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Newton1$ said:
Hey guys,

My first lab report in my college career (will soon be 5 years ago) resulted in me getting a 0/10 on the assignment because I showed my paper to someone, hoping it would help them organize their lab report. We were in the same lab class, but our experiments were a bit different so no way I thought he would turn in my paper.

Turns out, he copied my paper and submitted as his own. I spoke to the lab director at the time, she understood my mistake, and only gave me a 0/10 on the lab assignment because I wasn't allowed to show my paper to anyone. She did however report the incident to the judicial office as a warning so that if I ever repeat a similar mistake that I would get a more severe punishment. I was never asked to meet with the judicial office or dean.

My mistake was that I applied the rules of my high school to college. I went to a small high school, where classes were often 5 people and we would be encouraged to share our papers/peer edit one another. Those rules dont always apply to a big college.

How bad is this IA? I called the student conduct office and they said that they only have the email from 5 years ago that stated what I did wrong. I struggled my first 2 years of college as a whole (3.0gpa), but I got a 4.0 gpa my last 2 years. Got a 519 MCAT, good EC's, fantastic LOR.

any help would be appreciated!
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This does not sound like an IA to me, unless you are omitting some salient details.
 
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Med Ed said:
This does not sound like an IA to me, unless you are omitting some salient details.
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No salient details. I was given a warning email from the university stating that I violated a rule for unauthorized collaboration and another rule for giving another individual an assignment that they would submit as their own. The email said that this was a warning and another violation would have more severe consequences.

At the end of the day, I never fought this because I was a new freshman who was so relieved to not be expelled or suspended. Never repeated the mistake or shared anything with anyone. Learned that I was in a new environment and I behaved accordingly.
 
Newton1$ said:
No salient details. I was given a warning email from the university stating that I violated a rule for unauthorized collaboration and another rule for giving another individual an assignment that they would submit as their own. The email said that this was a warning and another violation would have more severe consequences.

At the end of the day, I never fought this because I was a new freshman who was so relieved to not be expelled or suspended. Never repeated the mistake or shared anything with anyone. Learned that I was in a new environment and I behaved accordingly.
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Have you confirmed with your school that this is actually an IA?
 
Newton1$ said:
No salient details. I was given a warning email from the university stating that I violated a rule for unauthorized collaboration and another rule for giving another individual an assignment that they would submit as their own. The email said that this was a warning and another violation would have more severe consequences.

At the end of the day, I never fought this because I was a new freshman who was so relieved to not be expelled or suspended. Never repeated the mistake or shared anything with anyone. Learned that I was in a new environment and I behaved accordingly.
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Sounds like you got a warning with no infraction. I had a very similar experience, except my lab book was stolen by a roommate and put back after he copied. I got the same consequence as you, an email saying to be more careful and a 0/10. I doubt the schools you interview with will even know about it, but if they ask just explain, own it, and tell them how you learned from it.
 
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If the university, and not just the instructor, issued a "warning" that is an action on the part of the institution and thus an IA. However, as tough as I am about academic dishonesty, I would not see this as a impediment to admission. @Newton1$ should write it up clearly including what was learned from the incident and how their behavior changed going forward and it should be fine.
 
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Newton1$ said:
No salient details. I was given a warning email from the university stating that I violated a rule for unauthorized collaboration and another rule for giving another individual an assignment that they would submit as their own. The email said that this was a warning and another violation would have more severe consequences.

At the end of the day, I never fought this because I was a new freshman who was so relieved to not be expelled or suspended. Never repeated the mistake or shared anything with anyone. Learned that I was in a new environment and I behaved accordingly.
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Given formal warning from University Level (as opposed to professor or Chair) should be considered an IA that needs to be owned up.

PS @Med Ed beat me to it
 
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gonnif said:
Given formal warning from University Level (as opposed to professor or Chair) should be considered an IA that needs to be owned up.

PS @Med Ed beat me to it
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I will own up and report it, I just wanted to know the severity of the IA. I just hope it isn’t something that prevents me from getting in
 
Podstar said:
Sounds like you got a warning with no infraction. I had a very similar experience, except my lab book was stolen by a roommate and put back after he copied. I got the same consequence as you, an email saying to be more careful and a 0/10. I doubt the schools you interview with will even know about it, but if they ask just explain, own it, and tell them how you learned from it.
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How important of a topic was it in your interviews?
 
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Contact your judicial affairs department, ask what records they have on you. I'm 98% sure they'll say they don't have anything since they only do when an action is taken. No record= no report.
 
latinclubimperatus said:
Contact your judicial affairs department, ask what records they have on you. I'm 98% sure they'll say they don't have anything since they only do when an action is taken. No record= no report.
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Or better yet, just ask them straight up if its an IA. If they refuse to answer the question directly, resort to the second question (which they have to answer), which is "If a school contacted you guys and asked if I had an IA, what would you say to them". They either say they will or won't disclose it. Easy.
 
latinclubimperatus said:
Contact your judicial affairs department, ask what records they have on you. I'm 98% sure they'll say they don't have anything since they only do when an action is taken. No record= no report.
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If it is an IA, do you agree with others than it’s it a barrier to admission and can be described as a stupid freshman error?
 
See what they say first, then we'll go from there.
 
latinclubimperatus said:
See what they say first, then we'll go from there.
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So I called the judicial office, and she said that they have the warning email in my conduct file. They said they would only release if I gave permission to the school. The person I spoke to also said that this is a rather minor infraction that happened about 3 weeks into my freshman year and on my first ever assignment.

Again, I plan on reporting it. I also will talk about what I learned and why the lesson was important. I totally own up for this mistake.

