Most Compelling EC's/Stories You've Seen

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Hey guys, I just wanted to start a discussion on the most insane ec's or stories you've seen from applicants and how their cycle went as a result.

Thanks and have a great day!
 
Johnny Kim is the easy answer. He:
  • enlisted as a Navy SEAL out of high school
  • Deployed twice to Iraq
  • Silver Star, Bronze Star Medal (with Combat "V"), the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal (with Combat "V"), and Combat Action Ribbon recipient
  • Earned his commission as a naval officer
  • Graduated UC San Diego summa cum laude as a math major (not technically an EC but fun to mention it because that means his GPA was at least 3.9+ in a math degree...like wtf)
Turns out this mediocre resume was enough to get him into Harvard Medical School.

After med school, he was selected to become a NASA astronaut and is currently training to land on the moon in 2024. So maybe the Navy and Harvard where right to see some potential in him.

Edit: he is also handsome
 
LizzyM said:
Son of a teen mom, former Marine, USNA grad. Circumnavigated North America in a submarine. Got admitted to every school that interviewed him.
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Wait...like he circumnavigated North American in a submarine as part of the Navy or all by himself? Because the former sounds like fairly normal military experience, albeit cool to laypeople. But, the latter is absolutely insane...if he did that no wonder he was accepted to every school he applied to.
 
Vivid_Quail said:
Wait...like he circumnavigated North American in a submarine as part of the Navy or all by himself? Because the former sounds like fairly normal military experience, albeit cool to laypeople. But, the latter is absolutely insane...if he did that no wonder he was accepted to every school he applied to.
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If he was able to build his own submarine and travel in it, I would recommend he becomes an engineer.
 
Vivid_Quail said:
Wait...like he circumnavigated North American in a submarine as part of the Navy or all by himself? Because the former sounds like fairly normal military experience, albeit cool to laypeople. But, the latter is absolutely insane...if he did that no wonder he was accepted to every school he applied to.
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Not a superman... did it in the US Navy as an engineer.
 
Vivid_Quail said:
Wait...like he circumnavigated North American in a submarine as part of the Navy or all by himself? Because the former sounds like fairly normal military experience, albeit cool to laypeople. But, the latter is absolutely insane...if he did that no wonder he was accepted to every school he applied to.
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Not that many people in the Navy are submariners.
 
Vivid_Quail said:
Johnny Kim is the easy answer. He:
  • enlisted as a Navy SEAL out of high school
  • Deployed twice to Iraq
  • Silver Star, Bronze Star Medal (with Combat "V"), the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal (with Combat "V"), and Combat Action Ribbon recipient
  • Earned his commission as a naval officer
  • Graduated UC San Diego summa cum laude as a math major (not technically an EC but fun to mention it because that means his GPA was at least 3.9+ in a math degree...like wtf)
Turns out this mediocre resume was enough to get him into Harvard Medical School.

After med school, he was selected to become a NASA astronaut and is currently training to land on the moon in 2024. So maybe the Navy and Harvard where right to see some potential in him.

Edit: he is also handsome
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Let's see, TV weatherwoman; US Navy helicopter pilot; students who were homeless; refugees from war zones; some who had to leave med school due to illness; Olympic athletes; and a few who had months-long volunteer venues overseas (the real deal...no vacations)
 
This is a good thread to point out why you shouldn't feel rushed to go to college or immediately go to Med school. There are some really driven people out there who want to to be involved in research, ect, who truly belong in college right off the bat.

Then there are plenty of people out their whose applications, I can imagine, resemble something akin to "becoming a doctor seemed like a good idea."

What I tell people (as successful non-trad/vet applicant who will be 30 when I show up for school) is so long as you are fully committed to doing something that is positive (ie brings personal growth) you will probably be alright (assuming you can handle the premed course work...

I can't speak as an adcom but I imagine this follows for gap years as well. I have some friends eyeing MPHs because they didn't get in this cycle. It's like, No! They don't have bad stats. Doing 2 years in the peace corps will be a way better experience than just taking more classes, especially if you don't need to improve your GPA.

Hell, I don't even think you need to do something as bold as the peace corps. I ended up for a time doing conservation work in the Western US. It gave me lots to talk about with any school that cared about rural medicine and also plenty of cultural interactions working on Native American reservations, ect.

There is literally so much out there is you just look up from your MCAT study books once in a while...
 
