Money vs Values

[Firik]

Finally, I decided to write this post, release from the chest, be criticized, and importantly realizing before going too far down the road.

I genuinely believe I am interested to become a dentist, not for the money but rather for an opportunity to make an impact to many, every day. This will make me happy, because knowing that I made a difference in someone's life to improve their quality of life is a rewarding experience. I have experience with this from tutoring in my school and many liked my style of engagement and explaining concepts. I like meeting new individuals and getting to learn their stories and obstacles, which is what dentist do on a daily basis. I have been meeting new people regularly for like 10 years now; in work, in school and in my neighborhoods. The point is, I will be doing what I like. Let me sum up, I want to be a dentist because I will help navigate others to a better and healthier future and meeting others is an exciting hobby.

You may argue that some patients are not friendly and even questioning your work. Again, I had experienced this in my tutoring and the response I have you can always find their "heart" and gain their acceptance.
You may ask, why do you want to be happy? Well, if I have the purpose in life and striving for bettering myself will bring me happiness. I need happiness to better interact with those that surround me and stay away from doing harmful/illegal activities, as simple as smoking. I want to contribute to society, I want to have a great family, and I want to make a difference those that surround me. Overall, happiness is a tool for me to be a better person.

Ultimately, I really do not look at debt or amount of debt as an issue. Yes, I am aware that after school I will have about $440,000 school fees and after repayment in 10 years $260,000 loan fees = $700,000 in debt. With that said, I believe by doing what I like and getting paid as most undergraduate students after school will be okay with me until I pay off my debt. What I mean is, getting $140,000 in year and $100,000 after tax, and $40,000 left after paying bills/loans is sufficient to live for 10 years. Everyone here saying, that they wished they did something to save money and get as little debt as possible. Yes, I want to have lower loans, but I am more interested to be a dentist.

In summary, money always comes and go, but the skills you obtained and lifelong profession will stay with you forever. Thus, money is not something you want to chase, because once you reach that point you will realize that you missed other incredible staff that you wished you did.

What are your thoughts? Please share.

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[Inmyfillings]

Go to the cheapest school.

 

[princeafrica]

I am confused. This sounds like the other 100+ posts about which school should I go to but in more words. You will be a dentist either way with high or low loans and I don't know why people are correlating lower loans with bad dentist??


@Big Time Hoosier will probably appear shortly

 

[Tommy1234]

Finally, I decided to write this post, release from the chest, be criticized, and importantly realizing before going too far down the road.

I genuinely believe I am interested to become a dentist, not for the money but rather for an opportunity to make an impact to many, every day. This will make me happy, because knowing that I made a difference in someone's life to improve their quality of life is a rewarding experience. I have experience with this from tutoring in my school and many liked my style of engagement and explaining concepts. I like meeting new individuals and getting to learn their stories and obstacles, which is what dentist do on a daily basis. I have been meeting new people regularly for like 10 years now; in work, in school and in my neighborhoods. The point is, I will be doing what I like. Let me sum up, I want to be a dentist because I will help navigate others to a better and healthier future and meeting others is an exciting hobby.

You may argue that some patients are not friendly and even questioning your work. Again, I had experienced this in my tutoring and the response I have you can always find their "heart" and gain their acceptance.
You may ask, why do you want to be happy? Well, if I have the purpose in life and striving for bettering myself will bring me happiness. I need happiness to better interact with those that surround me and stay away from doing harmful/illegal activities, as simple as smoking. I want to contribute to society, I want to have a great family, and I want to make a difference those that surround me. Overall, happiness is a tool for me to be a better person.

Ultimately, I really do not look at debt or amount of debt as an issue. Yes, I am aware that after school I will have about $440,000 school fees and after repayment in 10 years $260,000 loan fees = $700,000 in debt. With that said, I believe by doing what I like and getting paid as most undergraduate students after school will be okay with me until I pay off my debt. What I mean is, getting $140,000 in year and $100,000 after tax, and $40,000 left after paying bills/loans is sufficient to live for 10 years. Everyone here saying, that they wished they did something to save money and get as little debt as possible. Yes, I want to have lower loans, but I am more interested to be a dentist.

In summary, money always comes and go, but the skills you obtained and lifelong profession will stay with you forever. Thus, money is not something you want to chase, because once you reach that point you will realize that you missed other incredible staff that you wished you did.

What are your thoughts? Please share.

Is it hard to find dental jobs after grad? How job market?

