"Money" is not a bad reason to go into medicine, "to help people" is.

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
master burchare

master burchare

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
10
Reaction score
0
Members don't see this ad.
For some people, the most money they could possibly make is by going into medicine. Guaranteed high salaries as long as you can get in (which, really, is not that hard. Just get a >3.5 and >32, generic clinical/research experiences, and you'll be fine as long as you apply broadly). Wanting to make money and wanting to be a good doctor are NOT mutually exclusive either - you can strive to be a great doctor while striving to get paid. There are plenty of people who can't be successful on Wall St. or make partner in a consulting/law firm - many of these people do have the ability to maximize their life income through medicine though.

"Helping people," though, is a really stupid reason to go into medicine. News flash: all professions help people. You can't make money unless someone needs your help with something. The only way medicine is different is because you get to see firsthand your services improving the lives of others. That's not the same thing as helping people: the pharmaceutical and bioengineering firms that create the tools doctors use are just as helpful to people, doctors just get more credit because they interact with patients personally. Basically, saying you want to go into medicine as opposed to bioengineering or big pharma to "help people" is nonsensical, what you really want is to get the credit and thanks for helping people.
 
cool_story_bro_2.jpg
 
I agree with what you are getting at OP. I told this straight up in one interview, that I spent a lot of time in another field where money is comparatively difficult to come by. I enjoyed it a lot but in the future it would have been very hard to support a potential family. By going into medical school (a form of professional school) one is all but secured to have some form of long term employment, as demand for physicians will always be high. If you ask me I will tell you that I am willing to work hard for whatever I do, and if I go into medicine then I will just happen to have a financial reward and stability to match that effort.

I'm not saying I need to make a lot of money. Having a stable income is more important to me. But another question is, would you stay in medicine if doctors received the same salary as school teachers?
 
Last edited:
master burchare said:
"Helping people," though, is a really stupid reason to go into medicine. News flash: all professions help people. You can't make money unless someone needs your help with something. .
Click to expand...

I disagree with this. Most professions, and particularly most lucrative professions, are either useless, morally ambiguous, or outright predatory. Generally the way you make money is to cater to peoples fears and vices, or to fill artifical needs that your profession created.

There are a lot of people out there that wake up, go to work, and bust their hump to sell kids McDonalds hamburgers that will one day turn them into fat diabetics. Their are plenty of people that go to offices and fill white collar managerial roles whose sole function is generate useless and redundant TPS report style paperwork. There are a huge number of people whose industry is to generate and then overcharge for some kind of status symbol (and what inner city kid doesn't desperately want $120 shoes). There are even a lot of REALLY rich people who, through an understanding of the stock market, make their money without producing anything at all while hurting the companies that they are supposedly 'investing' in (for seconds at a time).

Medicine is one of the very few jobs where you can actually do a lot of good without getting yourself fired. Don't under sell it.
 
While money isn't a bad reason it is what a person does with the money and how they act when they have it that it becomes a problem. Misers make crappy doctors and so do those who lack a charitable arm. Helping people is not bad reason either but I see why you are attacking it. When people say they want to do medicine so they can help people either have no idea or did not fully express what they meant. Some feel the best way to do the most good is to get a medical education so that they can help people make informed choices about their health options and be there to do the medical procedures people need. Some want to use the money they make to help others pay for the health care they can afford or be a stronger charitable person.

Helping people isn't the end of the story just like money isn't the end of the story either.
 
You can be a good doctor, and still want to make good money. I grew up without money, and will be glad to not have to worry over every little bill.

You are taking the word "helping" to mean something more simple than what most people mean to articulate (and perhaps this is what you are alluding to). It is not taking credit or just providing service that many people want. What physicians do for people is something that no other job can precisely re-create. Seeing firsthand your impact on people is a huge (if not the main) reason to go into medicine. This is the desire to "help" that we express, and not something intended to take sole credit. Many professions help people, but I personally would not find them as satisfying. Why would you go into medicine if you did not have this same desire? Again, I do not know why you would take the phrase "helping people" so literal. You seem intelligent, so I would think that you would know this refers to the active role played and personal relationship built with the patient. I think your issue might just be with how people articulate their motivations.

