Months at Ross Medical School?

[an aspiring doctor]

What is the amount of months that you would have to spend at Ross Medical school during your first and second year until you returned home to lets say for example New York to finish your third and fourth year?

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[VisionaryTics]

What is the amount of months that you would have to spend at Ross Medical school during your first and second year until you returned home to lets say for example New York to finish your third and fourth year?

Dont do it

 

[an aspiring doctor]

Would it plausible to attend this school if you want to become a physiatrist (PM&R)? From what I have gathered the profession is considered to be primary care and it is a respectable career. I have put Ross up as an option because I figured you could become a physiatrist there.

 

[MadRadLad]

If you want to have options and even a modicum of security in your future then don't go to Ross.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

18 months minimum....

 

[an aspiring doctor]

I have made it an option because I do not want to stay out of school any longer. I wanted to inquire about the months because I am going to find it hard to be separated from my family for so long. Do you know if it is an easy thing to get a PMR residency in New York from Ross Medical school?

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I have made it an option because I do not want to stay out of school any longer. I wanted to inquire about the months because I am going to find it hard to be separated from my family for so long. Do you know if it is an easy thing to get a PMR residency in New York from Ross Medical school?

As someone who just started med school in the US, I can tell you nothing is easy, and even for AMG. However, if you go there and you do well in you classes and do above average on step 1 (230+), you should not have any issue matching into PM&R IMO...

 

[MadRadLad]

I have made it an option because I do not want to stay out of school any longer. I wanted to inquire about the months because I am going to find it hard to be separated from my family for so long. Do you know if it is an easy thing to get a PMR residency in New York from Ross Medical school?

PM&R is not known as being especially competitive, but from what I understand there are not a ton of residency spots. If you do well at Ross and get a good step 1 score/LoRs it's certainly possible. As an IMG you may not have the greatest choice of programs/locations though.

 

[an aspiring doctor]

Does anyone know how the curriculum at Ross functions? I have been told that you can spend 16 months there for your first and second year. Is this going to be straight through?

 

[MadRadLad]

Would I have a hard time getting a spot in New York?

Take a look at this, page 16: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/resultsanddata2013.pdf

Out of 103 PM&R positions, only 9 went to US IMGs (i'm assuming you're a US citizen). None went unfilled.

So it's hard to gauge. I'm not sure how many of those spots are in NY and how competitive those programs are. Maybe look into programs and see how many of their residents are IMGs.

 

[an aspiring doctor]

Thank you for your help!

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I have made it an option because I do not want to stay out of school any longer. I wanted to inquire about the months because I am going to find it hard to be separated from my family for so long. Do you know if it is an easy thing to get a PMR residency in New York from Ross Medical school?

One of the most common, and most foolish reasons that people go to caribbean schools right here.

For one, there is nothing wrong with taking a little extra time if it means you'll have an application that is competitive for US programs.

For two, students at the carib programs notoriously don't graduate in 4 years, so any time you think you are "saving" may get eaten up on the backend.

For three, you're going to be looking at expensive tuition and loans everywhere - US or Carib. Rushing into this without understanding what you're getting yourself into is foolish.

 

[MadRadLad]

Also, in the PDF link I posted above, notice that only 53% of US IMGs even match....2706 out of 5095.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

I have made it an option because I do not want to stay out of school any longer. I wanted to inquire about the months because I am going to find it hard to be separated from my family for so long. Do you know if it is an easy thing to get a PMR residency in New York from Ross Medical school?

I'd expect the competitiveness of PM&R to go up as more and more people realize it's a good lifestyle specialty.

 

[an aspiring doctor]

I have been contemplating about different routes because I have been struggling with the MCAT. If I do not make it into an osteopathic medical program by the end of the year then I will look more in depth into the Ross medical program because I have already been out of school for a year. If I do not make it into the Fall 2015 cycle then it will be three years. Does anyone have any recommendations for medical programs outside the country that are affiliated?

