more MSTP help please

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Does anyone have a link or know where i can get info on the competitiveness of D.O. MSTP programs (looked but cant find). I know that MD/PhD programs TOO competitive for me, but i still have the desire and research experience to pursue a combined degree program. Also, do D.O./Ph.D. programs pay tuition and give a stipend like the M.D. counterparts? I saw that one program only paid for the 3-5th years or something like that.
Thanks!

 

[dr.z]

MSTP program is funded by NIH. Currently I don't beleive that there are NIH funded D.O./Ph.D program.

 

[annh31]

There is a thread where this was discussed pretty extensively a while back. Search for it - almost every DO/PhD program was brought up and how they work financially, etc.

 

[jkhamlin]

Does anyone have a link or know where i can get info on the competitiveness of D.O. MSTP programs (looked but cant find). I know that MD/PhD programs TOO competitive for me, but i still have the desire and research experience to pursue a combined degree program. Also, do D.O./Ph.D. programs pay tuition and give a stipend like the M.D. counterparts? I saw that one program only paid for the 3-5th years or something like that.
Thanks!

None of the DO ones pay tuition, and only some of the MD ones do.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

MSTP program is funded by NIH. Currently I don't beleive that there are NIH funded D.O./Ph.D program.

This is correct.

DO/PhD programs are not MSTP programs; they are simply dual-degrees.


Some DO schools offer stipends during the PhD years and a partial waiver for MS3/MS4.

 

[jkhamlin]

This is correct.

DO/PhD programs are not MSTP programs; they are simply dual-degrees.


Some DO schools offer stipends during the PhD years and a partial waiver for MS3/MS4.

They are MSTP programs, that's the whole point of having them. They are just not official NIH funded MSTP's. Same with all of the unfunded MD/PhD, PharmD/PhD, etc.

 

[Gut Shot]

They are MSTP programs, that's the whole point of having them. They are just not official NIH funded MSTP's. Same with all of the unfunded MD/PhD, PharmD/PhD, etc.

Whoa there, hoss. From the MSTP forum's FAQ:

"My summary: Any program that grants a MD or DO and a PhD has the goal of training medical scientists. However, only certain programs receive funding from the NIGMS on a grant called the "Medical Scientist Training Program". These programs are selected based on rigorous criteria and are reevaluated every five years by the NIGMS. As a result, when we refer to "MSTP", we typically are only referring to these select schools. Every MSTP provides full funding, meaning tuition remission and stipend for all years of study. Only some non-MSTP MD/PhD programs provide full funding, and no DO/PhD programs provide full funding."

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

They are MSTP programs, that's the whole point of having them. They are just not official NIH funded MSTP's. Same with all of the unfunded MD/PhD, PharmD/PhD, etc.

False. An MSTP is an NIH funded program.


Thus, DO/PhD programs are not MSTPs.

 

[dr.z]

Whoa there, hoss. From the MSTP forum's FAQ:

"My summary: Any program that grants a MD or DO and a PhD has the goal of training medical scientists. However, only certain programs receive funding from the NIGMS on a grant called the "Medical Scientist Training Program". These programs are selected based on rigorous criteria and are reevaluated every five years by the NIGMS. As a result, when we refer to "MSTP", we typically are only referring to these select schools. Every MSTP provides full funding, meaning tuition remission and stipend for all years of study. Only some non-MSTP MD/PhD programs provide full funding, and no DO/PhD programs provide full funding."

This is what I thought.

 

[jkhamlin]

Whoa there, hoss. From the MSTP forum's FAQ:

"My summary: Any program that grants a MD or DO and a PhD has the goal of training medical scientists. However, only certain programs receive funding from the NIGMS on a grant called the "Medical Scientist Training Program". These programs are selected based on rigorous criteria and are reevaluated every five years by the NIGMS. As a result, when we refer to "MSTP", we typically are only referring to these select schools. Every MSTP provides full funding, meaning tuition remission and stipend for all years of study. Only some non-MSTP MD/PhD programs provide full funding, and no DO/PhD programs provide full funding."

Ohhh, sorry, I didn't realize that the forum is the final authority on this. 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

 

[jkhamlin]

False. An MSTP is an NIH funded program.


Thus, DO/PhD programs are not MSTPs.

Wrong again. You can say it as many times as you would like, but it doesn't make it true. 🙄

 

[jkhamlin]

Really, a couple of you are just simultaneously splitting hairs and fencing windmills with the MSTP thing.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Wrong again. You can say it as many times as you would like, but it doesn't make it true. 🙄

Yeah, I should probably be saying the same thing to you.

BTW, show me a DO school that actually calls their program an MSTP.


No need to get your panties in a bundle over there, Christina.

 

[jkhamlin]

Yeah, I should probably be saying the same thing to you.

BTW, show me a DO school that actually calls their program an MSTP.


No need to get your panties in a bundle over there, Christina.

http://www.nigms.nih.gov/funding/training_details/mstp.html
Following the above link, you can see that even the director of the NIH funded MSTP program vacillates between the semantics. He refers to "proposed MSTP's," newer ones that aren't funded yet, and established ones.
One criteria for applying for the funding:
"The students should have an identity as medical scientist trainees..."
The fact is that the "dual degree" programs have the end goal and purpose of training medical scientists.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Following the above link takes you to a discussion of MD/PhD programs; there is no mention of DO/PhDs/Osteopathic Medicine anywhere.

 

[1Path]

If you're from a group underrepresented in medicine, you CAN get NIH funding for a combined DO/PhD that pays for ALL of the years of the program and I should know. I'm applying for it this year. 😉

 

[villileblanc]

BTW, show me a DO school that actually calls their program an MSTP.


Here is a link to the non-NIH funded MSTP program at MSU Osteopathic:

http://www.com.msu.edu/mstp/current.htm

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

Alas, I am wrong.

 

[DocJam]

I am doing the dual DO/PhD program at TCOM, and they refer to it as a MSTP, and are in the process of applying for NIH funding for the program. They already turned in the proposal I think. (I don't know all the details because i just got accepted..i start next year). i am only getting funding for the PhD portion of it, but the medical school really tries to help out the dual degree students with funding for the medical schoo part of it. hope this helps. jam

 

[Gut Shot]

Ohhh, sorry, I didn't realize that the forum is the final authority on this. 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

Tell you what, then, on May 21 we can play "I'll show you my MD, PhD if you show me yours."

 

[Gut Shot]

Alas, I am wrong.

Perhaps, but the semantics of this debate are really irritating to OCD purists like myself. Maybe we should break it down as such:

MSTP = funded by NIH
Combined degree program = not funded by NIH (fully or partially funded by administering institution/department)
Non-funded combined degree program = carne del burro

 

[place]

Wow

 

[1Path]

Perhaps, but the semantics of this debate are really irritating to OCD purists like myself. Maybe we should break it down as such:

MSTP = funded by NIH
Combined degree program = not funded by NIH (fully or partially funded by administering institution/department)
Non-funded combined degree program = carne del burro

Probaby should be broken down even further:

"Us" = MSTP title user = Elite NIH funding

"Them" = everyone else doing an MD/PhD with full funding, NO MSTP "title", NIH "unelite" funding

"Ya'll" = Partial MD/PhD funding

"WTF??" = DO/PhD with or without funding

😀

 

[Belfagor]

Wow

Seconded.

 

[housecleaning]

I think what's added fuel to the fire here is Lee's refusal to admit that DO/PhD programs are not true MSTP programs. He's been scolded about this before, but because he's a DO he won't change the title of the forum. It's kinda funny... in a sad sort of way.