Most competitive residencies?

[mikedc813]

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Did you know that the average accepted rad-onc student has 6 research presentations/publications?

I certainly didn't have 6, you're right that research is one of the most important things when applying to rad onc. If you're thinking about rad onc even as a first or second year student start a research project NOW!!!!!

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Did you know that the average accepted rad-onc student has 6 research presentations/publications?

That NRMP statistic is really worthless. 6 research presentations/publications span a vast range of research experience and can be anything from 6 first author Nature articles to 6 fourth authors in conference abstracts.

 

[rvarsity]

What would you say the top 5-10 are?

How about radiology, otolaryngology, and ophthalmology?

You have to split these up based on if you're a "surgical type" or "non-surgical type". This is my based on my limited experience and not on any hard numbers...

Surgical

1. Plastics (direct)
2=3. Neurosurg/Ortho Surg.
4. ENT

Optho? Ha, optho is NOT competitive. 4/6 people in my class that matched optho were bottom 1/3rd and max 220 range.

Non Surg

1. Derm
2. Rad Onc
3. Radiology (this is a distant third)

This is only considering matching into University programs - not community programs.

 

[Plue00]

bump 😴

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Optho? Ha, optho is NOT competitive. 4/6 people in my class that matched optho were bottom 1/3rd and max 220 range.

Nice anecdotal evidence.

 

[gluon999]

Optho? Ha, optho is NOT competitive. 4/6 people in my class that matched optho were bottom 1/3rd and max 220 range.

Thanks for the info, but the avg. optho match score for the last cycle was 232 and avg. score of those who didn't match was 212, which renders your statistics useless.

 

[mikedc813]

Yes, opHtho is competitive

 

[badasshairday]

I wish Optho wasn't competitive... So I would have a better chance of doing it! 🙂

 

[BrianUM]

ophtho is cool and and all but it is true that the lay public thinks ophthalmologist and optometrist are the same thing and neurosurgeon and neurologist are the same thing...plus i cant go through med school just to focus on the eye, but more power to you, we need opthalmologists.

 

[mikedc813]

I wish Optho wasn't competitive... So I would have a better chance of doing it! 🙂

If you want it bad enough, go all out and work your butt off to get it. That's what I did for rad onc. I didn't think I had a shot, but things worked out because I put in the work and made the right connections. You don't have to be the smartest and have the highest scores to match into something competitive. There's a lot to be said for showing motivation and interest too.

 

[Plue00]

😴

 

[badasshairday]

If you want it bad enough, go all out and work your butt off to get it. That's what I did for rad onc. I didn't think I had a shot, but things worked out because I put in the work and made the right connections. You don't have to be the smartest and have the highest scores to match into something competitive. There's a lot to be said for showing motivation and interest too.

👍 Thanks.

 

[DrNicholas]

Research was mentioned and my question is do research projects have to be relevant to the residency you're shooting for? I'm an M1 and don't have a clear idea of what I might want a couple of years down the road. I'm leaning towards neurosurg or plastics but even that might change. What field can I do research in at this point? I would want to do something that would enhance my record overall and not only be applicable to a specific residency. Could I do research in neuro for example and still be competitive for plastics? I have two publications in neurosurgery from undergrad by the way, so neuro would seem like a logical continuation but I wouldn't mind exploring other areas too.

 

[howelljolly]

Research whatever you want. Be sure that the experience is worthwhile. Its more of an indication of a comittment to academics and competency in relevent research projects in the future

 

[ToldYouSo]

Form what I see, the most competitive fields are the lifestyle fields, they are called the R.O.A.D. to happiness. Radiology, Ophthalmology, Anesthesia and Dermatology. Better pay, less emergencies and prestige all factor in.

 

[JeffLebowski]

Form what I see, the most competitive fields are the lifestyle fields, they are called the R.O.A.D. to happiness. Radiology, Ophthalmology, Anesthesia and Dermatology. Better pay, less emergencies and prestige all factor in.

....you win the award for the smallest contribution to this thread. 1/2 the specialties you listed (radiology and anesthesia) should in no way be considered of the "most competitive". And the whole "ROAD specialties" thing is already pretty much universally known but outdated and now obsolete.

 

[Ashers]

....you win the award for the smallest contribution to this thread. 1/2 the specialties you listed (radiology and anesthesia) should in no way be considered of the "most competitive". And the whole "ROAD specialties" thing is already pretty much universally known but outdated and now obsolete.

Be easy on him... looks like he's in high school. 🙄

All I knew in high school was that I wasn't going to go to medical school let alone ortho... shows how much high schoolers know. 😉

 

[mikedc813]

Research was mentioned and my question is do research projects have to be relevant to the residency you're shooting for? I'm an M1 and don't have a clear idea of what I might want a couple of years down the road. I'm leaning towards neurosurg or plastics but even that might change. What field can I do research in at this point? I would want to do something that would enhance my record overall and not only be applicable to a specific residency. Could I do research in neuro for example and still be competitive for plastics? I have two publications in neurosurgery from undergrad by the way, so neuro would seem like a logical continuation but I wouldn't mind exploring other areas too.

