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I may end up deciding between these two schools, and I'd like to hear all your input on this.
Michigan vs USC
- Thread starter LizardKing
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Go with USC if you prefer the warmer climes and location, or if family is closer.
Otherwise, it's Michigan no doubt. USC is great... but Michigan is top-15.
Otherwise, it's Michigan no doubt. USC is great... but Michigan is top-15.
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I was considering this a few months ago. Here is some of the things I came up with.
Pro-s for USC:
Living in LA. There is so much to do here and the weather is great all the time. Your from here, so I won't go into it to much.
County Hospital. You'll get the best clinical experience than any place in the US.
Old boys network. Generally there are a ton of USC graduates who help out other USC graduates. Being that you went to undergrad at SC, it prolly wouldn't mean to much to you.
Matchlist is 80% california. Most people go away to medical school hoping to be able to do well enough to get a residency back in california. If you go to USC and do decent, you are almost guaranteed a decent spot in cali.
Environment at the school. I really loved the fact that the students all had an individual desk with an ethernet connection right there. I don't think any of the other schools I went to offered their students there own personal space on campus.
Pass/fail. USC grades you on a real pass/fail (not like other schools which still have class rankings even though it is P/F). The only time you are actually graded is at two year end tests and for special projects (I'm not sure what that is. It might be research or maybe PBL type stuff)
Clinical rotations where you want to be: My friend who is a residaency director tells me that they favor people who they know because they did a rotation in their hospital. At USC, you would be able to do rotations all over LA wiht the same people who will be interviewing you for residency a year later. THIS HELPS A TON.
Con's for USC:
Cost. But that dec is almost null V michigan.
Teaching: The teachign isn't as great as it is at other schools. If your the type of person who learns best while sitting in lecture listening to people talk, than you might be better of learning at a diff school.
Pro's for michigan:
Teaching: Great teaching. Much better than USC.
Reputation. Most people know that people who come from Michigan make great doctors.
Ann Arbor: Very nice and safe community. A bit to small for my tastes.
It's connecteed to the undergrad. I really like that about UCLA, in that medical students have all of the perks of being on a college campus such as a free gym and good libraries.
Connections.
Most Michigan grads go all over once they graduate, so you're more likely to get a hookup in New York coming from Michigan than if you went to USC.
Con's for michigan:
Weather. It's terrible. It could be that you will study more up there because of this, but I wouldn't be able to stand not going outside for 4 months a year.
Student enjoyment. I really got a bad feeling from the students who were there. It seemed like they were just there because it is a top ten school. There was a thread about that about 3 months ago.
Clinical training. Ann Arbor is really isolated, with not much of a patient base. I feel this really takes away from the learning you can do in the hospital, unless you go out to detriot to get some training.
Conclusion:
If you feel that you can study for the boards on your own and do well, then USC has a ton going for it. I feel that someone with a 230 on the boards from USC vs 230 on the boards from michigan (and similar clinical evals), more people would choose the SC person because he has done more in clinical and is more likely to be better trained.
If you need the lecture, and you want to go into a certain specialty that is hard to get into, but you don't care where you are going for residency, you should go to michigan. I feel if your looking to do ENT or something like that, the residency directors would look more favorable on reputation of the school in these cases because they prolly have had mich students in their program before.
hope that helps.
Pro-s for USC:
Living in LA. There is so much to do here and the weather is great all the time. Your from here, so I won't go into it to much.
County Hospital. You'll get the best clinical experience than any place in the US.
Old boys network. Generally there are a ton of USC graduates who help out other USC graduates. Being that you went to undergrad at SC, it prolly wouldn't mean to much to you.
Matchlist is 80% california. Most people go away to medical school hoping to be able to do well enough to get a residency back in california. If you go to USC and do decent, you are almost guaranteed a decent spot in cali.
Environment at the school. I really loved the fact that the students all had an individual desk with an ethernet connection right there. I don't think any of the other schools I went to offered their students there own personal space on campus.