Oldyogurt: I would guess his answer would be no, but I don't know the OP personally. Perhaps I'm wrong.
 
Perrotfish said:
I disagree with this. Most professions, and particularly most lucrative professions, are either useless, morally ambiguous, or outright predatory. Generally the way you make money is to cater to peoples fears and vices, or to fill artifical needs that your profession created.

There are a lot of people out there that wake up, go to work, and bust their hump to sell kids McDonalds hamburgers that will one day turn them into fat diabetics. Their are plenty of people that go to offices and fill white collar managerial roles whose sole function is generate useless and redundant TPS report style paperwork. There are a huge number of people whose industry is to generate and then overcharge for some kind of status symbol (and what inner city kid doesn't desperately want $120 shoes). There are even a lot of REALLY rich people who, through an understanding of the stock market, make their money without producing anything at all while hurting the companies that they are supposedly 'investing' in (for seconds at a time).

Medicine is one of the very few jobs where you can actually do a lot of good without getting yourself fired. Don't under sell it.
Click to expand...


Not to brown nose a med student but damn.... I love this. Well said.👍
 
yeah that's good stuff there.. I quit my most lucrative job to go back to pre-med. I can NOT see myself in a corporate business environment, ever.
 
Perrotfish said:
Their are plenty of people that go to offices and fill white collar managerial roles whose sole function is generate useless and redundant TPS report style paperwork.
Click to expand...

Replace "offices" with "hospitals," and that comes pretty close to describing a fair chunk of a physician's work hours.
 
master burchare said:
That's not the same thing as helping people: the pharmaceutical and bioengineering firms that create the tools doctors use are just as helpful to people, doctors just get more credit because they interact with patients personally. Basically, saying you want to go into medicine as opposed to bioengineering or big pharma to "help people" is nonsensical, what you really want is to get the credit and thanks for helping people.
Click to expand...

This is a bit naive. After working in both bioengineering and big pharma firms, I can assure you that the average research scientist can't afford to worry about the end-user, but only his/her personal accomplishments and how those impact his/her career. You are so far away from the patient, that you are forced to compartmentalize your contributions.

"I'm not trying to cure cancer, I'm developing assays to evaluate molecules which may or may not do what we want them to do in animals, and may or may not become experimental drugs, which may or may not be approved therapeutics."

In addition, 99.9% of the work done in industry is utter failure. That's just the name of the game when every successful innovation makes 100's of millions of $$. The stakes are high and failure is constant. The average scientist will have played no role in the discovery of that ultra rare, successful medicine/medical device. Impactful scientists/engineers are a fleeting minority in industry.

At least in medicine, your singular goal everyday is to alleviate the suffering of an individual. In the biotech arena, you can spend years, or even an entire career, tinkering with minutiae that is ultimately irrelevant and has no greater impact, beyond draining your investors capital. Science for profit isn't all it's cracked up to be.
 
Last edited:
Having experience in business for three yrs, I think that businesses' primary motive is for profit, then stability. Sometimes, you hurt people (fire people, cut salary and benefits, increase prices, etc.) in order to serve this purpose as a business professional. In other words, help myself and my people (vs helping others in general) at all costs. But, medicine gives you oppurtunity to "never harm" because the job stability and profit are inherent, which leaves you enough room to be selfless and help others. Also, the feeling of self satisfaction from helping is better than taking the credit if you have integrity.
 
master burchare said:
Posting intelligence contributions to the thread as usual, ColeTheTroll. 👍
Click to expand...

It's my intelligent contribution to an intelligent thread, comrade. Look at you, being cutting edge and suggesting that money is a great reason to go into medicine. LOLWUT BUT THEN I CANT HELP PEOPLE LOL.

I don't disagree with you that money is an important part of choosing a career. But the rest of your post is idiotic.
 
Last edited:
gettheleadout said:
ITT: 7 posts to Burnett's Law.

Also,

oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpg
Click to expand...

Really, show me a few threads that claimed money is a better reason to go into medicine than helping people. Or just that "helping people" is an awful reason to go into medicine.

... Or do you just like posting gifs?
 
ColeOnTheRoll said:
It's my intelligent contribution to an intelligent thread, comrade. Look at you, being cutting edge and suggesting that money is a great reason to go into medicine. LOLWUT BUT THEN I CANT HELP PEOPLE LOL.