Research in the field you eventually apply for will obviously help you more, but if you're not sure what you want to do yet research in any field is better than nothing. I know people who matched into rad onc without any rad onc research, but with publications in other fields. Keep in mind that without a finished product like a presentation or publication, any research you do means very little to nothing in the eyes of program directors.

 

[mikedc813]

Form what I see, the most competitive fields are the lifestyle fields, they are called the R.O.A.D. to happiness. Radiology, Ophthalmology, Anesthesia and Dermatology. Better pay, less emergencies and prestige all factor in.

I agree that lifestyle is a big factor, which isn't a bad thing. But I don't think I would say that your ROAD specialties are the MOST competitive....

 

[Long Dong]

I agree that lifestyle is a big factor, which isn't a bad thing. But I don't think I would say that your ROAD specialties are the MOST competitive....

Okay forget the ROAD it's all about the DROP on the most competitive specialties.

Derm
Rad Onc
Plastics

There you have the most competitive hands down. Derm where AOA or 260+ can't guaruntee you a spot. Rad Onc to many dam PhDs applying so you better publish something. Plastics you better be a stud in all aspects and look good in sleevless scrubs.😀

 

[Plue00]

😴😴😴😴

 

[Plue00]

bump 🙂🙂

 

[scrubswannabe]

possible to match into these without research?

i did research in undergrad and hated it and don't want to do it in medical school

i know for rad onc no research seems to mean you don't have a shot, but what about the other specialties?

 

[gluon999]

possible to match into these without research?

i did research in undergrad and hated it and don't want to do it in medical school

i know for rad onc no research seems to mean you don't have a shot, but what about the other specialties?

Not having research for these top fields will definitely put you at a disadvantage, even if you have stellar scores, because you will be competing against a whole lot of people who are like you, but also have research and publications.

 

[WellWornLad]

possible to match into these without research?

For the love of God, why is your first criteria for residency competitiveness? Can't you just use hot wax like all the other masochists?

 

[Taliesinrk]

can anyone tell me how much your step 1 and 2 scores affect fellowship placement out of internal medicine? furthermore, is there anywhere to see what the average scores are for those who placed into heme/onc or cardio?

 

[RxnMan]

can anyone tell me how much your step 1 and 2 scores affect fellowship placement out of internal medicine? furthermore, is there anywhere to see what the average scores are for those who placed into heme/onc or cardio?

Amazingly, I've been told by residents and fellows that Step I-III scores actually affect fellowship placement. (why don't they focus on more recent markers of performance like in-training exam or ABIM board scores?) Look in the IM residency forum (scroll down main page) for info on stats and how big these effects are.

 

[Tired]

Hi I was wondering if anyone knew of anybody that is taking the step 2 cs? I need a study partner in the NY tristate area. Please give me a call my number is 19142079882
and I am looking for a step 2 cs partner to study with.
I know my stuff and Ive covered first aid and UW.
later
If you can fwd this to anyone that needs a partner as well I'll greatly appreciate it

Um . . . did you just post your phone number on the internet?

 

[gluon999]

um . . . Did you just post your phone number on the internet?

fail!

 

[VincentAdultman]

Hi I was wondering if anyone knew of anybody that is taking the step 2 cs? I need a study partner in the NY tristate area. Please give me a call my number is 19142079882
and I am looking for a step 2 cs partner to study with.
I know my stuff and Ive covered first aid and UW.
later
If you can fwd this to anyone that needs a partner as well I'll greatly appreciate it

Maybe you should include your address and adressess of some of your closest loved ones just to make sure you get enough replies.

Also, a list of your worst fears would be nice too.

 

[Plue00]

🙂

 

[mikedc813]

Amazingly, I've been told by residents and fellows that Step I-III scores actually affect fellowship placement. (why don't they focus on more recent markers of performance like in-training exam or ABIM board scores?) Look in the IM residency forum (scroll down main page) for info on stats and how big these effects are.

I can't see Step I/II scores having any effect. Step III scores maybe. Research and letters of rec are much more important for fellowship applications.

 

[Plue00]

bump

 

[Pinkertinkle]

bump

I'm just going to divide it into two tiers:
Tier I
Integrated plastics, dermatology, rad onc, otolaryngology, urology, neurosurgery, radiology, orthopedics, ophthalmology.

Tier II
IM, peds, gen surg, gas, fp, ob, emergency, psych, pmr, path

 

[WellWornLad]

Did you know that the average accepted rad-onc student has 6 research presentations/publications?

Can anyone tell me how they count research publications in averages such as these? Are they first author only, or anything you've got your name on? Do they lump in posters with publications, or do you have to actually give a presentation at a conference?

 

[howelljolly]

no way. EM and gas are not in the same level of competitiveness as Psych and PM&R

 

[meister]

Can anyone tell me how they count research publications in averages such as these? Are they first author only, or anything you've got your name on? Do they lump in posters with publications, or do you have to actually give a presentation at a conference?

Rad onc is kind of a special case, considering something like 25% of US MDs that match have PhDs.

