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moral delimma

Discussion in 'Pre-Pharmacy' started by stlouis79, Jan 7, 2009.

  1. stlouis79

    stlouis79 Accepted Pharmact Student
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    i interviewed today at CCP and the essay question was something to the effect of, "what would you do if you caught a third year pharmacy student cheating on a paper?" Is there any other way to answer that besides saying you would turn him in? Seems like a silly question to ask because youre gonna get the same answers from every student.
     
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  3. stlouis79

    stlouis79 Accepted Pharmact Student
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    Or is this strictly to assess your writing skills?
     
  4. homeskillet

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    I'm pretty sure they want to see if their applicants are able to competently and effectively communicate through writing. Essay questions at interviews for some schools tend not to have anything to do with pharmacy. I've heard from current ucsf students that their essay question was if they liked chocolate or vanilla ice cream more.
     
  5. Frederico Albin

    Frederico Albin Yes thats my bulldog :)
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    Nows thats a tough essay question right there!
     
  6. PrepharmKID

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    Someone else said they had this as a question i think.

    First off, it's not something you would want to just dismiss. Second, you dont want to outright tell on them. One is the far left, the other is the far right. You would just have to figure out where you stand in the middle, unless either of those are just ok with you. Hopefully you presented your view in a well mannered way. Good luck
     
  7. IrishRxMan

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    Me personally, I would unabashedly turn them in. I didn't work my butt off in undergrad to get into pharmacy school and now to get through it for someone to cheapen my degree and the profession I have chosen simply because they didn't study enough to do well, but yet they still want the A. I have no sympathy for someone cheating in a profession where you could easily kill someone if you don't know what you're doing. Once you get to the second and third year, you are into serious therapeutics classes and you need to know what you are doing for a reason. Would you want your grandparents, parents, siblings or your own children getting treated by a doctor that cheated his way through med school and was guessing the entire time? I wouldn't even want people I don't know to be treated by someone like that.
     
  8. diastole

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    We had a guy come in to talk to our pre-pharm club about interviewing skills and I asked him how to answer a question very similar to that. He said that there is a right answer and that is to turn the person in. They want to know that you aren't going to look the other way in your future career as a pharmacist when a fellow pharmacist or pharm tech does something that could potentially harm a patient. If you are willing to let a peer slide when you are a student, there is a good chance that you will let a peer slide as a pharmacist. Plus like IrishRxMan already said, that person is putting future patients at risk by not learning the material.

    I don't think everyone is going to answer the question that way though. I have seen this topic come up here and some people feel quite strongly about not turning the person in.
     
  9. CaptainCurl03

    CaptainCurl03 Ohio State pharm student
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    i had the same questions at midwestern ccp when i interviewed there last year. the main point is to assess your writing/communication skills (to make sure you actually wrote your personal statement rather than someone else writing for you). of course it won't be as good as your personal statement but they know that.

    second point - answer the question correctly! turn them in of course. but! there is a twist. you don't just turn them in outright as if you're out to get them. ideally, (as stated in most honor codes in pharm school) you go to the person you think was cheating and discuss it with them (including telling them that since you are all bound by the honor code you will go to the prof about this). you then go to the prof about it and discuss it with him. the cheater may or may not be given a second chance. you need to specify in your essay that it's not up to you to what happens to the student. if the prof suspects that you are out to get the alledged cheater then he will question the legitimacy of your accusition. ultimately, it is your responsibility as a professional student to report the act, but that is it. the professor along with any other "higher-ups" will decide the cheater's fate and it is important for you, the applicant, to state this in your essay.

    don't take the question lightly even though it's a very basic non-science question but don't stress to much about it. just think clearly and practically. they want a clear and concise answer with good grammar, sentence structure, transitions, etc. it's not a style analysis but it needs to reflect the writing skills in your personal statement.
     
  10. PharMed2016

    PharMed2016 Eternal Scholar
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    Good answer, its what I put in my essay.
     
  11. SHC1984

    SHC1984 Membership Revoked
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    I would turn them in! I hate cheaters...they throw off the curve! :mad:
     
  12. sakigt

    sakigt Junior Member
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    Oh, the irony. :laugh:
     
  13. Kruton

    Kruton Professionally Rad
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    :laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
  14. Maggols

    Maggols Accepted Pharmacy Student
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    How will you be suspected of being "out to get him" if you clearly saw him turn in something that was copied? All you would have to do is show the professor the material that was copied and that would be the end of it. I don't necessarily agree with this whole "2nd point" idea... I think the answer is simple in the fact that the cheater should be turned in, as it is your moral and ethical obligation to do so. It is stating the obvious to mention that "it's not up to me as to what the consequences of this students actions will be".

    The whole point of this essay in my opinion is to 1) Test your common sense abilities in an ethical issue and 2) (more importantly) test your ability to communicate your ideas through words in an organized and coherent manner.
     
  15. PrepharmKID

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    I was at work the other day and this post was on my mind. All of these suggestions are great but there is a huge factor not being looked at. If you tell on a third year pharmacy student, maybe they have great grades, you are going to have to speak to more people than just one professor most likely. Its going to be your word against a third year student that the professors know. They will all remember that you turned someone in for the remainder of your schooling. I'm not saying that to deter someone from reporting a cheater by any means. But you will most likely have to speak to a committee of some sort and explain what you saw. This student will have the opportunity to defend himself. If there is no proof, you'll just look like a fool; the entire staff and other students will know you did this. That is why i think my advice is much more realistic.

    Speak to the student directly. Confront them. If they wont turn themselves in, then you go to the professor. Tell him you know someone cheated but aren't sure what to do. They may very well say thanks, i don't want to know the name, but I'll confront the whole class asking for the person to turn themselves in. At that point, it's up to that professor and whatever board they have governing the students.

    My point is, you don't want to be put in a situation where you are going to have to go head to head against a third year student with no evidence to support your story. Merely telling on another student with no evidence looks badly on you.
     
  16. Maggols

    Maggols Accepted Pharmacy Student
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    Once again, the question assumes that you DO have evidence (copied off the internet, so therefore you know where the copied material is), so there is no chance of looking bad about turning someone in. If you had no evidence, then you really can't do much but what you said and tell the professor you feel that "somebody" is cheating. If you feel self conscious about it, however, then simply slip an anonymous letter under the professor's door with the internet address where the copied material is found and the name of the student that cheated.
     
  17. waryman

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    Jut assuming with no proof available or sen by you will not do anything. But for the question you must assume that he IS cheating and that you know it. The proper response is to say that you will report him as his cheating and lack of knowledge could be dangerous to future patients and decisions. Of course, you would have to turn him in for the answer and saying you will do nothing is just another way of saying that you are a ***** that supports cheating and doesn't care about academic honesty.
     
  18. PrepharmKID

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    I may have missed it, but I'm pretty sure the OP said nothing about having evidence. It just says "what would you do if you caught a third year pharmacy student cheating on a paper?"

    Being that you are not in the same classes, I would assume the only way you would know that person is cheating is if you saw them first hand copying another persons paper. If they were "plagiarizing" off the internet, the majority of schools run a program that can find that stuff for them.

    With that in mind, they are the ones with the evidence. Therefore you would not have that paper available to you to turn in.

    No where did I say I wouldn't report them in some fashion. I just think being discreet about it is the best way to do it.
     

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