Minn. surgeon needs two tries to remove appendix

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
In other news apparenlty doctors are human, my god they even make mistakes!!
 
How many appys have you actually observed? Do you realize that each organ isn't nicely labeled inside the abdomen? Locating landmarks is sometimes difficult in patients and it's not unheard of to have difficulties identifying things...it doesn't make that doctor incompetent, just human.
 
Have any of you actually ever seen an appendix? It's not always easily identifiable like a liver, heart, or kidney and can look pretty different in different people. I can see where a surgeon might mistake a piece of fatty tissue for the appendix. Though I can also understand why the patient would be pissed about two surgeries and the additional hospitalization.
 
Icecold said:
Have any of you actually ever seen an appendix? It's not always easily identifiable like a liver, heart, or kidney and can look pretty different in different people. I can see where a surgeon might mistake a piece of fatty tissue for the appendix. Though I can also understand why the patient would be pissed about two surgeries and the additional hospitalization.
Click to expand...

You do realize that we said the same thing that you did, right?
 
TheMagicCookie said:
You do realize that we said the same thing that you did, right?
Click to expand...

Oh I'm sorry, was that copyright infringment? 🙄 Move along.

And you do realize a person can start typing a response and then take a phone call only to return later to finish the response.
 
with that said, if you were the patient or a family member....
 
Icecold said:
Oh I'm sorry, was that copyright infringment? 🙄 Move along.

And you do realize a person can start typing a response and then take a phone call only to return later to finish the response.
Click to expand...


I meant you asking "us" how many appys we've actually seen before...all 3 of us were on the same page. I wasn't being condesending, just pointing out that we were all in agreement
 
lol @ "not an appendix"

Icecold said:
Oh I'm sorry, was that copyright infringment? 🙄 Move along.

And you do realize a person can start typing a response and then take a phone call only to return later to finish the response.
Click to expand...

:meanie:
 
My mother had her appendix removed five years ago. They had trouble locating it and on the third try, they finally found it. If you look at her scars, it almost looks like they were playing tic tac toe.

Anyway, this topic reminded me of that certain incident 😀
 
That doctor's gotta be really embarrassed.

Maybe they should rush the pathology on appendectomies if they're really that hard to do right?
 
If I was the doctor, I would be so embarrassed.
 
binko said:
That doctor's gotta be really embarrassed.

Maybe they should rush the pathology on appendectomies if they're really that hard to do right?
Click to expand...
Maybe that would make too much sense. Then again a rush might take more time than is needed to close the patient, anyway.
 
BlueElmo said:
If I was the doctor, I would be so embarrassed.
Click to expand...

Again, guess what? You will make mistakes, no reason to be embarassed. There is almost nothing that can be done unless you are doing the procedure at a place with a path department that can read it stat.

As for those of you saying the person and family should be pissed, give me a break. This case is unfortunate no doubt, but to demand perfection in all things medical at all times is the worst part of being a doctor. No family without ulterior motives is going to be angry, they should understand.
 
Animus said:
As for those of you saying the person and family should be pissed, give me a break. No family without ulterior motives is going to be angry, they should understand.
Click to expand...

Looking at it from the doctor's side, of course it's easy to say all doctors mistakes. Can't be perfect.

Looking at it from the patient's side, he/she has every right to be pissed and will probably sue. The person went home after the first surgery, had additional pain, the unremoved appendix ruptured (which can be life-threatening), had to undergo a second surgery, and was hospitalized for 11 days. If that was your mom, dad, or family member you wouldn't be very happy that their health was jeopardized by something that was preventable.

A simple sorry doesn't cut it. The surgeon is human and did his job the best he could, but the hospital needs better measures to prevent these inaccuracies especially in procedures like this.
 
Icecold said:
Looking at it from the doctor's side, of course it's easy to say all doctors mistakes. Can't be perfect.

Looking at it from the patient's side, he/she has every right to be pissed and will probably sue. The person went home after the first surgery, had additional pain, the unremoved appendix ruptured (which can be life-threatening), had to undergo a second surgery, and was hospitalized for 11 days. If that was your mom, dad, or family member you wouldn't be very happy.

A simple sorry doesn't cut it. The surgeon is human and did his job the best he could, but the hospital needs better measures to prevent these inaccuracies especially in procedures like this.
Click to expand...