Please. And I agree with Perrot. While all professions "help" people - if we expand the meaning of "help" to making people money, assisting them in their criminal prosecution, and a multitude of other functions - medicine directly impacts the quality of life of an individual. By no means do I mean to denigrate any profession other than medicine; these things need to be done in order for society to function, and they aren't ignoble professions. However, you're ******ed if you genuinely think that working in business or law similarly improves the quality of lives of those it serves as medicine.
Click to expand...

Oh look at Cole the Troll go acting like he's some smart ass****. LOLWUT BUT YOU GOT A GOOD MCAT SCORE HOW CAN YOU NOT BE A SMARTASS LOL. Nice one adding a long ass comment to a thread you sarcastically called intelligent.

Please. You're ******ed if you think doctors are the sole reason we have such high quality of life today in the United States or any other developed country. Take out all of the industries that contribute to our economy today and bring us back to pre-1800, and I assure you our life expectancy will drop below 40 regardless of how many and how good our doctors are.
 
Perrotfish said:
All jobs are worthless some of the time, but that doesn't change the fact that some jobs are worthless all of the time.
Click to expand...

Why does a company that is interested in maximizing profit pay money to people whose jobs are worthless and add no value to the company? And if they add value to a company that people are willing to hand money over to in exchange for their services, how is the worker not contributing to helping people?
 
master burchare said:
Oh look at Cole the Troll go acting like he's some smart ass****. LOLWUT BUT YOU GOT A GOOD MCAT SCORE HOW CAN YOU NOT BE A SMARTASS LOL. Nice one adding a long ass comment to a thread you sarcastically called intelligent.

Please. You're ******ed if you think doctors are the sole reason we have such high quality of life today in the United States or any other developed country. Take out all of the industries that contribute to our economy today and bring us back to pre-1800, and I assure you our life expectancy will drop below 40 regardless of how many and how good our doctors are.
Click to expand...

u-mad-as-hell.jpg
 
ColeOnTheRoll said:
It's my intelligent contribution to an intelligent thread, comrade. Look at you, being cutting edge and suggesting that money is a great reason to go into medicine. LOLWUT BUT THEN I CANT HELP PEOPLE LOL.

Please. And I agree with Perrot. While all professions "help" people - if we expand the meaning of "help" to making people money, assisting them in their criminal prosecution, and a multitude of other functions - medicine directly impacts the quality of life of an individual. By no means do I mean to denigrate any profession other than medicine; these things need to be done in order for society to function, and they aren't ignoble professions. However, you're ******ed if you genuinely think that working in business or law similarly improves the quality of lives of those it serves as medicine.
Click to expand...


u-mad-as-hell.jpg
 
master burchare said:
Why does a company that is interested in maximizing profit pay money to people whose jobs are worthless and add no value to the company? And if they add value to a company that people are willing to hand money over to in exchange for their services, how is the worker not contributing to helping people?
Click to expand...

All depends on what you find value in. If you value money and material success, these things are very important, and a job that adds value to a company is desired. If you value things that aren't based on money, these things are meaningless, and, as a result, these jobs are meaningless.
 
ColeOnTheRoll said:
It's my intelligent contribution to an intelligent thread, comrade. Look at you, being cutting edge and suggesting that money is a great reason to go into medicine. LOLWUT BUT THEN I CANT HELP PEOPLE LOL.

I don't disagree with you that money is an important part of choosing a career. But the rest of your post is idiotic.
Click to expand...

Lol what's with the edit? Realize what you said was completely idiotic?
 
ColeOnTheRoll said:
All depends on what you find value in. If you value money and material success, these things are very important, and a job that adds value to a company is desired. If you value things that aren't based on money, these things are meaningless, and, as a result, these jobs are meaningless.
Click to expand...

That is probably the most incoherent, illogical argument I read all day. Congrats.
 
master burchare said:
Oh look at Cole the Troll go acting like he's some smart ass****. LOLWUT BUT YOU GOT A GOOD MCAT SCORE HOW CAN YOU NOT BE A SMARTASS LOL. Nice one adding a long ass comment to a thread you sarcastically called intelligent.

