months post secondary submission - pure silence

[label]

So, I still have over 35 schools (AMCAS FAP allowed me to apply to many programs) which have not responded in any way (no eligibility update, no re-review, just complete silence) and it's been about 3 months since I submitted my secondaries. I submitted an update with fairly good grades, new volunteer experiences, and a promotion at my job (I'm currently the clinical director of a clinic with 3 providers and over 12,000 total patients) in the last week of October, which didn't really do anything. I received my interview invite before I even submitted that update. Since submitting the update, nothing.

Total, I've received 1 interview invite and maybe 7 schools or so have me listed as on hold for possible interview/eligible for interview.

My background:
I come from a poverty-stricken home, was raised in a horribly abusive environment which led to my brother dying of an overdose (pushed me into a life of service), I went through chemotherapy in undergrad and still graduated Summa Cum Laude (though it did take me 5.5 years), was the first in my family to go to college, speak 3 languages fluently (english was not my first), and scored above 510 on the MCAT (no tutor, and I had to teach myself sociology and biochem since I had not taken those courses before the MCAT). I have literally hundreds of shadowing hours under multiple doctors, about the same amount of medical volunteer hours, and even more community service and non-medical volunteer hours (I've been volunteering nearly every weekend for close to a decade).

I applied as a disadvantaged student and received aid through the AMCAS FAP.

While I did graduate summa cum laude, this is only because I had many F's overwritten (my freshman year when I was diagnosed with tumors and went onto chemo, I did not react well and my grades suffered horribly) so my AMCAS GPA is lower like 3.6 ish and science gpa like 3.7. My post bacc science GPA is 3.94 (around 20 hours) but my masters GPA (in a program known for harsh grading) is only like 3.3 (around 34-36 credit hours) since I had to have one final surgery this last year which dragged down my grades and forced me to take a small leave of absence before completing the courses.

This is my last year that my MCAT is valid before I have to retake it, so I'm honestly really nervous about only having 1 interview. I have no idea how I will have time to study and retake the MCAT at this point in my life. I had no idea what life was going to throw my way and I ended up taking the MCAT way before my application was competitive and I was ready to enter medical school.

Is there really nothing I can do at this point besides wait? I've been through so much and since my MCAT is expiring after this cycle I feel like this may be my last chance to enter medical school. I've been working incredibly hard for the past 7 years trying to get my health, life, and grades together so that I may enter medical school. I want to do everything I possibly can to ensure that I get in *somewhere* (I really don't care where I go. I just want to become a doctor).

Letters of interest? Telling schools I have interviews? I'm open to literally any suggestion. If there's nothing I can do besides wait, then there's nothing I can do, but I'd like to at least be certain that I'm not missing something since I have been teaching myself this entire process (and still feel pretty clueless about what I'm supposed to/not supposed to be doing).

I understand this is in the MD section, but I feel it is also worth noting that I did apply to DO schools as well. I have not received any DO invites so far.

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[Goro]

State of residence?
Date when you were complete?
Any IAs?
The weak MS GPA is probably what's killing you. Your biggest mistake is not taking an LOA right away instead of trying to bulldoze your way through.

# hrs shadowing, clinical non-clinical experience? Any research?

What was your school list?

 

[label]

You're right. I shouldn't have tried to bulldoze my way through. I was stubborn and overestimated the difficulty of my surgery recovery. It was stupid and it wrecked my GPA but there's nothing I can do about it now besides move forward. These are the lowest grades I've received in the past 5 years. Nothing I can do to change that.

Virginia state of residence. Interview invite came from a virginia public med school. Vtech rejected me saying I didn't have enough research, EVMS, and UVA no response yet, though I believe EVMS is one of the 7 that has me eligible for interview. I'd have to check.

Date of my last secondary completion was in September, however, almost all were finished before Sept 8th (first full week of sept). The majority were finished before August ended, but with so many schools it took me a while.

