Money AND Power

[Siamese]

Iif someone desires power (ultimately money and influence), what are the best specialties to go into. I was reading the book, "The Medical Student Survival Guide" and the author lists specialties like rads, optho, etc.. This book unfortunately (because of when it was written) doesn't address less known specialties like preventive medicine, pmr, occupational medicine, etc.. But I was curious about these specialties b/c they may offer more networking with other fields/industries, i.e. politics, entertainment, journalism, etc... I personally think power comes in the form of having money and connections (people/networking). I'm an entrepreneur and don't envision practicing tradional clinical medicine, but rather would like to create my own niche and successful business. Any thoughts on which specialties are best for someone who desires power?

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[docB]

 

[Miykael]

Schrute. Dwight Schrute.

 

[medicinesux]

Trauma attendings can beat their chests all they want and intensivists can gallant through the ICUs but it is all just a charade. Need you ask why? Well, you will be the govt's b!tch, HMO's will dictate how you practice medicine, administrators and regulating agencies will ride you, malpractice lawyers will be circling above, patients will freely tell you what they want and will sue you at the drop of a hat, allied professionals will continue to needle their way onto your territory, and Sallie Mae will want a piece of you too. Sounds almighty powerful to me! If you are looking to go on a power trip than don't become a physician. If so you are in for a rather rude awakening. Otherwise you will turn into that surgeon who pitches a fit in the OR like a 2 year old when they don't get their way.

 

[notinkansas]

Just who are you hoping to influence? And toward what end?

Why the h#*l do you think becoming a doctor will help you influence whoever it is you want to influence?

Warren Buffet
George Sorros
Timothy Geitner

Gaining power and influence is about kissing the right butts (like one of an inexperienced senator who is tapped to run for president and has a team that executes a brilliant marketing strategy--- skills you are more likely to have/develop as an entrepreneur). Not about getting a very expensive degree.

 

[Siamese]

I realized late in the med school game that medicine does not offer as much autonomy, creativity, and financial compensation as I'd like. Plus, I really didn't care for traditional clinical medicine, especially how it's set up in the US. I decided to finish med school because I try to always start what I finish, and I figured I could leverage the MD for something. Anyways, as far as kissing butts, I think I've gotten adequate experience perfecting this art during clinical rotations. As much as I detested the politics of the hospital, I've learned to deal with many different types. I've also learned that there is great truth in the saying "it's not what you know, but who you know." Thus, I've considered, more and more, a career in business or even politics. I was just wondering if anyone on here had the same thoughts, or could office any insight or advice.

 

[SOLDIER]

Were u bullied in school?

 

[asmallchild]

Try golf.

 

[GoodmanBrown]

I realized late in the med school game that medicine does not offer as much autonomy, creativity, and financial compensation as I'd like. Plus, I really didn't care for traditional clinical medicine, especially how it's set up in the US. I decided to finish med school because I try to always start what I finish, and I figured I could leverage the MD for something. Anyways, as far as kissing butts, I think I've gotten adequate experience perfecting this art during clinical rotations. As much as I detested the politics of the hospital, I've learned to deal with many different types. I've also learned that there is great truth in the saying "it's not what you know, but who you know." Thus, I've considered, more and more, a career in business or even politics. I was just wondering if anyone on here had the same thoughts, or could office any insight or advice.

Have you thought about trying to do MD consulting in pharmaceuticals? I worked at a small contract company that did statistics for big pharma, and there was like 1 MD working there. He was our medical expert on all things. Peds nutrition, infectious disease, anything was thrown his way. He was a big fish there, though it was a small pond.

Or on the other hand, you could run for office. What with all the health care issues that are politically important right now (and will probably continue to be important as costs continue to rise skyward), you could potentially use your MD as credentials for a political career.

Either way, I hope to God I don't work with you.

 

[McGillGrad]

Doctors had much more power in the 80s. Peds is probably the most influential in terms of teaching people and having them listen closely.

 

[SOLDIER]

This is really scary

 

[maxheadroom]

Chung Mee: Opium is my business. The bridge mean more traffic. More traffic mean more money. More money mean more power.
Lawrence Bourne III: Yeah, well, before I commit any of that to memory, would there be anything in this for me?
Chung Mee: Speed is important in business. Time is money.
Lawrence Bourne III: You said opium was money.
Chung Mee: Money is Money.
Lawrence Bourne III: Well then, what is time again?

 

[Labslave]

This is really scary

Almost as scary as your avatar.

I actually have a few classmates (getting ready to be residents...yikes!) that are all about power. They make the OP look like child's play in comparison. They're strange people and simply don't belong in medicine.

