Most competitive residencies?

[howelljolly]

---

Members don't see this ad.

anesthesiology and em do not belong on that list.

I totally disagree. They are VERY competitive. They may not have the highest board scores of the bunch, but there are other factors that make them selective.

For EM, many programs put more weight on Step2 than on step 1. They put a lot of weight on clinical grades and the EM rotation. You also 'need' to obtain good SLORS from academic EM faculty. People tend not to apply if they dont have all of the pre-reqs in order, and so theres a self-selection bias in the numbers.

Ansethesia? Maybe its on the downswing, but try to apply as a non-traditional student. You're sunk.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

I totally disagree. They are VERY competitive. They may not have the highest board scores of the bunch, but there are other factors that make them selective.

For EM, many programs put more weight on Step2 than on step 1. They put a lot of weight on clinical grades and the EM rotation. You also 'need' to obtain good SLORS from academic EM faculty. People tend not to apply if they dont have all of the pre-reqs in order, and so theres a self-selection bias in the numbers.

Ansethesia? Maybe its on the downswing, but try to apply as a non-traditional student. You're sunk.

Disagree, EM avg step 2 score is 228, same as gen surg and same as IM. (see charting outcomes chart 11) In addition almost every specialty puts a lot of emphasis on LOR's from that specialty as well as acting internship in that specialty. EM is no different. As for clinical grades, AOA percentage for EM is lower than that for IM and same as that for gen surg. EM (and Gas) are no harder to match into than gen surg or internal medicine. I wont even get started with anesthesiology and the plethora of spots available. Either way neither belong in the top tier of competitive residencies.

 

[RxnMan]

Disagree, EM avg step 2 score is 228, same as gen surg and same as IM. (see charting outcomes chart 11) In addition almost every specialty puts a lot of emphasis on LOR's from that specialty as well as acting internship in that specialty. EM is no different. As for clinical grades, AOA percentage for EM is lower than that for IM and same as that for gen surg. EM (and Gas) are no harder to match into than gen surg or internal medicine. I wont even get started with anesthesiology and the plethora of spots available. Either way neither belong in the top tier of competitive residencies.

I don't think anyone is arguing EM (or IM, Anes, G surg, for that matter) should be classified as highly competitive. These 4 all are roughly as competitive as each other (by Step score, ROL, LORs, grades, etc.), but definitely more so than FM, Psych, PM&R, and OB, +/- Peds.

Thus, 3 tiers.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

I don't think anyone is arguing EM (or IM, Anes, G surg, for that matter) should be classified as highly competitive. These 4 all are roughly as competitive as each other (by Step score, ROL, LORs, grades, etc.), but definitely more so than FM, Psych, PM&R, and OB, +/- Peds.

Thus, 3 tiers.

I think howelljolly is arguing that EM belongs up there with rads and ortho because of a certain je ne sais quoi.

 

[ToldYouSo]

anesthesiology and em do not belong on that list.

The ROAD to happiness Radiology Ophthalmology Anesthesia and Dermatology.
Anesthesia has access to more technology and has more controllable hours, not to mention salaries commonly in 300-400k range.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

The ROAD to happiness Radiology Ophthalmology Anesthesia and Dermatology.
Anesthesia has access to more technology and has more controllable hours, not to mention salaries commonly in 300-400k range.

Your information is out of date.

 

[gluon999]

Your information is out of date.

cut him a break...he is still working on them SATs.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

cut him a break...he is still working on them SATs.

And he does get a lotta cred for spelling ophthalmology right, something that 50% of physicians are unable to do.

 

[JeffLebowski]

The ROAD to happiness Radiology Ophthalmology Anesthesia and Dermatology.
Anesthesia has access to more technology and has more controllable hours, not to mention salaries commonly in 300-400k range.

Goddamnit, you posted this 40 posts ago practically verbatim on this very thread. It was wrong then and shockingly enough, it's still wrong now.

 

[WellWornLad]

What the hell is "access to more technology" supposed to mean, anyway? Unless it means you can gas your patients from home with a reliable internet connection, it seems like a pretty ridiculous point.

Do keep us up to date on your SAT scores, however.

 

[howelljolly]

I think howelljolly is arguing that EM belongs up there with rads and ortho because of a certain je ne sais quoi.

No, no, im not saying EM belongs up there with radonc and derm... Im saying it absolutely doesnt belong with PM&R and Psych...

so like rxnman said... 3 tiers are more appropriate

 

[Pinkertinkle]

No, no, im not saying EM belongs up there with radonc and derm... Im saying it absolutely doesnt belong with PM&R and Psych...

so like rxnman said... 3 tiers are more appropriate

But you disagreed with my saying EM and gas don't belong in the same list as:

plastics
dermatology
neurosurgery
radiation oncology
radiology
orthopedic surgery
urology
otorhinolaryngology
ophthalmology

So you agree that those two do not?
Also you say they are VERY competitive but being in the middle tier as it were they'd be of average competitiveness.

 

[howelljolly]

Im so confused...

I'd say

Teir1... rads, radonc, neurosurg, plastics, ortho, uro, optho, oto (+/- gas)

Tier2. IM, EM, GS, Peds, neuro, path(nowadays)

Teir3... FP, Psych, PMR

And i should have said 'can be very'... though that goes for everything... MGH-IM, and Duke-psych are more competitive than some Rads programs

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Im so confused...