 

[themuffinman11]

Is it hard to find dental jobs after grad? How job market?

Depends where you want to live, if you want to work in SoCal for example, expect lots of competition and saturation of dentists

On the other hand, if you go to a rural area, you'll be able to find plenty of jobs

 

[Faefly]

I don't care about money either!
I agree with you Op
Money comes and goes. Choose whatever makes you happy!
Don't think about tomorrow, as you might disappear tonight anyway!

That's being said, you shouldn't do stupid things today thinking you won't be alive tomorrow.

Always choose wisely and think about how you will deal with the consequences of your choices.

 

[Firik]

This was more of the post to give my input to the money discussion and all those that concern about the debt.

 

[Firik]

I don't know why people are correlating lower loans with bad dentist??

I am curious based on what did you make this conclusion?

 

[AppalachianDentalBoy]

TBH I'm not looking for a lot of dough but the freedom dentistry provides is whats really nice. The only currency that really matters is time. Doesn't matter how much money you have in your later years if you're too sick or frail to enjoy it.

 

[Firik]

TBH I'm not looking for a lot of dough but the freedom dentistry provides is whats really nice. The only currency that really matters is time. Doesn't matter how much money you have in your later years if you're too sick or frail to enjoy it.

Great point to be remembered!

 

[2TH MVR]

OP,
If you decide to work as an employee. Then yes ... money can be less important for YOU.
If ... You start your own practice .... then money will become more important. You need to be successful in monetary terms to run a HAPPY private practice. Staff will expect raises. Patients will expect a clean,comfortable office. All supplies and services tend to cost more which requires more $$$. Your lease or rent will increase every year. Running a successful dental practice means understanding and appreciating money.
Again .... If money means nothing to you .... Then plan on being an employee with no economic concerns.

 

[Firik]

OP,
If you decide to work as an employee. Then yes ... money can be less important for YOU.
If ... You start your own practice .... then money will become more important. You need to be successful in monetary terms to run a HAPPY private practice. Staff will expect raises. Patients will expect a clean,comfortable office. All supplies and services tend to cost more which requires more $$$. Your lease or rent will increase every year. Running a successful dental practice means understanding and appreciating money.
Again .... If money means nothing to you .... Then plan on being an employee with no economic concerns.

Thanks for the input.
I have been exposed to the dentist that I shadowed who exposed business and all other issues that he/she manages. He/she gets angry from when someone drops the appointment to his/her staff who does not know how to resolve technical issues. He/she makes more than enough to live a comfortable life but I found that he/she is not at all satisfied because of how much energy he/she puts to manage the clinic.
I guess down the road I need to figure out some balance between two. I am definitely planning to be an employee for at least 5 years and then consider other options.

 

[2TH MVR]

Thanks for the input.
I have been exposed to the dentist that I shadowed who exposed business and all other issues that he/she manages. He/she gets angry from when someone drops the appointment to his/her staff who does not know how to resolve technical issues. He/she makes more than enough to live a comfortable life but I found that he/she is not at all satisfied because of how much energy he/she puts to manage the clinic.
I guess down the road I need to figure out some balance between two. I am definitely planning to be an employee for at least 5 years and then consider other options.

That's the answer. Owning your own practice means wearing many different hats. Your the dentist. I.T person. Plumber. Cleaner. Bill payer. Staff manager. Patient manager. Etc. Etc believe me ..... That list of your responsibilities is endless. What makes it all worth it is EARNING enough money to make sure you are well compensated for all your hard work. No one works for free. If that list of responsibilities outgrows your compensation.... Then something has to change.

If money means nothing. Run the smallest practice possible with few staff. See 1 patient every other hour. No stress, but also less $.

Dentistry is all about choices.

 

[KingT’Challa]

With dentistry, as with many of the health care fields, the money will be there. You will pay off your loans and live comfortably. But there are much easier and less arduous ways to make money. If you go into a job solely for the cash, and not because it is not what you want to devote your life too, then burnout might be in your future. If you want to make money quick, get into computer science and analytics and you'll be making 6 figures quick. Healthcare is ultimately about serving your patients the best you can, and that is why the struggle is worth it.

 

[NITRAS]

...

