Mid to lower tier?

[Quixotic]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

What are the mid- to lower tier programs West of the Mississippi River? I am selecting aways and am looking for a couple programs. You can leave out Iowa, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Kansas. Thanks.

 

[getinthehole]

St. Joes Phoenix - low tier. New Mexico, Arizona are fairly competitive.

Colorado - Seem to get good applicants, but definitely on the downswing, I bet it will be far less competitive next year, and should be. Nobody is happy. I'm going to predict they don't fill this year. Would say it probably isn't mid-low tier really, probably now, but a couple years later could be back to mid-upper. Could luck out with that one, but I do think it is a risk.

You didn't list Nebraska. Both Nebraska and Creighton are probably the same.

Utah, Washington, Oregon are all strong. Oregon the lesser of those, but still pretty competitive.

I'm not sure exactly how competitive those CA programs with unknown names are. UC Davis and Irvine are still fairly competitive. Davis probably slightly more so. Harbor interviews a ton of people for few spots.

 

[peduncle]

how about on the east coast... anywhere from florida to maine... mid-to-low tier programs

 

[Duchenne's]

So here's my question:

Where do the applicants that fall between 201 and 210 on that chart match to? 47 matches is a lot!!

I have searched for a comprehensive "non-competitive/mid-low tier" program list, but haven't found one yet. So please direct me if there's one out there. Otherwise, I'd love to have some input.

Location doesn't matter-I want to hear about all possible programs nationwide!

 

[werewethere]

A few probably match at community programs, while others may have a weak step 1 but have made up for it with strong step 2s, research, aways, great grades. If your numbers are in that range, make sure you apply very broadly, follow up with programs that don't reject your application outright with polite follow up phone calls, and try to get to the key #, which is 9 or 10 interviews, more if you can. This last match no west coast (i.e. West of texas/oklahoma/kansas/nebraska) spots were available in the scramble, with more places being available in the midwest, followed by a tie for NE and SE. There were 17 scramble spots available, compared to over double for the year you are quoting with that graph.

 

[Tedebear]

Actually 7 of the 16 open positions came from two university programs (St. Louis U and University of Kansas). If you take out those schools there were only 9 open radiology spots. All 9 positions were community schools.

Radiology for University programs is INTENSELY competitive. Echo werewethere..apply broadly. If you are below 230 you better apply to community programs too.

 

[Duchenne's]

Thanks for the input! So, using AMA's Freida search engine for "community hospital" based radiology programs, 25 programs come up. When searching under "community hospital, university based", 54 programs come up.

These are most of the programs that the lower-scored radiology applicants should apply to then, right?

 

[werewethere]

That can't be right, there are more seventy-nine programs nationally. To get more feedback about what programs to apply to, consider going to auntminnie.com and search the website, there have been numerous, extensive discussions on how to approach radiology when your numbers are not the greatest. Also, if you are an M3/M4, consider talking to your PD or department chair, or find out who is a trustworthy advisor in the radiology department, you definitely need one to help you figure out your strategy.

 

[Duchenne's]

To get more feedback about what programs to apply to, consider going to auntminnie.com and search the website, there have been numerous, extensive discussions on how to approach radiology when your numbers are not the greatest.

Thanks for the reply!

I have searched auntminnie and I've come up with a few posts like gamecock's "famous" post about his strategy, and a lot of threads on "taking step II early", etc. but I haven't found a lot on low-score radiology match strategy other than that...

So far this is what I've come across:
-apply BROADLY, in the loosest sense of the word, especially to community based programs
-take step II early and do well
-lots of friendly "reminder calls" if you don't hear back from programs
-away rotations=courtesy interviews
-get your application in as EARLY as possible

This is, of course, in addition to all the "regular" stuff, like good LOR's, flawless personal statement, etc.

Could you link me to some of those extensive threads you mentioned before, or suggest a search phrase to help find them? I used search criteria like "low AND step AND score", but they haven't come up with much other than what I listed above.

 

[werewethere]

You've got the basic story, so searching for additional threads probably won't help. You could post to aunt minnie and see what people say, but be careful not to take it too literally, lots of people on there are simply unrealistic. Consider doing research in the field, or any research. That will give you something to talk about at interviews and shows a commitment beyond a passing fancy with the field (but make sure it's in something you like). Step 2, however, will probably be the most important thing for you. You have to be a strong, effective student for radiology, since you'll be reading as much or more than any other residents. The easiest way for a student to be identified as strong is with board scores. Even an improvement of 15 points could help, and I wouldn't be surprised. You haven't mentioned anything about radiology at your home institution. They may very well be the most important people to talk to, since they may have helped many people from your school to become radiologists in the past. Good luck, and keep posting/PM if you got more questions.

 

[WaterAvatar]

what if one of the letters you want for your Radiology Application won't get in until mid-October. Doe programs not look at your file until all your recommendations letters are in??

