Midwestern

[kdawg]

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I started this same thread in the Dental Forum to get some advice from current dental students. But I would also be interested to know what pre-dental students' opinions are , especially those who interviewed there.

What would be the disadvantages and advantages of being in the first dental class at Midwestern University?

I was fortunate to receive four acceptances yesterday. I am leaning heavily toward Midwestern but want to get as much opinion about the school as I can. Thanks for your input.

 

[shane.]

Being a part of an inaugural (sp?) class gives you the opportunity to give your own input on how the program operates.

However, at the same time everyday is going to be somewhat of a learning experience for the faculty and things may be undergoing change more so than at an established program.

I really don't think you have anything to worry about, I interviewed at Midwestern and feel more than comfortable that I would receive an excellent education there.

 

[Smills91]

Being a part of an inaugural (sp?) class gives you the opportunity to give your own input on how the program operates.

However, at the same time everyday is going to be somewhat of a learning experience for the faculty and things may be undergoing change more so than at an established program.

I really don't think you have anything to worry about, I interviewed at Midwestern and feel more than comfortable that I would receive an excellent education there.

I've been in the inaugural class at my High School and the 2nd graduating class in my Master's program at University of Louisville.

Pros:
New - EVERYTHING
Get to be a trend setter
Closer student/faculty relationships

Cons:
Confusion - Faculty don't have established protocol
Uncertainty
Trial and Error
Logistics - Buildings built on time, adequate space, technical errors etc.

Really, it comes down to fit for your purposes. You're going to have headaches at Midwestern that you wouldn't have at other schools. At the same token, you may have experiences of intrinsic worth that you could only experience at MWU. It's all up to you and how you feel about each school. Midwestern is very expensive and will have some growing pains. But it's still my first choice if I were to get in there. (I'm also doing the military HPSP to off-set dental school costs - If I wasn't I'd choose Louisville,where I was accepted to yesterday, to cut my costs in over half.) Hope that helps. I'd say trust your gut feeling.

 

[kdawg]

Thanks for the insight so far.

So the general perspective that I've heard from most people is basically the same. That is, a new school is good for new facilities and more intimate relationships with the faculty, but requires students who are flexible and won't get bothered by all of the kinks that need to be worked through.

I would like some opinion about specific and fundamental reasons that would prevent, or convince, someone from going. In other words, for those who would LOVE to go there, why (specifically)? And for those who definitely would NOT even think about going to a new school, why?

And just to prevent further posts about the subject, let's leave the cost out of the equation. In my situation, I'm going to be stuck paying high tuition no matter which school I choose.

 

[chipab]

You have to take into account that Midwestern already has many successful programs such as an osteopathic school, pharmacy, podiatry, and physical therapy school to name a few. The whole campus is basically a health profession university. I feel confident that Midwestern has the knowledge, experience and the people to coordinate and build a solid dental program. Now if the dental school was the 1st health profession school Midwestern was making, then that would be a different story.

For those that went on an interview at Midwestern and saw the new dental building being built during the tour, it looked very promising. The 1st class will use the latest in dental technology in their education.

Yes, as a new school, it will have some bumps along the road, no curriculum can be perfect. But at the same time, Dr. Simmonsen during the interview said, when their curriculum was initially reviewed, it was approved without any suggestions to change anything. He said that this was a rare occurance. This is most likely due to all the experience Dr. Simmonsen had while being the dean of ASDOH. During the interview, I felt confident that Dr. Simmonsen had a solid grasp of making this into a strong program. Also the patient pool this school will get will be amazing. I don't think there will be any issues with finding patients.

A good aspect of being part of the inaugural class will be the attention you will receieve as a student. Since Midwestern does not have a reputation as a dental school yet, they will want to graduate as many of the 1st inaugural class as possible to build their reputation. Midwestern is spending millions of $$ to make this program, I don't think they will want to come out with a mediocre product.

hope this helped.

