Minorities in Pharmacy

[akaykay]

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I have read all of the post, and just wanted to buzz in w/ my .02 cents.

For just a little background - My culture is considered a minority (Jewish) even though my color is not. I just wanted to illustrate a parallel. I feel strongly about the strength of community and what it means for people as a whole.

Jewish people (Hebrews) were enslaved from before the birth of Christ (if you follow that) until around the late 1940's. Since that time our one country has been constantly attacked/ invaded. I would say that the Jewish people of the world have had a pretty rough go, just like those from Africa.

Most notably - everything Jewish people created (most were european) prior to the 1930's was completely loss by the end of WWII.

Yet you dont see anyone questioning a Jewish person's ability to accel. If you go by public opinion (and that's what most stereotypes are), most people believe Jewish people to be highly intelligent and have business savvy. There is not an affirmative action slot for a Jewish student at your college. You wont find any handouts for my people. The reason being we simply dont need it.

The success Jewish people have comes from our families and our work ethic. It was never a question whether or not I would be a highly educated person. I was expected to earn high grades. I was expected to get a job and earn my way. My parent's are not rich, but they are hard working and provided most of what I needed until the age of sixteen.

Its obvious to me why my older brother is a doctor, and why eventually I will be. I have the drive, and God gave me the intellect and the strength to pursue it.

If Jewish people can do it, after having been enslaved for thousands of years - I see no reason that any other group cannot have similar results. More importantly - I see no reason why those groups cannot find success without the government forcing it upon the people of this country. To this I am simply referring to affirmative action in college admissions and college grants. My people didnt need it - and nor do yours. The only way equality is established is by the members of society believing each other are equal. By accepting grants, receiving different admissions criteria (all public universities do), and generally using the governemnt crutch - you will never remove the stereotype of inequality. Thats a fact - like it or not

~above~

Sorry the post was so long - I guess it just stroke a nerve

Before you attack my response, I would just like to say I am half Israeli/half African-American. And I don't agree with you 100%. In America, African Americans have been severly discriminated, segregated, and have experienced constant institutionalized racism. Not to say that Jewish people have not experienced the same, but that our socio-economic background is such that it cannot be compared to African Americans. Although we do not all come from wealthy or rich families, we have a strong-knit community that supports each other, and for historical reasons we are more financially capable of accomplishing the things we have accomplished. You can not say that "If Jewish people can do it, after having been enslaved for thousands of years - I see no reason that any other group cannot have similar results." because African Americans continue to experience racism on a stronger level. Everybody thinks that admission officers give minorities points for being a minority. but that's not the case. A minority will have a privilege over a caucasian if they have socio-economic reasons that adversely affected their education and equivalent gpa, test scores, etc. Just like a poor caucasian will be chosen over a rich caucasian given the same academic background (g.pa, test scores). Also, pharmacy schools and the pharmacy field in general are really not diversified. They need more people of different backgrounds to be able to relate to the very diverse customers they help. But like I said, that person has to be competitive.

 

[aboveliquidice]

African Americans have been severly discriminated, segregated, and have experienced constant institutionalized racism. Not to say that Jewish people have not experienced the same, but that our socio-economic background is such that it cannot be compared to African Americans.QUOTE]

What you say about discrimination is true - you have experienced it - but your belief that the african socio-economic issue now is drastically different from that of Jews in years passed is incorrect. I made a point of talking about WWII because afterwards, Jewish people had nothing. No houses, no businesses - nothing. They didnt have a community if you want to get down to it. Families were torn asunder - after which Jews experienced backlashes both here and abroad. People thought the Jewish people had caused the war. Discrimination against Jewish people goes way back, and persists even today. Jewish communites were built from the ground up - similar to what has happened with african americans since the end of slavery (and subsequent right's movement). It does not begin with the elderly - or even the parents - community begins with the young adults building a common future.

You commented on the historical reasons Jews have for success... What historical reasons are you referring to??? Aside from being a hard group of people, I dont see any. All that was lost was replaced. At some point, Jewish people became successful. They had stresses from society, just as african's have today. To be fair - no two situations can ever be identical. I have empathy for all minorities because success truly is more difficult. That however, does not allow people to ignore the facts of life. If equality in society and education is what is desired - then you have to be willing to do so without aid. What is unfortunate is how when someone says we should get rid of AA, its seen as an attack instead of an important step in the right direction.

I know you stated that AA is based more on socio-economic situation vice race. That is only partially true. There are a certain % of slots left open specifically for minorites. These are positions that no one can compete for unless they are a minority. These slots inevitably have different GPA/Score requirements due to a limited # of applicants. A white student cannot compete for a minority spot - however, a minority can compete for a white student's. This has absolutely nothing to do with socio-economics. There are other factors of which I have excluded for simplicity - but the gist is there.

Honestly - I did not feel that your post was attacking mine - nor is this one intended to attack you. I have a place in my heart for people that face adversity (my family, my community, our Nation). I myself have faced it, and I am the better for it. If (and when) we find success, it will be all the more sweeter for the difficult journey we walked to obtain it.