Goro said:
Not that many people in the Navy are submariners.
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To be even more specific, 70-ish submarines with an average crew of 125ish (easy math, not taking SSBNs into account which have two crews) and adding in the ones on shore duty, probably around 10k submariners or so on active duty at any one point. What makes this guy even more special is this guy was an officer as well, and a nuclear officer at that which likely means he qualified as nuclear engineer even if he just did the standard 5 year contract. Submarine junior officer is by the far one of the most miserable, hardest working jobs in the Navy in my opinion. This guy certainly didn't just have the average military resume.
 
LittleBrother said:
This is a good thread to point out why you shouldn't feel rushed to go to college or immediately go to Med school. There are some really driven people out there who want to to be involved in research, ect, who truly belong in college right off the bat.

Then there are plenty of people out their whose applications, I can imagine, resemble something akin to "becoming a doctor seemed like a good idea."

What I tell people (as successful non-trad/vet applicant who will be 30 when I show up for school) is so long as you are fully committed to doing something that is positive (ie brings personal growth) you will probably be alright (assuming you can handle the premed course work...

I can't speak as an adcom but I imagine this follows for gap years as well. I have some friends eyeing MPHs because they didn't get in this cycle. It's like, No! They don't have bad stats. Doing 2 years in the peace corps will be a way better experience than just taking more classes, especially if you don't need to improve your GPA.

Hell, I don't even think you need to do something as bold as the peace corps. I ended up for a time doing conservation work in the Western US. It gave me lots to talk about with any school that cared about rural medicine and also plenty of cultural interactions working on Native American reservations, ect.

There is literally so much out there is you just look up from your MCAT study books once in a while...
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I get what you’re saying but I don’t think it should be the norm (and it isn’t) that everyone have compelling activities just to get into medical school. And it’s doubly funny because many of the adcoms today probably got in with resumes and stats that would be DOA for an applicant today.

The examples given here the very tiny majority. Though I agree gap years can give one a lot of good life experience.
 
Banco said:
I get what you’re saying but I don’t think it should be the norm (and it isn’t) that everyone have compelling activities just to get into medical school. And it’s doubly funny because many of the adcoms today probably got in with resumes and stats that would be DOA for an applicant today.

The examples given here the very tiny majority. Though I agree gap years can give one a lot of good life experience.
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Yes gap years gives life experiences but till recently most didn’t have gap years and they all doing fine as doctors.
 
gonnif said:
Had a classmate who graduated at 20 years old with a BS in Biochem and BE in Engineering Science, was a champion speed skater, had built a harpsichord, had multiple published papers, went on to an MD/PhD.

I have seen stories ranging from College/Olympic champions in multiple sports, people who start a business, organization or charity that takes off, people who have come up thru some of the worse circumstances from living on the street, not having their own bed until they in college, being a refugee or immigrant in mid to late teens with no English making it thru college on time, etc.

I have seen people take the seeming simplest stories and create utter coherent, compelling, narratives such as working nights at 7-11
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Any elaboration on those simple stories that were able to work so well? What made them stand out? Asking as someone who's probably going to have a pretty simple story 😀.
 
Vivid_Quail said:
Johnny Kim is the easy answer. He:
  • enlisted as a Navy SEAL out of high school
  • Deployed twice to Iraq
  • Silver Star, Bronze Star Medal (with Combat "V"), the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal (with Combat "V"), and Combat Action Ribbon recipient
  • Earned his commission as a naval officer
  • Graduated UC San Diego summa cum laude as a math major (not technically an EC but fun to mention it because that means his GPA was at least 3.9+ in a math degree...like wtf)
Turns out this mediocre resume was enough to get him into Harvard Medical School.

After med school, he was selected to become a NASA astronaut and is currently training to land on the moon in 2024. So maybe the Navy and Harvard where right to see some potential in him.

Edit: he is also handsome
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I'll add one thing about Jonny Kim. Everyone should listen to his interview with Jocko Willink on YouTube. Its 4 hours long I think but it was fantastic. to see how much that man has overcome I mind boggling. he and his mother were abused by his father and it ended with police killing his dad I believe when he was graduating high school. Idk why but I assumed he didn't really serve as a SEAL (thought he just jumped from one thing to the other) but he actually "really" served and went through traumatizing stuff that led him to want to be a physician. He's just such a humble person it was just really inspiring to hear. 10/10 recommend
 
The point to take away from this thread though is this: of the 20,000 applicants admitted to medical school every year, a handful have compelling stories/ECs and many are just solid but not exceptional. 99% of those who are admitted are not in the top 1% of applicants.
 
