More people pass Honors than Regular Ochem?

[wristbandMD]

I was recently introduced to MyEdu and have been looking over my upcoming classes. While looking up Organic Chemistry (at the University of Washington) and I came up with interesting stats. Before I begin, I should note that there are three types of Organic Chemistry: Regular Organic Chemistry (3 quarters), Honors Organic Chemistry (3 quarters), and Short Program Organic Chemistry (2 quarters).

Regular:
Heavy Load (all 3 quarters)
A's awarded:
1st quarter: 18% (number of students=104)
2nd quarter: 21% (n=80)
3rd quarter: 25% (n=219)

Honors:
Moderate Load (all 3 quarters)
A's awarded:
1st quarter: 39% (n=54)
2nd quarter: 42% (n=46)
3rd quarter: 45% (n=34)

Short Program:
Heavy Load (all 2 quarters)
A's awarded:
1st quarter: 18% (n=71)
2nd quarter: 23% (n=61)


So, it seems that Honors students pass the class with an A much more often. The class also has a lighter load, apparently.

However, the fact that Honors students ace the class and it has a moderate load may be because of the expectations of the students that take the class. Any thoughts? Should I take Honors, Short, or Regular?

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[friedrice]

I'll be taking chem335 this fall too. The numbers could simply be selection bias. Students taking honors are usually more advanced and motivated. That could explain the discrepancy. Also, former honors students have told me the curve for honors is much higher. Regular ochem is around 2.7-2.8 (much like genchem).

I'm quite excited for chem335 (and possibly a little nervous). I heard Forrest Michael to be a great teacher!

 

[theWUbear]

Students taking honors are usually more advanced and motivated. That could explain the discrepancy.

👍 I don't have any knowledge specific to this case at UW, but after reading the OP I thought of the same possibility

 

[NickNaylor]

My thought is that you're probably putting way too much thought into choosing a class.

 

[jvesco22]

Don't you have a crap sGPA anyways? Just take the regular course before you sink your gpa even more....

 

[flip26]

It mayt have nothing to do with reg vs honors and everything to do with the grading philosophy of the profs involved in these classes.

At my undergrad, the choice of profs was CRUCIAL to your grade chances.

 

[NickNaylor]

It mayt have nothing to do with reg vs honors and everything to do with the grading philosophy of the profs involved in these classes.

At my undergrad, the choice of profs was CRUCIAL to your grade chances.

👍

 

[Snarkalark]

also, more smart and/or overachieving kids take the honors sections.

 

[LRAccord624]

It mayt have nothing to do with reg vs honors and everything to do with the grading philosophy of the profs involved in these classes.

At my undergrad, the choice of profs was CRUCIAL to your grade chances.

This was the most important factor in my undergrad as well.

However, I know several people who dropped my ochem class as well as the other other regular section because they were making C's or failing. They enrolled in the honors section and made A's. This could have had several factors though: they were more determined b/c two W's from organic wouldn't look good; they had a better/more lenient professor; they had a smaller class (30 vs. 350) and therefore more individual attn.

Pick the class with the higher %A's, or whichever you hear has a great professor. Ask around.

 

[lovebat]

I would think in honors you generally have a higher density of more motivated, very intelligent kids. Being "average" in the 335-337 series is not likely the same as being "average" in the 237-239 series. It would make sense that there are more As awarded in honors because these kids would likely be getting As in the 237-239 series as well. If they don't bump the curve, it seems you would just get a lower grade for taking honors. I took the 335-337 series at UW, and it was totally fine. Michaels and Gelb are both cool guys and great profs. Smaller class-size is a +. And, Hopkins teaches the 346/347 labs--really cool guy.

 

[Akr]

At my college, it seemed like everyone in the honors chem classes did much better than those in gen chem. My theory is that in honors chem, we got more attention - we had a really good teacher, a better teacher-student ratio, more TA's. Plus, being surrounded by a bunch of smarties and studying with them had its effect, too.

Anyway, my bias is towards the honors option... like people have already suggested, you should try to ask around and find out who the good professors are.

 

[wristbandMD]

Don't you have a crap sGPA anyways? Just take the regular course before you sink your gpa even more....

In regards to my sGPA, I have ~3.65 right now, but that's only because I in my last class I got a B due to a case of scarlet fever, which is no fun at all and keeps you out of school for quite a while. My GPA isn't great, but it's not crap.


I feel confident that I could receive As in the regular Organic classes, but I was questioning going into Honors because I thought I may end up with a B, versus an A in regular.

Thanks for all of the advice guys. I think, as someone above said, that the professors are crucial to a good grade. I'll do a bit of research on all of them before I choose the classes, of course.