~above~

 

[damon]

I see this thread has somehow made the quantum leap from a debate about minorities receiving affirmative action to the holocaust. Bravo!

 

[dgroulx]

I'm older than most of you here and can vouch for aboveliquidice's description of being a Jew after World War II.

I remember getting to go to work with my grandfather when I was little. His coworkers all had tattoos on their arms. They all had Germanic accents, but managed to come to this country, learn a new language, and find a job.

The Jews all lived together in the same neighborhood. My dad lived in a part of LA called Fairfax. It was considered to be a Jewish ghetto. His high school was all Jewish. He was on the football team. Their cheer was "icky-yicky-yicky-yam, we're the boys who eat no ham. We're not rough and we're not tough, but boy do we fight." He was also in a street gang called "the titans".

All of this was in the 1940's. By the time I was born in the 1950's, I still experienced much discrimination. I still see it today, but not to the same extent. Maybe the Jews were able to overcome the discrimination because they did not have a different skin color. All we had to do was change our last names.

 

[aboveliquidice]

I see this thread has somehow made the quantum leap from a debate about minorities receiving affirmative action to the holocaust. Bravo!

Quantum leap was a great show... but what does that have to do with affirmative action??? Are we talking about TV shows now???

 

[BlkPharm1985]

Of course at some time or another most ethnicities and races and whatever have been enslaved and that I do not disagree with. But lets say with the argument of the jewish who are here...YOU CHOSE to come to the United States and you were not enslaved IN the United States.

African Americans did not CHOOSE to come here and we and native americans were ENSLAVED in the UNITED STATES in America not TOO long ago we were. And everyone was allowed to be any place, buy property across the country and eat at any restaraunt due to their skin. Ask yourself a question were blacks able to do that 50 years ago, hell we can even look at court cases from the 80's, the 90's, 2000's..... So there is inequality thrown at african americans across the board not only throughout education and employment..on so many different levels.

And people on this thread have said due to qualified candidates they should be awarded, regardless of race, and affirmative action has no need to exist. But there is a strong need for A. Action... Im 21 and have experienced so many things, and so much slader for the color of my skin. And for people to say that employers will just do whats right and give the job to the more qualified person...I can talk about an instance for myself that happened this month.

A professor of mine announced to the class about a pharmacy tech position at a local pharmacy and how they needed 3 students for the places to be filled. The same exact day...I went to the pharmacy, with a resume' and filled out the application, and even assisted an elderly customer while I was just waiting in the small store and assisted her with everything, and keep in mind the head pharmacists saw everything. I had previously worked in 2 undergraduate labs and had a 3.7 GPA. Now there were no minorities at all that worked in the store period, but that was not a problem.

So a few weeks later I call and ask about the THREE positions they had open, and she inquired that they had been filled. So me being me I wanted to know who these positions were filled by so I went by the store for a few days, and it happened that the 3 people who got hired were also from my class. So at class I asked did they submit a resume', only one had out of the 3. All of their GPA's were lower than mine, and no one had ANY experience. And to put the icing on the cake, no one had an interview and they said they talked for a second and was nearly hired on the spot, she got back to them in ONE day. All of them turned in applications after I did and to no surprise they were all White.

However I understand not all people are this way but, this is a prime example of inequality on just a small scale.

 

[sprinkle0420]

I agree with you blackpharm1985...being a mexican-american female myself I have encountered similiar situations such as the one you have mentioned above. If one looks, its almost frightening to think that it wasn't that far back in time that segregation was a reality. I get annoyed at some ofthe comments made by a few people in this particular thread...that minorities expect special treatment and this is not the case! If anything, we are still fighting for equality and if one looks at the racial makeup of colleges throughout america, it is quite obvious that there is still alot of work to be done to reach that goal. I honestly believe that minorites such as myself have to work ten times harder to prove ourselves to our upper-middle class, white counterparts whom often times automatically assume that we were accepted to our respective colleges merely for the color of our skin and not our intellectual abilities.

 

[UN4GETTABLE]

@ liquidice, I agree with most of what you have said, and can empathize with you in the fact that your people have a history of oppresion just as mine have. I've often wondered why other groups who have gone through oppression seem to get back on their feet and fluorish, while a lot of african-americans are still struggling. The only thing that I can think of is the community. I don't know many Jewish people, but from what I have seen the strength of the community is very important to the culture (correct me if I'm wrong). The black-american COMMUNITY is not united. It's very divided, and I think that started when slavery was abolished (but my theories on that are for a whole other discussion). Point being, the community is not strong, or at least not as strong as it should be. Part of the reason is because we were forced to leave our homeland. We came to this continent having to forsake everything we knew, our culture, our way of speaking...everything--and we were forced to assimilate to the ways of, well...white people. I wasn't a victim of slavery (thank God) but it still hurts to know that I can't really trace my ancestry back to know where I'm really from because my people were forced to leave Africa. I know I have roots there, but which country am I from? which tribe? I'll never know.