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Vivid_Quail said:
Johnny Kim is the easy answer. He:
  • enlisted as a Navy SEAL out of high school
  • Deployed twice to Iraq
  • Silver Star, Bronze Star Medal (with Combat "V"), the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal (with Combat "V"), and Combat Action Ribbon recipient
  • Earned his commission as a naval officer
  • Graduated UC San Diego summa cum laude as a math major (not technically an EC but fun to mention it because that means his GPA was at least 3.9+ in a math degree...like wtf)
Turns out this mediocre resume was enough to get him into Harvard Medical School.

After med school, he was selected to become a NASA astronaut and is currently training to land on the moon in 2024. So maybe the Navy and Harvard where right to see some potential in him.

Edit: he is also handsome
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When we did this interview with him shortly after his selection as an astronaut, he said he'd used SDN as a premed:
www.studentdoctor.net

Q&A with Jonny Kim, MD, NASA Astronaut Candidate | SDN Review

When the 12 members of NASA’s 2017 Astronaut Candidate Class report to Johnson Space Center in Houston, TX for their two years of training, two of
www.studentdoctor.net www.studentdoctor.net
 
I think there’s a small lesson to be taken for the “other 99% applicants”: Most of these examples are incredibly elite achievements, but also very unique. I think a lot of people starting this journey are obsessed with doing something that looks impressive and difficult, rather than something genuinely interesting to them.

Sometimes you have to forget about being a good applicant for a minute and just have an interesting, fun life independent of your career aspirations.
 
LizzyM said:
The point to take away from this thread though is this: of the 20,000 applicants admitted to medical school every year, a handful have compelling stories/ECs and many are just solid but not exceptional. 99% of those who are admitted are not in the top 1% of applicants.
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My friend's Dad applied to MD straight out of college 25 years ago to only two schools: his state school and Harvard. No mind-blowing experiences or unique personal stories (no disrespect, he's a great guy). Got accepted to both. I'd say most accepted applicants these days would probably have the "most compelling" applications according to those standards back then.
 
Angus Avagadro said:
Most compelling ECs was an upperclassmen at my undergrad who patented the surgical stapler and sold it to Johnson and Johnson BEFORE he went to med school.
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You never mentioned how much he made and what’s he up to now 😀
 
7.5 years as an Infantry squad and team leader. Got out to become an EMT and worked for 2 years in a busy ER including 1 year of covid. Founded a university ambulance service that is free for students. Volunteer 12 hours a week on the ambulance, testing covid patients, or teaching EMRs. Has over 4,000 paid clinical hours, 1,000 volunteer hours with half being clinical volunteer. Been awarded with a veterans award for community involvement and for volunteering while on active duty. And an award from the college for doing the covid tests
 
Detailsmatter said:
I'll add one thing about Jonny Kim. Everyone should listen to his interview with Jocko Willink on YouTube. Its 4 hours long I think but it was fantastic. to see how much that man has overcome I mind boggling. he and his mother were abused by his father and it ended with police killing his dad I believe when he was graduating high school. Idk why but I assumed he didn't really serve as a SEAL (thought he just jumped from one thing to the other) but he actually "really" served and went through traumatizing stuff that led him to want to be a physician. He's just such a humble person it was just really inspiring to hear. 10/10 recommend
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This. I’ve listened to this episode maybe twice in its entirety? It’s mind boggling. This man accomplishes all this, revered as a God among us (and rightfully so), and at the end of the day he wants to go back and help his brothers on a war front wherever they are where accolades and accomplishments meet a bullet all the same.

talk about humble. Mans truly is a generational guy.
 
To the person that said there is no rush to go to medical school…yeah maybe in Northwestern Europe with no student loan debt, 40-60/hrs a week during residency, and not much difference between resident and attending salaries.

In the US, every year delayed is $50-150k less at retirement or another year working before retirement. Also, doing residency in your late twenties to early 30s is MUCH different than doing it in your mid to late 30s or even 40s.

Not saying there aren’t non-traditional that start medical school at 30+ years old and are happy, but let’s not pretend this is ideal. Everyone’s goal should be to get into medical school as soon as possible given their resume once they decide to become a doctor.

The only reason I see to delay a year or two is if you are on the cusp of being able to go MD instead of DO. That choice can have a huge impact in lifetime earnings because of the specialities available to the average to below average MD student that aren’t realistic for average to below average DO’s. And remember, half of medical students are below average.
 