 

[kdawg]

You have to take into account that Midwestern already has many successful programs such as an osteopathic school, pharmacy, podiatry, and physical therapy school to name a few. The whole campus is basically a health profession university. I feel confident that Midwestern has the knowledge, experience and the people to coordinate and build a solid dental program. Now if the dental school was the 1st health profession school Midwestern was making, then that would be a different story.

For those that went on an interview at Midwestern and saw the new dental building being built during the tour, it looked very promising. The 1st class will use the latest in dental technology in their education.

Yes, as a new school, it will have some bumps along the road, no curriculum can be perfect. But at the same time, Dr. Simmonsen during the interview said, when their curriculum was initially reviewed, it was approved without any suggestions to change anything. He said that this was a rare occurance. This is most likely due to all the experience Dr. Simmonsen had while being the dean of ASDOH. During the interview, I felt confident that Dr. Simmonsen had a solid grasp of making this into a strong program. Also the patient pool this school will get will be amazing. I don't think there will be any issues with finding patients.

A good aspect of being part of the inaugural class will be the attention you will receieve as a student. Since Midwestern does not have a reputation as a dental school yet, they will want to graduate as many of the 1st inaugural class as possible to build their reputation. Midwestern is spending millions of $$ to make this program, I don't think they will want to come out with a mediocre product.

hope this helped.

Great commentary, chipab. Thanks.

What are others' views?

 

[xtractime]

i agree with all the positives and negatives stated in above posts. however, another negative i just thought of was that there will be no upper classmen to help out the new freshmen. usually in other dental schools they will have a "big buddy" system where the upperclassman is responsible for helping out the freshmen whether it be telling the spots to hang out in town, passing down old notes/tests, giving them the ins of scheduling patients in 2 years, telling them the mistakes they made when they were a freshman, etc.....

i also thought the campus was quite small especially since it is a healthcare professional campus. that means most 3rd and 4th year students of any program are usually not on campus and are out doing rotations.

other side factors are that they don't really have a gym to go work out in. their work out center reminded me of a hotel's gym center. i'm a exercise freak so that is just something that i look for in schools. but it would never deter me from attending midwestern. i think a big positive for midwestern is that dr. simenson is heading it. with his experience opening asdoh, i doubt there are many others in the world who have opened 2 dental schools.

 

[kdawg]

i agree with all the positives and negatives stated in above posts. however, another negative i just thought of was that there will be no upper classmen to help out the new freshmen. usually in other dental schools they will have a "big buddy" system where the upperclassman is responsible for helping out the freshmen whether it be telling the spots to hang out in town, passing down old notes/tests, giving them the ins of scheduling patients in 2 years, telling them the mistakes they made when they were a freshman, etc.....

i also thought the campus was quite small especially since it is a healthcare professional campus. that means most 3rd and 4th year students of any program are usually not on campus and are out doing rotations.

other side factors are that they don't really have a gym to go work out in. their work out center reminded me of a hotel's gym center. i'm a exercise freak so that is just something that i look for in schools. but it would never deter me from attending midwestern. i think a big positive for midwestern is that dr. simenson is heading it. with his experience opening asdoh, i doubt there are many others in the world who have opened 2 dental schools.

Good points, xtractime.

I've also thought of the disadvantage of not having upper classmen. I was thinking that this could be a pro or a con in some ways. With respect to the clinical interaction and advice from "big brother" type systems at other schools, I think it would actually be better to receive the instruction directly from the faculty...those who know best. And being the first class, they will be readily available, accessible and very interested to lend a hand.

As far as the social aspects of not having upper classmen, I'm not as worried about that.

And, there HAS to be a Gold's or 24 Hour in Glendale, right? And I bet we'd get a discount!

 

[shane.]

This is most likely due to all the experience Dr. Simmonsen had while being the dean of ASDOH.

This is an important point I neglected to mention. Dean Simmonsen, from what I understand, has already been through this process with ASDOH so you should expect nothing less at Midwestern.