You have no clue what you are talking about. So now every hospital should be forced to have a fully functional Path department that can take stats immediately? If you want that kind of care that is on you my friend. Do not blame the surgeon for your poor choice of locations/facilities. You seem to assume all places are going to have infinite monies/utilities, that will never be the case.
 
Last edited:
Animus said:
You have no clue what you are talking about. So now every hospital should be forced to have a fully functional Path department that can take stats immediately? If you want that kind of care that is on you my friend. Do not blame the surgeon for your poor choice of locations/facilities. You seem to assume all places are going to have infinite monies/utilities, that will never be the case.
Click to expand...

Don't worry about it. He got banned.
 
It's always funny when the media reports some completely run-of-the-mill medical story like it's breaking news, when every single person in the medical profession is reading it thinking to themselves "uh.... yeah?" The local paper ran a story a few months back about a horrible disease called "sepsis" that was running rampant in hospitals. OMG.
 
sacrament said:
It's always funny when the media reports some completely run-of-the-mill medical story like it's breaking news, when every single person in the medical profession is reading it thinking to themselves "uh.... yeah?" The local paper ran a story a few months back about a horrible disease called "sepsis" that was running rampant in hospitals. OMG.
Click to expand...

Media reports aren't directed at doctors or those in hte medical profession. They're directed at the general public, many of whom are naive about these things.
 
binko said:
Maybe they should rush the pathology on appendectomies if they're really that hard to do right?
Click to expand...

So in the thousands of appendectomies performed annually there's one reported F-up and the solution is to staff frozen sections labs nationwide with 24/7 pathologists.

Sorry, that's just not a very wise use of resources.

After 58 autopsies I have learned not to be too hasty in judging the apparent screwups of my colleagues. Sure, there are royal screwups, but more frequently there are extenuating circumstances. For all we know this patient had eight C-sections and her abdomen was a festival of adhesions.
 
This is precisely why I removed my appendix myself. Can't depend on those incompetent doctors.
 
Icecold said:
Looking at it from the patient's side, he/she has every right to be pissed and will probably sue. The person went home after the first surgery, had additional pain, the unremoved appendix ruptured (which can be life-threatening), had to undergo a second surgery, and was hospitalized for 11 days. If that was your mom, dad, or family member you wouldn't be very happy that their health was jeopardized by something that was preventable.
Click to expand...
They can sue, but they'll lose. Nobody died. No one suffered permanent disability. Bad things happen, especially when you're really sick. The patient can be unhappy, but they're not gonna get rich.

(yes, I know he was banned)
 
Gut Shot said:
After 58 autopsies I have learned not to be too hasty in judging the apparent screwups of my colleagues. Sure, there are royal screwups, but more frequently there are extenuating circumstances. For all we know this patient had eight C-sections and her abdomen was a festival of adhesions.
Click to expand...
Ugh, saw that once. She had 7 C-sections, a few incisional hernia repairs, and a few other hernias here and there, and she presented to the ED with an ?abscess/?cellulitis. The CT scan was mortifying.
 
Animus said:
As for those of you saying the person and family should be pissed, give me a break. This case is unfortunate no doubt, but to demand perfection in all things medical at all times is the worst part of being a doctor. No family without ulterior motives is going to be angry, they should understand.
Click to expand...

What about when they get the bill for the second surgery?
 
Gabby said:
Media reports aren't directed at doctors or those in hte medical profession. They're directed at the general public, many of whom are naive about these things.
Click to expand...
Yeah, no kidding, which is exactly why fairly routine events shouldn't be sensationalized. Nobody is going to write a sensible, calm story on sepsis. They're going to write the kind of story that has my mom calling me in a panic, asking if we've been seeing any of that sepsis stuff in my hospital. And they're going to make the surgeon who needed two tries to get the appendix look like an incompetent doofus who just made an unthinkable, bizarre screw-up.
 
also, would a once in a life time f-up like this end the doc's career?
Click to expand...
If this is the person's once-in-a-lifetime f-up, then they are going to enjoy the most spectacular surgical career in the history of cuttin' folks open.
 
Animus said:
As for those of you saying the person and family should be pissed, give me a break. This case is unfortunate no doubt, but to demand perfection in all things medical at all times is the worst part of being a doctor. No family without ulterior motives is going to be angry, they should understand.
Click to expand...

