most encouraging/depressing mdapps profiles

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Is it sad that I can pin the "depressing" one's user name? I think so...
 
sarahl86 said:
Is it sad that I can pin the "depressing" one's user name? I think so...
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Its kokoeats...that one is depressing I cant believe he didnt get in. ksmis is depressing on the opposite spectrum as knowing you are competing against those stats when you look at your own is kinda 🙁.

Theres a lot of encouraging ones but nanons is encouraging to me just because shes in a somehwat similar situation to me.
 
I don't understand your criteria for depressing and encouraging.

The first person was above the national avg in GPA and at the average in MCAT, and only got into one school (which is not to belittle their accomplishments, that's still great) and the second was below the national average for GPA by 1.5 standard deviations and didn't get in, not that surprising...

That Food person's MDApps is probably more depressing IMO.
 
I think you're getting into some dangerous territory here. It's OK to discuss anonymous MDapps profiles (although I'm not sure exactly what it accomplishes), but I don't think it's OK to identify them as belonging to specific people. That would be "calling out" another member, which is not allowed.

Rules aside, it's just plain bad taste to discuss people like that. ("Ooh, look at him, he didn't get in anywhere this year ...") Don't you have anything better to do?
 
student1799 said:
I think you're getting into some dangerous territory here. It's OK to discuss anonymous MDapps profiles (although I'm not sure exactly what it accomplishes), but I don't think it's OK to identify them as belonging to specific people. That would be "calling out" another member, which is not allowed.

Rules aside, it's just plain bad taste to discuss people like that. ("Ooh, look at him, he didn't get in anywhere this year ...") Don't you have anything better to do?
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I would agree...
 
I agree with drizzt3117 - these outcomes don't seem especially exceptional one way or another.

Student1799 is right. If people chose not to link to their MDapps, it's not OK to identify them.
 
Please do not call out users for their mdapps. Posting profile links is fine, but do not associate the profiles with their SDN user.
 
Additionally, this goes to show where your GPA comes from is not worth the extra 30k/year :laugh::laugh: in tuition costs.
 
non in particular to me... just the people in my range. typed in my gpa range and the mcat score i think i'll get and everyone in that range got into at least one medical school. just gotta keep pounding the mcat books 🙂
 
sarahl86 said:
Is it sad that I can pin the "depressing" one's user name? I think so...
Click to expand...
Same, but for the encouraging one.

drizzt3117 said:
I don't understand your criteria for depressing and encouraging.

The first person was above the national avg in GPA and at the average in MCAT, and only got into one school (which is not to belittle their accomplishments, that's still great) and the second was below the national average for GPA by 1.5 standard deviations and didn't get in, not that surprising...

That Food person's MDApps is probably more depressing IMO.
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I agree, I thought you had the links wrong at first. I've seen much more depressing and encouraging ones (mostly depressing though).
 
FeralisExtremum said:
What...?

She came out of Princeton (albeit with the average GPA), a 40 MCAT, research, volunteering, leadership, etc. I see no reason why she should have settled for anything less than what she was aiming for. I think it's wrong to fault people for being ambitious when they've shown themselves to be capable, and she clearly did.
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Another thing to keep in mind is that a MDApps does not represent the entire application. Someone's GPA, MCAT, and activities may be stellar, but their PS and/or interview may totally suck, which would probably sink someone's chances. You just don't know.

MDApps are good for getting a general feel of what you need to do, but they shouldn't by any means be taken as gospel. There's too much that can't be stated on a profile that plays a big role in the ultimate decision.
 
no matter what you should apply broadly, if your goal is to get into A medical school
 
FeralisExtremum said:
What...?

She came out of Princeton (albeit with the average GPA), a 40 MCAT, research, volunteering, leadership, etc. I see no reason why she should have settled for anything less than what she was aiming for. I think it's wrong to fault people for being ambitious when they've shown themselves to be capable, and she clearly did.
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Agree. All she needs is a little more luck and apply EARLY.
 
Having a good personality, passion for caring for others and a generally warm heart are extremely important. Just seeing the GPA, MCAT and school she attended doesn't tell us anything about whether she possesses those qualities.