Please. You're ******ed if you think doctors are the sole reason we have such high quality of life today in the United States or any other developed country. Take out all of the industries that contribute to our economy today and bring us back to pre-1800, and I assure you our life expectancy will drop below 40 regardless of how many and how good our doctors are.
Click to expand...
While Cole's sarcasm is often annoying as hell, he is right here and YOU SIR are the ******.

I can't believe you genuinely think that other professions such as Wallstreet investors and lawyers contribute as much to the well being of society's health as medicine does. I think I understood that this was not true when I was maybe 4 years old. Pull your head out of your ass and stop trolling. 🙄
 
master burchare said:
For some people, the most money they could possibly make is by going into medicine. Guaranteed high salaries as long as you can get in (which, really, is not that hard. Just get a >3.5 and >32, generic clinical/research experiences, and you'll be fine as long as you apply broadly). Wanting to make money and wanting to be a good doctor are NOT mutually exclusive either - you can strive to be a great doctor while striving to get paid. There are plenty of people who can't be successful on Wall St. or make partner in a consulting/law firm - many of these people do have the ability to maximize their life income through medicine though.

"Helping people," though, is a really stupid reason to go into medicine. News flash: all professions help people. You can't make money unless someone needs your help with something. The only way medicine is different is because you get to see firsthand your services improving the lives of others. That's not the same thing as helping people: the pharmaceutical and bioengineering firms that create the tools doctors use are just as helpful to people, doctors just get more credit because they interact with patients personally. Basically, saying you want to go into medicine as opposed to bioengineering or big pharma to "help people" is nonsensical, what you really want is to get the credit and thanks for helping people.
Click to expand...

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=US#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=5hfYJsQAhl0
 
rxnfiend said:
While Cole's sarcasm is often annoying as hell, he is right here and YOU SIR are the ******.

I can't believe you genuinely think that other professions such as Wallstreet investors and lawyers contribute as much to the well being of society's health as medicine does. I think I understood that this was not true when I was maybe 4 years old. Pull your head out of your ass and stop trolling. 🙄
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo

You really think medicine is the only thing important for our health? You are very naive (like a 4 year old who thinks only doctors are needed to keep a society healthy).
 
master burchare said:
Really, show me a few threads that claimed money is a better reason to go into medicine than helping people. Or just that "helping people" is an awful reason to go into medicine.

... Or do you just like posting gifs?
Click to expand...
1. MY PLEASURE

ITT: Becoming a Doctor for the money... why the hell not?

^ From like 2 months ago genius.

Money vs. Passion / Fears and Thoughts of Choosing a Career

Am I the only one who sees this reason for going into medicine?

2. Not a .gif lololol
 
Last edited:
master burchare said:
Why does a company that is interested in maximizing profit pay money to people whose jobs are worthless and add no value to the company? And if they add value to a company that people are willing to hand money over to in exchange for their services, how is the worker not contributing to helping people?
Click to expand...

It is possible for something to be profitable and yet be worthless or even bad. A lot of industries take advantage of people's fears, prejudices, weaknesses, and ignorance to sell them products that don't help them or which actually hurt them. Generally I would view industries as bad when the effect that they ultimately have on the customer is either negligable or even the opposite of the effect which the customer was ultimately trying to pay for. Some examples:

A customer with COPD buys a healing crystal. Nothing happens to his COPD. Bad product, and the salesman has a bad job.

A financial company markets a sub-prime mortgage and a series of high interest credit cards to a family who wants to live a more luxurious lifestyle, despite knowing that the family is unlikely to ever pay back the loans. The company profits from the initial payments and their ultimate repossession of the family's assets, and the family is now out on the street. Bad product, produced by bad employees.

A bureaucrat is hired (indirectly, though the government) for the Enviornmental Protection agency to safeguard florida wetlands. The employee's job is to set up a series of photo-ops for various Florida politicians which eats up the entire budget for the product. No taxpayers gets the service they paid for. Bad product, bad employee.

I could go on
 
master burchare said:
Why does a company that is interested in maximizing profit pay money to people whose jobs are worthless and add no value to the company? And if they add value to a company that people are willing to hand money over to in exchange for their services, how is the worker not contributing to helping people?
Click to expand...