Ultimately, I really do not look at debt or amount of debt as an issue. Yes, I am aware that after school I will have about $440,000 school fees and after repayment in 10 years $260,000 loan fees = $700,000 in debt. With that said, I believe by doing what I like and getting paid as most undergraduate students after school will be okay with me until I pay off my debt. What I mean is, getting $140,000 in year and $100,000 after tax, and $40,000 left after paying bills/loans is sufficient to live for 10 years. Everyone here saying, that they wished they did something to save money and get as little debt as possible. Yes, I want to have lower loans, but I am more interested to be a dentist.

In summary, money always comes and go, but the skills you obtained and lifelong profession will stay with you forever. Thus, money is not something you want to chase, because once you reach that point you will realize that you missed other incredible staff that you wished you did.

What are your thoughts? Please share.

You go several hundred thousand dollars in debt, you'll will find out how important money is. You are signing up for slavery. You sound far too flippant for making decisions that will make your choices for decades to come. Depending on PSLF on the prayer that it will still exist in 10 years is optimistic at best. Betting your future on it, is stupid.

Money is important. Money gives you options. I do believe that most people make the most money where they can monetize their skills and talents, but the thought that money and debt are not important is very naive.

I love being a physician. I like many things about it, but if the tomorrow Congress declared that I could only make $40,000 a year, I'd find a new career that went along with my skills, talents, and passion. I have a duty to my family to provide, and I'm worth more than that.

If I had to go $700,000 in debt to become a doctor, I wouldn't do it. (BTW, MD's make more than DDS right now).

My opinion. I've also paid off a six figure student loan, and known what it feels like to make $50k, $100k, and up to my current income while having a wife and two kids.

 

[Firik]

You go several hundred thousand dollars in debt, you'll will find out how important money is. You are signing up for slavery. You sound far too flippant for making decisions that will make your choices for decades to come. Depending on PSLF on the prayer that it will still exist in 10 years is optimistic at best. Betting your future on it, is stupid.

Money is important. Money gives you options. I do believe that most people make the most money where they can monetize their skills and talents, but the thought that money and debt are not important is very naive.

I love being a physician. I like many things about it, but if the tomorrow Congress declared that I could only make $40,000 a year, I'd find a new career that went along with my skills, talents, and passion. I have a duty to my family to provide, and I'm worth more than that.

If I had to go $700,000 in debt to become a doctor, I wouldn't do it. (BTW, MD's make more than DDS right now).

My opinion. I've also paid off a six figure student loan, and known what it feels like to make $50k, $100k, and up to my current income while having a wife and two kids.

Thanks for the reply!
I agree with the money plays a big role when it comes to supporting a family. Do you believe that your family would be okay if they have enough food, clothes and a stable place to live? Or would you prefer to spoil them by giving fancy brand clothes, shop at an expensive grocery store, go to restaurants weekly and travel to places couples times in a year? I believe with choice #1 you need $70,000 but with choice #2 is $150,000 (just estimates). The point I am trying to make that you can support your family without six figure salary.

I also agree for telling me that I am flippant and naive, which is why I wanted some discussion to take some thoughts on this.

I disagree with the slavery part, because almost any job in U.S. has pretty good rights for an employee compared to the third world countries where indeed is slavery. You work only food and barely provide basic needs to your family and treated poorly by your employer. That's what slavery is. Most of them (males) are forced to move to a different country to send money to their family (and live apart).

As for making $40,000 a year is a temporary once paying the debt. In the long run it will be possible to buy a house and even open a practice.
You are more qualified to talk on this topic, whereas I don't.
I am curious to know. Have you lived outside of U.S? Have you been raised in working-class family?
Because I have and somehow magically I survived! I think to complain about high debt and poor quality of life as a dentist is absurd.

 

[NITRAS]

If you have a ton of debt, you limit your choices.

Like, you would make different decisions on what you would practice, how you would practice, and where based on your debt load. Want to go part time, or do something different because your family needs have changed. . . can't, you have to pay off a ton of debt. Want to take a risk and start something new and exciting that will probably increase your income long term, but have a few years of start up. . . . nope, you have to take guaranteed income cause you have to pay off debt.

For example, my wife and i paid off my student loans from a combination of an inheritance, and cash-flowed most of it through residency. I chose a job because I didn't have to work weekends, and allowed me to have access to specialty physicians to potentially go on to fellowship later on if I wanted. The pay was significantly lower than other options. The salary was $175k for 1 on, 1 off (for those that are currious, my first paycheck was like $4000 every two weeks. . . it sure didn't feel like a ton of money). I turned down other jobs that required nights, swing shift, large census, in the boonies that paid base of $300k with possibility to make much more along with sign on bonuses.