The fact that she didn't apply to anything but upper-crust schools displays a selective ignorance (EVERYONE should apply broadly) and an unwillingness to consider being a member of the sub-elite, even if that unwillingness means possibly waiting another year to go to medical school.

There are people who perform well in undergrad because they're just natively extremely intelligent and its little effort to them, or because it's what they need to do to get into medical school. But then there are other people who do well in undergrad because they NEED to perform with excellence in everything. They say all the right things, they wear all the right things, they join all the right groups... primarily because they are used to being the best and they demand only the best for them.

The later example is an arrogant neuroses in my opinion, and, frankly, I don't want those people caring for me or my family.

FeralisExtremum said:
What...?

She came out of Princeton (albeit with the average GPA), a 40 MCAT, research, volunteering, leadership, etc. I see no reason why she should have settled for anything less than what she was aiming for. I think it's wrong to fault people for being ambitious when they've shown themselves to be capable, and she clearly did.
Click to expand...
 
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majahops said:
Having a good personality, passion for caring for others and a generally warm heart are extremely important. Just seeing the GPA, MCAT and school she attended doesn't tell us anything about whether she possesses those qualities.

There are people who perform well in undergrad because they're just natively extremely intelligent and its little effort to them, or because it's what they need to do to get into medical school. But then there are other people who do well in undergrad because they NEED to perform with excellence in everything. They say all the right things, they wear all the right things, they join all the right groups... primarily because they are used to being the best and they demand only the best for them.

The later is a form of psychosis to me and, frankly, I don't want those people caring for me or my family.
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i agree


people from princeton are douchebags anyway. Uncle Phil be all up on a brother for no reason yo
 
I'm honored, I really am.

I'll make a new MDapps as soon as I finalize my school list so that I can lift your downtrodden spirits.

<basks in heavenly light>
 
koko_eats said:
I'm honored, I really am.

I'll make a new MDapps as soon as I finalize my school list so that I can lift your downtrodden spirits.

<basks in heavenly light>
Click to expand...

Yeah, now YOU clearly got a raw deal. My heart goes out to you and I wish you the best of luck next cycle!
 
majahops said:
Having a good personality, passion for caring for others and a generally warm heart are extremely important. Just seeing the GPA, MCAT and school she attended doesn't tell us anything about whether she possesses those qualities.

The fact that she didn't apply to anything but upper-crust schools displays a selective ignorance (EVERYONE should apply broadly) and an unwillingness to consider being a member of the sub-elite, even if that unwillingness means possibly waiting another year to go to medical school.

There are people who perform well in undergrad because they're just natively extremely intelligent and its little effort to them, or because it's what they need to do to get into medical school. But then there are other people who do well in undergrad because they NEED to perform with excellence in everything. They say all the right things, they wear all the right things, they join all the right groups... primarily because they are used to being the best and they demand only the best for them.

The later example is an arrogant neuroses in my opinion, and, frankly, I don't want those people caring for me or my family.
Click to expand...


There is nothing in her profile to indicate arrogance up to and including the schools she applied to. Where are you coming up with that? Because she went to Princeton and had a great MCAT score? I certainly wouldn't count high ambition and intelligence in multiple spheres as "psychosis" and grounds for not wanting "those people caring for me or my family." Her profile doesn't tell us a whole lot about her, but your comments sure say a lot about you.
 
FeralisExtremum said:
Sorry, but when your family actually needs taking care of, you'll be wanting that group of best doctors, be they neurotic about excellence or not - not the most 'genuine'. "Genuine" is a nice sappy pre-med concept that means little when it comes to getting things done and often translates poorly when it comes to accomplishment.
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It's weird that in medicine being technically excellent and being genuine/humble/caring can be mutually exclusive.
 
Haha, they aren't, and that's what he's missing completely... But I didn't even want to respond to the careless statement.

koko_eats said:
It's weird that in medicine being technically excellent and being genuine/humble/caring can be mutually exclusive.
Click to expand...
 
Look at the schools she ended up applying to and the schools that she ended up withdrawing from after doing the primary. Her list of schools reads as a who's who in medical schools.

