minority advantage?

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RySerr21

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Is there really that big of an advantage being a minority? Will my stats seem more impressive to an admissions comittee if they see that I am half puerto rican?

One day, I hear that being a minority is a huge advantage. The next day I hear that it really makes no difference. Whats the word (can anybody answer with certainty?)
 
...Seeing as you are only half puerto rican, you will only have half the advantages of a full-blooded puerto rican applicant.
 
I dont think it is an advantage as much as it is in Allo schools.
 
Is there really that big of an advantage being a minority? Will my stats seem more impressive to an admissions comittee if they see that I am half puerto rican?

One day, I hear that being a minority is a huge advantage. The next day I hear that it really makes no difference. Whats the word (can anybody answer with certainty?)

There's no certain answer to this. There are going to be some situations where being a minority is an advantage, and some where it's a disadvantage. Depends on the location, the personalities, and lots of other things.

I expect that minority status is an advantage in getting into medical school. There's not a med school in the country, not in the deep south or anywhere, that likes looking homogeneous. You have to go through a committee to get in; committees tend to suppress dickheads. (If your stats suck, however, you lose this advantage.)

I expect that minority status can be a disadvantage during rotations and residency, if you are a minority within that establishment. You have to work with dickheads wherever you go. You'll have supervisors, nurses, instructors, administrators etc. who have already decided what they think of you based on your skin color (as you know). During rotations and residency, the opinions of individuals determine your success. I doubt that you'll see overt racism. I hope it's never an issue. Out here on the west coast you'd have a lynch mob going after any authority that practices racism.

As for later on, I've worked for small and large engineering firms. I'm going to claim that these firms are similar to private medical practice, in that when the group needs another engineer/doctor, they recruit, screen, interview, and mostly reject applicants. Then the group finally finds a candidate who fits the group's needs. A great deal of time and money gets spent on this process. At this point it's half individual opinion, half committee, because in practice a dickhead can own the vote.

When an elite professional group takes on a new member, the group then does some counting. How many women do we have, how many blacks/hispanics/Muslims/GLBT/disabled. Doesn't matter if the group is predominantly female/black/hispanic/Muslim/GLBT/disabled, the counting is going to happen. And in my experience, when a new member is hired, if that member is female/black/hispanic/Muslim/GLBT/disabled, it's commented on and it's viewed as a good thing. If a minority is a good candidate and is NOT hired, it's noticed, commented on, and lamented. And on the backside, there are always some young white guys who are going to make jokes about diversity, and not get it at all, and say everybody's whining and overreacting. Again, on the west coast, when a group hires a minority it's almost like winning a merit badge.

In 20 years in industry I saw a huge increase in tolerance and acceptance. Unfortunately I did NOT see any increase in the number of strong minority candidates. Which sucks.
 
I expect that minority status is an advantage in getting into medical school.

All else held equal; perhaps...

...but not if you're Asian/South Asian.
 
I expect that minority status is an advantage in getting into medical school.
All else held equal; perhaps...

...but not if you're Asian/South Asian.

Empirically, it's a TREMENDOUS advantage to be an Asian med school applicant. Asians are represented WAY out of proportion to the population - 500% representation.

I wrote that long-ass thing with Hispanics and Blacks in mind, but I don't think I'm too far off with respect to trying to break into a white firm if you're Asian. I'm a white chick so I'm way out of my league here, anyway. If you want to start a "URM is unfair to Asians" thread, be my guest.

Asians (uncategorized) as a percentage of the US population: 4.3% (2005)

Asians as a percentage of US allo med school applicants or matriculants: 22% (2005)

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Population#Racial_groups (because I can't find a damned useful thing on the US census site)
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/
 
Empirically, it's a TREMENDOUS advantage to be an Asian med school applicant. Asians are represented WAY out of proportion to the population - 500% representation.

I wrote that long-ass thing with Hispanics and Blacks in mind, but I don't think I'm too far off with respect to trying to break into a white firm if you're Asian. I'm a white chick so I'm way out of my league here, anyway. If you want to start a "URM is unfair to Asians" thread, be my guest.