That's the biggest bunch of bull**** I've read here in a while. If it was my loved one, you bet your ass I'd be pissed about the extra pain and suffering he/she endured because of a doctor's screw-up. Are doctors perfect? No, of course not, and this shouldn't end a career or anything crazy like that, but the fact is that the doctor made a mistake that resulted in a second surgery PLUS complications for his patient. I think the patient and his/her family have every right to be pissed.
 
sacrament said:
Yeah, no kidding, which is exactly why fairly routine events shouldn't be sensationalized. Nobody is going to write a sensible, calm story on sepsis. They're going to write the kind of story that has my mom calling me in a panic, asking if we've been seeing any of that sepsis stuff in my hospital. And they're going to make the surgeon who needed two tries to get the appendix look like an incompetent doofus who just made an unthinkable, bizarre screw-up.
Click to expand...

The media isn't there to get your permission to report stories. Yeah, they sensationalize, but they report what's going on. If your mom calls you in a panic, that's a personal problem. Like it or not, this surgeon made a doofus mistake. Is he a doofus? Nope, but he made a doofus mistake and whoever leaked it to the media holds the bag. The media only reported it. They didn't make it happen.
 
MedStudentWanna said:
That's the biggest bunch of bull**** I've read here in a while. If it was my loved one, you bet your ass I'd be pissed about the extra pain and suffering he/she endured because of a doctor's screw-up. Are doctors perfect? No, of course not, and this shouldn't end a career or anything crazy like that, but the fact is that the doctor made a mistake that resulted in a second surgery PLUS complications for his patient. I think the patient and his/her family have every right to be pissed.
Click to expand...
We're a bunch of relatively well informed pre-meds, med students, and residents and we can't even see eye to eye on physician responsibility and patient advocacy.

How do you expect the public and the courts and the treatment team to see eye to eye?
 
MedStudentWanna said:
The media isn't there to get your permission to report stories. Yeah, they sensationalize, but they report what's going on. If your mom calls you in a panic, that's a personal problem. Like it or not, this surgeon made a doofus mistake. Is he a doofus? Nope, but he made a doofus mistake and whoever leaked it to the media holds the bag. The media only reported it. They didn't make it happen.
Click to expand...
So are you actually trying to say that you do not care if the media paints certain events as being more frequent, significant, worrisome, dangerous, etc. than they actually are, so long as in some manner they give the public a vague, or even completely misleading, idea of what is going on? That's awesome.
 
TheMagicCookie said:
How many appys have you actually observed? Do you realize that each organ isn't nicely labeled inside the abdomen? Locating landmarks is sometimes difficult in patients and it's not unheard of to have difficulties identifying things...it doesn't make that doctor incompetent, just human.
Click to expand...
I've been through an anatomy course (granted it was in 2003) and when I saw a radical prostetectomy a couple of week back I confused chunks visceral fat with getting a peak of intestines. Sounds ridiculous, but it really is much harder to figure out what is what when there is blood, fat, and all other sorts of connective tissue all over the place. lol
 
sacrament said:
So are you actually trying to say that you do not care if the media paints certain events as being more frequent, significant, worrisome, dangerous, etc. than they actually are, so long as in some manner they give the public a vague, or even completely misleading, idea of what is going on? That's awesome.
Click to expand...

Show me one media report that reported cases of sepsis or a medical screw-up inaccurately, painting them as being more frequent, significant, worrisome, or dangerous.
 
After the appendix was removed, could the surgeon have examined it to confirm it was the right structure? I've never seen an actual appendix, but I know it's a little pouch of intestinal wall tissue. It seems like it should be possible to figure out what you've removed before closing up the patient.
 
Gut Shot said:
So in the thousands of appendectomies performed annually there's one reported F-up and the solution is to staff frozen sections labs nationwide with 24/7 pathologists.

Sorry, that's just not a very wise use of resources.

After 58 autopsies I have learned not to be too hasty in judging the apparent screwups of my colleagues. Sure, there are royal screwups, but more frequently there are extenuating circumstances. For all we know this patient had eight C-sections and her abdomen was a festival of adhesions.
Click to expand...

C'mon dude, when's the last time you weren't called in for a frozen on an appendicitis case at 2 AM? FFP and platelet requests be damned, we've got an appendectomy to do frozens on!
 