And my statements ALWAYS say a lot about me. You're right. So?

not so calm now said:
There is nothing in her profile to indicate arrogance up to and including the schools she applied to. Where are you coming up with that? Because she went to Princeton and had a great MCAT score? I certainly wouldn't count high ambition and intelligence in multiple spheres as "psychosis" and grounds for not wanting "those people caring for me or my family." Her profile doesn't tell us a whole lot about her, but your comments sure say a lot about you.
Click to expand...
 
majahops said:
There are people who perform well in undergrad because they're just natively extremely intelligent and its little effort to them, or because it's what they need to do to get into medical school. But then there are other people who do well in undergrad because they NEED to perform with excellence in everything. They say all the right things, they wear all the right things, they join all the right groups... primarily because they are used to being the best and they demand only the best for them.

The later example is an arrogant neuroses in my opinion, and, frankly, I don't want those people caring for me or my family.
Click to expand...

hi. oh wait, HI! can you hear me all the way up there from your high horse?

how exactly would you be able to tell if one of "those people" was caring for you or your family? feeling the need to be good at things does not mean that you are automatically such an @ss that everyone you interact with hates you. you can expect the best from yourself-- go to good schools, get good grades, join good groups (whatever that means), wear good clothes-- and still be kind enough so that (gasp!) your patients might not even know that you are this way upon speaking with you.

this has been said before, but people want good doctors, not "genuine" people. yes, kindness is obviously part of being a good doctor, but your patients will not know whether you "deigned" to apply to lower-tiered schools unless you go to one. same as your patients won't know if you reached for high-tiered schools unless you go to one.

a kind prestige-***** never hurts anyone. 🙂 and don't tell me kindness and wanting the best (and being disappointed if you don't reach it) are mutually exclusive, 'cause they're not.

FeralisExtremum said:
Sorry, but when your family actually needs taking care of, you'll be wanting that group of best doctors, be they neurotic about excellence or not - not the most 'genuine'. "Genuine" is a nice sappy pre-med concept that means little when it comes to getting things done and often translates poorly when it comes to accomplishment.
Click to expand...

👍👍

and who cares if they're neurotic about excellence? as long as the rest of their personality allows them to interact successfully with patients, that neuroticism will probably serve them quite well.
 
dw2158 said:
feeling the need to be good at things does not mean that you are automatically such an @ss that everyone you interact with hates you.

...


don't tell me kindness and wanting the best (and being disappointed if you don't reach it) are mutually exclusive, 'cause they're not.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately in medicine, we often make allowances for rude/unkind/unprofessional doctors simply because they are the "best."

So many times we make referrals like "he's a jerk, but he's the best" or "he's rude, but I'm not here to make friends" as if a person can't be both compassionate and be the best at the same time.

While we're on the topic of family, how would you react if someone treated your loved one as just another chore? It wouldn't matter if he was the best, because you'd rightfully be furious.

I think we're arguing for the same thing, that a doctor can be kind and great at the same time. It's just that we like to play this game that one part of a person's behavior excuses another.
 
whaaaaaaaaaaaaat waaaaaas thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? I can't hearrrrrrr you from alllll the waaayyyy up heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere.

dw2158 said:
hi. oh wait, HI! can you hear me all the way up there from your high horse?

how exactly would you be able to tell if one of "those people" was caring for you or your family? feeling the need to be good at things does not mean that you are automatically such an @ss that everyone you interact with hates you. you can expect the best from yourself-- go to good schools, get good grades, join good groups (whatever that means), wear good clothes-- and still be kind enough so that (gasp!) your patients might not even know that you are this way upon speaking with you.

this has been said before, but people want good doctors, not "genuine" people. yes, kindness is obviously part of being a good doctor, but your patients will not know whether you "deigned" to apply to lower-tiered schools unless you go to one. same as your patients won't know if you reached for high-tiered schools unless you go to one.

a kind prestige-***** never hurts anyone. 🙂 and don't tell me kindness and wanting the best (and being disappointed if you don't reach it) are mutually exclusive, 'cause they're not.