IA is institutional action? None.
No criminal record either.

about 300 hours shadowing
2 years neuroscience and biopsych research
work experience: office manager for 5 years
Single international volunteer trip which I was a translator/scribe for doctors.
Volunteer experience: everything from soup kitchens to setting up auctions to fundraising for homeless shelters. Well over 1,000 hours community service.
clinical experience: used to be a med tech, then became the clinical director
received LOR from a vice chair at yale medical, top cardiologists in Virginia, top neurosurgeons, orthopedic surgeons, program directors, etc. I have worked directly under them and they wrote stellar letters for me.

 

[label]

School list was pretty much a shotgun blast to every mid tier and a very few rare upper tier schools that had an MCAT a few points higher. Applied to schools with MCAT scores up to 8 points lower. Range of like 518 to 505.

Including DO it was like 50 total schools. 4 or so rejected me, 7ish or so eligible for interview, 1 interview, no DO responses yet, and then there's that 35-39 schools or so that haven't responded at all.

 

[label]

Yea. I have non-science and science professor LOR's.
My personal statement made a few people cry, so I think it was well written.

I am currently waiting to hear back from:
UVA
EVMS
VCU
Vtech
Drexel
Creighton
Tulane
Tufts
Med college of Wisconsin
Uni central florida
Florida
Florida International
Geisinger Commonwealth
Thomas Jefferson
Cincinnati
Rosalind Franklin
Uni of Illinois @Chicago
Northwestern
UChicago
Loyola
Dartmouth
Baylor
Albany
Rochester
Rush Medical
Western Michigan
quinnipiac
Albert Einstein
Icahn
St. Louis
Wake Forest
NYMC
Boston
Miami Miller
Oakland
Penn State

Did I aim too high? I was using MSARs and applied to schools within my MCAT and GPA range.

And all the DO schools I applied to.

 

[Goro]

The following were donations:

Uni central florida
Florida
Florida International
Geisinger Commonwealth
Cincinnati
Uni of Illinois
Northwestern
UChicago
Dartmouth
Baylor
Albert Einstein
Icahn

OOS state schools favor the home team, and for them you have to be > avg.
So yeah, I think that your grad school GPA decline is the issue here.

 

[label]

UCF has had me eligible for interview for about a month now. We’ll see how that turns up.

I have family ties to UF.

I forgot to mention that I also grew up in Illinois and have only been in Virginia for about 16 months now. So there’s a bit of a grey area as to if I’m a resident of Illinois or Virginia. EVMS says I’m from Illinois and not Virginia. Illinois hasn’t made a decision. VCU and UVA have me as a Virginia resident. On my AMCAS application I put my current address (Virginia).

At least in regards to tuition purposes, that’s the current standing.

Feels fantastic knowing that everything I endured and overcame means absolutely nothing because of one bad academic year... I’m still at the average GPA for the program... just shouldn’t have done the program tbh but I wanted to further my education.

 

[animalluver101]

If you submitted secondaries in September-ish, it might just be that the schools are still reviewing secondaries from people who submitted a little sooner than yourself. I applied late previously and got two interview invitations in January, so it happens, and my application was nowhere near as strong as yours.

 

[EasyEveryoneWouldDoIt]

they might not have gotten to you yet or you are in the queue to be given a II. I got a II today from a school i was complete in mid july, so until you get the R and some schools on your list have already given several R waves i wouldn't lose hope yet

 

[efle]

It is very, very weird for 12+ DO schools to ignore a 3.6/510 applicant. And that's on top of silence from ~30 MD schools.

There's something we can't see causing you problems (personal statement, secondaries, letters).

 

[subdermallight]

Could one of your writers written a bad letter and you not know it? Just a thought but I feel like you would know.

I applied to a majority of the schools you listed with similar/worse stats than you and haven’t heard back either. Except I already have 5 interview invites from OOS schools that weren’t on your list (and not significantly less competitive). So maybe these schools you applied to take a little longer for Sept-and-on applicants. I applied to 40 allo schools in early Oct.

