Most Competitive Specialities

[nir1009]

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Can anyone rank the competitiveness of these specialities:

Radiology
Dermatology
Pathology
Anesthesiology
Opthalmology

Also, what kind of step 1 scores and class rank would be needed for each? Thanks.

 

[mpp]

A lot depends on the actual program but in general from most to least:

Dermatology
Ophthalmology
Radiology
Anesthesiology
Pathology

 

[GoPistons]

general rule: The % FMG represented in any field is inversely correlated with its competitiveness... so you can look on the nrmp tables to figure out what is and isn't competitive...

I agree with the above...

 

[miamidc]

A lot depends on the actual program but in general from most to least:

Dermatology
Ophthalmology
Radiology
Anesthesiology
Pathology

I agree, but look for anesthesiology to be in the top 3 real soon

 

[waterski232002]

I would say anesthesia still lags pretty far behind the first 3

 

[DW3843]

this is pretty helpful

http://www.nrmp.org/2006advdata.pdf

 

[skypilot]

There are about 1300 anesthesia spots versus about 300 derm spots. There are just too many positions to lock you out if you really want to be an anesthesiologist. 🙂

 

[JackBauERfan]

A lot depends on the actual program but in general from most to least:

Dermatology
Ophthalmology
Radiology
Anesthesiology
Pathology

A reason for path to be on the list? Sure all the top programs are competitive no matter what field, but my impression was many path spots go unfilled every year.....but yeah I agree with this list, and not sure if anesthesiology can take over rads anytime soon.

 

[Zummy]

According to that NRMP link, Gen Surg was up there this year too, no?

 

[analu]

must add plastics and rad onc, although the applicant pools of these are self-selected for the type of people wanting to do a 5-7 year surgical residency or people with serious research under their belts.

can competitiveness be measured in other ways besides unfilled numbers, number of imgs filling spots, applicant-to-position ratios, etc?

scenario: say you met 10 derm applicants with a healthy number of interviews (meaning they are in demand by derm programs = competitive). how would those 10 measure up against 10 radiology applicants or 10 ophtho applicants or 10 plastics applicants, all who have lots of interviews in their respective specialties? which group would come out on top? and wouldn't this be a good measure of the level of competition an applicant would face if she/he were applying to that specialty?

 

[southerndoc]

According to that NRMP link, Gen Surg was up there this year too, no?

Only 1 categorical spot wasn't matched in the entire country. Pretty impressive if you ask me.

 

[JackBauERfan]

must add plastics and rad onc, although the applicant pools of these are self-selected for the type of people wanting to do a 5-7 year surgical residency or people with serious research under their belts.

can competitiveness be measured in other ways besides unfilled numbers, number of imgs filling spots, applicant-to-position ratios, etc?

scenario: say you met 10 derm applicants with a healthy number of interviews (meaning they are in demand by derm programs = competitive). how would those 10 measure up against 10 radiology applicants or 10 ophtho applicants or 10 plastics applicants, all who have lots of interviews in their respective specialties? which group would come out on top? and wouldn't this be a good measure of the level of competition an applicant would face if she/he were applying to that specialty?

I agree, self selection is important part of it too. I think the question is not best answered by unfilled versus filled. But the ones OP mentioned I think the order that the next poster gave was about right, but what do I know haah. yeah, I think plastics and rad onc are more.

 

[cdql]

I would agree with that. Integrated plastics, in particular, is probably the most competitive residency to get into!

 

[Mirror Form]

Is anesthesia really that competitive? The anesthesia residents always say that it is. But most applicants don't seem to be at the top of their class, and aren't even close to as competitive as the ENT, urology, gen surg, ophtho, rads, rad onc, derm etc applicants.

 

[cdql]

My guess is yes because it is also a lifestyle field similar to the other specialties that you mentioned.

Being able to pick the hours that one works is becoming increasingly desired!

 

[usnavdoc]

Is anesthesia really that competitive? The anesthesia residents always say that it is. But most applicants don't seem to be at the top of their class, and aren't even close to as competitive as the ENT, urology, gen surg, ophtho, rads, rad onc, derm etc applicants.