Vivid_Quail said:
To the person that said there is no rush to go to medical school…yeah maybe in Northwestern Europe with no student loan debt, 40-60/hrs a week during residency, and not much difference between resident and attending salaries.

In the US, every year delayed is $50-150k less at retirement or another year working before retirement. Also, doing residency in your late twenties to early 30s is MUCH different than doing it in your mid to late 30s or even 40s.

Not saying there aren’t non-traditional that start medical school at 30+ years old and are happy, but let’s not pretend this is ideal. Everyone’s goal should be to get into medical school as soon as possible given their resume once they decide to become a doctor.

The only reason I see to delay a year or two is if you are on the cusp of being able to go MD instead of DO. That choice can have a huge impact in lifetime earnings because of the specialities available to the average to below average MD student that aren’t realistic for average to below average DO’s. And remember, half of medical students are below average.
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Well, I'm starting Med school at age 30.

I am also graduating UG debt free and intend to graduate Med school debt free as well. My parents have not subsidized any of these.

I've also traveled the world and traveled the country and done plenty of cool/interesting things and picked up plenty of skills along the way. I can cut down a tree, swap a suspension on a Jeep, or hit a target at 1000yds using ironsights.

I'll retire at 48 with a lifetime pension and health benefits.


Trust me, there is no rush. I promise you, living your life at 18 with the sole focus on how much money you will have at 70 is asking for a mid life crisis.
 
LittleBrother said:
Well, I'm starting Med school at age 30.

I am also graduating UG debt free and intend to graduate Med school debt free as well. My parents have not subsidized any of these.

I've also traveled the world and traveled the country and done plenty of cool/interesting things and picked up plenty of skills along the way. I can cut down a tree, swap a suspension on a Jeep, or hit a target at 1000yds using ironsights.

I'll retire at 48 with a lifetime pension and health benefits.


Trust me, there is no rush. I promise you, living your life at 18 with the sole focus on how much money you will have at 70 is asking for a mid life crisis.
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Like many threads you reply in, your path is the exception not the rule. Having 20 years of military service to be able to retire at 48 with health benefits after only working in medicine for <10 years is not common at all. Your story is very cool, but your anecdotes are so outside the norm that they probably will just make most premeds feel bad lol.

I never said that people can't start at medical school at 30 and be happy. I just said it is more difficult. Most people who apply to medical school at 30 were in another career but have not traveled the world, made a ton of money to do medical school and undergrad debt free, or have military experience for pension and healthcare.

Finally, maybe you don't want kids which makes starting at 30 easier. If you do want kids, doing that during medical school or residency is much harder just from a financial aspect than as an attending. Let alone the amount of free time you have.

Also what size target at 1000 yards and after how many tries? 🤣 hitting a man sized target with a good magnified optic at 1,000 yards is already very impressive, there is no need to tell a fish tale haha. What are you shooting that has iron sights but can reach out to 1,000 yards?! 5.56 is definitely not getting out that far. I guess guns in 7.62 NATO often have iron sights but I still don't believe you can constituently hit something at 1,000 yards with irons. An iron sight on a battle rifle in an intermediate caliber like 7.62 NATO is what...like 6 MOA? That is 60 inches wide at 1,000 yards. A man sized target is 18 inches wide...
 
Vivid_Quail said:
Like many threads you reply in, your path is the exception not the rule. Having 20 years of military service to be able to retire at 48 with health benefits after only working in medicine for <10 years is not common at all. Your story is very cool, but your anecdotes are so outside the norm that they probably will just make most premeds feel bad lol.

I never said that people can't start at medical school at 30 and be happy. I just said it is more difficult. Most people who apply to medical school at 30 were in another career but have not traveled the world, made a ton of money to do medical school and undergrad debt free, or have military experience for pension and healthcare.

Finally, maybe you don't want kids which makes starting at 30 easier. If you do want kids, doing that during medical school or residency is much harder just from a financial aspect than as an attending. Let alone the amount of free time you have.

Also what size target at 1000 yards and after how many tries? 🤣 hitting a man sized target with a good magnified optic at 1,000 yards is already very impressive, there is no need to tell a fish tale haha. What are you shooting that has iron sights but can reach out to 1,000 yards?! 5.56 is definitely not getting out that far. I guess guns in 7.62 NATO often have iron sights but I still don't believe you can constituently hit something at 1,000 yards with irons. An iron sight on a battle rifle in an intermediate caliber like 7.62 NATO is what...like 6 MOA? That is 60 inches wide at 1,000 yards. A man sized target is 18 inches wide...
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Yes I understand that I am far from the rule or norm but that was the point of my original post here: you don't have to be like every other premed. In fact, not being like every other premed is actually very advantageous in many cases. SDN is full of very neurotic people who live the majority of their lives as young adults just being absolutely extra when it really doesn't help (that much). Simply not thinking they need to get into med school immediately would be very helpful.