I think that at one point affirmative action was absolutely necessary for blacks as a whole. It's not fair to enslave a people, not even educate them and treat them like crap, decide to set them free and they're supposed to have the same odds of making it as someone else? It's not going to happen. So, yes at one point we needed affirmative action, and I believe it should still exist not just for blacks but for anyone who is living in poverty or goes to a crappy school and wants to make a better life for themselves. It's so easy for people to say, "well, you got a bad hand, life's not fair" and go on living their cozy comfy life (and I'm not saying anyone here said that, just in general). And I know that many people have made it without help, but just because they have doesn't mean help shouldn't be offered. That's just my opinion. For those that want to slack and receive a handout because of their skin color, I say that's a shame because that person isn't doing anything to eradicate stereotypes and advance the EFFORTS put in by their own people. But to me, the socioeconomic barrier is much bigger than the race barrier--because you all know the saying, and it's true: the rich keep getting rich and the poor keep getting poorer.

not to mention that there has been no other slavery in world history like the slavery of africans in america who travelled the middle passage. our community was divided back then, by design. haven't you heard of divide and conquer? well that is EXACTLY what the owners of slaves and the american government wanted to do, and that is what they did. so the division of the black community happened long before abolition of slavery. black people in america are STILL suffering from that. in fact, it is still going on. i agree if you work hard and have a good support system and with God's help, you can do ANYTHING!!!! but from my own personal experience, that is easier said than done and it is easy to sit on the sideline and try to analyze why this, that or the other about black americans, but it is quite another thing when you have to live and face the challenges and obstacles of your skin color EVERY DAY. most black people cannot hide the fact that they are black (if they wanted to). they are immediately judged and their personalities are summed up within seconds before they have even had a chance to speak, just because of their skin color. yes, there are other minorities in america, but they are here on their own will (or their ancestors were here). and the fact STILL remains that black americans ARE NOT the minority of choice.

And just so no one thinks i am talking out of the side of my neck:

BS - Public Relations MAGNA CUM LAUDE
4.0 - pharmacy pre-requisite classes

so ANY spot that i get offered in pharmacy shcool is becuse i have EARNED it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[collinisem]

I have absoultely heard of divide and conquer, and I can agree that blacks were divided physically before slavery was abolished. I still think that they became more divided mentally AFTER slavery was abolished-but that's a whole other topic. I can appreciate what some of the people of Jewish background have offered, and I think it's important not to turn this into a "who's plight is worse" discussion. Both groups have gone through horrific events and it should be left at that. However, when you are talking about what it is to be BLACK in America it is VERY true that for many this is not the skin color of choice (and that's fine because I love my brown skin).

I hope I've made it clear that I'm for Affirmative Action when given to the appropriate, QUALIFIED candidate. Blkpharm's story is a very real issue that many black Americans have to face on a regular basis. It's one thing to not be qualified for a position and have it offered to you to fill a quota--it's another thing to BE QUALIFIED AND STILL not be given a chance based on skin color <--<--that is why AA is in place. It's at least an attempt to dismantle the more subtle forms of discrimination, because people are rarely bold enough to do it to our faces these days--not to mention the fact that it's not legal. I just think that many people (especially those who are not in a minority group and don't have to deal with this) want to turn the other way and pretend that racsim doesn't exist. Yeah, people don't run around calling me the "n" word, but there are bigots and racists in this world who are alive and well. And some of them are big CEOs and hiring managers who wouldn't give my resume a second glance because I'm black and that must mean I'm unqualified. Some people just don't want to believe that and they don't want to talk about it, because if it doesn't affect them then who cares?

 

[UN4GETTABLE]

I have absoultely heard of divide and conquer, and I can agree that blacks were divided physically before slavery was abolished. I still think that they became more divided mentally AFTER slavery was abolished-but that's a whole other topic. I can appreciate what some of the people of Jewish background have offered, and I think it's important not to turn this into a "who's plight is worse" discussion. Both groups have gone through horrific events and it should be left at that. However, when you are talking about what it is to be BLACK in America it is VERY true that for many this is not the skin color of choice (and that's fine because I love my brown skin).

I hope I've made it clear that I'm for Affirmative Action when given to the appropriate, QUALIFIED candidate. Blkpharm's story is a very real issue that many black Americans have to face on a regular basis. It's one thing to not be qualified for a position and have it offered to you to fill a quota--it's another thing to BE QUALIFIED AND STILL not be given a chance based on skin color <--<--that is why AA is in place. It's at least an attempt to dismantle the more subtle forms of discrimination, because people are rarely bold enough to do it to our faces these days--not to mention the fact that it's not legal. I just think that many people (especially those who are not in a minority group and don't have to deal with this) want to turn the other way and pretend that racsim doesn't exist. Yeah, people don't run around calling me the "n" word, but there are bigots and racists in this world who are alive and well. And some of them are big CEOs and hiring managers who wouldn't give my resume a second glance because I'm black and that must mean I'm unqualified. Some people just don't want to believe that and they don't want to talk about it, because if it doesn't affect them then who cares?

AMEN, SISTAH!!!