Id say Anesthesiology is about like EM maybe more so to a degree. There was already a thread a few weeks back thaqt went all through this stuff.

But in your list you need to take Gen Surg off. Its just not as competitive as the others("ENT, urology, gen surg, ophtho, rads, rad onc, derm etc") despite this years match profiles. All that means is that they had a popular cycle it tells you nothing about self selection or avg boards. Id say the avg USMLE score of anesthesia is higher than gen surg.

But in reality this topic doesnt really matter outside of med school. Congrats to everyone who matched and have fun in internship lol

 

[Plastikos]

must add plastics and rad onc, although the applicant pools of these are self-selected for the type of people wanting to do a 5-7 year surgical residency or people with serious research under their belts.

can competitiveness be measured in other ways besides unfilled numbers, number of imgs filling spots, applicant-to-position ratios, etc?

scenario: say you met 10 derm applicants with a healthy number of interviews (meaning they are in demand by derm programs = competitive). how would those 10 measure up against 10 radiology applicants or 10 ophtho applicants or 10 plastics applicants, all who have lots of interviews in their respective specialties? which group would come out on top? and wouldn't this be a good measure of the level of competition an applicant would face if she/he were applying to that specialty?

Plastics apps of course. As for the real issue, there are way too many anesthesia positions for it to be THAT competitive (flame suit buttoned....check), by that i mean if you truly want a position (willing to go anywhere) you can get one.

In terms of competitiveness i think of it kinda like this: (i will forgot some)

Plastics
RadOnc...does any field self select more, interesting topic there..?
Derm
ENT
Uro
Optho

-all competitive with very limited positions to boot.

Ortho
Rads
Gas
EM
Gsurg

-moderate competiveness, more market dependent, but all have large number of overall positions and you would likely match if you were willing and applied wisely. Plus all had unfilled positions, some way more than you would guess by the hype they get.

IDK, others


Flame on, and Fight ON!

P.S.-Wow, i just checked out the above stats link and this one comparing the specialties.

http://www.aamc.org/programs/eras/programs/statistics/residency/radonco.htm

Thank god i didnt look at that crap before applying!

 

[bigfrank]

I'm not thinking Ophtho is as competitive as people tend to think it is.

 

[Gyric]

The percentage of US seniors matched is an alternative measure (http://residency.wustl.edu/) of competitiveness:

for 2005,
Derm 57% matched
Rads 78% matched
Optho 86% matched
Path 88% matched
Anes 90% matched

 

[analu]

plastikos, i've been thinking about plastics vs. derm, and i wonder if i would face stiffer competition from the hypothetical 10 successful plastics applicants i talked about earlier, or if the 10 successful derm applicants would be a more “formidable” group when vying for those few precious residency positions.

let me play devil’s advocate: 1) male applicants outnumber female applicants in plastics 2-3 to 1. 2) many outstanding applicants interested in surgery opt for ortho or ent, rather than plastics. 3) in derm, female applicants outnumber male applicants 3 to 2. 4) PERHAPS outstanding female medical students choose derm vs. surgery because derm residency and practice are more family-friendly (my flame suit on, too) 5) i am not a caveman, thus i know that excellence and achievement in medical school are not gender biased.

so…putting these all together, as a derm applicant, i'd be up against outstanding male applicants who don’t want to go through a surgical residency AND most of the outstanding female applicants that i wouldn’t otherwise compete against, if i was a plastics applicant.

i'm proposing that the “self-selection” that goes on in plastics decreases the competitiveness of its applicant pool. thus, getting back to my previous post, who do you think would provide stiffer competition, 10 great plastics applicants (3/4 men) or 10 great derm applicants (60% female/40% male)?

very interested in your thoughts…don’t mean to start a pissing contest.

and gyric, we must consider that these numbers represent matching AT ALL, i.e. either that specialty, or their next choice. if you look at derm in 2005, for example, 945 people submitted applications for dermatology, but only ~320 people got dermatology positions last year, making the true match rate around 34%!

