moonlighting malpractice costs

[Scorcher31]

I have a few opportunities out there to start moonlighting on weekends at least. One place is 85/ hour but they work you like a dog I would have to deal with medical issues as well as they are freestanding. I also heard everyone is an automatic admission but don't know how they swing that.

Some of the attending at an outpt site cover the hospital consults and inpt units on the weekend and they are looking for a resident to split it with because it's just too much. They are encouraging me to get licensed and jump in because it takes months but they have no idea how much the hospital will end up paying residents although they assure me I will easily pay licensing and malpractice costs.

I'm only planning on working ~ 1 weekend a month so I'm debating if this really is cost efficient at all. I'm assuming licensing and DEA will be an easy 1000. I will have to swing my own malpractice and I'm assuming I should just pay for occurrence so I don't need to pay for tail afterwards. I'm assuming that will be a few thousand at least but no one I know moonlights so i have nothing for comparison. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated especially with advice for malpractice costs, type, etc for a resident working only limited shifts. Trying to figure out if this even makes financial sense

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[whopper]

Might not be, especially if it's stressful. Malpractice for a resident can be obtained for cheap relatively speaking because they usually give residents a big discount and because the longer you've practiced, it tends to go up, add in that it's tax deductible.

Wow, it's been awhile since I paid malpractice while still in training, anyone here want to mention what the rates were because it's fuzzy for me. I'm remembering it being significantly less than $5000.

 

[Scorcher31]

Well I think most of these jobs would be high stress unless I could just find an inpt unit. Even if I make 24k a year it would be 16k after taxes and if occurrence malpractice and license was 5k id be down to like 11k which probably wouldn't be worth the stress. It almost seems like you have to go all out and work like 3 weekends a month or not bother as a resident. As an attending it’s a lot easier as Id already be insured and have a license. A lot of places don’t seem to want to talk money until you're licensed, which is unfortunate because I don’t want to get a license and it not be worth it. I'm also probably changing states after residency for home prices and property taxes which is also holding me back somewhat although I do have a good amount of debt and am trying to save up for a house.

 

[dmantooth]

I got a policy for $1000 from PRMS for the year

 

[vistaril]

Well I think most of these jobs would be high stress unless I could just find an inpt unit. Even if I make 24k a year it would be 16k after taxes and if occurrence malpractice and license was 5k id be down to like 11k which probably wouldn't be worth the stress. It almost seems like you have to go all out and work like 3 weekends a month or not bother as a resident. As an attending it’s a lot easier as Id already be insured and have a license. A lot of places don’t seem to want to talk money until you're licensed, which is unfortunate because I don’t want to get a license and it not be worth it. I'm also probably changing states after residency for home prices and property taxes which is also holding me back somewhat although I do have a good amount of debt and am trying to save up for a house.

ummm....I'll make about 75k or so at least moonlighting alone this year and it's not super stressful. I know more than one medicine resident who are well into the six figures

You have a number of misconceptions about moonlighting as a psych resident in your post....

first, high stress/high workload jobs should be paying more than 85/hr. More like 130 if it's busy and stressful. I have one job that averages a little less than that, but it involves basically nothing.

second, your medmal is not going to be anything close to 5k. I pay around 1100. you get a discount(substantial) as a resident.

third, you need to get an llc if you do it....you wont pay 25% of your salary to taxes on that little amount if you get an llc and know how to do it right.

It almost seems like you dont *want* to moonlight so you're trying to convince yourself it's not worth it. That's fine that you don't want to moonlight, but you should be aware the money is there and it's nice if you do.

 

[toothless rufus]

ummm....I'll make about 75k or so at least moonlighting alone this year and it's not super stressful. I know more than one medicine resident who are well into the six figures

You have a number of misconceptions about moonlighting as a psych resident in your post....

first, high stress/high workload jobs should be paying more than 85/hr. More like 130 if it's busy and stressful. I have one job that averages a little less than that, but it involves basically nothing.

second, your medmal is not going to be anything close to 5k. I pay around 1100. you get a discount(substantial) as a resident.

third, you need to get an llc if you do it....you wont pay 25% of your salary to taxes on that little amount if you get an llc and know how to do it right.

