More info on DO

Started by Kool Dad
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Kool Dad

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I've been doing research on DOs and MDs and I'd like to know if my current knowledge is correct. The main difference I see is that a DOs have extra training in muscular and skeletal manipulation. I've also read that there is a difference in the philosophy in how to practice medicine. The training a DO undergoes is focused on preventative care and viewing a disease and how it effects the entire body versus just how the disease effects certain parts of the body. Also DOs assess the total health of a patient versus the current problem at hand.

Am I at least in the ballpark here or am I completely off target? Any additional information would also be appreciated on either DOs or MDs. Thanks.
 
The DO training and MD training are the same. DO students also take courses of manipulative medicine, which is similar to physical therapy. Most of us do not use this in practice.

All of the other stuff you mentioned is just promotional-type fluff. There is no difference between MD and DO in training or practice unless the DO uses the OMM. The medicine part is all the same.
 
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So I guess the only reason anyone would want to become a DO vs. an MD is to get some training in manipulative medicine?

Thanks for the responses. Much appreciated.
 
MD schools are more selective in the admissions process. (I have a feeling someone will argue with me). There used to be a stigma against DOs that is slowly fading. As a matter of fact, some MD residencies "save" spots for DOs that graduate from medical school, because they perceive DOs to be more personable to the patients. Do not quote me because I'm not a physician (yet), but a large portion of medicine is humanities and not science. So, being able to relate to patients in a trusting and caring manner goes a long ways in the healing process.

MDs can practice anywhere in the world--DOs cannot practice everywhere yet, most notably in France and Spain.

DO NOT listen to people who say "you are more likely to go into primary care than specialize as a DO." This is an utterly ridiculous statement. I personally know someone that went to a DO school and is now a pediatric neurosurgeon.....it doesn't get more specialized than that, you know?

I hope I helped clear up some misconceptions about DOs and MDs. Also, do not get mad when there is an MD in the Hollywood movies, and not a DO. I've heard this has pissed people off, and I'm not kidding haha. Keep your head up and be informed, and you will be fine!!! Best of luck! 🙂
 
Hsinao said:
So I guess the only reason anyone would want to become a DO vs. an MD is to get some training in manipulative medicine?

Thanks for the responses. Much appreciated.
Click to expand...

uhh...thats not true at all...there was and is a fundamental differance between Allopathic (MD) and Osteopathic (DO).

MD = Disease focused

DO = Patient and Preventative medicine focus

OMM is the only one of the differences
 
Biology101 said:
uhh...thats not true at all...there was and is a fundamental differance between Allopathic (MD) and Osteopathic (DO).

MD = Disease focused

DO = Patient and Preventative medicine focus

OMM is the only one of the differences
Click to expand...

Get out of here with that. It just isn't true. Start medical school before you go off parroting osteopathic talking points that don't exist once your medical school interview is over and your acceptance letter is in the mail.
 
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DrMom said:
The DO training and MD training are the same. DO students also take courses of manipulative medicine, which is similar to physical therapy. Most of us do not use this in practice.

All of the other stuff you mentioned is just promotional-type fluff. There is no difference between MD and DO in training or practice unless the DO uses the OMM. The medicine part is all the same.
Click to expand...


👍👍

I get scrutinized for saying this so I am glad to once again see someone who has a grasp on reality.
 
tj87 said:
md schools are more selective in the admissions process. (i have a feeling someone will argue with me). There used to be a stigma against dos that is slowly fading. As a matter of fact, some md residencies "save" spots for dos that graduate from medical school, because they perceive dos to be more personable to the patients. Do not quote me because i'm not a physician (yet), but a large portion of medicine is humanities and not science. So, being able to relate to patients in a trusting and caring manner goes a long ways in the healing process.

Mds can practice anywhere in the world--dos cannot practice everywhere yet, most notably in france and spain.

Do not listen to people who say "you are more likely to go into primary care than specialize as a do." this is an utterly ridiculous statement. I personally know someone that went to a do school and is now a pediatric neurosurgeon.....it doesn't get more specialized than that, you know?

I hope i helped clear up some misconceptions about dos and mds. Also, do not get mad when there is an md in the hollywood movies, and not a do. I've heard this has pissed people off, and i'm not kidding haha. Keep your head up and be informed, and you will be fine!!! Best of luck! 🙂
Click to expand...
LOL @ the bolded.
 
I've been trying to find a DO to shadow. I know someone a while back had a link that allows you to find local DOs that are willing to let pre-meds shadow. Anyone have an idea of what link I am talking about?
 
OhioG said:
I've been trying to find a DO to shadow. I know someone a while back had a link that allows you to find local DOs that are willing to let pre-meds shadow. Anyone have an idea of what link I am talking about?
Click to expand...