 

[Plastikos]

plastikos, i've been thinking about plastics vs. derm, and i wonder if i would face stiffer competition from the hypothetical 10 successful plastics applicants i talked about earlier, or if the 10 successful derm applicants would be a more “formidable” group when vying for those few precious residency positions.

let me play devil’s advocate: 1) male applicants outnumber female applicants in plastics 2-3 to 1. 2) many outstanding applicants interested in surgery opt for ortho or ent, rather than plastics. 3) in derm, female applicants outnumber male applicants 3 to 2. 4) PERHAPS outstanding female medical students choose derm vs. surgery because derm residency and practice are more family-friendly (my flame suit on, too) 5) i am not a caveman, thus i know that excellence and achievement in medical school are not gender biased.

so…putting these all together, as a derm applicant, i'd be up against outstanding male applicants who don’t want to go through a surgical residency AND most of the outstanding female applicants that i wouldn’t otherwise compete against, if i was a plastics applicant.

i'm proposing that the “self-selection” that goes on in plastics decreases the competitiveness of its applicant pool. thus, getting back to my previous post, who do you think would provide stiffer competition, 10 great plastics applicants (3/4 men) or 10 great derm applicants (60% female/40% male)?

very interested in your thoughts…don’t mean to start a pissing contest.

and gyric, we must consider that these numbers represent matching AT ALL, i.e. either that specialty, or their next choice. if you look at derm in 2005, for example, 945 people submitted applications for dermatology, but only ~320 people got dermatology positions last year, making the true match rate around 34%!

There is definitely a self selection according to who would like to endure a surgical residency for sure. Both applicant pools are very competitive academically, at least the proportion that recieves interviews.

I (obviously biased) think plastics is more competitive. If you look at the stat sheets provided above, by all measures usually used- # US apps/spots, %US matched, %AOA, match %, ranks/app, etc...plastics is the scariest.

This info is only useful to a limited extent though. I think it makes a huge difference in getting interviews, etc....but at least in plastics often times superstars ( 270/270, all Honors, VIP LOR) dont match while a "lesser" paper applicant does. I dont know if the same thing happens in derm.

Overall, i agree with the OP in that many of these specialties make it seem much more competitive than they really are.



for 2005,
Plastics 43% matched
Derm 57% matched
Rads 78% matched
Optho 86% matched
Path 88% matched
Anes 90% matched

 

[iyipbdw]

plastikos, you're such a tool!
can't stand your arrogance...and no one else at school can either!!!! you' re an egotistical narcissistic prick, just ask anyone in our class, and by the way, interesting how you're this self-annointed Master of all things Plastics.

just so full of yourself. Get over yourself.

I'm so sick of all your postings, I just had to finally say something. and by the way, I've hated you for the last 4 yrs!

 

[cdql]

ouch

that's not nice! haha

 

[iyipbdw]

I know, yeah, not exactly nice...but it's true! Of all of us who matched into plastics at USC, he is by FAR the most egotistical and cocky. Sure, we're proud of our achievements, but no need to be an a$$hole and cocky bastard ALL day, EVERY day. God it was so annoying to pretend to enjoy his company on match day and smile and laugh with him, with his passing out cigars and huge ego and self-congratulating and the big "IT's ALL ABOUT ME ME ME" show he put on.

 

[Solideliquid]

Wow, way to earn the respect of your fellow colleagues...

 

[Plastikos]

plastikos, you're such a tool!
can't stand your arrogance...and no one else at school can either!!!! you' re an egotistical narcissistic prick, just ask anyone in our class, and by the way, interesting how you're this self-annointed Master of all things Plastics.

just so full of yourself. Get over yourself.

I'm so sick of all your postings, I just had to finally say something. and by the way, I've hated you for the last 4 yrs!

Nice, you had to create a name just to flame me? If you dont like my posts dont read them. And you have me confused with someone else im sure, especially since i dont even socialize with our class how could they have any idea who i am? Also, its pretty sad and petty to act like that no matter who you actually believed me to be. You should do your homework before calling someone out. Especially if your in my class, you should have been able to figure out who i actually was.