Pass/fail. USC grades you on a real pass/fail (not like other schools which still have class rankings even though it is P/F). The only time you are actually graded is at two year end tests and for special projects (I'm not sure what that is. It might be research or maybe PBL type stuff)
Clinical rotations where you want to be: My friend who is a residaency director tells me that they favor people who they know because they did a rotation in their hospital. At USC, you would be able to do rotations all over LA wiht the same people who will be interviewing you for residency a year later. THIS HELPS A TON.
Con's for USC:
Cost. But that dec is almost null V michigan.
Teaching: The teachign isn't as great as it is at other schools. If your the type of person who learns best while sitting in lecture listening to people talk, than you might be better of learning at a diff school.
Pro's for michigan:
Teaching: Great teaching. Much better than USC.
Reputation. Most people know that people who come from Michigan make great doctors.
Ann Arbor: Very nice and safe community. A bit to small for my tastes.
It's connecteed to the undergrad. I really like that about UCLA, in that medical students have all of the perks of being on a college campus such as a free gym and good libraries.
Connections.
Most Michigan grads go all over once they graduate, so you're more likely to get a hookup in New York coming from Michigan than if you went to USC.
Con's for michigan:
Weather. It's terrible. It could be that you will study more up there because of this, but I wouldn't be able to stand not going outside for 4 months a year.
Student enjoyment. I really got a bad feeling from the students who were there. It seemed like they were just there because it is a top ten school. There was a thread about that about 3 months ago.
Clinical training. Ann Arbor is really isolated, with not much of a patient base. I feel this really takes away from the learning you can do in the hospital, unless you go out to detriot to get some training.
Conclusion:
If you feel that you can study for the boards on your own and do well, then USC has a ton going for it. I feel that someone with a 230 on the boards from USC vs 230 on the boards from michigan (and similar clinical evals), more people would choose the SC person because he has done more in clinical and is more likely to be better trained.
If you need the lecture, and you want to go into a certain specialty that is hard to get into, but you don't care where you are going for residency, you should go to michigan. I feel if your looking to do ENT or something like that, the residency directors would look more favorable on reputation of the school in these cases because they prolly have had mich students in their program before.
hope that helps.
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Michigan's ranking and standing with residency directors can be very significant if you want to go into a competitive residency or academia. But remember that you will still have to do well in your class at Michigan. On the other hand if you know you want to go into a given field and it is not competitive or that you will be much happier at USC then go with USC. The most important things are how you do on your boards in your third year rotations.
Good Luck.
Good Luck.
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Hail to the victors valiant,
Hail to the conquering Heroes..
HAIL HAIL TO MICHIGAN THE LEADERS AND BEST!
I went to Michigan for undergrad, and some of my friends are currently at UMich med school. Everyone I have talked to at the school loves the teaching there. One friend of mine who is now a 4th year did her rotations around the country, and when she was put side by side with other med students undergoing the rotations, she felt that she was so much better prepared and better taught as a result of her schooling at Michigan. And this was when she was comparing the education to the UCSF kids.
I think all in all, education is what you make it. It's going to be great if you put the effort into it. I really think the X-factor for michigan is the school pride and all the undergrad things like Michigan football that you feel a part of. You can deal with the weather. If you can deal with med school, then you can deal with the weather.
Seasons are awesome: go walk around in the Arb amidst falling leaves of varying colors, or steal some trays from the cafeteria and go sledding down Markley Hill! In the spring, go canoeing down the Huron River or just sit on the riverfront reading Dumas. In the summer go mountain biking up and down the local trails. How do you appreciate the days when they all seem the same? at michigan, the days are DEFINITELY not all the same..
I guess this is from a biased person however...
GO BLUE!
Hail to the conquering Heroes..
HAIL HAIL TO MICHIGAN THE LEADERS AND BEST!
I went to Michigan for undergrad, and some of my friends are currently at UMich med school. Everyone I have talked to at the school loves the teaching there. One friend of mine who is now a 4th year did her rotations around the country, and when she was put side by side with other med students undergoing the rotations, she felt that she was so much better prepared and better taught as a result of her schooling at Michigan. And this was when she was comparing the education to the UCSF kids.