And 1000 yd any/any match I think came with 2 sighting shots? Idk - the 10 ring was about shoulder width. We shot match m16s with 77g 5.56. Don't get me wrong shooting 5.56 at that distance is not ideal (we had to aim two target points over and adjust sights from those targets b/c of wind) but it's certainly doable. Hell I even placed in the 600 yd / 1000 yd aggregate trophy at one competition.

Shooting 1000 yds iron used to actually be the standard for long distance quals. I forget when the Corps dropped down to 500 yds but I know they shot at 1000 when they were still using the 1903s. The big problem with 5.56 is that it's like twice as sensitive to wind as .308 which means a lot of quick adjusting at 1000yds.
 

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LittleBrother said:
Yes I understand that I am far from the rule or norm but that was the point of my original post here: you don't have to be like every other premed. In fact, not being like every other premed is actually very advantageous in many cases. SDN is full of very neurotic people who live the majority of their lives as young adults just being absolutely extra when it really doesn't help (that much). Simply not thinking they need to get into med school immediately would be very helpful.

And 1000 yd any/any match I think came with 2 sighting shots? Idk - the 10 ring was about shoulder width. We shot match m16s with 77g 5.56. Don't get me wrong shooting 5.56 at that distance is not ideal (we had to aim two target points over and adjust sights from those targets b/c of wind) but it's certainly doable. Hell I even placed in the 600 yd / 1000 yd aggregate trophy at one competition.
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Damn, I guess marines really are pretty good riflemen. That is impressive AF
 
Vivid_Quail said:
To the person that said there is no rush to go to medical school…yeah maybe in Northwestern Europe with no student loan debt, 40-60/hrs a week during residency, and not much difference between resident and attending salaries.

In the US, every year delayed is $50-150k less at retirement or another year working before retirement. Also, doing residency in your late twenties to early 30s is MUCH different than doing it in your mid to late 30s or even 40s.
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On the other hand, the life experiences you can have at 22 with a few dollars in your pocket are priceless and aren't easily replicated at 62 or 72. And the life experiences that you bring to your work and your engagment with others can be richer for having had a variety of life experiences outside of school before starting a long slog through medical training.
 
LizzyM said:
the life experiences you can have at 22 with a few dollars in your pocket are priceless
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Yeah that sounds nice but is idealistic and/or something rich kids say.

The vast majority of people who take a gap year or two or three are doing research, scribing, or a master's. They are making $10-15/hr or taking on more debt. Maybe get a week or two to travel if their parents give them money.

I took two gap years to boost my resume. I definitely was not having "priceless life experiences" working as a scribe for $12/hr 1099 income or spending $60k on a master's. Those two years got me into medical school so it was worth it. >90% premeds who delay medical school aren't doing something they will look back on and smile about in 40 years...it is just a means to an end.

The 1-4 weeks of travel you can realistically do during gap years or a typical 20 something corporate job, you can also do during medical school and residency.

The real time to do "cool" stuff was summers during college. I did that in the form of paid employment because that is what working class kids have available to them. Not going to say what my "cool" jobs were because they were kinda niche to the point of doxing myself.

It is also funny you say that quote above because adcoms actively look down upon people who "travel the world" for a year instead of doing research at the NIH or whatever.
 
Vivid_Quail said:
Yeah that sounds nice but is idealistic and/or something rich kids say.

The vast majority of people who take a gap year or two or three are doing research, scribing, or a master's. They are making $10-15/hr or taking on more debt. Maybe get a week or two to travel if their parents give them money.

I took two gap years to boost my resume. I definitely was not having "priceless life experiences" working as a scribe for $12/hr 1099 income or spending $60k on a master's. Those two years got me into medical school so it was worth it. >90% premeds who delay medical school aren't doing something they will look back on and smile about in 40 years...it is just a means to an end.

The 1-4 weeks of travel you can realistically do during gap years or a typical 20 something corporate job, you can also do during medical school and residency.

The real time to do "cool" stuff was summers during college. I did that in the form of paid employment because that is what working class kids have available to them. Not going to say what my "cool" jobs were because they were kinda niche to the point of doxing myself.