 

[werewethere]

No, submit whatever you have of your application on September first. Many programs will send out invitations without complete files (i.e. they use scores to screen). For instance, Henry Ford and Beaumont send out their first invites in mid to late September, and I know several people who did not have most of their letters in at that point.

However, you should note, many programs do have deadlines for completing files, including some that are very early (earliest I remember was Iowa, on October 1st, I believe). If you are unable to meet that deadline, contact the program and ask them if it's a problem, some will show flexibility, others won't.

Additionally, remember that some programs will not offer interviews until the MSPE (dean's letter) is released on Nov 1st. That does not mean their deadline is Nov 1st (NYU lists a deadline in mid October I believe, but doesn't invite until after the MSPE).

 

[medicinehopeful]

hey all,
i'm considering radiology and am ofcourse wondering about my chances. if a step 1 score is between 220 and 230, where do i stand? what can i do to improve my chances? also, how much weight do 3rd year grades (nbme shelfs) have? are they weighted more or less than the step 1 score? can i improve my chances with a good step 2 score? i just have so many questions. thanks.

 

[poloace]

hopeful...

people freak out with scores in that range, and, for no apparent reason. you'll be fine. that is a very solid and respectable score and you'll have a great number of interviews.

p

 

[werewethere]

hey all,
i'm considering radiology and am ofcourse wondering about my chances. if a step 1 score is between 220 and 230, where do i stand? what can i do to improve my chances? also, how much weight do 3rd year grades (nbme shelfs) have? are they weighted more or less than the step 1 score? can i improve my chances with a good step 2 score? i just have so many questions. thanks.

Take a deep breath first and visualize matching. 220-230 is a respectable score, that combined with other factors should give you a good chance to match.
1) Step 1 is the most important initial factor, and plays an important, slightly less significant role in matching. The reason for this is that there are so many applications that step 1 is one of few characteristics that programs can easily use to reduce an enourmous pile into a slightly less enourmous pile. A improved step two can be of help if the program considers either the actual number and/or the improvement compared to step 1. It is not a substitute for a strong step one, but still helpful in many cases. Taking it early is probably going to be beneficial if you are in the 220-230 range simply because there are lots more people with that score that 230-240, so it can help distinguish you from the crowd.
2) Grades are important to help determine both if you are consistent, active student and if you are social and easy to work with. They help confirm that you are human being rather than a women's sanitary product, a hardware store purchase, or whatever other vernacular expression you choose to use. Remember, since the clerkship grades are not standardized, they are a little more difficult for programs to interpret, so they are relatively less important then the steps, but still very important.
3) Away rotations may help for programs that might be a stretch for you go get into. However, this is a function of your personality-interact well and you'll be remembered well. You can also do reseach (rads>=non rads), which may give you a discussion point during your interviews. Finally, you may even do rotations that can help you secure additional strong LoRs, if you feel you don't already have them. An example might be medicine SubI.
4) Other demonstrated factors probably can't be manipulated at this point (i.e. AOA status).
5) Apply early and intelligently by having a well written personal statement with specifics on yourself, including why you are applying to radiology (reasons are good, real life examples and details are better), what makes you a good candidate, and what your career plans are. Practice your interviews with friends/family/whomever the school has hired so that you can get your message across on interviews while appearing professional and a human being. Make sure you choose the programs you apply to with a rationale (i.e. region, family/personal connections in the area, having a strong department in a radiology field you want (i.e. if you like neuroradiology or IR, make sure you apply and mention it as a reason for application), and be generous in the number of applications, including programs that previous applicants from your school have matched at. Good luck!

 

[Duchenne's]

-away rotations=courtesy interviews

So as a "low-tier" applicant (LOL) I want as many interviews as possible, and like we've already discussed, doing away rotations often result in what are known as "courtesy" interviews.

That being said, do programs often grant interviews for two week electives? Or only for longer (3-4 week) electives?

Obviously a longer elective would be better to get to know the programs, but a major point of doing electives (besides obviously "feeling out" the programs) is to secure as many interviews as possible, so there must be a balance...

What do you guys think? Is a two week elective enough to secure an interview at most community-based programs?

 

[Duchenne's]

So as a "low-tier" applicant (LOL) I want as many interviews as possible, and like we've already discussed, doing away rotations often result in what are known as "courtesy" interviews.

That being said, do programs often grant interviews for two week electives? Or only for longer (3-4 week) electives?

Obviously a longer elective would be better to get to know the programs, but a major point of doing electives (besides obviously "feeling out" the programs) is to secure as many interviews as possible, so there must be a balance...

What do you guys think? Is a two week elective enough to secure an interview at most community-based programs?

Any ideas guys?

 

[werewethere]

I wouldn't sweat it too much duchenne. An away rotation may or may not be beneficial. As a student you may not have much of an opportunity to impress anyone and have all the chances in the world to screw up. Do an away only at a place you find desirable and don't figure on lots of aways to pad your interview list. Courtesy interviews are just that, courtesy. As for low tier, no one knows where you might land, high mid or low, the key is to apply broadly. If you get too many interview offers, then chose the ones that suit you best.