My family needs have changed, I really like my job, am no longer pursuing fellowship, and trying to figure out my long term plan. When I was 23 and starting medical school, wanting to get into ortho (LOL) I had to idea what my life was going to look like. If i didn't have that $100k in student loan debt in the beginning, my net worth would easily be a couple hundred thousand more than it is right now.

 

[Firik]

If you have a ton of debt, you limit your choices.

Like, you would make different decisions on what you would practice, how you would practice, and where based on your debt load. Want to go part time, or do something different because your family needs have changed. . . can't, you have to pay off a ton of debt. Want to take a risk and start something new and exciting that will probably increase your income long term, but have a few years of start up. . . . nope, you have to take guaranteed income cause you have to pay off debt.

For example, my wife and i paid off my student loans from a combination of an inheritance, and cash-flowed most of it through residency. I chose a job because I didn't have to work weekends, and allowed me to have access to specialty physicians to potentially go on to fellowship later on if I wanted. The pay was significantly lower than other options. The salary was $175k for 1 on, 1 off (for those that are currious, my first paycheck was like $4000 every two weeks. . . it sure didn't feel like a ton of money). I turned down other jobs that required nights, swing shift, large census, in the boonies that paid base of $300k with possibility to make much more along with sign on bonuses.

My family needs have changed, I really like my job, am no longer pursuing fellowship, and trying to figure out my long term plan. When I was 23 and starting medical school, wanting to get into ortho (LOL) I had to idea what my life was going to look like. If i didn't have that $100k in student loan debt in the beginning, my net worth would easily be a couple hundred thousand more than it is right now.

In short, I like your decision to put your family as a priority.

 

[allantois]

What is it about dentistry that indoctrinates people to pursue it no matter the cost? What if it cost 1 million? Oh wait, it already does for some specialties

Also, just how many people would say that their dentist made a huge impact in their life

 

[Firik]

What is it about dentistry that indoctrinates people to pursue it no matter the cost? What if it cost 1 million? Oh wait, it already does for some specialties

Also, just how many people would say that their dentist made a huge impact in their life

Dentist made such a huge impact on me that it is the biggest reason for me to become a dentist!

 

[Ruguox3]

I think 40k salary means different things at different points of one's life. At 23 years old, 40k is more than enough. But at 28 years old, you may have a family to feed and may have a mortgage to pay for, 40k is not a livable salary.

 

[Firik]

I think 40k salary means different things at different points of one's life. At 23 years old, 40k is more than enough. But at 28 years old, you may have a family to feed and may have a mortgage to pay for, 40k is not a livable salary.

What about 40k that I will bring into the table and even 30k that she will contribute to the family? Wouldn't be that enough?

 

[2TH MVR]

Have you considered the military? You can serve your country. Live a frugal life. And no debt. Win-win-win.
In contrast ... Your rationalizing your future high DS debt to a life of servitude and a forced frugal life.

 

[Ruguox3]

What about 40k that I will bring into the table and even 30k that she will contribute to the family? Wouldn't be that enough?

It might be enough but you won't be saving a lot at the end of each month. For each month, let's say you have $6000 combined to spend. You have to account for mortgage or rent, HOA fees, car loans/insurance/other maintenance, wife's clothes/skin products/make up (this category eats up a lot of money), child's food/diapers/clothes/school fees/presents/toys etc., money to pay for your parents' living expenses, and still need to save up a chunk of money for your kids' college funds and emergency funds. Anything left, which isn't a whole lot, can be used for hanging out with friends and other fun things.

That's similar to my current situation. I'm getting 50k salary and wife is getting about 40k. After taxes, we only take home about $5000 each month.. and we wish we had more in savings.

 

[Firik]

You made solid points. I am curious to learn from you, how do family with three kids manage to live on $55k per year (after taxes).

money to pay for your parents' living expenses, and still need to save up a chunk of money for your kids' college funds and emergency funds.

That would make sense. I was thinking paying for parent's living expenses should not be more than $500 per month since they have their own funds. Or at least they should understand you are paying your college debt and after you paid out you will give them much more. Same for college funds. By the time they reach that age, I would think you will pay the debt and can your salary to pay for college.

All I am trying to understand is how come middle-class family with $60k (after taxes) can leave okay which dental family has struggled with $70k (after taxes) (as an example).