 

[DermViser]

Would it plausible to attend this school if you want to become a physiatrist (PM&R)? From what I have gathered the profession is considered to be primary care and it is a respectable career. I have put Ross up as an option because I figured you could become a physiatrist there.

You gathered wrong. PM&R is not primary care.

 

[DermViser]

I have made it an option because I do not want to stay out of school any longer. I wanted to inquire about the months because I am going to find it hard to be separated from my family for so long. Do you know if it is an easy thing to get a PMR residency in New York from Ross Medical school?

Perfect reason to take six figure nondischargeable debt. If you're struggling with the MCAT you shouldn't be in med school. Period.

 

[MadRadLad]

I don't mean to be rude and/or dismissive, but if you cannot make it into a DO program then you may want to reconsider a career in medicine. It doesn't get any easier from here on, and even if you end up in the Carribbean keep in mind your performance will be under even greater scrutiny (i.e. you'll need even stronger scores on Step 1 than the average US grad to convince residencies of your capability).

Have you applied before and/or retaken the MCAT? Feel free to PM if necessary.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I have been contemplating about different routes because I have been struggling with the MCAT. If I do not make it into an osteopathic medical program by the end of the year then I will look more in depth into the Ross medical program because I have already been out of school for a year. If I do not make it into the Fall 2015 cycle then it will be three years. Does anyone have any recommendations for medical programs outside the country that are affiliated?

Your posts reveal that you have no clue what you are getting yourself into. You've gotten a lot of good advice here that you seem intent on ignoring. I sincerely hope you reconsider

 

[Smurfette]

Moving to Caribbean forum where this question is more appropriate.

 

[DermViser]

Your posts reveal that you have no clue what you are getting yourself into. You've gotten a lot of good advice here that you seem intent on ignoring. I sincerely hope you reconsider

Always amazing to me how easily people take six figure debt, without thinking things thru.

 

[an aspiring doctor]

I have not taken the MCAT however it is coming up for me. To my dismay my diagnostics have been all over the place. I have scored as high as a 27 on one diagnostic however I got a 24 on my last diagnostic (AAMC 8). The other diagnostics I have taken fell in that proximity. I graduated with a strong GPA from a prestigious pre med program and have accumulated an efficient amount of laboratory experience in the process. As I have assembled my application I have done research on the medical programs in my area. All of the allopathic and osteopathic programs require an MCAT over 31. There is one osteopathic program that wants a 28 however it would not be logical to rely everything on one program. If I get accepted in an out of state program I may end up paying the same amount as I would if I went to one of the big three because I would not be a resident. In addition I may have to wait another cycle to get into the out of state program because it would take me more time to gain two or three points to get in. Deadlines for these medical programs are around November. Thank you all for your feedback!

 

[DermViser]

I have not taken the MCAT however it is coming up for me. To my dismay my diagnostics have been all over the place. I have scored as high as a 27 on one diagnostic however I got a 24 on my last diagnostic (AAMC 8). The other diagnostics I have taken fell in that proximity. I graduated with a strong GPA from a prestigious pre med program and have accumulated an efficient amount of laboratory experience in the process. As I have assembled my application I have done research on the medical programs in my area. All of the allopathic and osteopathic programs require an MCAT over 31. There is one osteopathic program that wants a 28 however it would not be logical to rely everything on one program. If I get accepted in an out of state program I may end up paying the same amount as I would if I went to one of the big three because I would not be a resident. In addition I may have to wait another cycle to get into the out of state program because it would take me more time to gain two or three points to get in. Deadlines for these medical programs are around November. Thank you all for your feedback!

Your comparison of an out-of-state med school vs. a Big 3 Caribbean school based on cost is galling. If you are not able to get the MCAT score needed to get into medical school, it means you're not cut out for medical school. It's the cold, hard truth. Sorry. There's a reason that GPA is not the only metric used. MCAT is just as if not more important bc it can't be gamed like GPA can. Also newsflash (everyone who takes premed requirements has laboratory experience).