 

[doctorsherlock]

Here she comes

Ever faithful

Nemesis

 

[Moonglow]

To the OP, there are many MD's that feel the way that you do. First you need to decide whether you want to work in a clinical setting, or not? Answer that first. If not, you can work with, Big Pharma, legal consultation, think tanks, the medical lobby, or advocacy groups (philanthropies, AARP, media, etc.)

Many MD's get into medical administration, not just for power and a paycheck, but to influence their departmental staff and the medical treatment offered. Some doctors become deans in academic medicine in order to influence the education of the next generations of physicians.

A CT surgeon here at Hopkins gave up that career for work in medical informatics, trippled his pay doing just as valuble work.

Many MD's dissatisfied with the current state of medical affairs try to find a path less taken, fill a need. I know of a doctor who took a state grant and opened multiple clinics in areas that needed them (rural patients pay for medical services too), he's now wealthier than the Chair of Medicine at Mass Gen.

A medical degree should never be wasted...

 

[michaelrack]

It's not the most powerful specialty, but if you want to learn things that will help you in business, go into psychiatry.

 

[SOLDIER]

Almost as scary as your avatar.

I actually have a few classmates (getting ready to be residents...yikes!) that are all about power. They make the OP look like child's play in comparison. They're strange people and simply don't belong in medicine.

There is so many people with that idea who comes threw neurosurgery they never last long in the field

 

[notinkansas]

I TOTALLY get your dislike of clinical medicine - it took me 3 years of residency to get to that point.

Getting a decent job as MD with no board certification, clinical experience or other background (such as business experience or research experience) is difficult. You could do a post bac and get into research.

Your statement that you are seeking power is disturbing.

Here is a link that might be helpful if you want to explore career opportunities as a nonclinical MD. The focus isn't on power, but rather finding something that you can enjoy doing to make a good living.

http://www.nonclinicaljobs.com/

 

[sunset823]

jeez, I didn't expect everybody to jump down the OP's throat - he might have worded his question in a bad way, but I can see where he's coming from - I really don't care about the money in this profession, but being interested in politics, I would like to work on health policy issues at some high level one day, and maybe or maybe not run for office (to get some diversity in that group, for one - all 16 current physicians in Congress are white males).

FWIW, OP, in answering your question directly, I went to a session with a state senator in Michigan who is an anesthesiologist - he practices two days a week and carries out his duties as a state senator - so that might be a field to consider if you're interested in the political route. As for business, can't help you there, I have 0 interest in the business world.

And obviously, no matter what you choose, you have to go to residency and be licensed to be taken seriously. If you're not planning on doing that, it's an uphill battle.

 

[Siamese]

Thank you to the few positive, thoughtful responses/advice. And just to claify, when I wrote "power," I phrased it in the form of "influence." My perception of medicine, which is the reality for many, is that is a profession of hierachy that tolerates and even sometimes encourages abuse and mindless conformity. And, as far as I'm concerned, residency is just another period of this, just with higher stakes. I constantly read posts, specifically topics like "resident termination." I don't know about other people, but I'm the type of person that refuses to let my destiny be determined by a vindictive physician, nurse, PD, whatever. I feel like medicine is filled with tons of "yes men," "cynics," and frank "cowards." Never in my life, have I experienced so any people turn a blind eye to mistreatment of their peers. It's quite disturbing. But, I believe this is ultimately the case because, few people in medicine actually have power and influence. I came into medicine because I wanted to help people, and I wanted a respectable career. In almost 4 years of med school, I have first hand witnessed a severely broken system, and tons of profesionals not very much interested in "helping people." And, I have been indoctrinated into a profession that seriously lacks professionalism and respect for its students and residents. As such, I'm actively trying to find a place in medicine where I can still make a decent living, but more importantly, where I can have more influence, thus power. The powers that be have no desire to fix medicine, and the AMA is not our advocate, willing to sell docs up the river at the drop of a hat. I refuse to further risk control over my life, my career and my happiness for a career in clinical medicine. "I am the captain of my ship. I am the master of my fate."
PS- To GoodmanBrown, you pray to God that you don't work with someone like me now. Don't worry, I'm abslutely sure you'll get your prayers answered. Cause for every person like me in medicine, someone who actually cares about "the little guy", there are 10 nurses/residents/attendings that will relish in abusing you and making your life a living hell. People "like me" are vastly outnumbered. Cheers!

 

[notinkansas]

I think most professions, including politics, suffer from many of the same maladies. Witness how many in the Republican Party were upset over McCain's choosing of Palin as his running mate. Many were upset because they felt other people "deserved" it, or it was other people's "time".