 

[northstar]

Affirmative action may get your foot in the door BUT your own talent and ability will keep you there. AA gives those from historically oppressed races the OPPORTUNITY to succeed. However, if you cannot manage to make the grades and pass the rotations you will not stay there. How many people on this thread know how dehumanizing and demeaning it feels to be treated differently due to circumstances beyond your control(ie. skin color/race)?
I graduated from a top 10 university and I can't tell you how many times I stayed in lab twice as long as my white peers because noone would partner with me. It happened over and over again until the TA actually started assigning lab partners. I've also been denied jobs. One time in O-Chem1 I approached the professor to inquire about my grade, I had a 92% and i wanted to know if that was an A or an A-. The professor looked at the grade then looked at me and said "YOU got an A" I replied of course I did why wouldn't I? I also stated that I was completely sure that I would recieve an A in the course, which I did. I was one of 5 african americans in the class (out of 100 students). Do you think this professor, who happened to be chinese would have said that to a white, asian, indian, or middle eastern person? Until the field is level and students from all socioeconomic backgrounds have access to THE SAME K-12 education and people in positions of authority (professors, hiring managers etc.) do not judge people by the color of their skin instead of that individuals merit America NEEDS affirmative action.

 

[dgroulx]

Affirmative action may get your foot in the door BUT your own talent and ability will keep you there. AA gives those from historically oppressed races the OPPORTUNITY to succeed. However, if you cannot manage to make the grades and pass the rotations you will not stay there. How many people on this thread know how dehumanizing and demeaning it feels to be treated differently due to circumstances beyond your control(ie. skin color/race)?
I graduated from a top 10 university and I can't tell you how many times I stayed in lab twice as long as my white peers because noone would partner with me. It happened over and over again until the TA actually started assigning lab partners. I've also been denied jobs. One time in O-Chem1 I approached the professor to inquire about my grade, I had a 92% and i wanted to know if that was an A or an A-. The professor looked at the grade then looked at me and said "YOU got an A" I replied of course I did why wouldn't I? I also stated that I was completely sure that I would recieve an A in the course, which I did. I was one of 5 african americans in the class (out of 100 students). Do you think this professor, who happened to be chinese would have said that to a white, asian, indian, or middle eastern person? Until the field is level and students from all socioeconomic backgrounds have access to THE SAME K-12 education and people in positions of authority (professors, hiring managers etc.) do not judge people by the color of their skin instead of that individuals merit America NEEDS affirmative action.

It makes me angry to hear stories like yours. At my undergrad school, we were a close-knit groups of students. There were whites, blacks & asians. We were all friends and there were never issues about lab partners. When you don't see it happening, you don't realize that these types of incidents still occur.😡

At UF, we have very little diversity. Since they only look at grades & PCAT, and don't normally interview students, there is no discrimination. I believe that our numbers reflect the same percentages of the general population who apply to pharmacy school. In undergrad, I only met one African American who wanted to become a pharmacist. The others all wanted to go to med school.

 

[Shrami]

I have read all of the post, and just wanted to buzz in w/ my .02 cents.

For just a little background - My culture is considered a minority (Jewish) even though my color is not. I just wanted to illustrate a parallel. I feel strongly about the strength of community and what it means for people as a whole.

Jewish people (Hebrews) were enslaved from before the birth of Christ (if you follow that) until around the late 1940's. Since that time our one country has been constantly attacked/ invaded. I would say that the Jewish people of the world have had a pretty rough go, just like those from Africa.

Most notably - everything Jewish people created (most were european) prior to the 1930's was completely loss by the end of WWII.

Yet you dont see anyone questioning a Jewish person's ability to accel. If you go by public opinion (and that's what most stereotypes are), most people believe Jewish people to be highly intelligent and have business savvy. There is not an affirmative action slot for a Jewish student at your college. You wont find any handouts for my people. The reason being we simply dont need it.

The success Jewish people have comes from our families and our work ethic. It was never a question whether or not I would be a highly educated person. I was expected to earn high grades. I was expected to get a job and earn my way. My parent's are not rich, but they are hard working and provided most of what I needed until the age of sixteen.

Its obvious to me why my older brother is a doctor, and why eventually I will be. I have the drive, and God gave me the intellect and the strength to pursue it.

If Jewish people can do it, after having been enslaved for thousands of years - I see no reason that any other group cannot have similar results. More importantly - I see no reason why those groups cannot find success without the government forcing it upon the people of this country. To this I am simply referring to affirmative action in college admissions and college grants. My people didnt need it - and nor do yours. The only way equality is established is by the members of society believing each other are equal. By accepting grants, receiving different admissions criteria (all public universities do), and generally using the governemnt crutch - you will never remove the stereotype of inequality. Thats a fact - like it or not

~above~

Sorry the post was so long - I guess it just stroke a nerve

The privilege of white skin is very much underestimated here. I went to a small private high school in the mid-west with mostly students of German descent - - and of these was also a significant Jewish population. They made no mention of their Jewishness outside their homes, and nobody knew. Those who did "look Jewish" needed only claim an Italian grandfather or some distant Cherokee ancestor and got away with it.

