Mini Mental status exam

[MakeABanana]

What type of questions do you like to ask on Mini Mental Status exam for abstract thoughts?

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[@JackShephard]

What type of questions do you like to ask on Mini Mental Status exam for abstract thoughts?

You can do the mental status exam during any conversation during the interview. When they share abstract thoughts, you write down on your note: "abstract thoughts"

What the mental status exam is not: "Ok, now I'm going to ask questions about abstract thoughts.... *insert question(s)*. Good, now I'm done with abstract thoughts. What's next on my checklist?"

Don't over think it. I'm sure once you do a handful of interviews or see a handful of interviews then you will understand.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

What type of questions do you like to ask on Mini Mental Status exam for abstract thoughts?

not sure if srs

 

[HopefulReapp]

I think we need a spoon pic of your exam criteria OP

 

[Mass Effect]

You can do the mental status exam during any conversation during the interview. When they share abstract thoughts, you write down on your note: "abstract thoughts"

What the mental status exam is not: "Ok, now I'm going to ask questions about abstract thoughts.... *insert question(s)*. Good, now I'm done with abstract thoughts. What's next on my checklist?"

Don't over think it. I'm sure once you do a handful of interviews or see a handful of interviews then you will understand.

This isn't accurate. You do ask specific questions to test abstract thinking and higher cortex function. You usually give them proverbs and have them interpret them. Not sure why people are making fun of the OP for a legitimate question.

OP, my attending always used common sayings, like "don't judge a book by its cover" or "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

 

[@JackShephard]

You can do the mental status exam during any conversation during the interview.

This isn't accurate.

Sure... btw, my advice comes from "The Psychiatric Interview" by Daniel J. Carlat

He obtained his MD from UCSF and did his residency at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston.

Here is a mini bio:

Dr. Daniel Carlat is the director of Pew's prescription project, which seeks to ensure transparency in physician-industry relationships and promotes policies to reduce or manage conflicts of interest that could affect patient care.

Before joining Pew, Carlat was a practicing psychiatrist and was president and CEO of Carlat Publishing LLC, which publishes non-industry supported continuing medical education newsletters for psychiatrists and other mental health practitioners.

Carlat is the author of numerous peer-reviewed articles and professional books in psychiatry, most notably The Psychiatric Interview: A Practical Guide, currently in its third edition and translated into several languages. In addition to his professional writing, Dr. Carlat has written about conflicts of interest for the New York Times, the New York Times Magazine, and Wired. His article for The New York Times Magazine, "Dr. Drug Rep", was selected for Harper Perennial’s Best Science Writing 2008 anthology.

In 2010, he published his first book for a general audience, Unhinged: A Doctor’s Alarming Revelations about a Profession in Crisis. The book, which proposes solutions for reforming the mental health care system in the U.S., has garnered significant media attention, including a July 2010 interview on NPR’s Fresh Air.

Dr. Carlat received his M.D. at the University of California, San Francisco, and completed his psychiatric residency at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston. He is associate clinical professor of psychiatry at Tufts School of Medicine. - See more at: http://www.pewhealth.org/experts/daniel-carlat-85899382125#sthash.8viDPFCa.dpuf

I was just sharing his expert advice. It's good to know someone on the internet disagrees with him.

Good day sir.

 

[Mass Effect]

Sure... btw, my advice comes from "The Psychiatric Interview" by Daniel J. Carlat

He obtained his MD from UCSF and did his residency at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston.

Here is a mini bio:


I was just sharing his expert advice. It's good to know someone on the internet disagrees with him.

Good day sir.

Please quote the line in The Psychiatric Interview that states you don't test abstract thoughts. It's pretty well established within the psychiatric community that you do. Waiting for them to share an abstract thought so you can write down abstract thought is like saying during the H&P, you wait for them to tell you their past surgical hx during any conversation and you write it down.

 

[ChEMD]

Sure... btw, my advice comes from "The Psychiatric Interview" by Daniel J. Carlat

He obtained his MD from UCSF and did his residency at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston.

Here is a mini bio:


I was just sharing his expert advice. It's good to know someone on the internet disagrees with him.

Good day sir.

What is this...and why do you feel the need to post it? Talk about unnecessary condescension to a legitimate question. Schools teach students, as a part of the mental status exam, to test abstract ideation, often by proposing a proverb and asking them to interpret it. But it can feel awkward doing this, so the OP was wondering if there's another way of doing this. Then Mass Effect disagreed with what you said based on what he/she was taught in school by trained psychiatrists.