It almost seems like you dont *want* to moonlight so you're trying to convince yourself it's not worth it. That's fine that you don't want to moonlight, but you should be aware the money is there and it's nice if you do.

How do you do the llc "right?" How do you get one? Is it expensive? Am considering moonighting and have no clue about any of the peripheral stuff. thanks.

 

[vistaril]

How do you do the llc "right?" How do you get one? Is it expensive? Am considering moonighting and have no clue about any of the peripheral stuff. thanks.

no...you can get it set up for a few hundred bucks.

By "right", I mean knowing how to use..all the stuff you can deduct and how and at what rate. My fiance's brother is a CPA, and he did mine for me....he also projects my actual tax rate(everything...state, federal, fica) to be about 14% of the money I actually make through this moonlighting(which isnt taxed at all because Im a contract status moonlighting)

 

[toothless rufus]

no...you can get it set up for a few hundred bucks.

By "right", I mean knowing how to use..all the stuff you can deduct and how and at what rate. My fiance's brother is a CPA, and he did mine for me....he also projects my actual tax rate(everything...state, federal, fica) to be about 14% of the money I actually make through this moonlighting(which isnt taxed at all because Im a contract status moonlighting)

Cool. Thanks!

 

[Scorcher31]

ummm....I'll make about 75k or so at least moonlighting alone this year and it's not super stressful. I know more than one medicine resident who are well into the six figures

You have a number of misconceptions about moonlighting as a psych resident in your post....

first, high stress/high workload jobs should be paying more than 85/hr. More like 130 if it's busy and stressful. I have one job that averages a little less than that, but it involves basically nothing.

second, your medmal is not going to be anything close to 5k. I pay around 1100. you get a discount(substantial) as a resident.

third, you need to get an llc if you do it....you wont pay 25% of your salary to taxes on that little amount if you get an llc and know how to do it right.

It almost seems like you dont *want* to moonlight so you're trying to convince yourself it's not worth it. That's fine that you don't want to moonlight, but you should be aware the money is there and it's nice if you do.

Well you have certainly peaked my interest no doubt about that. Im sure a part of me dosen't want to moonlight, but I can certainly use the extra cash. I'm a pros and cons kind of guy and relatively cheap with my spending so I have to prove to my self something makes financial sense before I take the risk. I know nothing about an llc but I will certainly have to look into that. Not sure where you are finding those easy 85/h jobs although Im fairly sure pay is lower for psychiatrists in the north east. You made a ton of money but you are probably working more than one weekend a month which is all I want to do unless I can find some really easy jobs.

I feel one of the main things holding me back is malpractice.Is this 1k malpractice insurance you are all finding occurence or claims made? If that is occurence im sold. I heard occurence is significantly more expensive than claims made but i dont want to have to buy claims made for 2 years and then need to dish out 3x as much for tail over the next couple years because that again cuts into my profits.

 

[Scorcher31]

So even without an LLC moonlighting is not taxable at all if you are on contract status (whatever that is)? I thought you had to reinvest into the business or if you pay out to yourself in divedends there is some sort of tax.

 

[TexasPhysician]

ummm....I'll make about 75k or so at least moonlighting alone this year and it's not super stressful. I know more than one medicine resident who are well into the six figures

You have a number of misconceptions about moonlighting as a psych resident in your post....

first, high stress/high workload jobs should be paying more than 85/hr. More like 130 if it's busy and stressful. I have one job that averages a little less than that, but it involves basically nothing.

second, your medmal is not going to be anything close to 5k. I pay around 1100. you get a discount(substantial) as a resident.

third, you need to get an llc if you do it....you wont pay 25% of your salary to taxes on that little amount if you get an llc and know how to do it right.

It almost seems like you dont *want* to moonlight so you're trying to convince yourself it's not worth it. That's fine that you don't want to moonlight, but you should be aware the money is there and it's nice if you do.