Here are two websites I was given:

http://www.do-online.org/iLearn/login.cfm

http://www.osteopathic.org/directory.cfm

Also, if there are any DO programs near you, contact their alumni office. I was given this advice and turns out the DO program in my city had a mentoring program where they set you up with graduates in the area that are happy to let you shadow.
 
Bacchus said:
MDs cannot practice anywhere they want. Believe it or not, countries want to employ their own physicians.
Click to expand...
Truth, Scotland comes to mind, they will only let docs practice who attended a WHO accredited school, which no US school is. 😛 What is the likely hood of someone moving to another country and practicing anyway? Of course it happens. But last time I checked most countries pay their docs poorly, and most med students will have 200-300k in loans before interest accumulation to tackle.
 
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Biology101 said:
uhh...thats not true at all...there was and is a fundamental differance between Allopathic (MD) and Osteopathic (DO).

MD = Disease focused

DO = Patient and Preventative medicine focus

OMM is the only one of the differences
Click to expand...

Disagree with this. This is more advertising fluff than anything else for pre-meds (and something for you to put on your DO application essays, lol). The curriculum between MD and DO schools are very similar except for the addition of OMT for DOs. I also noticed some of my MD friends had a little more biochemistry and genetics than my school (DO) did. We had a few preventative medicine classes, but really we use the same textbooks and cover the same material as MD students. There is no "we focus on the patient and MDs focus on the disease" when you actually are in medical school.
 
Biology101 said:
uhh...thats not true at all...there was and is a fundamental differance between Allopathic (MD) and Osteopathic (DO).

MD = Disease focused

DO = Patient and Preventative medicine focus

OMM is the only one of the differences
Click to expand...


This is not as true as you think it is, dear. DOs don't have a monopoly on common sense.
 
Using biology101's argument you could say that only people who care about science go MD and only people who care about helping other people go DO.

I don't care what my initials are. It could say FrkyBgStok, Daddy Mac for all I care as long as I am helping in the end.
 
There is no difference between a DO or a MD anymore. There used to be a big difference, a stigma against DOs, and lower entrance requirements for DO schools. That has changed. Kaplan published in "getting into medical school 2010" that currently, DOs are only .05 off from MDs in gpa (3.5 vs 3.55). and 2 points off by the MCAT (28 vs 30). So now its pretty much equivalent competitiveness for either route you choose to become a physician. The book also says that more applicants applied to DO schools this past year, and therefore DO schools had offered more rejections than MD schools, making them more competitive.

None of this really matters though. DO schools have been increasing their acceptance standards each year, and increasing the amount of DO schools. Within a few years there will be exactly equivalent acceptance standards instead of the minor point difference there is now.

In the end you learn the same material, you take the same exams, you can go to the same residencies, and you take the same exact specialty boards.

Also in my experience, any type of DO vs. MD discussion is usually among pre-meds. In the actual Medical Field it makes no difference, as long as you have a good reputation for good care, that is all that matters, and that is what colleagues will respect you for.

NYDOC112, D.O.
1st year resident- University of Rochester Anesthesiology (allopathic)
 
NYDOC112 said:
There is no difference between a DO or a MD anymore. There used to be a big difference, a stigma against DOs, and lower entrance requirements for DO schools. That has changed. Kaplan published in "getting into medical school 2010" that currently, DOs are only .05 off from MDs in gpa (3.5 vs 3.55). and 2 points off by the MCAT (28 vs 30). So now its pretty much equivalent competitiveness for either route you choose to become a physician. The book also says that more applicants applied to DO schools this past year, and therefore DO schools had offered more rejections than MD schools, making them more competitive.

None of this really matters though. DO schools have been increasing their acceptance standards each year, and increasing the amount of DO schools. Within a few years there will be exactly equivalent acceptance standards instead of the minor point difference there is now.

In the end you learn the same material, you take the same exams, you can go to the same residencies, and you take the same exact specialty boards.

Also in my experience, any type of DO vs. MD discussion is usually among pre-meds. In the actual Medical Field it makes no difference, as long as you have a good reputation for good care, that is all that matters, and that is what colleagues will respect you for.

NYDOC112, D.O.
1st year resident- University of Rochester Anesthesiology (allopathic)
Click to expand...


Little off on the DO average MCAT the newest CIB has it ~26 not 28. Other than that I wholly agree with everything else. Pre-meds are ******ed, and on SDN I've watched this same MDs=Godz DOs=Janitorz leak over into some med students thinking; of course most of these students are those that are going to medical school to validate themselves to their parents or to the kid that beat them up in high school.
 