It is also funny you say that quote above because adcoms actively look down upon people who "travel the world" for a year instead of doing research at the NIH or whatever.
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You can do plenty of very cool and very productive things with a few gap years. Or don't even bother going to college for a while and do something cool/productive. Join the peace corps. Join an Americorps program. Join a Conservation Corps. Just go to any popular western town (Durango, Tahoe, Taos, ect) and you run into plenty of young people who are making ends meet effectively bumming it. I met people who spent years as big-wall climbers living out of their cars, or as rafting guides and dog-sledding guides, many of whom came from poor families. Plenty of people who aren't wealthy end up through-hiking the AT or PCT or doing tons of other things that are interesting, eye-opening, "unique" (for premeds), ect. Like yeah, you can't wholly ignore major components of your application to do these things, but taking a few years before or after college really won't hurt you.
 
Vivid_Quail said:
Yeah that sounds nice but is idealistic and/or something rich kids say.

The vast majority of people who take a gap year or two or three are doing research, scribing, or a master's. They are making $10-15/hr or taking on more debt. Maybe get a week or two to travel if their parents give them money.

I took two gap years to boost my resume. I definitely was not having "priceless life experiences" working as a scribe for $12/hr 1099 income or spending $60k on a master's. Those two years got me into medical school so it was worth it. >90% premeds who delay medical school aren't doing something they will look back on and smile about in 40 years...it is just a means to an end.

The 1-4 weeks of travel you can realistically do during gap years or a typical 20 something corporate job, you can also do during medical school and residency.

The real time to do "cool" stuff was summers during college. I did that in the form of paid employment because that is what working class kids have available to them. Not going to say what my "cool" jobs were because they were kinda niche to the point of doxing myself.

It is also funny you say that quote above because adcoms actively look down upon people who "travel the world" for a year instead of doing research at the NIH or whatever.
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Hey negative Nancy, take a chill pill and just admit that every person who does cool stuff in life outside of med school applications isn't an outlier. Just because you haven't had great life experiences in your gap year(s) doesn't mean everyone else isn't.
 
CricB4Tube said:
Hey negative Nancy, take a chill pill and just admit that every person who does cool stuff in life outside of med school applications isn't an outlier. Just because you haven't had great life experiences in your gap year(s) doesn't mean everyone else isn't.
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I had great life experiences during undergrad, but I guess nice attempt at trying to call me lame? Lol. I could have done similar stuff in a gap year before medical school but being a “bum” for years at best will look neutral on a med school app, most places it will set you back.
 
No one said that those years have to be bumming around or having parent-funded travel. Full-time employment for a year or two sometime between HS graduation and the start of medical school provides one with life experience that you don't get in a classroom and that helps one understand the adult-world. A one week vacation sleeping on a friend's couch or backpacking through the back country of a national park is something one does at 22 but not at 72. One's entire youth need not be spent in pursuit of an early retirement. Nothing is guaranteed us. Don't put off life until you are too old to enjoy it.
 
LizzyM said:
No one said that those years have to be bumming around or having parent-funded travel. Full-time employment for a year or two sometime between HS graduation and the start of medical school provides one with life experience that you don't get in a classroom and that helps one understand the adult-world. A one week vacation sleeping on a friend's couch or backpacking through the back country of a national park is something one does at 22 but not at 72. One's entire youth need not be spent in pursuit of an early retirement. Nothing is guaranteed us. Don't put off life until you are too old to enjoy it.
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I agree completely with all of that, now that you have added a little more clarity. You didn’t say anything about bumming it but others did.
 
A personal venture of mine was interviewing a few retired doctors undergrad. One of the them was a 3.2 English major DIII football player, who medicine was merely an afterthought.

Admittance percentage data from the 1970s is close to what it is today. Based off this, It would be valid to assume that, similar to many ventures in the US over these past years, level of competition has increased while relative competition has stayed constant.

For better or worse, us pre-meds will continue checking boxes, and reaching to levels (as deemed necessary) to be admitted.
 
dersz said:
For better or worse, us pre-meds will continue checking boxes, and reaching to levels (as deemed necessary) to be admitted.
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I think the point I am trying to make is that if you weren't a cookie-cutter applicant you wouldn't have to be the best of cookie-cutter applicant to get into med school. I got into a great program with hardly any volunteering and absolutely no research. My buddy got into a top program, no volunteering, no research. Neither of us graduated HS committed to becoming doctors. So, it's weird to us when we see folks here posting "I got X, Y, Z, president of 8 clubs, shadowing since I was 5, ect." Like, there are so many folks on here beating themselves to death trying to be quantitatively the most competitive candidate when you can actually just be qualitatively different and have a lot more fun doing it.