I do things a little different, but I agree that it's worth it. I don't use an LLC and I pay less than 14% in taxes. There are many tax deductions out there. You just need to implement them and learn the tax loopholes.

Malpractice costs are based on location. I pay $1600/year for non-occurrence. Occurrence insurance is a waste of money. If you plan on quitting the moonlighting gig before full-time practice and thus needing tail coverage, you shouldn't start to begin with. My company provides free tail coverage upon retirement after so many years.

Licensing fees plus DEA/DPS cost me almost $3000 to get started.

Still it is worth it if you learn the tax deductions. I haven't run all the numbers, but I'm hoping to pay almost no taxes on my significant pay from moonlighting.

 

[TexasPhysician]

So even without an LLC moonlighting is not taxable at all if you are on contract status (whatever that is)? I thought you had to reinvest into the business or if you pay out to yourself in divedends there is some sort of tax.

A contractor does not get taxes removed from the paycheck up front. You receive a 1099 tax form, and you must file ALL of your own taxes. You actually pay more taxes due to contractor status. To get around this, there are many tax strategies. Some use an LLC. I find that an LLC doesn't work as well in my situation for moonlighting taxes as other strategies. To pay little taxes, either get a great tax advisor or start learning the tax code.

I prefer to learn it myself, but I've had a tax attorney teach me.

 

[Scorcher31]

I do things a little different, but I agree that it's worth it. I don't use an LLC and I pay less than 14% in taxes. There are many tax deductions out there. You just need to implement them and learn the tax loopholes.

Malpractice costs are based on location. I pay $1600/year for non-occurrence. Occurrence insurance is a waste of money. If you plan on quitting the moonlighting gig before full-time practice and thus needing tail coverage, you shouldn't start to begin with. My company provides free tail coverage upon retirement after so many years.

Licensing fees plus DEA/DPS cost me almost $3000 to get started.

Still it is worth it if you learn the tax deductions. I haven't run all the numbers, but I'm hoping to pay almost no taxes on my significant pay from moonlighting.

I know malpractice will differ based on state. Wait so if you get non occurence for your moonligihting, get a full time job and then stop your moonlighting and get a new non occurence policy throguh your new full time job it will cover everything from your previous moonlighting? I know when you contract with an employer you ask for tail coverage if you are there for X amount of time that covers after you leave.

I was under the impression that if you change insurance companies to your new job's company they will not cover you for any previous moonlighting lawsuits unless they offered nose coverage or you bought tail for it on your own.

 

[whopper]

first, high stress/high workload jobs should be paying more than 85/hr. More like 130 if it's busy and stressful. I have one job that averages a little less than that, but it involves basically nothing.

second, your medmal is not going to be anything close to 5k. I pay around 1100. you get a discount(substantial) as a resident.

Forgot how much I paid. I did vaguely recall it being not much more than $1000 but the memory was vague.

As for moonlighing gigs, a lot of it is going to vary in the locality.

The LLC suggestion is a good one. It offers so many protections.

 

[Scorcher31]

All i have is loan interest and standard deduction right now. I don't vacation so I cant make it job hunting/educational. I use my car outside work and don't drive enough mileage to itemize mileage. You are only supposed to deduct cell phones if they are just for work. My wife makes a lot more than I do (non doctor) and it raises our bracket. No house or children to deduct and all our money goes into Roth accounts so no deduction there. What the heck are you guys deducting to get in those low tax brackets? Ill have to find a good tax attorney or cpa.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Forgot how much I paid. I did vaguely recall it being not much more than $1000 but the memory was vague.

As for moonlighing gigs, a lot of it is going to vary in the locality.

The LLC suggestion is a good one. It offers so many protections.

For a strictly moonlighting gig in residency, what protection does a LLC provide? You have malpractice insurance and not enough money to be worth a personal lawsuit. It would take me ten minutes to move my money to where there is nothing to get.

 

[dl2dp2]

Not sure where you are finding those easy 85/h jobs although Im fairly sure pay is lower for psychiatrists in the north east.