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The published average of ~26 is still from the entering class of 2002, The AOA, and AACOM, have never updated the stats since then. True stats for this year for DOs are 10.00, 9.00, P, 9.00.Total= 28.00... But again not much of a big deal.
 
My 2 cents... it really depends on what you want to go into. If you want to go into primary care, DO or MD will be fine. If you're considering more competitive specialties, being a MD will open more doors. There are still residencies that are MD-friendly, and not real keen on DO's.

But remember if you kick-ass on boards, it won't matter too much. Once you're out in the real world, doesn't matter what you are.... just matters if you're a good doctor.
 
So heres something I've wondered...

In terms of classtime, DOs add in a few hundred hours of OMM. And I'd guess we might have a slightly longer 'theories of practicing medicine' bit.

What do we drop from the MD curriculum? Anything specific? A little bit of everything?
 
Warbler said:
So heres something I've wondered...

In terms of classtime, DOs add in a few hundred hours of OMM. And I'd guess we might have a slightly longer 'theories of practicing medicine' bit.

What do we drop from the MD curriculum? Anything specific? A little bit of everything?
Click to expand...


maybe classes in medical law, insurance, and business (running an office)...though I believe that Lecom Erie has at least a small amoutn of time dedicated to those.
 
FrkyBgStok said:
Using biology101's argument you could say that only people who care about science go MD and only people who care about helping other people go DO.

I don't care what my initials are. It could say FrkyBgStok, Daddy Mac for all I care as long as I am helping in the end.
Click to expand...

Same here. Medical school could be an evening program at a trade school for all I care.
 
There is absolutely a difference in osteopathic medicine. But you need to look for it; osteopathy is a worldview of how to understand the body. Not every DO student is willing to or has the time to do this. The amount of medical knowledge keeps doubling, but we're still stuck on 4 years of medical school except for LECOM trying a 3-year primary care track. Don't run around saying DOs treat the whole person. Instead, ask yourself "how do I treat the whole person?" That's where you'll learn the art of medicine. It's very important to have teachers who will bring these things out. At the same time, when you're looking for something, it's possible to see connections that aren't really there. The solution to that is to keep learning more.

Ask your MD school friends how much time they spend on the gait cycle or how fascia works.

By the way, you will never meet a group of bigger complainers than medical students, super sensitive to every perceived waste of their time. Take everything with a grain of salt. Especially on SDN.
 
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Warbler said:
So heres something I've wondered...

In terms of classtime, DOs add in a few hundred hours of OMM. And I'd guess we might have a slightly longer 'theories of practicing medicine' bit.

What do we drop from the MD curriculum? Anything specific? A little bit of everything?
Click to expand...


We do not drop all that much at all. We combine and expand on lectures MD schools get also, EX: MD students learn gait, DO students learn gait, all of the fascia that can affect it, how to treat that issue so that it doesn't become a major medical issue in the future. We also have more class time in general. DO schools have longer class days than MD schools in order to make up the extra time...
 
Warbler said:
So heres something I've wondered...

In terms of classtime, DOs add in a few hundred hours of OMM. And I'd guess we might have a slightly longer 'theories of practicing medicine' bit.

What do we drop from the MD curriculum? Anything specific? A little bit of everything?
Click to expand...
Some people believe Biochem and Genetics is lighter.
 
NYDOC112 said:
We do not drop all that much at all. We combine and expand on lectures MD schools get also, EX: MD students learn gait, DO students learn gait, all of the fascia that can affect it, how to treat that issue so that it doesn't become a major medical issue in the future. We also have more class time in general. DO schools have longer class days than MD schools in order to make up the extra time...
Click to expand...

That sucks. Longer class days.
 
Eric714 said:
My 2 cents... it really depends on what you want to go into. If you want to go into primary care, DO or MD will be fine. If you're considering more competitive specialties, being a MD will open more doors.
Click to expand...

You know, I have ALWAYS been curious about this statement. The "Open more doors" one. I'm *ashamed* that I'm a 2nd year med student (osteopathic no less) and I still don't understand how being an MD student gives you more options. Just math wise, we (DO students) are allowed to apply for the MD match AND the DO match but MD students can't apply for the DO match which yes, has fewer spots then the MD match, but there are also fewer students in it. I mean, I know there are MD programs that don't really cater to DO's, so I always thought that was it. Is it?
(sorry for the innane question, I've just always wondered).
 
singinfifi said:
You know, I have ALWAYS been curious about this statement. The "Open more doors" one. I'm *ashamed* that I'm a 2nd year med student (osteopathic no less) and I still don't understand how being an MD student gives you more options. Just math wise, we (DO students) are allowed to apply for the MD match AND the DO match but MD students can't apply for the DO match which yes, has fewer spots then the MD match, but there are also fewer students in it. I mean, I know there are MD programs that don't really cater to DO's, so I always thought that was it. Is it?
(sorry for the innane question, I've just always wondered).
Click to expand...

