MIT '08 looking into med school

[TrickyG]

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I graduated from MIT a year ago with a degree in mechanical engineering and coursework in electrical engineering, economics, Spanish, and finance. I spent the better part of my time there doing what I could to get a job on a sales and trading desk on Wall Street -- the job that everyone wanted to get (without putting much thought into what I really wanted to do). I ended up working for a bulge bracket firm in summer 2008. In early 2009, the desk I worked on was eliminated and I was let go.

After scrambling to find any job after this happened, I decided to take a step back and really look for a job that I felt passionate about and interested in, something that I felt lacking in my previous work. So I read some books and some articles and did a lot of thinking, and I have now turned my thoughts to medicine, based on interest in the human body and passion about the current state of health of much of the US.

I still have a lot of thinking to do. I am working on contacting MIT alumni who are doctors to discuss with them their work and to set up shadowing opportunities. I know that this is the right general direction for me to take, but I am working on figuring it out for sure so I don't end up in a situation where I don't feel interested in my job again.

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Here is how I currently look on paper:
MIT Class of 2008
BS in Mechanical Engineering
Overall GPA - 4.7 / 5.0
BCPM GPA - 5.0 / 5.0 (only gen chem, mechanics, e&m, and diff eq)

Here is what I lack:
Prerequisites (Orgo with, bio lab, gen chem lab, biochem?)
Volunteer work and clinical experience
MCAT
Strong recommendations (I can get one from my recent manager, but I was never close with my professors. I'll likely have to get close with my new ones and use a premed advisor or volunteer supervisor?)

The way I see it, MCAT will come with the help of prereqs and recommendations will come with the help of prereqs and volunteer/clinical experience. So it boils down to taking prereqs and getting experience.


Prerequisites
I have a few questions regarding prerequisites specifically:

1. How necessary is it to take two semesters of a biology with lab and an inorganic chem with lab? MIT does their lab courses as a separate class and puts all their textbook and classroom work into one semester. So I have no lab work in bio and inorganic chem even though I have the content of two semesters of classroom work. Do I have to go through the whole process of retaking gen chem and bio??

2. I have done some searching and I have found nothing conclusive regarding whether a formal post-bacc program is superior to just taking the classes I have left. I plan on taking my classes at Harvard Extension School, and there I would need to redo bio (although I'd get it with lab), gen chem (again with lab), and mechanics and e&m. The way I see it, I might be better off just taking organic and throwing in some more advanced bio and chem courses after some review.

3. When should I look to have these courses completed if I hope to apply in the fall of 2010?


Volunteer/Clincal Experience
1. How would volunteer work or clinical experience rank compared with doing research with a professor, for someone in my position?

2. What types of volunteer work or clincal experience would be best to do?

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Other than what I'm thinking here or answers to my questions above, do any of you have any suggestions that might help me on my journey?

Thank you very much for reading such a long post and helping me with your comments.

 

[Lacheln]

I graduated from MIT a year ago with a degree in mechanical engineering and coursework in electrical engineering, economics, Spanish, and finance. I spent the better part of my time there doing what I could to get a job on a sales and trading desk on Wall Street -- the job that everyone wanted to get (without putting much thought into what I really wanted to do). I ended up working for a bulge bracket firm in summer 2008. In early 2009, the desk I worked on was eliminated and I was let go.

🙁 That sucks, I'm sorry to hear it. But if it leads to a more satisfying career thank your lucky stars it happened now and not 10 years from now.

I usually make a point of staying out of these threads because other people are better at answering the questions in a general way, but since I am a fellow engineer and did my postbacc at HES, I feel sort of morally obligated to reply. 😛 I was going to just PM you since most of this will be pretty MIT/HES specific, but on the off chance it helps someone else...

I still have a lot of thinking to do. I am working on contacting MIT alumni who are doctors to discuss with them their work and to set up shadowing opportunities. I know that this is the right general direction for me to take, but I am working on figuring it out for sure so I don't end up in a situation where I don't feel interested in my job again.