 

[MadRadLad]

I have not taken the MCAT however it is coming up for me. To my dismay my diagnostics have been all over the place. I have scored as high as a 27 on one diagnostic however I got a 24 on my last diagnostic (AAMC 8). The other diagnostics I have taken fell in that proximity. I graduated with a strong GPA from a prestigious pre med program and have accumulated an efficient amount of laboratory experience in the process. As I have assembled my application I have done research on the medical programs in my area. All of the allopathic and osteopathic programs require an MCAT over 31. There is one osteopathic program that wants a 28 however it would not be logical to rely everything on one program. If I get accepted in an out of state program I may end up paying the same amount as I would if I went to one of the big three because I would not be a resident. In addition I may have to wait another cycle to get into the out of state program because it would take me more time to gain two or three points to get in. Deadlines for these medical programs are around November. Thank you all for your feedback!

Where on earth are you finding this info? What programs are these and in what area? I greatly question the quality of the research you've done.
If you think that paying the same $$ for an OOS program (MD or DO) and a Carrib program makes them equivalent going forward, then I think you really need to sit down and re-evaluate everything you know about the application process and medical training in general.

You're better off posting in the DO WAMC forum with your GPA, ECs and last 3-4 MCAT scores to see your chances. As it stands i'm not sure your reasoning would pass a single medical school's question of "why do you want to come to this school".

 

[raney]

You should look into the attrition rate at the Caribbean schools. If I recall correctly, SGU starts with nearly 700 and is quickly whittled down to 400-ish. I have a friend at Ross who is doing his clinicals now, he said the attrition rate for his class was around 30%.
From what I gather, the Caribbean schools will admit you and take your money if you're willing to part with it. However, they knowingly accept more students than they can realistically handle for the four years with the expectation that a certain percentage will fail. It is sink or swim.
Compare this to the US schools which have attrition rates in the low single digits.
The Caribbean may be an "easier" route for acceptance, but it doesn't seem to be an easier route for graduation.
And all this is before the struggles of finding a residency as an IMG.

 

[DocBlin]

The initial Op question was the minimum time off shore? 18 if everything goes "perfectly". But nothing ever does so plan on 24 months as an average. Today much harder to complete all the requirements to leave in 18 months, especially Step I. Back in 2007/08 my son was at SMU for 15.5 months. Than 5 th semester and board prep was in US for 6 months. Placement in 3rd year rotations did not occur til May of 2008. Doubt that could occur today.

 

[bedevilled ben]

If the thought of leaving your family for 24 months is unsettling to you, then you should reconsider. One of the primary reasons people wash out at SGU is because of the stress of being in another country and having to find a completely new support network. Dealing with the stress of medical school is difficult no matter where you are, but being in a new country without access to old familiars can really take its toll on you. If you are under the age of 30 you should absolutely consider taking the extra time, especially if it is only your MCAT score that is holding you back. It is the easiest part of your application to improve, and if you have difficulty taking standardized tests it's important that you figure out why that is now before you start accruing debt and your licensing depends on it. The tests only get more difficult from there.

There is a fair bit of misinformation in this thread, but I agree with the overall message (although not the delivery of it). You should focus on addressing your deficiencies and work to get into a USMD/DO program. If you're hitting a 27 MCAT, a little bit more hard work and study should bring you up into the 29-31 range, which should be sufficient. It's a long journey and 1 year isn't going to make or break your career as a physician. But betting on the Caribbean when you're ill-prepared and the stakes aren't in your favor very well could break your career.

If you have specific questions, the Caribbean sub-forum (where this thread was moved) in General International Discussion is quite helpful.

 

[an aspiring doctor]

Thank you for your help. From here on in I will persist onward with intentions of getting a higher MCAT. If I do not do well the first time on the MCAT I will retake it. If I get my second MCAT score back in the winter I can reapply for the osteopathic cycle. In regards to the MCAT I am efficient on the content but I do feel that I am losing points over questions that pertain to the passages in the physical and biological sections. I have to learn how to gather the information in the allotted time and then utilize it to answer the questions. Do you have any recommendations for such a problem?