Thats it... Some people think that DOs have less of a chance at some very competitive MD residencies, This was the case and is now changing however. The current Intern of the year award at Johns Hopkins, went to a cardiology resident there, who is a DO... It is now becoming a advantage. MD residencies are now less restrictive of DO entering MD specialties, now its all about grades not Letters, As a DO with good grades you can apply to the same specialties in the DO and MD match. I did really well on the USMLEs and COMLEXs, and im a resident of Anesthesiology, at a top 20 allopathic hospital...
 
redrumi said:
Truth, Scotland comes to mind, they will only let docs practice who attended a WHO accredited school, which no US school is. 😛 What is the likely hood of someone moving to another country and practicing anyway? Of course it happens. But last time I checked most countries pay their docs poorly, and most med students will have 200-300k in loans before interest accumulation to tackle.
Click to expand...

US schools are WHO/IMED listed https://imed.faimer.org/results.asp...ge=1&cname=USA&city=&region=0&rname=&psize=25
 
Biology101 said:
uhh...thats not true at all...there was and is a fundamental differance between Allopathic (MD) and Osteopathic (DO).

MD = Disease focused

DO = Patient and Preventative medicine focus

OMM is the only one of the differences
Click to expand...

This is patently false. MDs and DOs both treat the whole patient. Having seen MDs and DOs in action and considering the fact my father is an MD, I'm offended by the notion of this. MDs and DOs treat both the disease and patient, if you compare an MD and DO, they'll tackle the issue in the same way the majority of the time. This really is just a silly platitude, which is constantly invoked with no real meaning.
 
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gonnif said:
This maybe the year where many things flip on the MD/DO.

The AAMC/AMCAS 2009-2010 reports 19,332 individual "acceptees" out of 42,269 applicants with ultimately 18,390 matriculants. That would mean an ratio of applicants to acceptees of 2.19.

The AACOM/AACOMAS reported 12,617 applicants for 4,698 seats (the DO school in Texas doesn't use AACOMAS) for a ratio of applicants to acceptees of 2.69.

*It was more competitive to get into DO school than it was MD school this past cycle
Click to expand...

You are 100% true here are facts to back you up:
Taken from the Kaplan Website:

"Osteopathic schools receive 3.5 applicants for each person admitted compared with 2.4 for allopathic schools. Even though acceptance into osteopathic schools is more competitive than acceptance into allopathic (MD) schools, osteopathic school admissions committees are more geared towards identifying other variables besides grades and test scores, a process intended to produce more empathic physicians. http://www.kaptest.com/MCAT/Get-Into-Med-School/Research-Med-Schools/osteopathic-option.html

Kaplans "getting into medical school 2010" also listed DO schools as more competitive than MD schools for the current year, in the general program overviews chapter... Tides are turning...
 
Biology101 said:
uhh...thats not true at all...there was and is a fundamental differance between Allopathic (MD) and Osteopathic (DO).

MD = Disease focused

DO = Patient and Preventative medicine focus

OMM is the only one of the differences
Click to expand...

MUST you say this?! What rock are you living under?!
:troll: :slap: :sendoff: :diebanana: :boom:
 
NYDOC112 said:
You are 100% true here are facts to back you up:
Taken from the Kaplan Website:

"Osteopathic schools receive 3.5 applicants for each person admitted compared with 2.4 for allopathic schools. Even though acceptance into osteopathic schools is more competitive than acceptance into allopathic (MD) schools, osteopathic school admissions committees are more geared towards identifying other variables besides grades and test scores, a process intended to produce more empathic physicians. http://www.kaptest.com/MCAT/Get-Into-Med-School/Research-Med-Schools/osteopathic-option.html

Kaplans "getting into medical school 2010" also listed DO schools as more competitive than MD schools for the current year, in the general program overviews chapter... Tides are turning...
Click to expand...

gonnif said:
Actually you can view the original data from AAMC and AACOM as below

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/start.htm

http://www.aacom.org/resources/ome/2010-02/Pages/2009class.aspx
Click to expand...

If you want to judge competitiveness based upon number of applicants rather than quality of applicants.

That just isn't the best metric.
 
Pegasus1731 said:
MUST you say this?! What rock are you living under?!
Click to expand...


Ok Pegasus1731...I am sorry for not writing a long essay about the philosophical differences between MD and DO and how those differences are slowly eroding due to changes in medical practice and subsequently medical education, but I would like to see you and the others who are so critical to judge my words to do better in the same length.

For an outsider or beginner that's a good start....it was my start...that was the original start
 
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