Asians (uncategorized) as a percentage of the US population: 4.3% (2005)

Asians as a percentage of US allo med school applicants or matriculants: 22% (2005)

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Population#Racial_groups (because I can't find a damned useful thing on the US census site)
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/

But how many apply? I imagine more Asians apply than URMs do.
 
Interesting topic ... and civil so far 🙂

Unfortunately, this thread doesn't quite belong in the osteopathic forum since you're asking about admissions to medical schools and any compounding factors.

As such, it will be moved to pre-osteo.
 
Empirically, it's a TREMENDOUS advantage to be an Asian med school applicant. Asians are represented WAY out of proportion to the population - 500% representation.

I wrote that long-ass thing with Hispanics and Blacks in mind, but I don't think I'm too far off with respect to trying to break into a white firm if you're Asian. I'm a white chick so I'm way out of my league here, anyway. If you want to start a "URM is unfair to Asians" thread, be my guest.

Asians (uncategorized) as a percentage of the US population: 4.3% (2005)

Asians as a percentage of US allo med school applicants or matriculants: 22% (2005)

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Population#Racial_groups (because I can't find a damned useful thing on the US census site)
http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/

I still don't like your logic. I think you have to look at the number of acceptances/ applicants and not look at total population.

for example, according to table 12 of the site you showed me, in 2007:

Asians: 3741/8390=44.6%
White: 11,284/ 24,136=46.8%

This shows that there probably is no difference between being Asian and White applicants. I think your error comes from this:

Made up data:

popA: 5000 and 3/4, apply=3750, 50% accepted=1875
popB: 10000 and 1/4 apply=2500, 50% accepted=1250

Empirically, if you just look at popA and popB acceptance numbers (1875 and1250, respectively) popA has an advantage over popB. In reality they have the same acceptance rate, but popA has a larger percentage of their population applying.
 
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I think minority status plays more of a role in state schools. My husband was accepted to MD schools back in the 90s with less than average stats. He has been accepted to 3 DO schools this cycle and one specifically addressed his minority status.
 
I think minority status plays more of a role in state schools. My husband was accepted to MD schools back in the 90s with less than average stats. He has been accepted to 3 DO schools this cycle and one specifically addressed his minority status.

I think the advantage stops at the door, then it is just hard work.
 
I still don't like your logic. I think you have to look at the number of acceptances/ applicants and not look at total population.

Says who? If you're Asian and having a hard time getting in, maybe your parents are comparing you to your peers etc., then I see why these numbers are preferable to you, but I'm looking at it from a funding vs. representation standpoint. That's the standpoint that influences med school admissions. And that's why ~20% Asian representation in med schools, against ~5% in the general population, constitutes a big fat outlier datapoint.

There's a value system, and it's none of my business whether you believe in this or not, that claims that when federal funding supports the education of privileged professionals, as it does in medicine to a substantial degree, that the makeup of that profession should match the makeup of the general public. It comes down to taxation without representation, ring a bell?

Furthermore, among applicants, every race is accepted at 35% to 45%. URM advantage, if any, is not disadvantaging anybody so far.
 
I'm going to add my anecdotal evidence to this discussion, simply for the sake of discussion. I guess I am considered URM, even though I am only half, so maybe I am just getting half the 'advantages' they had out to URMs 😉

You can check my MDApps for specifics, but I have slightly lower than average stats. Theres lots of details on there, like what my prereq GPA is and what not. I am also economically disadvantaged. However, I have most certainly not had schools beating down the door to interview me, either allo OR osteo (my osteo school is just so darn expensive!). In fact, the few interviews I have gotten have commented on how interesting of a candidate I am. For my age, I am chuck full of life experience, and I have more than a few things on my app that make me stand out.

Yeah, maybe my URM status made them take an extra look. And yes, I know it seems like there are people out there, and especially on these boards, that are sweeping up acceptances and its easy to blame it on them being URM. Yeah, they might have a 3.3, but they also scored a 36 on the MCAT. Plus, if you get accepted everywhere you interview, odds are that they liked your personality more than they just went- oh, shes the good kind of dark!