Here’s a tip though. 2 out of my 5 II’s came 1-2 weeks after meeting med school staff at a conference. I can’t say for certain that’s what did it but it would be a big coincidence otherwise. It’s a little late now but scour the internet for symposiums/conferences that med schools would attend for recruitment purposes. Then get on a plane and go meet with them in person, bring a resume with a picture, some might take it. It’s kind of a Hail Mary but it just may get you one more II.

 

[label]

Honestly, there could be a bad letter...

I know for a fact my academic advisor does not like me. She made this very clear to me during our latest meeting (literally told me I’m wasting my time trying to become a doctor and I should go do something else with my life), but she’s my academic advisor and her letter was required for many schools.

I’m always polite and thank her for her honesty and never argue with her. Clearly I just don’t follow her advice, or I wouldn’t have applied.

One of my largest fears was that she would black ball me and write a bad letter... I was just praying that if she did decide to that, that the other letters would hold more weight...

she’s never told me why she doesn’t like me she just “doesn’t understand why I want to become a doctor and doesn’t see anything special about me”

The DO applications were submitted later, so I’m not surprised on their silence. It’s still really early considering my late submission to AACOMAS. There was a problem with my transcript delivery so after a month delay they accepted a fax of my transcript instead. That’s why I started off the post with the >35 allopathic schools and just put a note that I also applied to DO.

 

[subdermallight]

Honestly, there could be a bad letter...

I know for a fact my academic advisor does not like me. She made this very clear to me during our latest meeting (literally told me I’m wasting my time trying to become a doctor and I should go do something else with my life), but she’s my academic advisor and her letter was required for many schools.

I’m always polite and thank her for her honesty and never argue with her. Clearly I just don’t follow her advice, or I wouldn’t have applied.

One of my largest fears was that she would black ball me and write a bad letter... I was just praying that if she did decide to that, that the other letters would hold more weight...

she’s never told me why she doesn’t like me she just “doesn’t understand why I want to become a doctor and doesn’t see anything special about me”

The DO applications were submitted later, so I’m not surprised on their silence. It’s still really early considering my late submission to AACOMAS. There was a problem with my transcript delivery so after a month delay they accepted a fax of my transcript instead. That’s why I started off the post with the >35 allopathic schools and just put a note that I also applied to DO.

Woa man. I think you may have found your problem. Why don’t you ask her? “Hey Ms. NegativeNancy, I haven’t heard back from all the schools I applied to and I’m trying to figure out why so that I can improve for next year. I know you expressed disagreement about my decision to be a physician, could it be that you wrote something to that effect in my letter?”

 

[MyOdyssey]

Honestly, there could be a bad letter...

I know for a fact my academic advisor does not like me. She made this very clear to me during our latest meeting (literally told me I’m wasting my time trying to become a doctor and I should go do something else with my life), but she’s my academic advisor and her letter was required for many schools.

I’m always polite and thank her for her honesty and never argue with her. Clearly I just don’t follow her advice, or I wouldn’t have applied.

One of my largest fears was that she would black ball me and write a bad letter... I was just praying that if she did decide to that, that the other letters would hold more weight...

she’s never told me why she doesn’t like me she just “doesn’t understand why I want to become a doctor and doesn’t see anything special about me”

The DO applications were submitted later, so I’m not surprised on their silence. It’s still really early considering my late submission to AACOMAS. There was a problem with my transcript delivery so after a month delay they accepted a fax of my transcript instead. That’s why I started off the post with the >35 allopathic schools and just put a note that I also applied to DO.

There are Med schools that REQUIRE a letter from your academic advisor?!? I’ve barely spoken to mine.

Perhaps you mean a letter from the premed committee advisor?

 

[Goro]

There are Med schools that REQUIRE a letter from your academic advisor?!? I’ve barely spoken to mine.

Perhaps you mean a letter from the premed committee advisor?

This. OP, you can always submit LORs from individual writers. Some schools prefer committee LORs, but for them, you just need to explain why you didn't go that route. Stating that you have a toxic relationship with your advisor, or that she's unreliable, might be a fair rationale.