I think all in all, education is what you make it. It's going to be great if you put the effort into it. I really think the X-factor for michigan is the school pride and all the undergrad things like Michigan football that you feel a part of. You can deal with the weather. If you can deal with med school, then you can deal with the weather.
Seasons are awesome: go walk around in the Arb amidst falling leaves of varying colors, or steal some trays from the cafeteria and go sledding down Markley Hill! In the spring, go canoeing down the Huron River or just sit on the riverfront reading Dumas. In the summer go mountain biking up and down the local trails. How do you appreciate the days when they all seem the same? at michigan, the days are DEFINITELY not all the same..
I guess this is from a biased person however...
GO BLUE!
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•••quote:•••Originally posted by mele:
•Jalbrekt -- exactly what is the downside to USC's teaching? Do they really not prepare you well for the boards?•••••I'm just comparing it to Michigans teaching. I wouldn't say the teaching is bad, it's just not as good as Michigan.
I actually ran into a guy in Vegas last night where I got stuck when Southwest bumped me off my flight from LA to Indianapolis who just graduated from michigan.
I can't relay everythin he told me right now, but I would be more inclined to shift to michigan (which I already favored). One important thing. He got his residency at Huntington in IM which is right next to SC. He said he would have had to
work a lot less hard (bad grammer) if he went to USC to get the same residency.
•Jalbrekt -- exactly what is the downside to USC's teaching? Do they really not prepare you well for the boards?•••••I'm just comparing it to Michigans teaching. I wouldn't say the teaching is bad, it's just not as good as Michigan.
I actually ran into a guy in Vegas last night where I got stuck when Southwest bumped me off my flight from LA to Indianapolis who just graduated from michigan.
I can't relay everythin he told me right now, but I would be more inclined to shift to michigan (which I already favored). One important thing. He got his residency at Huntington in IM which is right next to SC. He said he would have had to
work a lot less hard (bad grammer) if he went to USC to get the same residency.
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•••quote:•••Originally posted by laviddee:
•Hail to the victors valiant,
Hail to the conquering Heroes..
HAIL HAIL TO MICHIGAN THE LEADERS AND BEST!
I went to Michigan for undergrad, and some of my friends are currently at UMich med school. Everyone I have talked to at the school loves the teaching there. One friend of mine who is now a 4th year did her rotations around the country, and when she was put side by side with other med students undergoing the rotations, she felt that she was so much better prepared and better taught as a result of her schooling at Michigan. And this was when she was comparing the education to the UCSF kids.
I think all in all, education is what you make it. It's going to be great if you put the effort into it. I really think the X-factor for michigan is the school pride and all the undergrad things like Michigan football that you feel a part of. You can deal with the weather. If you can deal with med school, then you can deal with the weather.
Seasons are awesome: go walk around in the Arb amidst falling leaves of varying colors, or steal some trays from the cafeteria and go sledding down Markley Hill! In the spring, go canoeing down the Huron River or just sit on the riverfront reading Dumas. In the summer go mountain biking up and down the local trails. How do you appreciate the days when they all seem the same? at michigan, the days are DEFINITELY not all the same..
I guess this is from a biased person however...
GO BLUE!•••••I couldnt have said it better! Ann Arbor is addictive!
•Hail to the victors valiant,
Hail to the conquering Heroes..
HAIL HAIL TO MICHIGAN THE LEADERS AND BEST!
I went to Michigan for undergrad, and some of my friends are currently at UMich med school. Everyone I have talked to at the school loves the teaching there. One friend of mine who is now a 4th year did her rotations around the country, and when she was put side by side with other med students undergoing the rotations, she felt that she was so much better prepared and better taught as a result of her schooling at Michigan. And this was when she was comparing the education to the UCSF kids.