On the other hand, you can tell a black person a mile away (even with bad vision!!). You can compare and contrast black plight with jewish plight all you want, but it seems almost ludicrous to do so without taking into account some key marked differences.

 

[aboveliquidice]

The privilege of white skin is very much underestimated here. I went to a small private high school in the mid-west with mostly students of German descent - - and of these was also a significant Jewish population. They made no mention of their Jewishness outside their homes, and nobody knew. Those who did "look Jewish" needed only claim an Italian grandfather or some distant Cherokee ancestor and got away with it.

On the other hand, you can tell a black person a mile away (even with bad vision!!). You can compare and contrast black plight with jewish plight all you want, but it seems almost ludicrous to do so without taking into account some key marked differences.

Okay - there is a difference between compare and contrast and drawing a parallel. One highlights differences - while the other highlights similarities... I never over, nor underestimated anything. In fact - I made no mention of color on purpose. Anytime you highlight your differences as a cause for a negative situation - it becomes an excuse.

I wanted to put forth the notion that Jewish people are finding success due to their communities and faith. This is the cornerstone of success. You cannot find it through any other means. It cannot be given to you. It cannot be earned in an environment of inequality. I disagree with what you are hinting at - Jews are more likely to succeed because you cant recognize them. Go to Miami or New York, and tell me if you cant recognize a Jewish temple or the people who go to it.

There is no denying that some people think backwards. They will never get used to the concept that all men are equal under God. But dont let that shape your future - and certainly dont let it shape your culture. That is exactly what is happening right now with the African culture in America. AA is not progressive - its crippling. Banding together, developing a culture that fosters hard work and families is what is needed.

In America today, you dont have to stand for piss-poor schools. You dont have to live in a ghetto. You dont have to accept discrimination. Sure, some people might want you to - Screw them. Look to yourselves, and you will persevere.

~above~

 

[dgroulx]

On the other hand, you can tell a black person a mile away (even with bad vision!!). You can compare and contrast black plight with jewish plight all you want, but it seems almost ludicrous to do so without taking into account some key marked differences.

You mean slavery vs mass extermination?🙂

No one is trying to say that it's harder to be one minority over the other. Read aboveliquidice's last post. The African American community needs to learn that getting a good education is the best way to succeed.

One pharmacist that I worked with at a rotation was African American and from a poor section of Tallahassee. She went to FAMU, then went on to a residency. Now she's an extremely talented clinical pharmacist, and married to a financial planner. They spend their free time working with families to help them achieve their goals. She struggled, but now is a success story. Education was the best thing that ever happened to her.

 

[Requiem]

If some of these people, who have responsed with such utter uninformative sensationalistic diatribe have actually gotten into pharmacy school by pretending to have even a modicum of professionalism then I weep for reprocussions of having you people associated to me through the term "colleague".

Forget race, you are acting like disgraces to the human population.
"You can tell a black person a mile away (but not if you're blind lol!!)" and "the power of white skin is underestimated"

People in my grade 7 class doing social studies weren't this stupid.

Please remove yourself from anything relating to the profession of pharmacy, pharmacy school and this board. Go preach on a street corner.

 

[aboveliquidice]

If some of these people, who have responsed with such utter uninformative sensationalistic diatribe have actually gotten into pharmacy school by pretending to have even a modicum of professionalism then I weep for reprocussions of having you people associated to me through the term "colleague".

Forget race, you are acting like disgraces to the human population.
"You can tell a black person a mile away (but not if you're blind lol!!)" and "the power of white skin is underestimated"

People in my grade 7 class doing social studies weren't this stupid.

Please remove yourself from anything relating to the profession of pharmacy, pharmacy school and this board. Go preach on a street corner.

While a bit more blunt than was strictly required - I agree with the general message - If you want to do great things, you have to let go of the bullsh*t that distracts from it. If you cant find a way to do that - then maybe this field isn't for you...

~above~

 

[collinisem]

@ liquidice, I agree with just about everything that you said. I think I stated earlier that the issues with the black community can be pinpointed on the fact there isn't really any unity there. There are a few organizations that are still doing good things, but as a whole the concept of unity within the community is almost nonexistent.

I also agree with you in that AA is not progressive for ANYONE in the long run. I talked to a good friend of mine this week (who is white) and somehow this topic came up. He told me that a while ago he applied for a job at a company (where he was completely qualified) and he wasn't called back. A friend of his told him that the company was only looking for minorites--he didn't believe him. He filled out another application, changed his name and his race (to a minority race) and he received a phone call the next day. He was pi**ed as he had every right to be, and I would have been to.

The thing is, there is no happy medium here. Why? Because this all has to do with people's minds and the way that they think. People have to acknowledge that there are individuals in this world who STILL harbor racist attitudes and views toward minority groups. This can make it extremely difficult for a minority (who is QUALIFIED--no one is saying to lower the bar) to be given a chance. That is REAL. I know too many people that have experienced this in their life. At the same time, though, whites can experience situations similar to what happened to my friend--not to mention the fact that many companies just use quotas to recruit for diversity. But once the quota has been filled, then what? Are other qualified minorities not given a chance? because quotas don't have the power to change mentality.