GeraldMonroe said:
After the appendix was removed, could the surgeon have examined it to confirm it was the right structure? I've never seen an actual appendix, but I know it's a little pouch of intestinal wall tissue. It seems like it should be possible to figure out what you've removed before closing up the patient.
Click to expand...

Yes, the surgeon can look at the specimen and verify that he has it (its pretty common to do it with other specimens they remove as well).

Here's a rather normal looking appendix, minus the periappendiceal fat:

674004_xlarge.jpg
 
DarksideAllstar said:
C'mon dude, when's the last time you weren't called in for a frozen on an appendicitis case at 2 AM? FFP and platelet requests be damned, we've got an appendectomy to do frozens on!
Click to expand...
When's the last time YOU processed a frozen section?

EDIT: NM. I didn't realize you're a path resident.

I jumped the gun cuz I hate the docs who run around ordering us to process frozens faster and it's like chill out and cut it yourself if you want. When we DO process them quickly, you're nowhere to be found to read the slides anyway. /rant
 
Last edited:
koko_eats said:
When's the last time YOU processed a frozen section?
Click to expand...

Approximately 3 weeks ago when I was on surgical pathology and an OMFS surgeon sent up 10 separate margins on a SCC of the retromolar trigone of a patient who was undergoing mandibulectomy and right neck dissection.

Or maybe it was earlier that day when I did about 4 or 5 neuro frozens to determine if something was met vs glioma vs lymphoma...


Oh yeah, I've done about two years worth of frozen sections.

EDIT: no worries.
 
Last edited:
DarksideAllstar said:
Approximately 3 weeks ago when I was on surgical pathology and an OMFS surgeon sent up 10 separate margins on a SCC of the retromolar trigone of a patient who was undergoing mandibulectomy and right neck dissection.

Or maybe it was earlier that day when I did about 4 or 5 neuro frozens to determine if something was met vs glioma vs lymphoma...


Oh yeah, I've done about two years worth of frozen sections.

EDIT: no worries.
Click to expand...
I was reading through your post history and the path forum is HARSH. I thought that pre-meds were an obnoxious bunch.
 
koko_eats said:
I was reading through your post history and the path forum is HARSH. I thought that pre-meds were an obnoxious bunch.
Click to expand...

Rule of thumb: the further along in training you are, the more obnoxious you and your peers become. G'luck.
 
BlueElmo said:
If I was the doctor, I would be so embarrassed.
Click to expand...

Ahh the media.

Anyone else find it harder to visualize structures on even the HD laparoscopic tvs? Open is always easier... just not for the patient.
 
MedStudentWanna said:
That's the biggest bunch of bull**** I've read here in a while. If it was my loved one, you bet your ass I'd be pissed about the extra pain and suffering he/she endured because of a doctor's screw-up. Are doctors perfect? No, of course not, and this shouldn't end a career or anything crazy like that, but the fact is that the doctor made a mistake that resulted in a second surgery PLUS complications for his patient. I think the patient and his/her family have every right to be pissed.
Click to expand...

Really? The biggest bunch of bull**** huh? I would like the exact reason why you are pissed. The guy just got really unlucky, nothing else can be said. Doc did nothing wrong that we are aware of and the article makes no mention of lawsuit. So please enlighten us as to why you are furious? Other than at yourself for assuming everything would always be perfect in the world of you and yours.
 
Animus said:
Really? The biggest bunch of bull**** huh? I would like the exact reason why you are pissed. The guy just got really unlucky, nothing else can be said. Doc did nothing wrong that we are aware of and the article makes no mention of lawsuit. So please enlighten us as to why you are furious? Other than at yourself for assuming everything would always be perfect in the world of you and yours.
Click to expand...

Um, I said why in my post -- the pain and suffering of a second operation and the complications that came with it. Like it or not, the doctor made a mistake that caused additional pain and suffering for this patient. No one is saying he should be fired, but don't say the family has no right to be pissed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Should I remove a community service experience for an invention I'm working on?
Replies
2
Views
333
RockClimberMed
R
F
  • Question Question
Deciding between two research labs
Replies
5
Views
711
GoSpursGo
GoSpursGo
The Deep
Is a two-page update letter too long?
Replies
17
Views
1K
gyngyn
gyngyn
S
LORs take two
Replies
1
Views
474
wysdoc
wysdoc
PickaGodnPray
Top institutions removing DEI from admissions
Replies
5
Views
1K
PickaGodnPray
PickaGodnPray
Top