Moonlighting rates?

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nancysinatra

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  1. Attending Physician
I'm curious what people's experiences are with attending moonlighting rates. (Residents can get these rates too, but sometimes they have to go outside their residency institutions. That's why I say "attending.")

In this part of the country, it's not hard to get $3500 for a weekend covering an inpatient unit. But not every place pays that, and some places pay more. I'm curious what it is elsewhere?
 
Last job I had moonlighting a weekend was approximately $3,000 each weekend covering max 12 patients. Unit was 24 beds total, the other doc would take phone calls Friday night, I would take phone calls Saturday night. Sunday night one of the regular staff psychiatrists would be on call. Some weekends the census was only 15-16, those were easy days. No consults at this hospital.
 
Last job I had moonlighting a weekend was approximately $3,000 each weekend covering max 12 patients. Unit was 24 beds total, the other doc would take phone calls Friday night, I would take phone calls Saturday night. Sunday night one of the regular staff psychiatrists would be on call. Some weekends the census was only 15-16, those were easy days. No consults at this hospital.

Wow. That sounds pretty amazing. $3,500-$4,000 is what it hovers here, but you don't have 12 patients you're seeing.
 

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Not long ago I was getting paid $1500 a weekend to see approximately 25-30 patients and take phone calls from Friday evening to Monday morning, but this was recently increased to $2000. If I work hard enough on Saturday I can get all of the patients seen in one day and have an easy day on Sunday, which is nice. I was told of another job nearby where I could make around $3000 a weekend, seeing a similar number of patients, except that all of the patients would have to be seen both Saturday and Sunday.
 
It must vary regionally. I recall from residency that I could make up to $2000 a weekend rounding at stand-alone private psych hospitals, but the workload was crushing. Even $2000 to me now sounds really low - especially if you're seeing 25-30 patients and taking overnight call. But it might be standard in your region.

I just found a gig that offers $5000 for Fri 5pm through Mon 8am. I don't know what the workload will be yet. And it requires me to travel there and stay in a hotel. I'm hoping to see more jobs like this though.
 
Much of the PES moonlighting I do pays around $190-210/hour. I have an inpatient gig I do that pays about $160/hour (much easier pace than PES). I have an additional inpatient gig I do that pays $210/hour (correctional).
 
I have seen/done/dealt with 2 moonlighting opportunities. Both inpatient, $100/hour for 8 hours and $130/hour for 10 hours.

I know of other residents that did outpatient moonlighting, and they said it paid $150/hour, or $120-130/hour if you wanted them to pay for the malpractice as well.

seeing anywhere from 40-70 patients a day.
What are you doing with these patients?
 
I have two separate gigs that I do for moonlighting, almost every weekend (friday evening to sunday night). I am a resident. I make anywhere between 8,000 and 10,000 each weekend, seeing anywhere from 40-70 patients a day.

Sounds like a sweet set up you've got there - though you seem to be working very hard while you're there.

Is it conceivable to do this after residency as well? i.e. work 4 weekends a month pulling in 8-10k each weekend?
 
I have seen/done/dealt with 2 moonlighting opportunities. Both inpatient, $100/hour for 8 hours and $130/hour for 10 hours.

I know of other residents that did outpatient moonlighting, and they said it paid $150/hour, or $120-130/hour if you wanted them to pay for the malpractice as well.


What are you doing with these patients?
"Seeing" them, obviously. How long do you think it takes for a few photons to bounce off them and strike his retina?
 
Nice response. Instead of responding with a sarcastic remark (that goes to the people who liked the response as well), why don't you just ask? Or, if you think these numbers are unrealistic, why don't you get off SDN and be more efficient/work harder at what you do?

The vast majority of the time, I'm just continuing the previous treatment plan from their primary psychiatrist (remember, this is inpatient). There's no need to spend 30 minutes with each patient trying to re-evaluate the diagnosis. Assess for SHI, side effects to meds, depressive/anxiety/psychotic/manic symptoms, the plan upon discharge, and move on. You will piss off more people if you try to make significant changes to the treatment plan; they will just change it back on Monday, and the patient ends up in the hospital longer. It takes about 5 minutes per patient to do that. For new patients, I probably spend 20-30 minutes on the interview.
Do you really think it's necessary to defend how many patients you see a day? I mean you're the one making 10 g's each weekend. The rest of the world can piss off.
 
Nice response. Instead of responding with a sarcastic remark (that goes to the people who liked the response as well), why don't you just ask? Or, if you think these numbers are unrealistic, why don't you get off SDN and be more efficient/work harder at what you do?

The vast majority of the time, I'm just continuing the previous treatment plan from their primary psychiatrist (remember, this is inpatient). There's no need to spend 30 minutes with each patient trying to re-evaluate the diagnosis. Assess for SHI, side effects to meds, depressive/anxiety/psychotic/manic symptoms, the plan upon discharge, and move on. You will piss off more people if you try to make significant changes to the treatment plan; they will just change it back on Monday, and the patient ends up in the hospital longer. It takes about 5 minutes per patient to do that. For new patients, I probably spend 20-30 minutes on the interview.

I'm not doubting the volume at all, but could you break down how this translates to 8-10k over a weekend? (very curious!)
 