 

[cdql]

haha...I can see how that might be grating

but hey...it's match day...if there's one day to be egotistical and too proud, that's the day

of course, if it's an everyday sort of thing, then that's no good

i would personally let a patient tell a doctor he/she is too smug. Or I would approach the person privately.

Calling him out on a message board certainly gets the point across but will probably tick him off a whole bunch too 🙂

 

[Plastikos]

I know, yeah, not exactly nice...but it's true! Of all of us who matched into plastics at USC, he is by FAR the most egotistical and cocky. Sure, we're proud of our achievements, but no need to be an a$$hole and cocky bastard ALL day, EVERY day. God it was so annoying to pretend to enjoy his company on match day and smile and laugh with him, with his passing out cigars and huge ego and self-congratulating and the big "IT's ALL ABOUT ME ME ME" show he put on.

LMAO, so your one of the plastics guys? That means i know who you are since i know who the "cigar guy" is and im me.

 

[Plastikos]

What no public retraction? NM, just another internet tough guy.

 

[tega]

plastikos, you're such a tool!
can't stand your arrogance...and no one else at school can either!!!! you' re an egotistical narcissistic prick, just ask anyone in our class, and by the way, interesting how you're this self-annointed Master of all things Plastics.

just so full of yourself. Get over yourself.

I'm so sick of all your postings, I just had to finally say something. and by the way, I've hated you for the last 4 yrs!

dude u r such a b!!tch, u couldnt tell him this face up. Coming on a web board talking tough....lool p**sy

 

[JackBauERfan]

What no public retraction? NM, just another internet tough guy.

so i would take it you and this irekeifsa guy/gal both hate the cigar guy? This is pretty much my message board soap opera, so lets keep it going folks.

 

[Plastikos]

so i would take it you and this irekeifsa guy/gal both hate the cigar guy? This is pretty much my message board soap opera, so lets keep it going folks.

No, its not like that for me. If i dont agree with someones personality, i just stay away from them, its nothing to get all worked up about.
Kind of doubtful that guy was really a plastics app, considering that they ID'd themselves with their post and would have to know that was going to happen (only 3 apps).
Especially since the person must have been trying to be anonymous by posting on a message board, when they could have just used the school email system or talked in person.

 

[iyipbdw]

No, its not like that for me. If i dont agree with someones personality, i just stay away from them, its nothing to get all worked up about.
Kind of doubtful that guy was really a plastics app, considering that they ID'd themselves with their post and would have to know that was going to happen (only 3 apps).
Especially since the person must have been trying to be anonymous by posting on a message board, when they could have just used the school email system or talked in person.

no no no Plasti-dorkus, why would anyone use the school email system to do broadcast an email? wassup with doing that? Don't ya just hate those people who constantly email the whole class ******ed stuff? Since this forum is Plastikos' pet little refuge where he can feel like a BiG Plastics Man, why not post here? I have read these forums for the last several years, and sheeeet, Plastikock, you're just tooo annoying and act like you know everything. You're a nobody right now and let me see how your ego shrinks down during internship when you're going to be a super-nobody. And by the way, yes, I have told you before that you're too cocky and need to turn it down several notches. So have other people. Maybe that is why people are fake nice to you...they really just don't like ya and simply tolerate you then walk away. PS: that's why few people 'hang' with you


This isn;t meant to be bitchy, just a bucket of cold hard reality that you're annoying as $hit, and always have been. Other that that, you're an ok guy.

 

[cdql]

I say we hand these two scalpels and have them spar!!

 

[Plastikos]

no no no Plasti-dorkus, why would anyone use the school email system to do broadcast an email? wassup with doing that? Don't ya just hate those people who constantly email the whole class ******ed stuff? Since this forum is Plastikos' pet little refuge where he can feel like a BiG Plastics Man, why not post here? I have read these forums for the last several years, and sheeeet, Plastikock, you're just tooo annoying and act like you know everything. You're a nobody right now and let me see how your ego shrinks down during internship when you're going to be a super-nobody. And by the way, yes, I have told you before that you're too cocky and need to turn it down several notches. So have other people. Maybe that is why people are fake nice to you...they really just don't like ya and simply tolerate you then walk away. PS: that's why few people 'hang' with you


This isn;t meant to be bitchy, just a bucket of cold hard reality that you're annoying as $hit, and always have been. Other that that, you're an ok guy.