Smart. I found the alumni network v helpful for finding shadowing, as well as mentoring and general advice. Also, do talk to the MIT premed office; I found them to be supportive and full of pretty good info.

Here is how I currently look on paper:
MIT Class of 2008
BS in Mechanical Engineering
Overall GPA - 4.7 / 5.0
BCPM GPA - 5.0 / 5.0 (only gen chem, mechanics, e&m, and diff eq)

Acceptable. I'd break me off a piece of that.

Here is what I lack:
Prerequisites (Orgo with, bio lab, gen chem lab, biochem?)
Volunteer work and clinical experience
MCAT
Strong recommendations (I can get one from my recent manager, but I was never close with my professors. I'll likely have to get close with my new ones and use a premed advisor or volunteer supervisor?)

Yes, ideally you should get a letter from your previous job, your volunteer work and some of your professors (at least two). You do want the letters to cover all of your major activities, hence the letter from your previous job, but you might get varying opinions on that. I used the HES composite letter service (sponsorship) since MIT doesn't do one, and I'd been out of school for a long time so I was much closer to the HES people at that point. Tamara in the MIT premed office is awesome for support/info. Cozy up to Dr. Fixsen (HCP and Bio) at HES; he's hilarious, gives straightforward advice, and from what I hear writes a great letter...er, except I guess you're not going to take bio. Still, he's the director of the HCP program and will definitely point you in the right direction regardless of whether you are planning on using sponsorship or not. I also got a letter from a dean at MIT to cover my undergrad bases because I needed to explain some ugrad gpa indiscretions - you obviously don't have that problem though. If there is anyone you could get a decent letter from at MIT I would try though, it's a pretty big phase of your life to ignore when you haven't been out of school for long. Logan (OChem at HES) is also a great prof, good guy, and writes good letters. Wingert (Dev Bio) is sweet and teaches a very interesting class, particularly if you go to the grad sections, but is a flake when it comes to letters.

Prerequisites
I have a few questions regarding prerequisites specifically:

1. How necessary is it to take two semesters of a biology with lab and an inorganic chem with lab? MIT does their lab courses as a separate class and puts all their textbook and classroom work into one semester. So I have no lab work in bio and inorganic chem even though I have the content of two semesters of classroom work. Do I have to go through the whole process of retaking gen chem and bio??

No, schools accept 7.012/3/4 and 5.11/3.091 as two sem of bio and chem for classroom. As you know, HES doesn't offer just the labs, so you'd have to go somewhere else for that. I think UMass offers just labs, and I know BU does. However, if you're going to shell out the $$ for BU I'd check to see if you can get into 7.02/5.310 and get it out of the way in one semester. 7.02 might be tough since it's a lottery. And there are also easier routes to an A in lab, so maybe that isn't the greatest idea.

One thing to keep in mind in terms of prereqs is whether you took the bulk of them freshman year. JHU requires disclosure of freshman grades. The rest prefer to see grades for prereqs (although it's not a strict requirement if you have plenty of upper levels), so if you took most as a frosh then I would consider taking more upper levels to make sure you have biological sciences grades on the record. Genetics and biochem are the usual suspects (especially since a lot of upper tier schools either require them or strongly recommend them), but mol bio, dev bio and immunology are all also good.

2. I have done some searching and I have found nothing conclusive regarding whether a formal post-bacc program is superior to just taking the classes I have left. I plan on taking my classes at Harvard Extension School, and there I would need to redo bio (although I'd get it with lab), gen chem (again with lab), and mechanics and e&m. The way I see it, I might be better off just taking organic and throwing in some more advanced bio and chem courses after some review.

Do you mean HES would require you to redo bio etc because they don't offer the labs separately? I mean, HES isn't necessarily all that formal - you aren't eligible for the diploma, and unless you want a letter through the sponsorship program it's completely a la carte (and sponsorship isn't dependent on specific classes, just credits and MCAT). You could take the labs for bio, chem and physics somewhere else. I don't think splitting the postbacc courses between two schools would be viewed negatively since there's an obvious reason.