The BS you have experienced in medicine is present in many other professions as well. How to change it? I don't know.

 

[Ttan]

Well, what you could do is quit and open up a pawn shop, and have a little back room where you take random people hostage and put them in bondage gear + do whatever you want with them.

You could have a lot of power over people, but you would run the chances of having Bruce Willis types breaking out and really ruining it for you..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23yMDQTdG0U&feature=related

 

[michaelrack]

Never in my life, have I experienced so any people turn a blind eye to mistreatment of their peers. It's quite disturbing. But, I believe this is ultimately the case because, few people in medicine actually have power and influence. I came into medicine because I wanted to help people, and I wanted a respectable career. In almost 4 years of med school, I have first hand witnessed a severely broken system, and tons of profesionals not very much interested in "helping people." And, I have been indoctrinated into a profession that seriously lacks professionalism and respect for its students and residents!

Private practice is a lot different from med school/residency.

I agree that that the medical educational systems lacks respect for students and residents.

 

[Law2Doc]

... I
A medical degree should never be wasted...

I actually think that the OP is describing a job not in medicine, and so yeah, if that's what he really wants to do in life, then sure, waste away. Some of us career changers are likely going to "waste" prior degrees. Not really a waste because they contribute to what you bring to the table in terms of perspective, but you might have a career where you won't use it. Bottom line, if you are looking to be a power broker, the law and business side of the world tends to be the fastest route. It's not an accident that most politicians have law degrees. Law is a profession geared toward advocating views and influencing people, negotiating. That's really what lawyers do. So it's basically training to be a power broker. So if you are really good at it, work hard, and network well, pretty soon you are influencing and advocating on behalf of more and more powerful people, and that in and of itself gives you a launching pad. But you have to pay your dues -- you don't get to start at the top. As for money, the problem with physician incomes is that it's largely driven by reimbursements, and because there is only so much you can charge and so many hours in the day, there is a finite ceiling for each specialty (high though it may be). Law has less of a ceiling, but most of the bigger clients tend to go to firms where you will have many years of salaried employment before you have a shot at partnership. So to have the kind of money the OP seems to be talking about (Soros, Buffett kind of money), you pretty much have to do the business route. Make some money managing your own money, and get other people to see how well you are doing and many will let you manage their money too. With a big enough pot of money under management, you will have more leverage, and in turn the ability to make more money. (Or lose it all, which happens to most taking this route, but then again to get to a goal sometimes you have to write off the down-side. Nobody gets rich without taking risks). Again, you don't start at the top on this, and have to prove yourself. Either way will take years. But I think you, OP, will have a shot at getting closer to your ultimate goals in a field other than medicine.

 

[michaelrack]

As such, I'm actively trying to find a place in medicine where I can still make a decent living, but more importantly, where I can have more influence, thus power. The powers that be have no desire to fix medicine, and the AMA is not our advocate, willing to sell docs up the river at the drop of a hat. I refuse to further risk control over my life, my career and my happiness for a career in clinical medicine. "I am the captain of my ship. I am the master of my fate."
!

If you want a career in medicine that will allow you to avoid abuse, you need to find a specialty in which you can open a solo or small group private practice, and not be dependent on hospital affiliations/staff memberships. Psychiatry is one such specialty. You wouldn't have much power/influence over others, but you could if you choose, live off the grid and not have any hospital staff memberships and have your own solo private practice and make a decent income.

 

[Axe]

Iif someone desires power (ultimately money and influence), what are the best specialties to go into. I was reading the book, "The Medical Student Survival Guide" and the author lists specialties like rads, optho, etc.. This book unfortunately (because of when it was written) doesn't address less known specialties like preventive medicine, pmr, occupational medicine, etc.. But I was curious about these specialties b/c they may offer more networking with other fields/industries, i.e. politics, entertainment, journalism, etc... I personally think power comes in the form of having money and connections (people/networking). I'm an entrepreneur and don't envision practicing tradional clinical medicine, but rather would like to create my own niche and successful business. Any thoughts on which specialties are best for someone who desires power?

That book was written at a time when the best and brightest did general surgery and int medicine. He basically advocated that one should go into a ROAD speciality with rads being the best. He was the pioneer of lifetsyle being the most important thing in looking for a specialty. The guy was a prescient genius

 

[dragonfly99]

OP, I don't really disagree with you about the medical training system.
It seems that you have decided that you don't really want to pursue clinical medicine.
There was someonein the med school class ahead of me who did not do residency and did go straight into a consulting job with one of the major consulting firms I believe. However, we were at a so-called Top 10 type med school and that may have helped her land the job. I am sure she worked on it for several months, as I heard she decided during 3rd year that she didn't want to do clinical medicine. So I'm not sure it's true that you need to do a residency to get any decent job...it is surely safer, but I don't think it's the only path.