 

[label]

There are Med schools that REQUIRE a letter from your academic advisor?!? I’ve barely spoken to mine.

Perhaps you mean a letter from the premed committee advisor?

Because she’s my graduate academic advisor, every school has hers as a requirement. (From my understanding, which could be wrong)

Please post your actual AMCAS GPA Grid

will do when I get home.

Ok so that 3.94 post bac I mentioned got counted into the graduate gpa on the AMCAS application so my graduate GPA is 3.67 (all science courses). My apologies, I had the wrong understanding of post bacc. These were graduate courses. AACOMAS counted them as post bacc instead of graduate so I thought AMCAS did too. (The program itself says graduate)
undergrad science is 3.54
Non science is 3.0

Freshman year gpa 1.7 science 1.56 cumulative (I wasn’t lying about how bad things got on chemo)
Sophomore 3.7 science 3.2 non science
Junior 3.91 science 4.0 non science
Senior 3.92 (all science)
The credit hours are heavily weighed towards junior and senior.

 

[label]

This could definitely be part of the problem. How many schools did you send her letter to? I'm not aware of any schools that require an academic advisor's letter. I applied to some of the schools on your list, so I know for a fact that they don't require it.

Also, how many LORs did you send each school? Based on your previous posts you seem to have like 10+ letters. If you sent all of your letters to all your schools, that could present another issue. Some schools have limits to how many they'll take.

@Goro is it possible for OP to request that the schools remove the bad letter from his application?

From what I was told, it’s because she’s my graduate school advisor that it’s required... so all of the schools.
Also, without that letter the grading scale of the program won’t have an explanation.

None require it from my undergrad advisor. They just say explain if you aren’t sending a premed committee letter.

 

[label]

I didn't realize it was a grad advisor. Still, I skimmed through the LOR requirements for a few of the schools you applied to, and not all of them require a grad advisor letter. If you have to reapply next year, don't include this letter for schools that don't require it.

With your post bacc counting towards grad GPA now, your undergrad GPA is a lot weaker than you stated in your OP. However you do have very serious extenuating circumstances and a strong rising grade trend. The adcoms here will have a better idea how schools will look at this.

Yea sorry about that, when I was typing my original post I was looking at the grade breakdown in my aacomas application. I didn’t mean to mislead anyone. I thought it’d translate over, but I was wrong. Clearly there’s a difference in the categories...

I'm trying to upload an image... it says cumulative science undergrad 3.69... Wow, so I've been WAY off. I've been basing this all on the assumption they were the same. Wow. I don't know why I assumed that.
Also, just to clarify further, I was able to graduate summa cum laude since the university has a grade replacement/forgiveness/retake policy... which AMCAS does not have... and because I graduated in 5.5 years the alignment of hours is weird on the amcas transcript... anyway, my school transcript is straight A's with 1 A- every semester since switching to premed which was right after I got healthy.


ok lol I don't even want to know my chances now. Really had no idea the differences were that large. I'm going to go stick my head in the sand for the next few months and be thankful I have at least 1 interview.

 

[Goro]

@Goro is it possible for OP to request that the schools remove the bad letter from his application?

Sorry, but I can't help myself.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Sorry, but I can't help myself.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Maybe while he's at it, OP could call and ask that those bad Freshman grades be removed from his transcript as well.

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile

 

[efle]

I think it's the letter. No way that his academics would turn off a dozen DO programs.

 

[Throwaway5129]

OP, you might have to reapply next cycle, if you do, DON'T include the advisors letter. Also, call all the schools that rejected you and ask them for feedback after the cycle (i.e during the summer). One of them might be honest enough to tell you to get different letters. Next cycle just get two science and 1 non science letters from people you know like you.

 

[Goro]

Okay, sorry if you thought my question was dumb. An extra LOR is optional information unlike grades or test scores, so there would be no negative consequences for not including it initially. I don't see why it's unreasonable for the applicant to request it be removed.

Sorry, because this simply doesn't happen. One does not get to remove parts of an app, even if they're optional.
Treat it as a teaching moment.