I don't think $85+/hour is uncommon even in the Northeast, even for residents. There are two places to moonlight at my hospital (large academic hospital in a major city). The ER pays $65 per hour and the inpatient unit pays $90 for overnight and $100 for weekend day. No malpractice as it's internal. The calls include floor consults and new admits at a community MICA unit, but it's fairly non-stressful and with attending backup. I would encourage you to scope out these gigs--nursing homes/outpatient facilities pay very similar rates and usually they include malpractice. If you are fully board certified, I would expect ER gigs to pay at $125+ per hour.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I know malpractice will differ based on state. Wait so if you get non occurence for your moonligihting, get a full time job and then stop your moonlighting and get a new non occurence policy throguh your new full time job it will cover everything from your previous moonlighting? I know when you contract with an employer you ask for tail coverage if you are there for X amount of time that covers after you leave.

I was under the impression that if you change insurance companies to your new job's company they will not cover you for any previous moonlighting lawsuits unless they offered nose coverage or you bought tail for it on your own.

I'm going to keep my coverage. You can ask companies to pay your current insurance. Some company insurance policies won't include extra gigs, so you'd likely want to keep it anyways.

The occurrence policies I saw were $6000+/year.

 

[TexasPhysician]

All i have is loan interest and standard deduction right now. I don't vacation so I cant make it job hunting/educational. I use my car outside work and don't drive enough mileage to itemize mileage. You are only supposed to deduct cell phones if they are just for work. My wife makes a lot more than I do (non doctor) and it raises our bracket. No house or children to deduct and all our money goes into Roth accounts so no deduction there. What the heck are you guys deducting to get in those low tax brackets? Ill have to find a good tax attorney or cpa.

Home office deductions - don't need to own to use.
Solo 401k.
Business expenses, dinners, vacations, charitable gifts, mileage, car, travel, some food, furniture, computers, a/c bill.

The list goes on.

 

[Scorcher31]

In our state noone seems to take boards until after they graduate residency so i would only be licensed. Apparently we can't moonlight at our own hospital either so I would need a policy or to be covered by wherever i moonlight at. Did not know you can get a company to pay for your malpractice company instead of using theres that would completely save needing tail which would be huge. I might just start cold calling places i roated when i was a med student. Is it reasonable to call a bunch of places and just say Im resident looking for moonlighting jobs in the process of getting licensed and interested in info about availabiltiy, pay and what the job entails but wont be able to start for a few months.

Ideally Id like to find a place where I maintain everyone over the weekend, deal with problems that come up, and maybe do dictations or what not on new patients, but dont have to deal with sending anyone home or crisis work. I guess Im looking for more of a longer term state hospital or an inpt unit somewhere althought i wouldnt rule anything out.

 

[whopper]

Per my accountant, if you use the home as an office, aside from rent, pretty much any home maintenance is also deductible-including the phone bill, utilities, guy mowing the lawn....

 

[Scorcher31]

Per my accountant, if you use the home as an office, aside from rent, pretty much any home maintenance is also deductible-including the phone bill, utilities, guy mowing the lawn....

I thought for the home office deduction you need to use the area exclusively for business (which is easy as you just make 1 room an office) but also you need to have no other primary office (pretty much impossible) or see patients/clients in your office at a regular basis (pretty hard to unless you have an outpt office in your house or are bringing in clients/lawyers for testimony somehow). How do you guys get arround this? I guess you can ask the hospital specifically not to give you an office and to give you remote access. I wonder if that would work?

 

[TexasPhysician]

I thought for the home office deduction you need to use the area exclusively for business (which is easy as you just make 1 room an office) but also you need to have no other primary office (pretty much impossible) or see patients/clients in your office at a regular basis (pretty hard to unless you have an outpt office in your house or are bringing in clients/lawyers for testimony somehow). How do you guys get arround this? I guess you can ask the hospital specifically not to give you an office and to give you remote access. I wonder if that would work?

Your home office is for your own business - consult work. Your university office is for residency work only. You can not be expected to do ALL activities for a separate job in a residency office.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Your argument is you have no other office for your new business.