Like the Astronaut from Harvard. Do you think that guy joined the SEALS because he wanted to go to Med School? A lot of these ECs mentioned here are dudes from the military but you don't even have to do that. You can be a language teacher in a foreign country. You can work a trade here. Some of the folks I rubbed elbows with in my travels are big-wall climbers or dog-sledding guides. One of the folks I met at my EMT course is a mountaineering guide. Think of that, there are people who spend years essentially living out of a backpack and leading expeditions up Denali. Do you think that might be good source material for a personal statement or interviews?

I guess the big picture is that you have the option to be non-traditional and there are a lot of benefits to being non-trad. And, if you took a second to think about some of the things you might want to see or do before you committed yourself to the next 40 years of your life, you might end up on a very interesting path that would reinforce your ability to obtain a med school seat, improve your ability to handle med school, and probably improve your abilities as a physician.
 
LittleBrother said:
I think the point I am trying to make is that if you weren't a cookie-cutter applicant you wouldn't have to be the best of cookie-cutter applicant to get into med school. I got into a great program with hardly any volunteering and absolutely no research. My buddy got into a top program, no volunteering, no research. Neither of us graduated HS committed to becoming doctors. So, it's weird to us when we see folks here posting "I got X, Y, Z, president of 8 clubs, shadowing since I was 5, ect." Like, there are so many folks on here beating themselves to death trying to be quantitatively the most competitive candidate when you can actually just be qualitatively different and have a lot more fun doing it.

Like the Astronaut from Harvard. Do you think that guy joined the SEALS because he wanted to go to Med School? A lot of these ECs mentioned here are dudes from the military but you don't even have to do that. You can be a language teacher in a foreign country. You can work a trade here. Some of the folks I rubbed elbows with in my travels are big-wall climbers or dog-sledding guides. One of the folks I met at my EMT course is a mountaineering guide. Think of that, there are people who spend years essentially living out of a backpack and leading expeditions up Denali. Do you think that might be good source material for a personal statement or interviews?

I guess the big picture is that you have the option to be non-traditional and there are a lot of benefits to being non-trad. And, if you took a second to think about some of the things you might want to see or do before you committed yourself to the next 40 years of your life, you might end up on a very interesting path that would reinforce your ability to obtain a med school seat, improve your ability to handle med school, and probably improve your abilities as a physician.
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I mean to be honest, non-traditional or traditional, “cool” ECs or cookie cutter ECs, the vast majority of it comes down to GPA and MCAT. Without decent stats you aren’t getting in anywhere. If you got into a T20 school I bet your MCAT was 517+ and/or GPA 3.7+even with your military service.

You’re right that being a cookie cutter applicant isn’t the only way to get into medical school, but being “non-traditional” isn’t some secret backdoor.

Also the military is arguably the most impressive EC possible. Only other thing I can think of is professional athlete but that is much harder to obtain than enlisting. Being a welder or teaching English in Thailand is not nearly the resume booster that being an NCO in the Marines is, even though you lumped those together.

I have seen a lot of non-traditional medical students struggle who talk exactly like you do. You think that having “life experience” somehow gives you a leg up on your fellow classmates. If you can remain humble and realize that you are coming in with strengths AND weaknesses compared to a 22 year old out of undergrad, you’ll do fine. But it’s all too common for the former military or RN or paramedic or engineer for 10 years, etc to think that they know more than the average “traditional” medical student. When in reality, you might come to medical student with 1.5% the knowledge you need to graduate whereas “traditional” students have like 1%.
 
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Vivid_Quail said:
I mean to be honest, non-traditional or traditional, “cool” ECs or cookie cutter ECs, the vast majority of it comes down to GPA and MCAT. Without decent stats you aren’t getting in anywhere. If you got into a T20 school I bet your MCAT was 517+ and/or GPA 3.7+even with your military service.

You’re right that being a cookie cutter applicant isn’t the only way to get into medical school, but being “non-traditional” isn’t some secret backdoor.

Also the military is arguably the most impressive EC possible. Only other thing I can think of is professional athlete but that is much harder to obtain than enlisting. Being a welder or teaching English in Thailand is not nearly the resume booster that being an NCO in the Marines is, even though you lumped those together.
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You are correct, MCAT and GPA are very important.