What this all comes down to is the way that people think about themselves especially in relation to other people. Am I superior or inferior? The answer is that we're all equal--but try telling that to a country with millions of people that have descended from an era of outright in your face white supremacy. It runs deeper than people think and more importantly, it runs deeper than people care to acknowledge. And I'm not making a generalization saying that all whites are racist--far from it, and I have known some blacks to be racist toward white people as well. None of it is okay. But the problem is a complex issue because it deals with the psyche of INDIVIDUALS, and nobody can regulate that.

This has turned into an interesting topic and I've seen some very valid arguments and POVs that have helped me to see things differently as well. It's easy to get upset and *heated* when anyone brings up a racial discussion. But this thread has challenged me and probably other people too, to be more open to someone else's point of view.

 

[Shrami]

If some of these people, who have responsed with such utter uninformative sensationalistic diatribe have actually gotten into pharmacy school by pretending to have even a modicum of professionalism then I weep for reprocussions of having you people associated to me through the term "colleague".

Forget race, you are acting like disgraces to the human population.
"You can tell a black person a mile away (but not if you're blind lol!!)" and "the power of white skin is underestimated"

People in my grade 7 class doing social studies weren't this stupid.

Please remove yourself from anything relating to the profession of pharmacy, pharmacy school and this board. Go preach on a street corner.

You have deliberately changed the wording in these quotes to invent your own meaning. I advise you to go back to my original post and re-read it. This time carefully please!

I was determined to ignore this ranting but perhaps I must clarify myself. liquidice had made a post comparing blacks to jews (because of "similar" history). My point is that it is inherently flawed to make broad comparisons between any two modes without taking key differences in these modes into account - that of skin color being ONLY ONE example in this particular case!!

And before giving me pious advice on alternate professions, it may behoove you to brush up on your reading and comprehension skills first!

 

[aboveliquidice]

You have deliberately changed the wording in these quotes to invent your own meaning. I advise you to go back to my original post and re-read it. This time carefully please!

I was determined to ignore this ranting but perhaps I must clarify myself. liquidice had made a post comparing blacks to jews (because of "similar" history). My point is that it is inherently flawed to make broad comparisons between any two modes without taking key differences in these modes into account - that of skin color being ONLY ONE example in this particular case!!

And before giving me pious advice on alternate professions, it may behoove you to brush up on your reading and comprehension skills first!

...and I see you choose to avoid reading comprehension as well. What I illustrated before was a parallel. Not a compare and contrast (as I stated in my last post). They are simply not the same thing. If you are trying to point out that the African culture is different from that of the Hebrews - I would have to say your right. Of course they are differences. Both have great histories, spanning thousands of years. No one here is belittling your stance - I was talking about similarities - you are stating differences. I think drawing upon how we are similar is far more important (and constructive) than how we are different.

I spent five long years in the military - the first thing they do when you arrive at boot camp is strip you of your identity. You have no name, no background, no family. You only have your heart and your brothers. The people that stand beside you. They come from all walks of life and socioeconomic situations. It doesn’t matter who they were or where they came from. What matters is that they are your brothers, and that they have your back.

If you couldn't tell from my initial posts - I don’t buy into racism, and you shouldn't either. The differences you see don’t matter - its the similarities that count. If you cant find common ground with the people of your society - you will always be separate, different, and unequal.

 

[northstar]

How do you suggest we (African Americans) let go of the distractions? Bleach our skin, change our hair texture, and other phenotypic characteristics. Since this is the only way that distractions/obstacles will be removed from our paths. Does anyone have any idea what we endure on a daily basis? We are SECOND CLASS citizens! Are you aware of the mental and emotional restraint it takes to live in a country which views us this way? Without white skin privilege, intact families, adequate schools, and decent neighborhoods would any of you (non minorities) be where you are today?

 

[aboveliquidice]

How do you suggest we (African Americans) let go of the distractions? Bleach our skin, change our hair texture, and other phenotypic characteristics. Since this is the only way that distractions/obstacles will be removed from our paths. Does anyone have any idea what we endure on a daily basis? We are SECOND CLASS citizens! Are you aware of the mental and emotional restraint it takes to live in a country which views us this way? Without white skin privilege, intact families, adequate schools, and decent neighborhoods would any of you (non minorities) be where you are today?

Your only second class when you choose to believe it... and what country do you live in??? is there any situation in America that is NOT optional??? If you don't like where you live - you can receive a government grant to move elsewhere. Don't like your community - move. Unhappy with your "F" school - in the state of Florida - you can get a voucher (paid by the government) to go to any school or your choice - public or private. Granted, these things are difficult to do. Its hard just picking up and moving somewhere - but the fact remains, its not because it CANT be done. If your families are not intact - whose fault can that be??? No one forces that upon you.