Or, if you think these numbers are unrealistic, why don't you get off SDN and be more efficient/work harder at what you do?
It's not that I find it unrealistic, it's that I don't get how you can see 70 patients in a day and provide them with appropriate care. You have to do more than just evaluate each patient (I know it's not a full evaluation, just a quick check in to make sure there aren't major medication issues you need to address or safety issues, and also some thinking to make sure the plan you are making yourself liable for seems safe enough) -- you also need to review what the treatment plan you are continuing actually is, you need to read a signout or a previous note to see if there's something specific you need to address, and you need to document and bill. On top of this, unit staff will be contacting you with questions and things to address. And you may even decide to eat or use the bathroom at least once in that long day.
 
It's not that I find it unrealistic, it's that I don't get how you can see 70 patients in a day and provide them with appropriate care. You have to do more than just evaluate each patient (I know it's not a full evaluation, just a quick check in to make sure there aren't major medication issues you need to address or safety issues, and also some thinking to make sure the plan you are making yourself liable for seems safe enough) -- you also need to review what the treatment plan you are continuing actually is, you need to read a signout or a previous note to see if there's something specific you need to address, and you need to document and bill. On top of this, unit staff will be contacting you with questions and things to address. And you may even decide to eat or use the bathroom at least once in that long day.

How long that takes might depend on your number of years of experience. I know I've gotten a lot faster since I left residency. When I'm moonlighting, I still find time to provide some brief psychotherapy here and there. So I don't think I'm cutting corners. It's all the other stuff I've gotten faster at.

70 patients is definitely a lot, but in a long day, I think it could be done. I'd only do it if I was getting paid a lot though!
 
How long that takes might depend on your number of years of experience. I know I've gotten a lot faster since I left residency.
Certainly. Though phorensic will have just finished residency 2 days ago if I counted right from his post history.
 
No disrespect to anybody, of course some are going to be more efficient, but there is limit to efficiency. I can understand seeing some stable outpatients being seen every 3 months for 15 minutes, but then you dont know which one is going to 10 minutes and which one is going to take 30 minutes. What care can be delivered in 5 minutes that can't be delivered by not seeing someone?
 
On inpatient, 90% of the information you need can be obtained from reviewing the following A) scheduled meds in past 24 hrs (and whether the pt has been compliant with them), B) PRNs given in past 24 hrs; C) amt of sleep D) all staff/nursing progress notes in past 24 hrs. Writing a note, doing the review of the above, and interviewing the patient all takes less than 10 min, on average. When i said five minutes, that was referring to the pt interview alone (often it doesnt even take longer than 2 min if you have reviewed all of the above).
The hardest part of all that is dealing with delays in tracking patients down, being cornered by patients and staff as you're walking around the unit, the transit time from one patient to the next, and dealing with patients who always are in the shower or suddenly find nature calling as soon as you want to talk to them. this doesn't even account for pages from nurses or the pharmacy you're likely to get. How do you minimize all that drag? I could see just scheduling the patients in ten minute blocks (like a clinic) or talking to them in a group.

Unless this is a state hospital, I also don't know how you get through the weekend with zero patient turnover. For every seventy patients I see, 20+ are recovering from a crisis or emerging from whatever drunkicidal state brought them in the hospital and are denying SI and demanding to get out. How do you justify keeping those people until Monday? Maybe the hospital is just getting tons of denials and eating it.
 
What care can be delivered in 5 minutes that can't be delivered by not seeing someone?

This is a good question, and if you ask me, the answer is that on inpatient units, patients are not seen over the weekend because they need to be seen, but because insurance, or hospital policy, or state law dictates that they be seen.

Inpatients can only have so many medication changes in the course of the usual 5-7 day (if not shorter) admission. The admission criteria being what they are, most are too acutely ill or intoxicated to warrant lengthy psychotherapy sessions. The job of a weekend rounder is not really to provide treatment, but to satisfy administrative requirements, make sure no one dies or elopes, and put out fires.

I've moonlighted at numerous hospitals now, and they all have different policies about weekend discharges. Some prohibit them almost entirely. This can also vary depending on state civil commitment law. But if you're not doing discharges, it frees up time. I've only worked one place that didn't take weekend admissions, and that was a long-term state hospital. Admissions also slow things down.

I can literally get a follow up interview done in 1 minute if a case is straightforward. Most aren't that simple or fast, but my point is, weekend rounding is more about checking things off on a a list than it is about spending time with individual patients.

If people find that objectionable, fine, that's their right, but please don't attack me or make assumptions about my ethics or practice. I am only a messenger, describing what is the reality of weekend rounding in many hospitals. You probably won't learn this in residency either, because program and unit directors have a vested interest in having residents believe that every single minute they spend in a hospital contributes significantly to the well being and health of patients. Actually, a lot of it is just dictated by insurance companies.
 
Agree weekend rounds are not about reinventing the wheel and the majority of the time suck for me is charting, reviewing offsite admission requests to avoid the secret shaft and doing initial evaluations. I'm middle of the road with regard to speed and efficiency but what I find to be most cumbersome without a clear work around is the required documentation even for an uncomplicated med check as Nancy noted to satisfy the insurance/billing requirements. Even if all is negative with both EMRs I use it takes 5+ minutes to review labs, vitals, med compliance, click all the redundant check boxes and add a one line narrative.
 
Sorry for my ignorance as I am just a resident, but do any of you have good websites/contacts to find open moonlighting opportunities?

Thank you!
 
Sorry for my ignorance as I am just a resident, but do any of you have good websites/contacts to find open moonlighting opportunities?

Thank you!
Look up psychiatric facilities, jails, residential treatment centers, etc., within a commute radius you find reasonable and cold call them.
 
the best I have found is production based; $3500 to $5000 a weekend (working like a dog for the high end)
 
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