Usually formal postbaccs are for gpa repair or people with no science backgrounds. I only did the HES sponsorship route because I'd been out of school for so long, MIT doesn't do a composite, and MIT also makes it tough for alums to get premed advisors (advisors which are required to go through the MIT premed office in terms of letters and such, though not to just get advice, mock interviews etc.). I basically just wanted SOME formality given my oddity as an applicant - I'm not sure you need it, you could probably just take the classes and use interfolio for letter distribution. On the other hand, if the $500 for sponsorship doesn't bother you, I'd throw it down - it will only help. Get on it though, you have to request sponsorship by Sept or Oct. this fall.

3. When should I look to have these courses completed if I hope to apply in the fall of 2010?

Next summer, you mean? (Super subtle hint that you should plan on applying in the summer, not fall.) You can apply without all your prereqs, but the prereqs are helpful for the MCAT, and you need that to apply obviously, so...I'd get orgo out of the way for sure for MCAT purposes since you haven't had it at all. I'd try to take the labs for first semester bio and gen chem this summer, start orgo in the fall and an upper level (biochem is offered in the fall), and take second semester orgo and another upper level (genetics perhaps) in the spring. Take second semester labs for gen chem and bio next summer after the MCAT and while you work on secondaries. Take physics labs during the year you are applying. My logic on the lab order being that physics labs are completely useless for the MCAT, but chem and bio do show up a tiny bit, so might as well get what benefit you can out of that...it's marginal though, so if the scheduling doesn't work out in that order I wouldn't worry about it.

Volunteer/Clincal Experience
1. How would volunteer work or clinical experience rank compared with doing research with a professor, for someone in my position?

What types of schools do you want to apply to, and what kind of a career do you want? You need to have some volunteer/clinical work for pretty much any school, you only need research for research schools. And not even all of those, depending on your UROP experience. CRA would be ideal, but it can be tough to find a spot, much less on short notice.

2. What types of volunteer work or clincal experience would be best to do?

In short, something that interests you, puts you in at least tangentially in a medical environment, and allows you to demonstrate your overflowing altruism. There are feeder programs at MGH, BWH, and BI that I checked out, but they were mind-numbing - greeter/transport/lab runner for the first 80 hours, and difficult to coordinate scheduling with a full-time job. Instead I did some very interesting medical advocacy work, as well as residential psychiatric work, can PM me if you want the specifics. Most interesting things require a bit more upfront training, which can be hard to pack into a schedule, but it is worth it because you'll have much better essay/interview fodder...not to mention that purely jumping through hoops is a depressing way to spend your time.

Other than what I'm thinking here or answers to my questions above, do any of you have any suggestions that might help me on my journey?

The only thing I'd emphasize is to work on distilling your motives for the career switch, and spend the next year catching up on your health care policy reading. In my estimation that's really going to be the only major question mark if you take care of the classes/volunteer work. A desire to help people isn't sufficient, you have to describe why medicine specifically.

 

[atomi]

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[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

Lachln had great targeted advice, re: Atomi's question -- some people leave finance because you learn after a while that, although one can earn quite a bit, the end result may be.. a more accurate stock range for one firm to offer to another that may be acquired. Or a more accurate long-term plan. Or spreadsheets that all tie in together. For some, the non-financial benefits of medicine are substantial enough to make up for the opportunity cost of "giving up" a career with lots of growth and earnings potential.

TrickyG, a few areas to reiterate -- volunteer/clinical hours often are mindless, boring, dull, and involve sweeping things or washing things off with alcohol scrubs. Think the kind of medical work you could do if you'd not finished high school. The point is to be there, in that environment, for enough hours to absorb what type of thing goes on. The way that I got through it was to set a goal of learning, seeing, or doing one medically relevant interesting thing per hour.

Med schools in my experience won't be wowed by a non-medical background as accomplished as yours. They will be wowed by your GPA (at least many of them will) and your future MCAT score.