I'm not saying your plight is not real - but you need to understand that your future is only limited by you. This concept needs to be instilled in your children. Family needs to become a priority. When this happens - all the other bulls*t becomes irrelevant -

There is no stopper on your potential, or that of your culture. America is the most diverse country on the planet - and it will continue to be in the future. The people need not change - only our perceptions. I try to do my part, but thinking like your second class tells me you haven't done enough to change your perception.

~above~

 

[Farmercyst]

Here's an off the wall question. Given current entrance demographics, can a white male from a non-disadvantage, but not priveleged background be considered a minority in today's pharmacy schools? It seems to me most students, at least from stats I've read, are: female, generally accepted minority races, and lastly white males. I'm not saying that its fair/unfair, just that it seems to be that way currently. I'd say white males are an overrepresented majority in the actual profession. It just seems that they are underrepresented in most schools.

 

[dgroulx]

How do you suggest we (African Americans) let go of the distractions? Bleach our skin, change our hair texture, and other phenotypic characteristics. Since this is the only way that distractions/obstacles will be removed from our paths. Does anyone have any idea what we endure on a daily basis? We are SECOND CLASS citizens! Are you aware of the mental and emotional restraint it takes to live in a country which views us this way? Without white skin privilege, intact families, adequate schools, and decent neighborhoods would any of you (non minorities) be where you are today?

There was a huge article in the St. Pete Times a couple of years ago. It went on for several days and I think it won some awards. They interviewed African American students in various schools, their parents at home, friends, etc. Overwhelmingly, the kids that were doing well in school were pushed by their parents to get good grades and do something with their lives. There were too few of these kids, though. Most of the kids thought it was better to become an athlete and make millions, that getting an education was "white". They wanted to stay different and not conform. It's a shame that getting an education to better yourself is viewed that way.

There are minorities that live in my neighborhood. These people are successful, professional and move into predominantly white neighborhoods. They are accepted here. Their kids are out playing with all the other kids. Would these people be accepted in a traditional black neighborhood?

 

[UN4GETTABLE]

Your only second class when you choose to believe it... and what country do you live in??? is there any situation in America that is NOT optional??? If you don't like where you live - you can receive a government grant to move elsewhere. Don't like your community - move. Unhappy with your "F" school - in the state of Florida - you can get a voucher (paid by the government) to go to any school or your choice - public or private. Granted, these things are difficult to do. Its hard just picking up and moving somewhere - but the fact remains, its not because it CANT be done. If your families are not intact - whose fault can that be??? No one forces that upon you.

I'm not saying your plight is not real - but you need to understand that your future is only limited by you. This concept needs to be instilled in your children. Family needs to become a priority. When this happens - all the other bulls*t becomes irrelevant -

There is no stopper on your potential, or that of your culture. America is the most diverse country on the planet - and it will continue to be in the future. The people need not change - only our perceptions. I try to do my part, but thinking like your second class tells me you haven't done enough to change your perception.

~above~

So, how many days as a Black American person have ANY of you (who aren't Black) lived in this here country called AMERICA? I'm going to step out on a limb here and say NONE OF YOU have. As I stated previously, if you have never experienced what it is like to be a Black American in this country, then you REALLY don't know what you are talking about. You are entitled to your individual opinions, but to talk like, or to present it like you have some kind of insight as to what it takes to be a successful Black person in America is completely beyond me. If you are a white person in this country (or you appear to be white in this country) you automatically have the gift of being able to succeed further AND faster in this country than those who aren't. Yes, you are right, white folks do have the option to move out of ghettos, send their kids to good schools and basically have access to the means to get where they want to go, while those of us who do not look like you in this country do not have access to those SAME tools!!!!! And when we find out about them, 80% of the time it is too late. Yeah, we can do it and we ARE doing it, but it is taking us longer. The political leaders in this country hold the "good 'ol boy" value system close to their hearts and it is quite evident in the way that Black folks are treated in this country daily - on jobs, in shcools, in communites, in healthcare, in education, in restaurants, at stores, driving down the street...you get the point. White folks don't have to deal with the obstacles and adversities that we do. And in MY opinion, ANY white person who is NOT successful is their own fault. Because like it or not (and ask ANY person who is considered a minority race/ethnicity in America) white privilege is alive and well.

I will agree with one point though, the cycle in my community needs to be broken and it starts at home! But you ALSO need to keep in mind we are not even 150 years out of African slavery in this country and it seems to me like everyone has moved on except for those of us who it was forced upon. Please don't neglect to consider the psychological effects that slavery has left on us. It is REAL. But I forgot, that this is a forum of scientists, not psychologists.

So let me ask YOU: what country do YOU live in? Because I live in America and I'm speaking from EXPERIENCE as a BLACK American in this country. So, please take your "I-know-how-to-live-Black-better-than-you" attitide on!

and BTW, the majority of people utilizing government assistance in America AREN'T Black.