In addition for my peers that have hinted that I should seek another profession need to rethink their perspectives. How can you tell a pre med who is starting out and has not taken the MCAT but has managed to collect high grades that they should seek another profession? I would like to give it a shot like you all did before I abandon the ship. I do not see how I should be scrutinized because I inquired information about the big three. The career of a physician revolves around helping those who are in need. Perhaps it is those of you who should be the ones who need to reconsider.

 

[bedevilled ben]

In regards to the MCAT I am efficient on the content but I do feel that I am losing points over questions that pertain to the passages in the physical and biological sections. I have to learn how to gather the information in the allotted time and then utilize it to answer the questions. Do you have any recommendations for such a problem?

Unfortunately it's been nearly 7 years since I've taken the MCAT so I don't have any specific advice for you on that. I will tell you that for Step 1 preparation, one of the things that helped me the most was question banks. Exposure to the questions and concepts will help you drill down to what they're asking about. For general test taking skills, I read the actual question first, and glance through the answers to see what kind of things they're looking for, and then go back and read the question stem or vignette. This took some practice at first, so if you're going to try that, make sure it's on a practice test first. Also, if you haven't taken the actual exam yet, consider pushing back your test date until you are hitting your target score consistently on practice tests. There's no reason to waste the time and money sitting the actual exam, and a single 31 on your application will look better than a 26, 29, and a 31.

In addition for my peers that have hinted that I should seek another profession need to rethink their perspectives. How can you tell a pre med who is starting out and has not taken the MCAT but has managed to collect high grades that they should seek another profession? I would like to give it a shot like you all did before I abandon the ship. I do not see how I should be scrutinized because I inquired information about the big three. The career of a physician revolves around helping those who are in need. Perhaps it is those of you who should be the ones who need to reconsider.

Don't sweat it so much. Letting the flak roll off your back is a skill you'll develop along the way. If you're going to pursue medicine, lots of people, especially the ones you're trying to help, are often going to be ****ty to you in various ways. Focus on what you want out of it. There are a number of pitfalls along the way to med school that you can fall into, but you're doing the right thing by researching your options beforehand.

 

[an aspiring doctor]

Thank you for your generous help!

 

[Skip Intro]

What is the amount of months that you would have to spend at Ross Medical school during your first and second year until you returned home to lets say for example New York to finish your third and fourth year?

I spent 16 months on Dominica. That was enough. I took breaks between each semester and went home.

Then, "5th semester" in Miami, which was 9 weeks.

I had a small study break (seven weeks), took Step 1, then moved to NYC for clinicals in July, where I lived for two years. Rented a reasonable apartment in one of the boroughs (Brooklyn). Took the subway and buses everywhere. It was sometimes an inconvenient pain with long days, but I got it all done in one city.

So:

Dominica - 16 months (including breaks).
Miami - 2.25 months.
NYC - 24 months (including breaks).

As you can see, most of my educational time was spent in the U.S. (All this for a "Caribbean" education.)

Total start-to-finish (i.e. handed my diploma) actual calendar time: 3 years, 8 months.
Then residency: four years (48 months).

Now, I've been in private practice for five years. Time flies. Trust me.

-Skip

 

[an aspiring doctor]

I spent 16 months on Dominica. That was enough. I took breaks between each semester and went home.

Then, "5th semester" in Miami, which was 9 weeks.

I had a small study break (seven weeks), took Step 1, then moved to NYC for clinicals in July, where I lived for two years. Rented a reasonable apartment in one of the boroughs (Brooklyn). Took the subway and buses everywhere. It was sometimes an inconvenient pain with long days, but I got it all done in one city.

So:

Dominica - 16 months (including breaks).
Miami - 2.25 months.
NYC - 24 months (including breaks).

As you can see, most of my educational time was spent in the U.S. (All this for a "Caribbean" education.)

Total start-to-finish (i.e. handed my diploma) actual calendar time: 3 years, 8 months.
Then residency: four years (48 months).

Now, I've been in private practice for five years. Time flies. Trust me.