Don't forget to apply really early - think July or so. The primary is done first, that takes a few weeks or so (often 1-5 weeks depending on when its submitted), then secondaries are available -- last year some schools didn't seriously consider secondaries completed in late September; disregard what the school says is their deadline; it is not their true deadline which will be months earlier.

For prerequs -- for my version of the MCAT, advanced bio courses helped a great deal; the prerequ's are seen by some schools as the "bare minimum"; some schools will look negatively on students who only have these classes done. But you can take the MCAT and apply with whichever courses complete you want; typically schools require all courses to be complete by matriculation, not by the application date.

 

[atomi]

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[Ntyeller]

Hi!

I'm a fellow MIT alum ('00) and just wanted to say hi! 🙂 Lachln has pretty much covered it - you're going to need lab courses for bio and ochem. Your Course 2 labs will cover you for any "Physics with lab" requirements (I used my Course 16 labs to fulfill that prerequisite and didn't experience any problems from med schools). For gen chem and organic chem lab I took 5.310, and that seemed to count for both.

I vote for taking upper-level bio and chem classes. That's what I did, and it worked out well for me. With your GPA you do not need to retake any intro classes (unless you feel like you need the review for the MCAT). Harvard Extension sounds like a great idea. I did mine at UC Berkeley Extension, and had great experiences with it. As an alum I had an MIT pre-med advisor...if you're in Boston it hopefully won't be too hard to get one...(?)

Med schools love MIT alums. They especially love MIT alums with GPAs like yours. 🙂 (Mine was nowhere NEAR your GPA, hence the post-bacc for me!). Do well on the MCAT (I have no doubt that you will!). Get thyself to a great volunteer place and get some clinical experience. Starting with the alumni network is a great idea. If you can get both research experience *and* shadowing/clinical experience, that'd be a huge plus. (Did you do a UROP? That counts as research!) Work on getting strong LORs from people at these places, and I know you'll have a very successful admissions profile!

Best of to you!

 

[Ntyeller]

I was not suggesting he reconsider a career in finance; I was suggesting he explore career options directly related to his degree in engineering (e.g., design engineering, manufacturing, operations, etc.). With a degree from MIT, he could be running an engineering company by the time he would have finished residency training, especially if he could get an MBA from Harvard or the like. He has options and connections us regular joe-blow engineers don't have. In my opinion he is sitting on a gold mine that just requires a little ingenuity.

Perhaps the OP doesn't want to do engineering. (How many college graduates actually work in the field in which they majored? Not many.) Plus, engineers are losing jobs at an alarming rate with this economy. Ford, GM, Boeing, etc. are not what they used to be.

Many engineers end up in medical school. It's not an uncommon transition to make. And, not everyone cares about gold mines and money - some leave very lucrative careers for medicine because medicine is what fulfills them, while designing a car or being an engineer manager does not. To each, his own!

 

[Lacheln]

Am I missing something here? You have a mechanical engineering degree from MIT and the first job you sought was in finance and now you are looking for one in medicine?

A mechanical engineering degree from MIT? MIT!

You might want to look into that career field, Your options are virtually unlimited.

I am baffled as to why someone would spend 4 years getting one of the hardest degrees at one of the hardest schools and never pursue anything involving it for a second.

I was not suggesting he reconsider a career in finance; I was suggesting he explore career options directly related to his degree in engineering (e.g., design engineering, manufacturing, operations, etc.). With a degree from MIT, he could be running an engineering company by the time he would have finished residency training, especially if he could get an MBA from Harvard or the like. He has options and connections us regular joe-blow engineers don't have. In my opinion he is sitting on a gold mine that just requires a little ingenuity.

I'm gonna go ahead and take a wild guess that after undergrad the OP knew they didn't want to do engineering, and having checked out part of the business world doesn't want to do that either. There's nothing mystical about MIT, there's no reason to stay in a field you chose at the age of 18 that you don't enjoy. Anyway, I know of exactly one mech e person from my year that actually went on to do something mech e related. Not sure why that one in particular has such a high defection rate.