I can see what you're saying, and applaud you for thinking outside the box. I especially agree with this statement. The people who are discounting every other profession for not directly impacting the lives of others are being short-sighted and naive. We live in a society, and a consumer-driven society at that, and pretty much every job in that society is important and impacts the whole of what we have. Especially in the current economic climate, any single industry that employs someone is a good thing. Not every part of everyone's day is noble, but without working for a paycheck, that person is in serious trouble and that is put on the back of the rest of society. Think about it, by just hiring one person for whatever job, the employer is helping that one person survive. That's tremendous.
 
No, a 3.5+ GPA and a 32+ MCAT are NOT easy to get. Look at the acceptance rates for med schools versus law schools and business schools. Relative to almost all other graduate/doctoral programs, medicine is much harder to get into.


master burchare said:
For some people, the most money they could possibly make is by going into medicine. Guaranteed high salaries as long as you can get in (which, really, is not that hard. Just get a >3.5 and >32, generic clinical/research experiences, and you'll be fine as long as you apply broadly). Wanting to make money and wanting to be a good doctor are NOT mutually exclusive either - you can strive to be a great doctor while striving to get paid. There are plenty of people who can't be successful on Wall St. or make partner in a consulting/law firm - many of these people do have the ability to maximize their life income through medicine though.

"Helping people," though, is a really stupid reason to go into medicine. News flash: all professions help people. You can't make money unless someone needs your help with something. The only way medicine is different is because you get to see firsthand your services improving the lives of others. That's not the same thing as helping people: the pharmaceutical and bioengineering firms that create the tools doctors use are just as helpful to people, doctors just get more credit because they interact with patients personally. Basically, saying you want to go into medicine as opposed to bioengineering or big pharma to "help people" is nonsensical, what you really want is to get the credit and thanks for helping people.
Click to expand...
 
this forum can be ridiculous. not everyone has bulletproof logic. that is the purpose of healthy debate. but too often, rescuable and potential positive discussions turn into personal name calling and macro posting. no one should be calling anybody a ******. but there is still a lot of good discussion going on here.

e: transfec damn it you quoted while i was still editing lol
 
Last edited:
oldyogurt said:
this forum can be ridiculous. not everyone has bulletproof logic. that is the purpose of healthy debate. but more often than not, rescuable and potential positive discussions turn into personal name calling and macro posting. no one should be calling anybody a ******.
Click to expand...

👍

People grow quite a pair when sitting behind a computer screen. Lol
 
Going in it for the money is your choice, Going in it to help people is your choice. I don't think you can tell people that there choice is non sense. Helping people as doctors is very different than helping people in other professions. Landscapers help people out to make people yards nice. Grocery clerks help people with there groceries. Dillards employees help people find clothes. But helping people as doctors is completely different. Sometimes you are the only thing standing between someone and death. Everyone looks to you and the knowledge you have of the medical field to quickly give orders and save someones life. No disrespect to pharm students out there, but making drugs to help people long term is way different than say emergency medicine. If you want to go in it for the money more power to you. But your no one to say that going in to medicine to help people is "non sensical".
 
general consensus is "money" is not a good inherent reason to go into medicine.

Generally accepted, that if you are just there for the money, you likely wont make it through the training, especially residency, where you spend 3+ years making 35-45k a year. 80 hour work weeks, and you are making less an hour than the undergrad bar tender.

Job stability is a good reason to go into medicine, which segways into my next note.

There are a lot of jobs an individual capable of making it into and through medical school/residency training, can do, and make just as much money.

You hear a lot about new lawyers and business degree graduates having a hard time finding a job. Promise you, they (in general) didn't have to compete at the level that medical students did to get their degrees. They didn't and don't have to dedicate anywhere near the same level of work as medical students did.

Putting it simply, medicine is far more competitive than just about any other field, and if you can make it in medicine, chances are, with the same amount of effort in another field, you can make it there.

That being said, lawyers and business men have jobs that are far less stable.

Maybe alright for another career duration, but this country is facing hard times, and there is bound to be a transition that 'deals' with the people that caused those problems. =/.

Even problems in medicine now-a-days... Are they issues with doctors, or the business aspect of it, *cough* pharmaceuticals.