However, getting a good GPA and MCAT is much "easier" as a functioning adult than it is as as a kid fresh out of High School. College was an adjustment for me but it was hardly the same adjustment as most kids finding themselves on their own for the first time. Similarly, because I already had very strong ECs I could also just focus on school to a much greater degree.

Joining the military, I think, is one of the best things you can do and hardly unapproachable. I don't understand the reticence most people have with it. I pursued experience so I joined the infantry and got the "classic military" but if you are smart enough for med school you are smart enough for jobs like Intel, aviation electronics ect. However, I didn't want to make it seem like you had to join the military.

There are also financial incentives to just getting a skill and a job. At age 24 you don't fall under your parents FAFSA. If you are really smart at commited, you could do something like join the military, pay for undergrad with grants and scholarships, and then use your GI bill for Med School.

Lastly, a lot of these things are just fun and you will never get as much a chance to do them again. Why not go hike the PCT if it gives you something interesting and worldly to talk about, if you think it's fun, and if it's only going to set you apart in a competitive application process?
 
Vivid_Quail said:
Johnny Kim is the easy answer. He:
  • enlisted as a Navy SEAL out of high school
  • Deployed twice to Iraq
  • Silver Star, Bronze Star Medal (with Combat "V"), the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal (with Combat "V"), and Combat Action Ribbon recipient
  • Earned his commission as a naval officer
  • Graduated UC San Diego summa cum laude as a math major (not technically an EC but fun to mention it because that means his GPA was at least 3.9+ in a math degree...like wtf)
Turns out this mediocre resume was enough to get him into Harvard Medical School.

After med school, he was selected to become a NASA astronaut and is currently training to land on the moon in 2024. So maybe the Navy and Harvard where right to see some potential in him.

Edit: he is also handsome
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This man is the real life Captain America.
 
Vivid_Quail said:
Yeah that sounds nice but is idealistic and/or something rich kids say.

The vast majority of people who take a gap year or two or three are doing research, scribing, or a master's. They are making $10-15/hr or taking on more debt. Maybe get a week or two to travel if their parents give them money.

I took two gap years to boost my resume. I definitely was not having "priceless life experiences" working as a scribe for $12/hr 1099 income or spending $60k on a master's. Those two years got me into medical school so it was worth it. >90% premeds who delay medical school aren't doing something they will look back on and smile about in 40 years...it is just a means to an end.

The 1-4 weeks of travel you can realistically do during gap years or a typical 20 something corporate job, you can also do during medical school and residency.

The real time to do "cool" stuff was summers during college. I did that in the form of paid employment because that is what working class kids have available to them. Not going to say what my "cool" jobs were because they were kinda niche to the point of doxing myself.

It is also funny you say that quote above because adcoms actively look down upon people who "travel the world" for a year instead of doing research at the NIH or whatever.
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Wrong, wrong, wrong!
Travelling the world on your parents' dime isn't the only "priceless life experience" you can have.
Working, learning who you are, falling in love, helping others by volunteering or just caring...these are priceless, too.
Don't forget, many of us take/took gap years because we needed to earn money before we could apply to medical school. Gap years aren't just for rich kids to travel the world or do an SMP.
 
Vivid_Quail said:
Yeah that sounds nice but is idealistic and/or something rich kids say.

The vast majority of people who take a gap year or two or three are doing research, scribing, or a master's. They are making $10-15/hr or taking on more debt. Maybe get a week or two to travel if their parents give them money.

I took two gap years to boost my resume. I definitely was not having "priceless life experiences" working as a scribe for $12/hr 1099 income or spending $60k on a master's. Those two years got me into medical school so it was worth it. >90% premeds who delay medical school aren't doing something they will look back on and smile about in 40 years...it is just a means to an end.

The 1-4 weeks of travel you can realistically do during gap years or a typical 20 something corporate job, you can also do during medical school and residency.

The real time to do "cool" stuff was summers during college. I did that in the form of paid employment because that is what working class kids have available to them. Not going to say what my "cool" jobs were because they were kinda niche to the point of doxing myself.

It is also funny you say that quote above because adcoms actively look down upon people who "travel the world" for a year instead of doing research at the NIH or whatever.
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I agree.
Most of the gap year students I know do it for their resumes. Time spent on masters to impress adcoms. And don't even try to argue they come in with another skillset. They major in biomedical science or something med related to give them a leg up in medical school.

But I understand what they are saying. If I could do all this again, I would've went into a field like nursing or computer science, graduate, and make some real money, spend my youth, then go to medical school. No way I would spend a few years working as a scribe making pennies
 
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