 

[howelljolly]

Rad onc is kind of a special case, considering something like 25% of US MDs that match have PhDs.

AI is similar... very few seats, and strong research pathways.

 

[JeffLebowski]

AI is similar... very few seats, and strong research pathways.

...Allen Iverson?

 

[MSKalltheway]

no way. EM and gas are not in the same level of competitiveness as Psych and PM&R

Maybe not, but for all intents and purposes p-tink's categories are largely true. You can get away with matching in his "tier 2" by being an average (or lower) student in any of those specialties.

 

[RxnMan]

I'm just going to divide it into two tiers:
Tier I
Integrated plastics, dermatology, rad onc, otolaryngology, urology, neurosurgery, radiology, orthopedics, ophthalmology.

Tier II
IM, peds, gen surg, gas, fp, ob, emergency, psych, pmr, path

I disagree. The curves show much more of a three tier system than a simple two tier. Look at Charting Outcomes pages 8 and 16.

Look at the length of ROLs +/- magic numbers, too. In Path, you can get away with a ROL of 4 (23/24 matched), and in EM you need 8-10 (359/373 matched). The top tier would require more, but they are further limited by total number of programs.

Can anyone tell me how they count research publications in averages such as these? Are they first author only, or anything you've got your name on? Do they lump in posters with publications, or do you have to actually give a presentation at a conference?

They likely look at the headings applying seniors use when filling out their ERAS.

 

[RxnMan]

...Allen Iverson?

Allergy and Immuno? (yes I know it's a fellowship but it's all I got)

Maybe not, but for all intents and purposes p-tink's categories are largely true. You can get away with matching in his "tier 2" by being an average (or lower) student in any of those specialties.

This is an incorrect comparison. You're lumping the prospects of two groups together (below average and average), so of course you're going to get 2 tiers 🙄

 

[howelljolly]

Allergy and Immuno? (yes I know it's a fellowship but it's all I got)

This is an incorrect comparison. You're lumping the prospects of two groups together (below average and average), so of course you're going to get 2 tiers 🙄

There are some direct residencies... Med prelim to PGY-2 Allergy Immuno

But there are all sorts of special programs, which are super-competitive (like cardiology fast tracks which are still classified under IM in the NRMP report), so I shouldnt have brought that up.

 

[gluon999]

There are some direct residencies... Med prelim to PGY-2 Allergy Immuno

But there are all sorts of special programs, which are super-competitive (like cardiology fast tracks which are still classified under IM in the NRMP report), so I shouldnt have brought that up.

Cardio fast tracks? 5 yrs? Which programs u talkin' bout?

 

[Pinkertinkle]

I disagree. The curves show much more of a three tier system than a simple two tier. Look at Charting Outcomes pages 8 and 16.

OB FP PMR and Psych are probably less competitive then the rest on the tier II, but it would be mean to call them out.

 

[RxnMan]

OB FP PMR and Psych are probably less competitive then the rest on the tier II, but it would be mean to call them out.

Accurate portrayal of reality =/= meaness

 

[RxnMan]

Cardio fast tracks? 5 yrs? Which programs u talkin' bout?

ABIM Research Tracks allow for 2 yrs of IM, 3 yrs of lab work, and advanced placement in a fellowship. Fellowship time is not shortened, and so cards would be 2 + 3 + 2. The advantage is in earlier research work and a guaranteed fellowship spot.

 

[gluon999]

ABIM Research Tracks allow for 2 yrs of IM, 3 yrs of lab work, and advanced placement in a fellowship. Fellowship time is not shortened, and so cards would be 2 + 3 + 2. The advantage is in earlier research work and a guaranteed fellowship spot.

Don't know why anyone would want to do that especially since some schools offer a "guaranteed" cards spot to their students who commit to IM + cards after they graduate, assuming that they will commit to research at that school after they are done with cards. So instead of slaving away in lab for 3 years for a resident's pay, they would be doing research and getting cardio money.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Very/rather competitive residencies and fellowships, in no particular order:

plastics
dermatology
neurosurgery
radiation oncology
radiology
anesthesiology
emergency medicine
cardiology
gastroenterology
allergy and immunology
hematology/oncology
orthopedic surgery
urology
otorhinolaryngology
ophthalmology

Seeing as how certain fellowships out of IM/peds are very competitive (cardiology, GI, and AI being the most), people who envision themselves as specialists should strive to have research, excellent board scores, and great rotation grades (perhaps comparable with those planning to go into the ultracompetitive residencies), since these will factor into fellowship applications.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Very/rather competitive residencies and fellowships, in no particular order:

plastics
dermatology
neurosurgery
radiation oncology
radiology
anesthesiology
emergency medicine
cardiology
gastroenterology
allergy and immunology
hematology/oncology
orthopedic surgery
urology
otorhinolaryngology
ophthalmology

Seeing as how certain fellowships out of IM/peds are very competitive (cardiology, GI, and AI being the most), people who envision themselves as specialists should strive to have research, excellent board scores, and great rotation grades (perhaps comparable with those planning to go into the ultracompetitive residencies), since these will factor into fellowship applications.

anesthesiology and em do not belong on that list.