LOL. Dude your obsessed. Did you match into plastics from USC? I dont think you did. Did you read the post about me NOT BEING the guy that passed out cigars there Sherlock? No one has ever said anything like that to me.

So what, you dont like that guy, get off his nutz and have some self respect, your acting like a little b!tch.

 

[DW3843]

who's the cigar guy?

http://old.plastics2002.com/myrank.php

 

[Plastikos]

who's the cigar guy?

http://old.plastics2002.com/myrank.php

That aint right to out him like that. The funny thing is, you know where i matched and then of course who i am. That would mean that this guy if he actually was a plastics app, would have matched with the dude hes so hung up on. Another six years together, LMAO.

But hes not.

 

[iyipbdw]

sheeeesh, plastikos, chill it! can;t you take a joke. Tell me you weren't irritated by cigar boy too? after 4 yrs of putting up with his crap, it was time to let it all out goddamit! It's all good. like I said, except for the fact he's an arrogant prick, he's an ok guy, especially when I don't have to be near him.

come on now, you know it's true..!

 

[analu]

There is definitely a self selection according to who would like to endure a surgical residency for sure. Both applicant pools are very competitive academically, at least the proportion that recieves interviews.

I (obviously biased) think plastics is more competitive. If you look at the stat sheets provided above, by all measures usually used- # US apps/spots, %US matched, %AOA, match %, ranks/app, etc...plastics is the scariest.

This info is only useful to a limited extent though. I think it makes a huge difference in getting interviews, etc....but at least in plastics often times superstars ( 270/270, all Honors, VIP LOR) dont match while a "lesser" paper applicant does. I dont know if the same thing happens in derm.

Overall, i agree with the OP in that many of these specialties make it seem much more competitive than they really are.



for 2005,
Plastics 43% matched
Derm 57% matched
Rads 78% matched
Optho 86% matched
Path 88% matched
Anes 90% matched

first off plastikos, i don't think you come off as arrogant. and yes, the same thing happens in derm, where tons of very qualified derm applicants with great scores, grades, lors, and research don't match. in fact, i know of derm applicants with over 12 interviews not matching...very harsh, esp. when considering all the travel expenses incurred december-february.

sheer numbers speak loudly...about 1000 derm applicants applied this year, only 306 were among the lucky. many of these applicants never got a SINGLE derm interview. and a lot of these applicants are reapplying after a 1-2 year derm research fellowship or after finishing an im or peds residency.

your thoughts?

 

[kaineliu]

sheeeesh, plastikos, chill it! can;t you take a joke. Tell me you weren't irritated by cigar boy too? after 4 yrs of putting up with his crap, it was time to let it all out goddamit! It's all good. like I said, except for the fact he's an arrogant prick, he's an ok guy, especially when I don't have to be near him.

come on now, you know it's true..!

The nice thing about plastics is that the applicant pool is so small. I've met all 3 guys from USC on multiple occasions, and Plastikos is a great guy. I don't exactly know who "cigar boy" is, but I have a pretty good idea. Very entertaining.

 

[GoPistons]

neurosurgery has got to be up there in the top 5 for sure... so few spots... very impressive applicants

 

[Plastikos]

The nice thing about plastics is that the applicant pool is so small. I've met all 3 guys from USC on multiple occasions, and Plastikos is a great guy. I don't exactly know who "cigar boy" is, but I have a pretty good idea. Very entertaining.

Congrats on your match! The northwest is beautiful, youll probably like it a lot. The rain and grey all the time stuff will definitely suck and take some getting used to, but the summers are gorgeous. Good luck.

 

[DrNick2006]

I would argue that any field is competitive if you want to go to the top places. I did IM and routinely met people with 260's on boards and a ton of research, AOA etc. Sure the community programs don't fill with US grads well, but for the top places like JHU, MGH etc. those people could do anything.