It seems like you could also explore jobs in the pharmaceutical industry. Most government jobs (FDA, etc.) require a residency plus board certification, so those type jobs would be out for you.

If you're at a med school that's just really intense, you may be able to stomach residency by just picking some really cush IM or occupational med residency or something, and just kind of tolerating the next 3 years to get a residency under your belt. I think you have to like treating patients to make that feasible though...otherwise you WILL be miserable in clinical medicine, no matter where you go. As mentioned above, the practice of medicine isn't necessarily like residency and certainly not like med school, so you've got to think long term.

 

[Howard7]

It's not the most powerful specialty, but if you want to learn things that will help you in business, go into psychiatry.

Sounds like an unorthodox answer. Why do you say this. Would u be able to give examples on why and how psych is helpful for business.

 

[wuliao87]

Thank you to the few positive, thoughtful responses/advice. And just to claify, when I wrote "power," I phrased it in the form of "influence." My perception of medicine, which is the reality for many, is that is a profession of hierachy that tolerates and even sometimes encourages abuse and mindless conformity. And, as far as I'm concerned, residency is just another period of this, just with higher stakes. I constantly read posts, specifically topics like "resident termination." I don't know about other people, but I'm the type of person that refuses to let my destiny be determined by a vindictive physician, nurse, PD, whatever. I feel like medicine is filled with tons of "yes men," "cynics," and frank "cowards." Never in my life, have I experienced so any people turn a blind eye to mistreatment of their peers. It's quite disturbing. But, I believe this is ultimately the case because, few people in medicine actually have power and influence. I came into medicine because I wanted to help people, and I wanted a respectable career. In almost 4 years of med school, I have first hand witnessed a severely broken system, and tons of profesionals not very much interested in "helping people." And, I have been indoctrinated into a profession that seriously lacks professionalism and respect for its students and residents. As such, I'm actively trying to find a place in medicine where I can still make a decent living, but more importantly, where I can have more influence, thus power. The powers that be have no desire to fix medicine, and the AMA is not our advocate, willing to sell docs up the river at the drop of a hat. I refuse to further risk control over my life, my career and my happiness for a career in clinical medicine. "I am the captain of my ship. I am the master of my fate."
PS- To GoodmanBrown, you pray to God that you don't work with someone like me now. Don't worry, I'm abslutely sure you'll get your prayers answered. Cause for every person like me in medicine, someone who actually cares about "the little guy", there are 10 nurses/residents/attendings that will relish in abusing you and making your life a living hell. People "like me" are vastly outnumbered. Cheers!

I agree 300% with what you say and did not understand why so many replies were negative towards you. What did you end up doing? I was looking into occupational medicine.

 

[Lostin_space]

Iif someone desires power (ultimately money and influence), what are the best specialties to go into. I was reading the book, "The Medical Student Survival Guide" and the author lists specialties like rads, optho, etc.. This book unfortunately (because of when it was written) doesn't address less known specialties like preventive medicine, pmr, occupational medicine, etc.. But I was curious about these specialties b/c they may offer more networking with other fields/industries, i.e. politics, entertainment, journalism, etc... I personally think power comes in the form of having money and connections (people/networking). I'm an entrepreneur and don't envision practicing tradional clinical medicine, but rather would like to create my own niche and successful business. Any thoughts on which specialties are best for someone who desires power?

Many ways to do that. There are lots of physicians who start in clinical medicine, get sick of it, and then take managerial positions whether it is in a hospital system or some other system. Our hospital CEO is an MD and makes about 1 mill, and there are a number of other attendings throughout the different hospitals who are in managerial positions making bank - it will give you good $ and also power/influence. As a derm you can do very well if you get involved in trials. I remember when I was a student the derm would get like 1500 or something like that per prescription he would give of certain things, or trials, etc. Heme/onc docs can do well if they get involved in pharmaceutical research. Gas/PMR people can do well in Pain, and it's not that difficult it seems to start clinics and expand them, making many people money, and more business involved. Some docs have started consulting businesses that do very well with things like disability evals/worker's comp/law side of things - one of my attendings has his own side consulting business for all of the above, and he's the head of numerous different hospital/clinic systems - so he has lots of say and his side business alone makes like a millionaire yearly. So many many ways. It really depends on what you want and what you are geared to.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

 

[Apollyon]

Had to do it!

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Had to do it!