 

[freaker]

And that's where my question lies with regards to the home office deduction: my moonlighting site has an office where I compose my notes and see my patients. I think it's very difficult to argue that my primary office location is in my home. Granted, I'm a contract worker using the site's office. It just doesn't seem to be following the letter or intent of the law.

As for phone, you can deduct the percentage of calls you make that are work-related. I wouldn't deduct the other member expenses in a family plan,. You can also deduct internet expenses. I deduct mileage expenses to and from my residency to my moonlighting site. Need a new laptop? It's deductible. Medical textbooks? Tax deductible. Professional memberships? Deductible.

I paid $700 per year for med mal for my first year moonlighting, and that amount progressively increased for the first four to five years until it plateaus. It sounds like a lot up front, but you make up for it pretty quick, especially at $110 per hour.

EDIT:

Home office deduction definitely doesn't hold water for physicians unless you're seeing patients in your home: If an anesthesiologist with no office in any of the three hospitals where he conducts businesses can't qualify, I find it even harder to believe a psychiatrist could.

Specialist physicians who do not maintain an office for their patients, such as anesthesiologists, have special problems. According to the Supreme Court in Soliman, actual treatment of patients is the most significant event in the professional activities. The home office activities are less important to the business of the specialist physician than the tasks performed in a medical facility.

If the nature of the profession requires the taxpayer to meet or confer with clients or patients, the place where that contact occurs is often an important indicator of the principal place of business. Unless members of the medical profession can show that the home office is the primary place where services are delivered to clients, it is unlikely that the home office deduction will be allowed.

http://www.westga.edu/~bquest/1996/chaffin.html

Also:

Generally, the home office is not the principal place of business of a physician. This, of course, was the result in the Soliman case itself. Soliman v. Commissioner, 94 T.C. 20 (1990), aff'd, 935 F.2d 52 (4th Cir. 1991), rev'd, 113 U.S. 701 (1993). In Soliman, the taxpayer was a self-employed anesthesiologist who practiced at several hospitals and used his home office, located in a spare bedroom, exclusively to manage his practice. The taxpayer was denied the home office deduction because the home office was not his principal place of business, since he actually practiced anesthesiology in the various hospitals.

Other cases applying the Soliman test have reached the same result. For example, in Chong v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo 1996-232, the Tax Court considered another case involving home office deductions claimed by an anesthesiologist. As in Soliman, the taxpayer was a self- employed anesthesiologist who administered anesthesia to patients at a local hospital. The hospital did not provide him with a private office, although it did provide an area where the taxpayer occasionally could do some of his paperwork. All of the taxpayer's fees were paid directly to him by patients; the taxpayer received no compensation directly from the hospital. For billing, the taxpayer maintained a home office and kept his records at that location. The taxpayer employed an office manager who worked 20 hours per week at the doctor's home office, and the taxpayer's wife also worked there.

The taxpayer claimed home office deductions, including depreciation, mortgage interest, property taxes, utilities, insurance, and repairs and maintenance expenses. The IRS denied the deductions, and the Tax Court agreed. According to the Tax Court, Soliman dictated that deductions would only be permitted if the home office were the taxpayer's principal place of business, which the court defined as the location where the most important or significant events pertaining to the business took place. As in Soliman, the Tax Court in Chong found that the most important or significant events took place at the hospital where patients were treated.

The taxpayer argued that the principal place of business determination had to be made on an activity-by-activity basis, rather than on the basis of an integrated business. The taxpayer maintained that the most significant event in the billing process took place in his home office. Therefore, he said, the home office was the principal place of his billing business. The Tax Court rejected this argument, treating the medical practice as a single trade or business, not one that could be bifurcated. Although the Chong case appears virtually identical to Soliman, there is a key area where the facts in Chong differed from the facts in Soliman. Dr. Soliman performed services at three different hospitals, so it could be more strongly argued (compared with Chong) that Soliman's principal place of business was his home office rather than at one of the hospitals. Dr. Chong, on the other hand, worked at only one hospital.