I'd say

Teir1... rads, radonc, neurosurg, plastics, ortho, uro, optho, oto (+/- gas)

Tier2. IM, EM, GS, Peds, neuro, path(nowadays)

Teir3... FP, Psych, PMR

And i should have said 'can be very'... though that goes for everything... MGH-IM, and Duke-psych are more competitive than some Rads programs

What is so confusing? Someone posted a list of competitive residencies which had EM and gas along with all the hard ones I just listed. I said EM and gas don't belong on there, you said you totally disagreed.

 

[howelljolly]

What is so confusing? Someone posted a list of competitive residencies which had EM and gas along with all the hard ones I just listed. I said EM and gas don't belong on there, you said you totally disagreed.

On second thought... I dont know.... I guess it depends on the program... and I also know for myself, and quite a few other people Ive met... I can make it into a good IM program, but chances are slim for making it into EM.... and these two fields are what Im deciding between. How do I know.... because people who apply to both fields get plenty more interviews with the IM programs than EM.

Honestly, I really dont know
In my own meandering experence, it seems easier to get interview with IM than EM on the same CV.

 

[meister]

Yeah gas is not in a good place right now, not exactly hot off the presses.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

On second thought... I dont know.... I guess it depends on the program... and I also know for myself, and quite a few other people Ive met... I can make it into a good IM program, but chances are slim for making it into EM.... and these two fields are what Im deciding between. How do I know.... because people who apply to both fields get plenty more interviews with the IM programs than EM.

Honestly, I really dont know
In my own meandering experence, it seems easier to get interview with IM than EM on the same CV.

I trust the statistical evidence.

 

[badasshairday]

Yeah gas is not in a good place right now, not exactly hot off the presses.

huh? what do you mean by that?😕

Gas is the BEST!




at least in my opinion.

 

[meister]

huh? what do you mean by that?😕

Gas is the BEST!

Hey don't get me wrong, it seems like a sweet specialty. I was just referring to the turf war with CRNAs and the fact that MDs only gas like 40% of patients. It's just another theatre in the war with advanced practice nurses.

 

[howelljolly]

Hey don't get me wrong, it seems like a sweet specialty. I was just referring to the turf war with CRNAs and the fact that MDs only gas like 40% of patients. It's just another theatre in the war with advanced practice nurses.

I think if you are willing to subspecialize, (peds, CT, neuro) you'll have a pretty clear playing field. Also, theres always the "complicated" cases that CRNAs dont do... such as the garden variety lap chole, but the pt. has a tracheal anomaly.

 

[badasshairday]

I think if you are willing to subspecialize, (peds, CT, neuro) you'll have a pretty clear playing field. Also, theres always the "complicated" cases that CRNAs dont do... such as the garden variety lap chole, but the pt. has a tracheal anomaly.

Yep. In residency, from what I have heard, the CRNAs give breaks to residents so the residents can go check out more complicated and interesting cases. CRNAs do more of the run of the mill things.

But at the same time, meister is correct. They are in the middle of a turf war because some CRNAs think they can be independent and do it all. It is a classic case of mid-level provider not knowing their limit.

 

[chk]

These integrated vascular surgery programs are popping up, now there's 15 programs with total 16 spots in the country. Saw some of the board scores 250+ (range 220-265)

 

[tbo]

These integrated vascular surgery programs are popping up, now there's 15 programs with total 16 spots in the country. Saw some of the board scores 250+ (range 220-265)

MGH is moving to a 5/0 as well.

 

[howelljolly]

These integrated vascular surgery programs are popping up, now there's 15 programs with total 16 spots in the country. Saw some of the board scores 250+ (range 220-265)

thats it? wow.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

thats it? wow.

Seems like plenty to me. I don't think we need very many integrated vascular surgery programs.

 

[Blesbok]

I didn't know they had started integrated vascular programs. I think that is a great subspecialty to start an integrated program though.

 

[MrBurns10]

On second thought... I dont know.... I guess it depends on the program... and I also know for myself, and quite a few other people Ive met... I can make it into a good IM program, but chances are slim for making it into EM.... and these two fields are what Im deciding between. How do I know.... because people who apply to both fields get plenty more interviews with the IM programs than EM.

Honestly, I really dont know
In my own meandering experence, it seems easier to get interview with IM than EM on the same CV.

Well, I think that makes sense...IM programs are going to interview a lot more people because they have a lot more spots than EM programs. So it'll generally be easier to get an IM interview than an EM interview. As far as match rates go, I don't know how different they are, but I would agree that EM is a little more competitive overall than IM.

 

[howelljolly]

Troll around the EM forum for a while, you'll see how many people are worried about not getting a spot, "what are my chances" etc. Its not just me.

 

[LadyWolverine]

Gas is the BEST!

This made me LOL.

 

[Blesbok]

Troll around the EM forum for a while, you'll see how many people are worried about not getting a spot, "what are my chances" etc. Its not just me.

That is going to be pretty much any residency other than internal medicine, peds, ob/gyn, or psych.

 

[JeffLebowski]

That is going to be pretty much any residency other than internal medicine, peds, ob/gyn, or psych.

Yeah, it gets old seeing DO's & IMG's constantly asking this.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Ansethesia? Maybe its on the downswing, but try to apply as a non-traditional student. You're sunk.

Really? This is our standard for a "competitive" residency?

 

[Re3iRtH]

What the hell is "access to more technology" supposed to mean, anyway? Unless it means you can gas your patients from home with a reliable internet connection, it seems like a pretty ridiculous point.

Do keep us up to date on your SAT scores, however.

I'm laughing really hard at this post right now 👍