-Skip

Is finishing the Ross curriculum in a year and four months still plausible today or is it tougher for some and not for others? I decided that I will hold off on the MCAT until next month because I want to become a better applicant for osteopathic medical programs. I believe an osteopathic program would be beneficial for me because I really want to become a physiatrist (PMR physician). However I fear that if I do not get accepted I will have to wait another cycle! Skip since you have experience with the Ross program can you tell me if I have a strong or weak chance at becoming a PMR if I got to Ross?

 

[Skip Intro]

Skip since you have experience with the Ross program can you tell me if I have a strong or weak chance at becoming a PMR if I got to Ross?

Since you asked a specific question, I would recommend that you look at Ross' website and see where graduates have placed over the past 10 Match cycles (which is how much data they have posted).

http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/graduates.cfm

To get you started, in 2014 there were 9 placements into PM&R. In 2013, there were 12.

-Skip

 

[Skip Intro]

Just FYI...

In 2013, there were 732 Ross graduates who ended up in residency.

Here are the top 25 (top ten bolded) states they landed in, ranked from highest to lowest (the bottom 25 had five or less residents per state).

State #Trainees
NY 125
MI 59
NJ 46
OH 45
PA 44
CA 40
IL 40
TX 29
CT 28
FL 27
GA 23
VA 20
LA 19
MA 15
TN 15
AZ 14
NV 14
AR 12
MD 12
WI 12
KY 10
OK 10
NC 9
IN 8
KS 6

You're most likely to find a position in one of those top 10 states, which represented 2/3rds of the graduates (with NY alone representing 17.1% of all graduates in training).

Plan accordingly.

Please NB: this is Ross' data that I collected and tabulated from their website. I interpreted some of their datapoints to make them fit the tabulation, including condensing the PGY-1 and PGY-2 spots where appropriate to account for those matching into PGY-2 already this year. I am not responsible for any of their or any other reporting errors here. If you have any questions or there appear to be mistakes, please contact Ross directly for clarification. This is meant only as a representation and estimate of actual placements for comparative purposes. You rely on this solely at your own discretion.

Cheers,
-Skip

Source: http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/2013residencyappointments.cfm

 

[Skip Intro]

Of the 2013 Ross data, here is a breakdown (0f the 702 positions that were clearly identified) of the top ten specialties that graduates ended-up in:

Specialty-Positions(Percent)
Internal Medicine - 260 (37.0%)
Family Medicine - 159 (22.6%)
Pediatrics - 40 (5.7%)
Psychiatry - 34 (4.8%)
Surgery-Preliminary - 25 (3.6%)
General Surgery - 19 (2.7%)
Obstetrics-Gynecology - 19 (2.7%)
Emergency Medicine - 17 (2.4%)
Anesthesiology - 13 (1.9%)
Medicine-Primary - 12 (1.7%)

Please NB: this is Ross' data that I collected and tabulated from their website. I interpreted some of their datapoints to make them fit the tabulation, including condensing the PGY-1 and PGY-2 spots where appropriate to account for those matching into PGY-2 already this year. I am not responsible for any of their or any other reporting errors here. If you have any questions or there appear to be mistakes, please contact Ross directly for clarification. This is meant only as a representation and estimate of actual placements for comparative purposes. You rely on this solely at your own discretion.

-Skip

Source: http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/2013residencyappointments.cfm

 

[an aspiring doctor]

Those results make me want to post phrase my diagnostic again. Based on those results it seems that osteopathic medicine should be my only concern for this cycle. Skip thank you for your help. I really appreciate it!

 

[Skip Intro]

There are five additional AOA programs for osteopathy grads, too, in PM&R. The plan is to merge the AOA/ACGME, though, and all those spots theoretically will be open to both graduate pathways after that occurs. Right now, there are 1,267 total ACGME spots (including Fellowships) for PM&R. It's not a super-popular choice, but I still believe that anyone here would recommend that you should exhaust all your options at getting into some U.S. program no matter what before choosing the Caribbean route.

http://www.acgme.org/ads/Public/Reports/ReportRun?ReportId=3&CurrentYear=2014&AcademicYearId=2014

-Skip

 

[Skip Intro]

I wanted to add something about "General Surgery" residency...