I think all in all, education is what you make it. It's going to be great if you put the effort into it. I really think the X-factor for michigan is the school pride and all the undergrad things like Michigan football that you feel a part of. You can deal with the weather. If you can deal with med school, then you can deal with the weather.
Seasons are awesome: go walk around in the Arb amidst falling leaves of varying colors, or steal some trays from the cafeteria and go sledding down Markley Hill! In the spring, go canoeing down the Huron River or just sit on the riverfront reading Dumas. In the summer go mountain biking up and down the local trails. How do you appreciate the days when they all seem the same? at michigan, the days are DEFINITELY not all the same..
I guess this is from a biased person however...
GO BLUE!•••••I couldnt have said it better! Ann Arbor is addictive!
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yo, lizardking.....
when are we going to play b-ball in the lyon center....
you still in LA?
peace out.
when are we going to play b-ball in the lyon center....
you still in LA?
peace out.
B
BlackPuma
i pick michigan, cuz their residency matchings kick a$$
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ahhh you figured out who i am. I know who you are too! I can't get in the Lyons Center anymore.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Boundless Energy:
•yo, lizardking.....
when are we going to play b-ball in the lyon center....
you still in LA?
peace out.•••••
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Boundless Energy:
•yo, lizardking.....
when are we going to play b-ball in the lyon center....
you still in LA?
peace out.•••••
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Major props to everyone for their helpful suggestions. I'm definitely leaning toward Michigan. Michigan's reputation, facilities, and teaching seem to be on another level compared to USC's. But USC's patient population is no doubt more diverse, LA is LA, and Ann Arbor simply can't compare.
Michigan vs. USC in terms of residency placement is a tricky issue. I think if a student performs poorly at USC, that student might still have a better shot at matching in CA (for less competitive residencies like peds, internal med, etc.) than someone who did poorly at Michigan. Connections might become the overriding factor on this one.
But I think if a student wants to be competitive for specialties such as surgery, ENT, optho, etc. even in CA, going to Michigan would be the best choice. I can see how going to USC might be looked upon as a disadvantage when applying, whereas going to Michigan would be seen as a plus. I know US News rankings shouldn't matter that much, but I can't ignore that Michigan has consistently ranked in the top 5 by residency directors for the past 3 years.
Anyway, my 2 cents. Thanks again for your help.
Michigan vs. USC in terms of residency placement is a tricky issue. I think if a student performs poorly at USC, that student might still have a better shot at matching in CA (for less competitive residencies like peds, internal med, etc.) than someone who did poorly at Michigan. Connections might become the overriding factor on this one.
But I think if a student wants to be competitive for specialties such as surgery, ENT, optho, etc. even in CA, going to Michigan would be the best choice. I can see how going to USC might be looked upon as a disadvantage when applying, whereas going to Michigan would be seen as a plus. I know US News rankings shouldn't matter that much, but I can't ignore that Michigan has consistently ranked in the top 5 by residency directors for the past 3 years.
Anyway, my 2 cents. Thanks again for your help.
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Although I am far away from med school, I would kill to get into Michigan. Michigan is my homestate so I can handle the weather. The weather isn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be 
. Sure it gets very cold but there are a lot of winter sports you can enjoy. Just buy a warm winter coat!
. Sure it gets very cold but there are a lot of winter sports you can enjoy. Just buy a warm winter coat!
K
kafshar
•••quote:•••Originally posted by LizardKing:
•I may end up deciding between these two schools, and I'd like to hear all your input on this.•••••My opinion in Michigan vs USC:
3 major differences in the schools (one VERY important one):
Location: Los Angeles versus Ann Arbor. That is a matter of preference and I think it is a significant (if not the most important) factor in being happy with your medical school. I personally like Ann Arbor better because I want to get out of Los Angeles.... I have lived in LA for 20 years. I also dont mind the weather in Ann Arbor, actually, I like it. But I think I am one of the only people from Southern California that says that. (We'll see what I say next year if the winter in Michigan lasts a little too long.) This is the something that I have been told by at least a dozen people who just finished medical school: the LOCATION where you go to medical school is what will make you happy for the next 4 years. They say that the people are about the same and the books are the same and if you really want to become a good doctor and want 0get into a competitive specialty, you will be able to do it based on YOUR EFFORT and not the school's reputation.