 

[golfer]

I don't think that Dr. Simonsen was ever THE dean of ASDOH.
Didn't they say during the tour that they were building a new and bigger gym. I believe they are but anyways there are plenty of gyms around there.

 

[ElDienteLoco]

Flexibility.

If you are a flexible person then you would probably do fine...if you hate not knowing exactly what is happening in 3 months (or in the morning sometimes), the new school thing would drive you crazy. Think about it this way - every day until graduation, they will be doing things for the first time. That demands a lot of flexibility.

I was glad to be in the 2nd class at ASDOH.

 

[Smills91]

Here's another thing to consider. Patient load. You have absolutely no idea what your patient load at the school is going to be like. I've heard horror stories from friends at UNC, Washington, Kentucky where they have to go to malls or other places to generate patients to work on to fulfill all their necessary requirements. Also, I've heard at temple that students are in charge of collections for the patients they work on. Students don't receive academic 'credit' until a patient has paid, meaning that the word gets out and many know that in the end, the dental students themselves have to fork over a large check to cover those bills in order to graduate.

With Midwestern, I don't anticipate these kind of problems, but I would hate to have to waste my time garnering up interest to work on people when I could be studying, honing my skills or spending time with my family. That's an unknown variable that you just can't judge, especially with another school already established and only 45 minutes away. you won't know until you've already committed. Phoenix is a big enough metropolis where I don't this will be an issue, but you never know. It may take a few years to build a reputation with the community. Maybe you could shed some light on this matter El Diente Loco.

I know a lot of students here at the Univerity of Louisville, and one thing they're grateful for here is the ability to have a large and diverse patient load to work on. They have a very high passing rate for the Part II boards.

Just another thing to think about when deciding about schools. I'm not knocking UNC or UW or Temple, just those are school seem to be more 'respected' and I think it's due to their didactic education. My main interest when deciding on the school is how well of a clinical education am I going to receive.

 

[icechewer]

May I also direct you guys to this post I started about the pros/cons of having a dental hygiene program. During my MWU interview I was told they will NOT have one. What does that mean for us DMD students?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=473971

 

[xtractime]

May I also direct you guys to this post I started about the pros/cons of having a dental hygiene program. During my MWU interview I was told they will NOT have one. What does that mean for us DMD students?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=473971

hmmm this is interesting. the school i went to for undergrad had unergraduates volunteering and helped with basic assisting. there was also a hygiene program but it was not every day that they would come. when i assisted dental students they told me it was a great help. but i believe more schools don;t have assistants for their 3rd and 4th years anyways. u just have the patients suction themselves and quickly put on the etching/bonding agents as fast as you can instead of having them handed to you.

 

[Theo]

hmmm this is interesting. the school i went to for undergrad had unergraduates volunteering and helped with basic assisting. there was also a hygiene program but it was not every day that they would come. when i assisted dental students they told me it was a great help. but i believe more schools don;t have assistants for their 3rd and 4th years anyways. u just have the patients suction themselves and quickly put on the etching/bonding agents as fast as you can instead of having them handed to you.

My brother-in-law went to UOP and they didn't have assistants. When I went down to visit him and tour the school he had me assist. He said in some ways it was a pain, but at the same time he said it helped him to learn every aspect of dentistry up close and personally. So I think is how you look at it. It's a choice.

 

[kdawg]

Flexibility.

If you are a flexible person then you would probably do fine...if you hate not knowing exactly what is happening in 3 months (or in the morning sometimes), the new school thing would drive you crazy. Think about it this way - every day until graduation, they will be doing things for the first time. That demands a lot of flexibility.

I was glad to be in the 2nd class at ASDOH.

Thanks for your personal insight.

So, assuming I'm a flexible person, is that all I should be worried about? Are there more fundamental issues that could be problems?

Also, you said you were glad to be in the 2nd class at ASDOH. Assuming you could have avoided any headaches that you may have experienced attending a new school, would you go back and choose to attend another school? Why or why not?