My only fear is that my first two years of not great academic performance 3.0gpa and this IA is basically game over. I other was excelled the last two years taking multiple upper division courses per semester and got a near 4.0 my last two years. Otherwise everything including mcat is pretty solid.

Thanks for everyone’s feedback by the way.
 
Newton1$ said:
So I called the judicial office, and she said that they have the warning email in my conduct file. They said they would only release if I gave permission to the school. The person I spoke to also said that this is a rather minor infraction that happened about 3 weeks into my freshman year and on my first ever assignment.

Again, I plan on reporting it. I also will talk about what I learned and why the lesson was important. I totally own up for this mistake.

My only fear is that my first two years of not great academic performance 3.0gpa and this IA is basically game over. I other was excelled the last two years taking multiple upper division courses per semester and got a near 4.0 my last two years. Otherwise everything including mcat is pretty solid.

Thanks for everyone’s feedback by the way.
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Did you ask about getting it removed?
 
Robin-jay said:
Under AMCAS rules, getting removed would still mean he would have to report it as it was still an IA.
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That's a bollocks rule that no one should follow, that defeats the whole purpose.
 
latinclubimperatus said:
That's a bollocks rule that no one should follow, that defeats the whole purpose.
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It's a bollocks rule because it requires you to report when you've done something that resulted in an IA and prevents you from hiding that fact from med schools? Just because you get it removed doesn't mean it didn't happen. If you were an adcom, wouldn't you want to know about any issues your applicants have had, whether they've managed to get them removed or not?

Also probably not smart to encourage people to disregard AMCAS rules, venting or not.
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
It's a bollocks rule because it requires you to report when you've done something that resulted in an IA and prevents you from hiding that fact from med schools? Just because you get it removed doesn't mean it didn't happen. If you were an adcom, wouldn't you want to know about any issues your applicants have had, whether they've managed to get them removed or not?

Also probably not smart to encourage people to disregard AMCAS rules, venting or not.
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The whole point of getting something expunged is so it doesn't follow your record and hold you back. Otherwise there's no point in even bothering with it.
 
latinclubimperatus said:
The whole point of getting something expunged is so it doesn't follow your record and hold you back. Otherwise there's no point in even bothering with it.
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That's the point of expungement of criminal conduct but breaking school rules is a different ball of wax. If AMCAS says all actions taken by your academic instutition due to an infraction of school rules must be reported, no exceptions, then that is what should be done by the applicant. The adcom can sort out whether the infraction was so heinous that the person should not be given a seat in medical school or if it was a learning experience from which the applicant has emerged with wisdom and maturity.
 
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LizzyM said:
That's the point of expungement of criminal conduct but breaking school rules is a different ball of wax. If AMCAS says all actions taken by your academic instutition due to an infraction of school rules must be reported, no exceptions, then that is what should be done by the applicant. The adcom can sort out whether the infraction was so heinous that the person should not be given a seat in medical school or if it was a learning experience from which the applicant has emerged with wisdom and maturity.
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What's the old adage about where nice guys finish?
 
I sleep fine if I don't admit someone who did something really horrible (something that would get a current medical student kicked out of school) or who has no remorse for an IA that resulted in a suspension or expulsion. I also sleep fine knowing that we give the benefit of the doubt to applicants who did stupid things in undergrad, got caught, learned a lesson and straightened themselves out. This includes booze, pot, a carton of milk on a fire escape, and campus hijinx of various kinds.

I do worry that people would rather lie by omission on the AMCAS application than owe up to an IA that would not preclude admission to medical school. Lying by omission is taken very seriously.
 
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LizzyM said:
I sleep fine if I don't admit someone who did something really horrible (something that would get a current medical student kicked out of school) or who has no remorse for an IA that resulted in a suspension or expulsion. I also sleep fine knowing that we give the benefit of the doubt to applicants who did stupid things in undergrad, got caught, learned a lesson and straightened themselves out. This includes booze, pot, a carton of milk on a fire escape, and campus hijinx of various kinds.

I do worry that people would rather lie by omission on the AMCAS application than owe up to an IA that would not preclude admission to medical school. Lying by omission is taken very seriously.
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I also sleep fine even knowing that we're the only thing that stands between dishonest students and patients.

I've advised a number of SDNers who have gotten into med school (yes, including MD schools) who had infractions like OP.
 
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latinclubimperatus said:
The whole point of getting something expunged is so it doesn't follow your record and hold you back. Otherwise there's no point in even bothering with it.
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Institutional Action: Medical schools need to know if you were ever the recipient of any institutional action resulting from unacceptable academic performance or a conduct violation, even if such action did not interrupt your enrollment, require you to withdraw, or does not appear on your official transcripts due to institutional policy or personal petition.
AAMC institutional action - Yahoo Search Results
 
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LizzyM said:
I sleep fine if I don't admit someone who did something really horrible (something that would get a current medical student kicked out of school) or who has no remorse for an IA that resulted in a suspension or expulsion. I also sleep fine knowing that we give the benefit of the doubt to applicants who did stupid things in undergrad, got caught, learned a lesson and straightened themselves out. This includes booze, pot, a carton of milk on a fire escape, and campus hijinx of various kinds.

I do worry that people would rather lie by omission on the AMCAS application than owe up to an IA that would not preclude admission to medical school. Lying by omission is taken very seriously.
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Thank you everyone for your feedback, though I think the conversation definitely ended up straying away from my intentions. I am nonetheless going to report the situation as it happened. @LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn, I hope the people who read my application have the same amount of compassion and forgiveness as you guys have shown. I started off college with an extremely stupid mistake, and I followed it with mediocre grades. I learned my lesson form the incident and I learned my mistakes as a student and I turned my entire life around and gotten near perfect scores for the last half of school. Hopefully medical schools look at the person who is applying, not the one who made mistakes.
 
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