Your Course 2 labs will cover you for any "Physics with lab" requirements (I used my Course 16 labs to fulfill that prerequisite and didn't experience any problems from med schools).

Oh, duh, yeah your physics labs should be covered. At least mechanical. Do 2ers have to take e&m labs?

As an alum I had an MIT pre-med advisor...if you're in Boston it hopefully won't be too hard to get one...(?)

I got shafted. 🙁 As an alum you are low on the totem pole for getting one assigned, and they didn't tell me that I wouldn't be getting one until late Nov (because they wait until all the undergrads have been assigned one), which was after the HES deadline for sponsorship applications. As it turned out I delayed applying for a year for other reasons, but it sucked at the time. The good thing about using the MIT service is that they explain to your schools all of the funkiness that the MIT curriculum brings to the table...but most top schools are familiar with those vagaries anyway.

Med schools love MIT alums. They especially love MIT alums with GPAs like yours. 🙂

Yes, I agree, that GPA is pretty tasty, and you do get props during the interview process just for the letters. Sort of like an MD I guess. 😛

 

[Barfalamule]

Wow, med schools are going to love you. Do your lab work at the cheapest possible location. You have already proven you´ve got the goods. I´d suggest doing something like Brigham and Women´s MCEP program where you can volunteer, round with a physician, and get a letter of rec. upon completion. Volunteer experience is more important than research experience. So make sure that is your primary focus. Finally, kick but on the MCAT and prepare to be interviewed!

 

[DrJosephKim]

TrickyG, send me a PM and we should chat. I was also an MIT grad (mechanical engineering). I'd be glad to share my story. Best of luck to you.

 

[atomi]

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[atomi]

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[Lacheln]

Atomi - the OP would really have to answer the question of why they never went into industry, and they don't seem to actually be following the thread so we'll probably never know. It's not all that unusual for people to stick with an undergrad major because they've already completed many of the classes and switching would delay graduation - especially given that, at MIT at least, having an engineering degree is a perfectly good prelude to careers in other fields, including finance, which is what the OP wanted to do. I have a ton of friends who went into finance after school, none of them majored in finance, most of them were engineers or natural sciences.

I can't speculate as to why public schools would produce more engineers. Or, rather, I could speculate, but having not gone to a large public school or worked in an engineering firm I really don't have much to base it on. All I can say is that one of the major benefits I've gotten from MIT is the freedom it provides in terms of preparation - no matter what your major is you will be exposed to all of the basic sciences and math, as well as humanities. That isn't necessarily true at most schools, even for science/engineering majors.

 

[atomi]

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[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

My undergrad was from what would probably be considere an "engineer farm" -- Illinois @ Champaign. (I stayed far away from that part of the school). Quite a few of my dorm friends either changed out of engineering or dropped out of school due to the challenges of this area, or maybe because people not well suited to be engineer grads were accepted into the program. Hopefully MIT is different?

Yes (Atomi) I can see the benefit of trying out the field to see if actual work in engineering is a good fit. I did well in accounting courses, but this turned out to be a poor fit for me versus other business areas years ago. But if one graduates with a sought-after degree from a great school, and then finds that professional area is a poor fit for them, it can be tough in that everyone seems to think he or she is making a poor choice leaving that field, even though the person knows it's a poor fit for their personality (with 20-20 hindsight maybe they should have chosen a different area?)

I'd advocate changing careers a handful of times to really see what fits, what doesn't and to understand that it's not all "peaches and cream" on the other side of the fence - there is good and bad to every profession and career. Personally I cannot imagine deciding on one career or field @ 18 and doing that until retirement. Although part of me is jealous of those who can do this!

 

[Teuni]

I am feeling a similar situation is in my hands! So, hopefully people's answers are good here for you.

I'm talking to a lot of engineering degree students (a number of my friends just graduated and now grads for some), and they either like their field or plan on teaching, or both. I see that maybe engineering's just a very hard thing to be in if you're not in for the love of it from the get-go?

 

[atomi]

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