Graduates can match into "categorical" and "preliminary". A categorical program means that you are "in" the program. That is, you are tracking to do the 5(+) years of residency and to complete the program to become a general surgeon. A preliminary spot is only the PGY-1 spot, meaning that you are not necessarily going to complete a surgical residency. A lot of programs will keep PGY-2 positions open and the prelim year acts, in essence, as an "audition" for these spots. You're often competing with other residents for those spots. This is akin to the show "Survivor" coupled with all the alliances and backstabbing that the show was made famous for. (haha)

But, even the "categorical" spots can be quite cutthroat once training starts. Many residents, for various reason, start a general surgery residency but don't complete it. So, this underscores a bigger point: just because you get a residency position in a certain program does not necessarily mean you are going to complete it.

If people are interested in a surgical specialty that can be obtained via a Caribbean pathway, I think a better training rouote would be to do an OB/Gyn residency and then do a fellowship in gynecologic oncology. I've worked with a lot of gynecologic surgeons who were primarily trained in OB/Gyn and then went on to specialize in pelvic cancers and the like. These are still coveted positions in hospitals, especially with the aging population. One even super-specialized in pelvic floor anomalies and solely did surgeries correcting pelvic floor problems. The hospital definitely catered to this guy.

Just something else to consider if you feel your lot in life is to be in the OR and be involved in the surgical arena. Of course, I wouldn't trade my current job and lifestyle for any of that.

-Skip

 

[Aatma]

Hi


I am confused and am seeking opinions/inputs. I am a Canadian citizen. Currently I am in school of Pharmacy(2nd yr).I am not accepted this year by any of three med schools I applied in Ontario(These schools allow you to apply if you have taken required pre-med courses and have finished 3/4 years of university education. I couldn’t apply other schools in Canada and US as they require bachelor degree). BTW, I have 3.75 GPA and a 34 MCAT score.



I have following options:


1. I can try again with those 3 schools next year
2. Finish my Pharmacy graduation, I can then apply many Canadian and US schools (But that’s two years from now)
3. Take Caribbean route this year and save two years and debt made for studying next two years of Pharmacy



But if I choose third option,


1. How about US clinical rotation if in Caribbean school? I believe Caribbean schools arrange it for you. Is it true?
2. Is it not uphill battle when it comes to be accepted for residency in US/Canada?
3. I come across some really scary stories of IMGs not getting residency. This(http://thescurlockscene.blogspot.ca/2014/03/the-match-soap-reality-of-being-img.html) is the story of a St. George graduate
4. What happens with those IMGs who are not getting any residency? I learn less than 50% of IMGs don’t get residency. They have to wait a year and try again? What will happen now as there will be more MDs and Dos from this year onwards as a result of new med schools in US?

5. Is it hard getting US hospitals willing to sponsor H-1 or J-1 visas for IMGs?
6. What Caribbean schools would you recommend? People say these five (st. George,Ross,AUC,AUA and Saba) are top schools.
7. Finally is it worth taking that Caribbean route in the case like mine?

 

[UBC2014]

Apply in the year before your graduation to Canadian and USMD/USDO schools. So that means if you are finishing 2nd year this semester, you can apply to all of the Canadian and US schools 1 year from now (at the end of your 3rd year) for matriculation after you complete your 4th year.


Do not go to the carribean. You have excellent stats and will get into a Canadian or US school. Be patient.

 

[UBC2014]

"What happens with those IMGs who are not getting any residency? I learn less than 50% of IMGs don’t get residency. They have to wait a year and try again?"

They can keep trying, but unlikely if they do not get in after the first or 2nd try. They end up with a huge debt load and working in jobs that they could have done without the medical degree.

Do not do it.

 

[bedevilled ben]

Hi
7. Finally is it worth taking that Caribbean route in the case like mine?

No friggin' way. Finish your degree and then apply wherever you want. The extra knowledge will help you in the future and you will have something to fall back on if medicine isn't your thing.