 

[hiyaman]

I took honors ochem, and the material you learn is slightly different, everyone in the class is extremely motivated and study hard.

If you want to take honors ochem then you should take it. You probably learn more than the regular class.

 

[wristbandMD]

I took honors ochem, and the material you learn is slightly different, everyone in the class is extremely motivated and study hard.

If you want to take honors ochem then you should take it. You probably learn more than the regular class.

Thank you. That's probably the most helpful post thus far. I appreciate it 🙂

 

[hiyaman]

well what I mean by slightly different, and this is different at different schools probably, is that you learn what the regular class learns + a little extra/ more in depth.

Also the labs are a little bit more fun (what I mean by more fun is that you learn more lab techniques, my class got to use rotovaps in the first quarter while the regular class never even got to use rotovaps at all. Also we did better experiments but took longer) than the regular class at least in my case. Also at my school you had the option of doing a upper division organic chemistry lab during the third quarter, which is very nice if you want to do ochem research.

Also I think the teaching might be different, students in regular course tend to think ochem is about memorizing rxns and stuff...well there's a little memorizing but i'd say that a lot of ochem is about knowing the concepts. Mechanisms are significantly easier to figure out if you know your basic concepts down, you can figure mechs out. Basically what I was trying to say in this convoluted paragraph is that, your honors ochem course might teach the subject better as well. Idk this is all my opinion.

 

[wristbandMD]

well what I mean by slightly different, and this is different at different schools probably, is that you learn what the regular class learns + a little extra/ more in depth.

Also the labs are a little bit more fun (what I mean by more fun is that you learn more lab techniques, my class got to use rotovaps in the first quarter while the regular class never even got to use rotovaps at all. Also we did better experiments but took longer) than the regular class at least in my case. Also at my school you had the option of doing a upper division organic chemistry lab during the third quarter, which is very nice if you want to do ochem research.

Also I think the teaching might be different, students in regular course tend to think ochem is about memorizing rxns and stuff...well there's a little memorizing but i'd say that a lot of ochem is about knowing the concepts. Mechanisms are significantly easier to figure out if you know your basic concepts down, you can figure mechs out. Basically what I was trying to say in this convoluted paragraph is that, your honors ochem course might teach the subject better as well. Idk this is all my opinion.

Ahh, I see. I am a huge learner (I would stay in school forever if I could), so I'm very interested in learning a bit more than the regular class. This hadn't even occurred to me. I assumed, originally, that the difference between Honors and Regular was that Honors was more difficult. It's good to know that there is an actual difference (be it slight) in curriculum.

 

[hiyaman]

You should find students that took honors ochem at your institution, and ask about their experience, and ask students that took regular ochem what their experience was. That will help you more in deciding which to take.

 

[Frazier]

The honors section is integrated into the "regular" Ochem class at my school. It is strange, they have their own "honors section" for registration, but same exact class and labs. Sucks because of the curve... I miss the party-goers from GenChem - only ~50% of the class would show up for 11am lecture at then they'd bomb exams miserably.

My ochem class it at 8am this semester and I doubt there has been below 90% attendance any day thus far.

Also there is a lot more of 'those' students that like to answer the professors rhetorical questions loudly and as quickly as they humanly can. Blah.

 

[hiyaman]

The honors section is integrated into the "regular" Ochem class at my school. It is strange, they have their own "honors section" for registration, but same exact class and labs. Sucks because of the curve... I miss the party-goers from GenChem - only ~50% of the class would show up for 11am lecture at then they'd bomb exams miserably.

My ochem class it at 8am this semester and I doubt there has been below 90% attendance any day thus far.

Also there is a lot more of 'those' students that like to answer the professors rhetorical questions loudly and as quickly as they humanly can. Blah.

That's weird, what's the point of taking honors ochem then? Is it mandatory or something in order to be in the honors program at your school?

 

[Frazier]

That's weird, what's the point of taking honors ochem then? Is it mandatory or something in order to be in the honors program at your school?

I have no idea. I'm just one of the inferior non-honor students. 😀

 

[Richardh]

the professor who ends up teaching honors ochem (or general ochem) will be the deciding factor 🙂 in the end make sure to remember the material and use it later on (for instance studying for the mcat).

 

[AllDay24]

Every school as this type of quirk. At my college, Honors Chemistry (intended for people who want a M.S. Chemistry or Biochemistry) hands out all As, while General Chemistry is curved to a C+. In fact, I actually know someone who took Gen Chem and got a C+, and who then switched to Honors at got an A.

Also, for calculus III, there is a course code with a slightly higher number that is much easier than the lower one.