 

[nikegiwa]

America is a very individualized society...so much so that its inhabitants, and even whole groups/subgroups (native or otherwise), begin to internalize some of those individualistic views. In that I mean that in some regards, the self-concern underlying individualism can transform itself into a somewhat negative form...perhaps even narcissism. Even though I have heard a lot of frank, yet objective points on these postings, I have also heard a lot of comments that reek of narcissism. "We've had it harder and that's why we can't get it together even though you did; you don't sympathize with us..." and "No, we've had it harder yet we still got it together; why can't you?" Neither of those views does this topic any justice when taken to such absolutes. (I'm not trying to offend anyone, just my POV.) There is validity in what was said about the Jewish community: they DID endure a horrible experience in the Holocaust, and generally they have succeeded at drastically changing the dismal reality that they inherited...without much outside help. Moreover, many Jews never shared the white privilege and were in fact discriminated against by mainstream America--either because they couldn’t “pass” (very Semitic features and/or names, attire, accents etc), or because they had too much pride in themselves to suppress their identity as Jews. At the same time, however, through the years several (though not all) Jews have succeeded at assimilating (physically, even if not culturally) into mainstream by changing their noses and/or their names to “pass,” so it IS possible that some of them have likely benefited, even if it was unbeknownst to them, from white privilege. It is also important to acknowledge that the experience of African Americans was horrendous as well (the Middle Passage of slavery has been coined the “African Holocaust” by some—and on the other side of the globe, nearly the entire African continent had to endure decades and in some cases centuries of colonization. There have been a plethora of overt and covert methods employed on a large scale to prevent African Americans from accessing opportunities they deserved—and a great deal of these things still occur. At the same time, African Americans have often adopted a martyr complex and have perpetuated many of the problems started by others—even made them worse in several cases.

My point? We shouldn’t just use what we see on the surface to dismiss the words of another just because our experiences have been different. That’s ridiculous. Racism DOES exist and it DOES cause problems…but it is not an excuse to remain a victim. Just because we were handed a particular set of circumstances doesn’t mean we are forced to embrace them. Circumstances may be difficult, but progress, even if minimal, can occur if one makes certain (often challenging) choices and also strives hard. I’m not saying that everything can be overcome, but some successes can be achieved. Let’s all look beyond our biased perceptions as best we can and truly try to hear what the “other side” is saying.

 

[aboveliquidice]

America is a very individualized society...so much so that its inhabitants, and even whole groups/subgroups (native or otherwise), begin to internalize some of those individualistic views. In that I mean that in some regards, the self-concern underlying individualism can transform itself into a somewhat negative form...perhaps even narcissism. Even though I have heard a lot of frank, yet objective points on these postings, I have also heard a lot of comments that reek of narcissism. "We've had it harder and that's why we can't get it together even though you did; you don't sympathize with us..." and "No, we've had it harder yet we still got it together; why can't you?" Neither of those views does this topic any justice when taken to such absolutes. (I'm not trying to offend anyone, just my POV.) There is validity in what was said about the Jewish community: they DID endure a horrible experience in the Holocaust, and generally they have succeeded at drastically changing the dismal reality that they inherited...without much outside help. Moreover, many Jews never shared the white privilege and were in fact discriminated against by mainstream America--either because they couldn’t “pass” (very Semitic features and/or names, attire, accents etc), or because they had too much pride in themselves to suppress their identity as Jews. At the same time, however, through the years several (though not all) Jews have succeeded at assimilating (physically, even if not culturally) into mainstream by changing their noses and/or their names to “pass,” so it IS possible that some of them have likely benefited, even if it was unbeknownst to them, from white privilege. It is also important to acknowledge that the experience of African Americans was horrendous as well (the Middle Passage of slavery has been coined the “African Holocaust” by some—and on the other side of the globe, nearly the entire African continent had to endure decades and in some cases centuries of colonization. There have been a plethora of overt and covert methods employed on a large scale to prevent African Americans from accessing opportunities they deserved—and a great deal of these things still occur. At the same time, African Americans have often adopted a martyr complex and have perpetuated many of the problems started by others—even made them worse in several cases.

My point? We shouldn’t just use what we see on the surface to dismiss the words of another just because our experiences have been different. That’s ridiculous. Racism DOES exist and it DOES cause problems…but it is not an excuse to remain a victim. Just because we were handed a particular set of circumstances doesn’t mean we are forced to embrace them. Circumstances may be difficult, but progress, even if minimal, can occur if one makes certain (often challenging) choices and also strives hard. I’m not saying that everything can be overcome, but some successes can be achieved. Let’s all look beyond our biased perceptions as best we can and truly try to hear what the “other side” is saying.

This thread has had some awesome - thought provoking posts. I have read them, and had to sit for awhile and just think about it. I thought this particular one struck home - I felt it was very informative...

~above~

 

[aboveliquidice]

double post

 

[nikegiwa]

Thanks.🙂

 

[missouri]

Hey,
Lots of pharmacy schools are looking to diversify their student population not only as a requirement for the accrediting body but also because diversity in the student body contributes to improved learning environment, and provides more HCP willing and able to bridge the gap in healthcare disparities.

Look into STLCOP in St. Louis.

 

[Member0304]

Out of a class of 100 I am one of about 5 students who are not minorities so I think you will be alright

 

[Pojman]

Are there any schools that show preference to Caucasian people?