 

[kdawg]

May I also direct you guys to this post I started about the pros/cons of having a dental hygiene program. During my MWU interview I was told they will NOT have one. What does that mean for us DMD students?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=473971

This is an interesting thought. During my interviews, I actually perceived schools with hygiene programs to be somewhat of a negative. At some schools I visited, they had to compete with the hygiene students for chairs. As far as utilizing them for learning, I'd rather be taught from faculty myself. Maybe the only advantage in my perspective is that you could sometimes use them in the clinic for assisting? But, it may be better for your experience to do it all yourself anyways.

Thoughts?

 

[ElDienteLoco]

IMO, patient load will be good at MWU. There are 5 million people in Phoenix and we are on opposite sides of the city (at least 45 minutes apart). If MWU can figure out how to accept ACCHCS (sp?) - the state medicaid insurance then you will have plenty of pedo experience because there are over 1 million people on medicaid in the state. I expect that the patient load at MWU will be pretty similar to ASDOH - I currently have more patients than I want (any takers?) but we have surprisingly normal to low amounts of removable prosth (Dentures, etc). The Leisure World retirement community is across the freeway from us but I still don't do a lot of dentures...go figure. MWU has Sun City over on the west side so...you should probably expect about the same.

Although there isn't a hygiene school at MWU, there are multiple hygiene schools in the vicinity (Phoenix College, Rio Salado) to refer patients for perio maintenance once you've finished all of your competency exams. MCC hygiene school works in our clinic at night and it is nice to have a hygiene associate to send perio cases that I don't have time to do, but it is a bummer to be off the clinic floor by 5:00 every day.

Don't stress about having a hygiene school paired with you unless you're looking for a suga' mama. I have to admit that my beautiful hygienist wife was very helpful in getting through the first few years of school (read: $$$$$).

In D-School, just plan to be assisting yourself. Even if there are assistant students or hygiene students around, they're still learning how to assist or scale and are no better at it than you are at what you do (read: its usually easier to assist yourself than to be assisted by a "student assistant")

Best of luck to all of you guys.

 

[Smills91]

Good information EDL. Thanks.

Another thing I that hasn't been mentioned yet that I think should be taken into consideration by some would be if you were interested in specializing. This can be a pro and a con at the same time. MWU won't have any specialty programs which on the pro side means more case exposures that won't be cyphened off to the residents, but it may impact those looking to specialize elsewhere as well. MWU will not have the reputation established yet and so other school may not look to MWU students right away. If you're a really strong applicant I doubt there would be any problems but for the upper-middle applicant that may play a factor in getting into a specialty program somewhere.

 

[ElDienteLoco]

Good information EDL. Thanks.

Another thing I that hasn't been mentioned yet that I think should be taken into consideration by some would be if you were interested in specializing. This can be a pro and a con at the same time. MWU won't have any specialty programs which on the pro side means more case exposures that won't be cyphened off to the residents, but it may impact those looking to specialize elsewhere as well. MWU will not have the reputation established yet and so other school may not look to MWU students right away. If you're a really strong applicant I doubt there would be any problems but for the upper-middle applicant that may play a factor in getting into a specialty program somewhere.

That's a good thought. I know it was a factor for me when I was deciding to go to ASDOH. After experiencing the endo applications/interview/acceptance process I'd have to say that not having a specialty program is a big plus if you think you may be interested in a specialty. I've gotten to do a lot more endo at ASDOH than I would have elsewhere. I've done about 50 cases including 25+ molars to this point. At a lot of the schools where I interviewed for endo, the predocs aren't even allowed to do molar endo. Lack of school reputation did not seem to affect my endo applications much. I know that there are situations where getting to know the specialty faculty at your own d-school can help to get you in, but that has always seemed like a lot of eggs in one basket to me. Specialty admissions seems to have a lot more to do with Class Rank, Board Scores, Research, etc. than whether or not you went somewhere with a good reputation.