There are too many subjective parts of this process to definitively say that one race has it hard and one has it easy. I agree with the above posts about the percentages for asians that are accepted. Those in power state that they are interested in recruiting URMs so that it more closely matches the makeup of our population. That is how they have determined who is OVERrepresented and who is UNDERrepresented. If 12% of the population is of one race, but only 3% of doctors is, they are attempting to correct for that. Just being a 'minority' doesnt give you any special consideration. You have to be a minority that is in the minority of physicians.

Either way, a qualified applicant will not get shut out of the system. If you have the scores and EC's, you will get accepted somewhere! It may take an extra try, but it will happen.
 
Either way, a qualified applicant will not get shut out of the system. If you have the scores and EC's, you will get accepted somewhere! It may take an extra try, but it will happen.


I have to agree with you big time here. The scapegoating thing is getting old. If someone is qualified, they should get in somewhere.

I find it funny that a guy with a 3.6 GPA and 32 MCAT applies to vanderbilt, harvard, boston u, george washington, and yale and when he doesn't get in it's because he feels looked over because he isn't minority. It's probably moreso due to his limited range of application.
 
I think the advantage stops at the door, then it is just hard work.

I agree and I'm not at all saying that it's the only thing that got my husband his interviews and acceptances. He has a 28 MCAT, GPAs around the same as mine and tons of great experience including teaching at the community college. When he was accepted to 3 MD schools his sGPA was 3.7, cGPA was 3.3 but his MCAT was only a 23. I honestly doubt many white or Asian people would have had that opportunity with such a low MCAT.
 
Says who? If you're Asian and having a hard time getting in, maybe your parents are comparing you to your peers etc., then I see why these numbers are preferable to you, but I'm looking at it from a funding vs. representation standpoint. That's the standpoint that influences med school admissions. And that's why ~20% Asian representation in med schools, against ~5% in the general population, constitutes a big fat outlier datapoint.

There's a value system, and it's none of my business whether you believe in this or not, that claims that when federal funding supports the education of privileged professionals, as it does in medicine to a substantial degree, that the makeup of that profession should match the makeup of the general public. It comes down to taxation without representation, ring a bell?

Furthermore, among applicants, every race is accepted at 35% to 45%. URM advantage, if any, is not disadvantaging anybody so far.

Are you saying their should be quotas and the qualified students should not be accepted? So once a med school hits 5% for Asians, should any qualified applicant after the fact be rejected because the national representation was met?
 
They should just open 100 new medical schools so we can all get in. We will need all the doctors in about 10 years anyway.:meanie:
 
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Are you saying their should be quotas and the qualified students should not be accepted? So once a med school hits 5% for Asians, should any qualified applicant after the fact be rejected because the national representation was met?

WTF? I'm saying no such thing. You seem very determined to make this thread about the plight of Asians vs. medical school admissions. I couldn't care less about the plight of Asians, or that of whites, trying to get into medical school. There's no plight there.
 
They should just open 100 new medical schools so we can all get in. We will need all the doctors in about 10 years anyway.:meanie:

I'm glad we are getting in now... with those 100 new medical schools, I am concerned about residencies.

p.s. I know you said "should open 100 new" , I was just saying...
 
Asians are not considered minority when any sort of scholastic situation. Yes, it is correct that asians represents the low % of total population but not when it comes to % in scholastic.

First: As an engineering undergrad, I can name number of national minority scholarships that specifically states many minorities EXCEPT for asians.

Second: I just had a talk with one of the major allo program director in nyc and it was stated that asians are not considered as a minority when it comes to medical school except for filipino. It was stated by the director that it was obvious that asians make up large % of health care providing population.

There are number of secondaries that has a spot if your a minority of all sorts EXCEPT for being an asian.

I would like to think an applicant applying for medical school should believe that he/she was admitted based on their personality/stats not the color of their skin. This is a very sensitive subject but I would like to believe that no matter the color, all my classmates are equally qualified to be sitting in classes as myself.

We are talking about taking about patients depending on skills set and smart to save their lives. Plus a jury wont go easy on you just because you are a half-puerto rican.
 
There is a difference between being a minority and being an underrepresented minority. Asians, over here anyway, are minorities just not underrepresented (generally speaking).
 
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