You have to make a living, that's a given. You harness job stability with becoming a physician, but money is not an inherent reason to go into medicine.

A lot of premeds quote 600+k a year surgeons. By and far the vast minority, and with the same amount of effort, you could make some good money in another field. Beyond that, it's hard to make it through the grueling residency unless you have a inherent desire to help people.

Those big numbers next to surgeons on ussal.com should come with disclaimers. If you don't have an interest in helping people you will have a hard time making it through residency. With just as much effort (and likely much less) you can earn a comparable salary in another field.
 
The point being lost in all of this is that there's nothing wrong with wanting to help people, but you better have a better reason than that for wanting to be a physician. If you like science, like medicine, want to help people, want to make a difference in people's lives, why not be a nurse? Or a pharmacist? Or an EMT? There's a lot of effort and sacrifice that goes into becoming a physician that doesn't come with those other careers.

So the bottom line is to think about what you're really gaining by becoming a physician over the other careers.
 
coleontheroll said:
it's my intelligent contribution to an intelligent thread, comrade. Look at you, being cutting edge and suggesting that money is a great reason to go into medicine. Lolwut but then i cant help people lol.

I don't disagree with you that money is an important part of choosing a career. But the rest of your post is idiotic.
Click to expand...

meet me on the fresh train
 
Perrotfish said:
All jobs are worthless some of the time, but that doesn't change the fact that some jobs are worthless all of the time.
Click to expand...

I think your view of private industry could use a little calibration. If people didn't have those worthless jobs, with their worthless employer-provided health insurance, your paycheck as a physician would be...worthless. Just because you don't understand what a consultant or financial analyst or investment banker do to give value to their customers, doesn't mean that the value isn't there. The same argument is currently being heaped on top of physicians by an uneducated populace that feels that for the same money, instead of a bunch of prick doctors we could just have a bunch of nurses do the same thing, at the same quality and higher quantity and save ourselves from the fiscal catastrophe we have looming on the horizon.
 
master burchare said:
Please. You're ******ed if you think doctors are the sole reason we have such high quality of life today in the United States or any other developed country. Take out all of the industries that contribute to our economy today and bring us back to pre-1800, and I assure you our life expectancy will drop below 40 regardless of how many and how good our doctors are.
Click to expand...
I think you might be referring to sanitation and water industries. I agree that physicians sometimes glorify themselves and the work that they do way too much. They're not the only ones contributing to helping people maintain a healthy body. I know where the nearest river is but I sure am glad that some people down at some water plant are giving me the ability to have water come out of a faucet or toilet when I turn the knob. I know how to grow vegetables but I'm glad that some farmer, vegetable pickers, delivery drivers, and food service people out there allow me to stand in an air conditioned room and choose from 15 different romaine lettuce bundles. I know how to bury and burn trash, but I'd rather not do that. That would be annoying and probably contaminate the water system. It's a good thing that a couple of guys come along to take my waste away.
 
gettheleadout said:
1. MY PLEASURE

ITT: Becoming a Doctor for the money... why the hell not?

^ From like 2 months ago genius.

Money vs. Passion / Fears and Thoughts of Choosing a Career

Am I the only one who sees this reason for going into medicine?

2. Not a .gif lololol
Click to expand...

Oh wow, people talked about money before on SDN? Man, I am embarrassed - I never knew such a topic could come up. All threads that mention money in the title OR reasons to go into medicine should be auto-locked. Furthermore, so should all threads that deal with prerequisites, extracurriculars, and research since there have already been threads on those subjects. In fact, we should no longer be allowed to post new threads since someone has almost certainly posted a prior thread discussing something tangentially related.

No not really. I did a search and saw that first thread before I created this one. I did more than address going into medicine for money in this thread - reread the first post if you still can't figure it out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
Is it a bad look to not attend a second look day?
Replies
8
Views
2K
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
Goro
Good students, this is what you're going into Medicine for.
Replies
7
Views
2K
sarcasmrules
S
P
Is being a"gunner" a bad thing?
Replies
11
Views
2K
Isoval
Isoval
O
How bad is it? Academic IA
Replies
5
Views
932
Goro
Goro
E
What day is AMCAS on for verification? Is there a way to check this?
Replies
7
Views
1K
maybefuturedoctor7
M
Top