With that last sentence in mind:
Reputation: Michigan wins in the Midwest and on the East Coast. USC is highly respected on the West Coast and I am not sure what Californian residency programs would say in a comparison of the two schools. But I think one thing that is overlooked heavily when it comes to reputation: If you dont want to go into academic medicine... then your medical school doesnt really matter too much as far as your future success. You will become as good as you want to become and will get into the specialty you want to be in if you deserve to be in it (know your stuff, good letters). Your future patients will not ask you where you went to medical school and if you happen to practice in California, USC will actually sound much better to them if they do ask.
Patient Population: USC has a much more diverse (and better) patient population. This is one of the caveats that I have heard about going to the Univ of Michigan. (I am going to try to make up for it by doing a residency in a major city.) If you want to go into Emergency Medicine... then USC is the place to train and ER residency programs know that.
LizardKing:
Arent you on like 7 other waitlists? Why do you feel that the decision will come down to UMich vs USC? Be optimistic. Good luck.
•I may end up deciding between these two schools, and I'd like to hear all your input on this.•••••My opinion in Michigan vs USC:
3 major differences in the schools (one VERY important one):
Location: Los Angeles versus Ann Arbor. That is a matter of preference and I think it is a significant (if not the most important) factor in being happy with your medical school. I personally like Ann Arbor better because I want to get out of Los Angeles.... I have lived in LA for 20 years. I also dont mind the weather in Ann Arbor, actually, I like it. But I think I am one of the only people from Southern California that says that. (We'll see what I say next year if the winter in Michigan lasts a little too long.) This is the something that I have been told by at least a dozen people who just finished medical school: the LOCATION where you go to medical school is what will make you happy for the next 4 years. They say that the people are about the same and the books are the same and if you really want to become a good doctor and want 0get into a competitive specialty, you will be able to do it based on YOUR EFFORT and not the school's reputation.
With that last sentence in mind:
Reputation: Michigan wins in the Midwest and on the East Coast. USC is highly respected on the West Coast and I am not sure what Californian residency programs would say in a comparison of the two schools. But I think one thing that is overlooked heavily when it comes to reputation: If you dont want to go into academic medicine... then your medical school doesnt really matter too much as far as your future success. You will become as good as you want to become and will get into the specialty you want to be in if you deserve to be in it (know your stuff, good letters). Your future patients will not ask you where you went to medical school and if you happen to practice in California, USC will actually sound much better to them if they do ask.
Patient Population: USC has a much more diverse (and better) patient population. This is one of the caveats that I have heard about going to the Univ of Michigan. (I am going to try to make up for it by doing a residency in a major city.) If you want to go into Emergency Medicine... then USC is the place to train and ER residency programs know that.
LizardKing:
Arent you on like 7 other waitlists? Why do you feel that the decision will come down to UMich vs USC? Be optimistic. Good luck.
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Excellent breakdown, Jalbrekt
I'll add that I did a one-year podiatry residency at L.A. County (which entailed 7 months of what a normal MD intern would do...general medicine, ER, vascular surgery, ortho, etc.) and I'll concur that there can't be too many hospitals in the world with the volume, breadth and downright brutality of pathology that you see at The County. It's non-stop, high volume, memorable pathology.
I also grew up in L.A. and I'm pretty sure the weather's better than Michigan.
I'll add that I did a one-year podiatry residency at L.A. County (which entailed 7 months of what a normal MD intern would do...general medicine, ER, vascular surgery, ortho, etc.) and I'll concur that there can't be too many hospitals in the world with the volume, breadth and downright brutality of pathology that you see at The County. It's non-stop, high volume, memorable pathology.
I also grew up in L.A. and I'm pretty sure the weather's better than Michigan.
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yah lizard.... but you messed up my joke thread a while back.... remember