I'm just not sure why you go off name dropping the school and residency of some random psychiatrist. Just because he suggests that you do something one way doesn't mean that's the only way, or even the best way, of doing something. I'm sure there are plenty of other doctors with "name brand" residency training that do things differently.

 

[michaelrack]

I think the OP is confusing a Mini-mental state exam (typically called the mini-mental status exam) with the mental status examination:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini–mental_state_examination

this mistake irritates psychiatrists so don't make it on your 3rd year rotation

 

[@JackShephard]

I'm just not sure why you go off name dropping the school and residency of some random psychiatrist. Just because he suggests that you do something one way doesn't mean that's the only way, or even the best way, of doing something. I'm sure there are plenty of other doctors with "name brand" residency training that do things differently.

Hmm. I think you misread my statement. I offered my opinion, which I've based upon an expert's advice from a good book on the subject. I "name dropped" to give more validity to my statement. What sounds better, "Random internet guy says..." or "UCSF MD, Mass Gen Residency trained best selling author on the subject says..."? Contrary to your assertions, there were no claims to absolute authority or a single method to complete a mental status exam.

Please quote the line in The Psychiatric Interview that states you don't test abstract thoughts. It's pretty well established within the psychiatric community that you do. Waiting for them to share an abstract thought so you can write down abstract thought is like saying during the H&P, you wait for them to tell you their past surgical hx during any conversation and you write it down.

Oh, I don't plan to argue with you. If you're interested, you should read the book.

And to this point:

Waiting for them to share an abstract thought so you can write down abstract thought is like saying during the H&P, you wait for them to tell you their past surgical hx during any conversation and you write it down.

Not exactly.

Anyway, I'm not here to argue. The OP had an inquiry - I offered good advice I was given from an expert. You said it's wrong. End of story.

The OP can listen to the expert's advice or yours, I'm indifferent.

Good luck to all. I do recommend the book I mentioned above. 👍

 

[ChEMD]

Hmm. I think you misread my statement. I offered my opinion, which I've based upon an expert's advice from a good book on the subject. I "name dropped" to give more validity to my statement. What sounds better, "Random internet guy says..." or "UCSF MD, Mass Gen Residency trained best selling author on the subject says..."? Contrary to your assertions, there were no claims to absolute authority or a single method to complete a mental status exam.



Oh, I don't plan to argue with you. If you're interested, you should read the book.

And to this point:



Not exactly.

Anyway, I'm not here to argue. The OP had an inquiry - I offered good advice I was given from an expert. You said it's wrong. End of story.

The OP can listen to the expert's advice or yours, I'm indifferent.

Good luck to all. I do recommend the book I mentioned above. 👍

To me, it just sounds pretentious when anyone name-drops like that. But I do see your underlying point.

 

[KinasePro]

"What do a bicycle and a train have in common?"
- see if they can only come up with concrete similarities (both have wheels), or if they can go abstract (both are forms of transportation)

"What do a ruler and a clock have in common?"
- both have numbers = concrete
- both are used to measure things = abstract

 

[Kahreek]

what is the similitude between a watch and a metric tape.

 

[Brain Bucket]

OP, keep doing the Lord's work.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

acted like the OP's question was ridiculous.

Look at OP's other five posts. Obvious troll.

 

[@JackShephard]

To me, it just sounds pretentious when anyone name-drops like that. But I do see your underlying point.

Thanks. I come in peace.

Good luck.

 

[DokterMom]

"What do a bicycle and a train have in common?"
- see if they can only come up with concrete similarities (both have wheels), or if they can go abstract (both are forms of transportation)

"What do a ruler and a clock have in common?"
- both have numbers = concrete
- both are used to measure things = abstract

While answering with the concrete illustrates simplistic thinking or a preference for concrete thinking, it fails to evaluate capacity for abstract thought the way explaining an idiom would.

 

[evilbooyaa]

"What do a bicycle and a train have in common?"
- see if they can only come up with concrete similarities (both have wheels), or if they can go abstract (both are forms of transportation)

"What do a ruler and a clock have in common?"
- both have numbers = concrete
- both are used to measure things = abstract

I would answer with the concrete answers, and I have a capacity for abstract thought. The MMSE is used to determine IF a patient can have abstract thoughts, which is why the example of having them interpret an idiom (I always use "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones", or if they don't understand that one, "a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush") which are inherently metaphorical.