Home office deduction 2

 

[TexasPhysician]

Freaker - does your contract stipulate unlimited use of an office? Where do you schedule your gigs, analyse new contracts, schedule next month's schedule, etc? If your contract doesn't stipulate an office, none exists IMO. If it does, you should have asked them to remove that from contract.

 

[Scorcher31]

And that's where my question lies with regards to the home office deduction: my moonlighting site has an office where I compose my notes and see my patients. I think it's very difficult to argue that my primary office location is in my home. Granted, I'm a contract worker using the site's office. It just doesn't seem to be following the letter or intent of the law.

As for phone, you can deduct the percentage of calls you make that are work-related. I wouldn't deduct the other member expenses in a family plan,. You can also deduct internet expenses. I deduct mileage expenses to and from my residency to my moonlighting site. Need a new laptop? It's deductible. Medical textbooks? Tax deductible. Professional memberships? Deductible.

I paid $700 per year for my first year moonlighting, and that amount progressively increased for the first four to five years until it plateaus. It sounds like a lot up front, but you make up for it pretty quick, especially at $110 per hour.

I think its harder for me cause we file jointly to get the larger student debt deduction. So for it to be worth it i have to have over 12k in itemized deductions or i just take the standard. For phone deductions if you have a joint cell phone plan both with data and texting could you just deduct your whole half even if you mainly use it personally but on occasion use it for work. Can you just deduct your whole internet bill just because you occasionally use it as a tool to find out information to help your patients?

Unfortunately this is the stuff not taught in residency 🙂

 

[TexasPhysician]

I think its harder for me cause we file jointly to get the larger student debt deduction. So for it to be worth it i have to have over 12k in itemized deductions or i just take the standard. For phone deductions if you have a joint cell phone plan both with data and texting could you just deduct your whole half even if you mainly use it personally but on occasion use it for work. Can you just deduct your whole internet bill just because you occasionally use it as a tool to find out information to help your patients?

Unfortunately this is the stuff not taught in residency 🙂

Business expenses are not "itemized deductions". It's a whole different area of tax code. You have a lot to learn.

 

[TexasPhysician]

A good book to learn some basics is discussed here: http://richaschocolate.com/2011/05/26/why-start-a-home-business.aspx

 

[freaker]

Freaker - does your contract stipulate unlimited use of an office? Where do you schedule your gigs, analyse new contracts, schedule next month's schedule, etc? If your contract doesn't stipulate an office, none exists IMO. If it does, you should have asked them to remove that from contract.

I truthfully don't know what my contract says about an office. I share one with several other physicians. That said, when you read about the cases above, where a physician worked at three other distant locations, had no office at any of them, and hired an office manager and his wife to manage billign, and that didn't meet the standard because the billing/scheduling in his office was not his principal point of business, I don't see how my position would qualify.

Perhaps I'm too reticent, but I'm okay with playing it somewhat conservatively for now. I have enough deductions at this point that I don't pay too much in taxes for now (mortgage, kids, medical expenses for those kids > 7.5% of income, miles to doctor's office, etc....).

One thing that stands out when I eventually hit attending status that is less relevant as a resident with a 1099 gig is the ability to form a solo 401k as an attending and match up to 20% of my income therein seems like a great way to save, defer taxation, and expand tax advantaged space.

 

[vistaril]

Well you have certainly peaked my interest no doubt about that. Im sure a part of me dosen't want to moonlight, but I can certainly use the extra cash. I'm a pros and cons kind of guy and relatively cheap with my spending so I have to prove to my self something makes financial sense before I take the risk. I know nothing about an llc but I will certainly have to look into that. Not sure where you are finding those easy 85/h jobs although Im fairly sure pay is lower for psychiatrists in the north east. You made a ton of money but you are probably working more than one weekend a month which is all I want to do unless I can find some really easy jobs.

