a great program and I ranked it really high and considered it as my number one choice for a while. If I had to make a decision between the two, I would honestly choose 100% on location and let it be. I don't think there is some completely unique/phenomenal experience that you'll get at any one "top" program that should make the choice for you. Almost all anesthesia programs are good/adequate/will prepare you just fine for a job. A few are "excellent" (I think Mayo and michigan fit in here). A few "suck"-don't go to these. If you are choosing among top programs, just go with your gut and you'll make the right choice, as there really isn't a wrong choice.

But unless family's nearby, wouldn't Ann Arbor win for the vast majority of people based on location alone?

What about real estate? When I check out Rochester housing online, all of the houses seem cookie-cutter and kind of ugly. Can one actually find a cool/unique house to live in around there in the 100-200k range?