I feel one of the main things holding me back is malpractice.Is this 1k malpractice insurance you are all finding occurence or claims made? If that is occurence im sold. I heard occurence is significantly more expensive than claims made but i dont want to have to buy claims made for 2 years and then need to dish out 3x as much for tail over the next couple years because that again cuts into my profits.

join the APA(if you arent already a member) and you are eligible for their moonlighting discounts as well as their moonlighting residents rate....

regarding the structure of the tail and all, there are different ways you can do it.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I truthfully don't know what my contract says about an office. I share one with several other physicians. That said, when you read about the cases above, where a physician worked at three other distant locations, had no office at any of them, and hired an office manager and his wife to manage billign, and that didn't meet the standard because the billing/scheduling in his office was not his principal point of business, I don't see how my position would qualify.

Perhaps I'm too reticent, but I'm okay with playing it somewhat conservatively for now. I have enough deductions at this point that I don't pay too much in taxes for now (mortgage, kids, medical expenses for those kids > 7.5% of income, miles to doctor's office, etc....).

One thing that stands out when I eventually hit attending status that is less relevant as a resident with a 1099 gig is the ability to form a solo 401k as an attending and match up to 20% of my income therein seems like a great way to save, defer taxation, and expand tax advantaged space.

If you want to be ultra-conservative, go for it.

I use a Solo 401k in residency. No reason to wait until I graduate. 🙂

The tax code is built to be "worked". If money is at all an issue, you need to learn the tax "game".

 

[Scorcher31]

Business expenses are not "itemized deductions". It's a whole different area of tax code. You have a lot to learn.

Thanks for the book recc ill check it out. I tried to deduct miles driven at that standard rate to other sites than my main site but was told that that has to be itemized and would have to be more than the standard deduction. Is that not correct?

 

[TexasPhysician]

Thanks for the book recc ill check it out. I tried to deduct miles driven at that standard rate to other sites than my main site but was told that that has to be itemized and would have to be more than the standard deduction. Is that not correct?

No.

 

[digitlnoize]

I truthfully don't know what my contract says about an office. I share one with several other physicians. That said, when you read about the cases above, where a physician worked at three other distant locations, had no office at any of them, and hired an office manager and his wife to manage billign, and that didn't meet the standard because the billing/scheduling in his office was not his principal point of business, I don't see how my position would qualify.

What about using a home office as a business expense for a second (non-physician) business. For example, if I were to start a non-profit organization and run its operations out of my home office (obviously, it wouldn't be a super active organization, or require a large time commitment on my part), this would qualify for a home office deduction, correct?

 

[TexasPhysician]

What about using a home office as a business expense for a second (non-physician) business. For example, if I were to start a non-profit organization and run its operations out of my home office (obviously, it wouldn't be a super active organization, or require a large time commitment on my part), this would qualify for a home office deduction, correct?

A non-physician business is fine.

Non-profits usually involve lots of paperwork, and they have special requirements. I've never set one up, so you would need to research that.

 

[digitlnoize]

A non-physician business is fine.

Non-profits usually involve lots of paperwork, and they have special requirements. I've never set one up, so you would need to research that.

That's what I thought. Yeah, I'm going to talk with a lawyer sometime in the next couple of years. I want to have a very, very small, minimally active non-profit set up after I finish residency...probably some type of organization to raise money/awareness for abused kids or something like that, since I want to do child...something vaguely pertaining to my work. Or, perhaps to raise money for music in schools. We'll see...

 

[vistaril]

I truthfully don't know what my contract says about an office. I share one with several other physicians. That said, when you read about the cases above, where a physician worked at three other distant locations, had no office at any of them, and hired an office manager and his wife to manage billign, and that didn't meet the standard because the billing/scheduling in his office was not his principal point of business, I don't see how my position would qualify.

Perhaps I'm too reticent, but I'm okay with playing it somewhat conservatively for now.

why? you're just giving money away......

Only a very small % of people who are *very* agressive even get audited, and if you do, and dont win/prove your case, the consequences are not that bad......unless you were simply knowingly flagrantly breaking the law, the "penalty" is usually just paying the money you would have paid anyways, sometimes with a small fee.

So iow, the potential gain is large, and there really is no downside.