👍👍

and who cares if they're neurotic about excellence? as long as the rest of their personality allows them to interact successfully with patients, that neuroticism will probably serve them quite well.
Click to expand...
 
majahops said:
Her list of schools reads as a who's who in medical schools.
Click to expand...

George Washington? Really?

And responding to someone's misfortune with she "can suck my balls" doesn't exactly conjure up images of the kind of "good personality, passion for caring for others and a generally warm heart" that you profess to be so important.
 
koko_eats said:
It's weird that in medicine being technically excellent and being genuine/humble/caring can be mutually exclusive.
Click to expand...
You'd be surprised how often that's the case, unfortunately. The good part is that it's usually on the technically-skilled-but-a-major-douche side rather than the Patch-Adams-who-kills-people side.
 
Well, while I do think that being kind and being great aren't mutually exclusive, I still prefer a douchebag who's going to be technically excellent to a kind, bumbling guy who's going to make me laugh before giving me the wrong drug and killing me. If I had to pick between the two. Luckily (hopefully) we're all somewhere in the middle, so it's unlikely that we'll have to really pick. Still, I'd rather have a toolish surgeon and live to tell the tale than have someone I want to hug but wait, he chopped the wrong arm off.

As for the poor Princeton girl, in her defense, a 40 MCAT with a low gpa is sort of hard to work with. I mean, you really have no "go-to" schools to apply to.
 
koko_eats said:
I think we're arguing for the same thing, that a doctor can be kind and great at the same time. It's just that we like to play this game that one part of a person's behavior excuses another.
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yeah, which is why i didn't argue with any of your earlier posts... 😕

not so calm now said:
And responding to someone's misfortune with she "can suck my balls" doesn't exactly conjure up images of the kind of "good personality, passion for caring for others and a generally warm heart" that you profess to be so important.
Click to expand...

haha 👍

MilkmanAl said:
You'd be surprised how often that's the case, unfortunately. The good part is that it's usually on the technically-skilled-but-a-major-douche side rather than the Patch-Adams-who-kills-people side.
Click to expand...

i like that you call it "the good part." because i agree.

ButImLETired said:
Well, while I do think that being kind and being great aren't mutually exclusive, I still prefer a douchebag who's going to be technically excellent to a kind, bumbling guy who's going to make me laugh before giving me the wrong drug and killing me. If I had to pick between the two. Luckily (hopefully) we're all somewhere in the middle, so it's unlikely that we'll have to really pick. Still, I'd rather have a toolish surgeon and live to tell the tale than have someone I want to hug but wait, he chopped the wrong arm off.
Click to expand...

as usual... LET for the win! empathy is great but ultimately of secondary importance.
 
majahops said:
There are people who perform well in undergrad because they're just natively extremely intelligent and its little effort to them, or because it's what they need to do to get into medical school. But then there are other people who do well in undergrad because they NEED to perform with excellence in everything. They say all the right things, they wear all the right things, they join all the right groups... primarily because they are used to being the best and they demand only the best for them.

The later example is an arrogant neuroses in my opinion, and, frankly, I don't want those people caring for me or my family.
Click to expand...

Striving for excellence is an "arrogant neurosis"? That's just slightly more ridiculous than judging a person on what little you can extract from that MDapps profile.
 
This guy is a school admin? Pretty amazing.

If you can't recognize the fact that every school has different standards for your GPA I don't know what to tell you. The adcoms who make decisions like this based solely on GPA are not doing anyone a favor. You're boosting your stats or selecting the applicants because it's easy to discriminate on a number that is entirely arbitrary.

For instance: It's pretty much a department policy in my department to follow a true bell curve. So while there are pre-meds in my department with 'subpar' (3.2ish) GPAs, they're really still in the +1.5std deviation range of a department where the average ACT is a 32.

GPA comparisons between schools are irrelevant. Some of us do work for our A's, instead of the professor just handing 42% of the class A's and the rest B's (hahvahd)

Edit: Referring to DrReo
 
what does kindness and skillz have to do with the girl's selection of schools?


there's two different voices in this thread. those who have applied/finished interviewing and those who have not yet.


after interviewing, I found it really hard to find significant differences between schools. This is why you see all the X vs Y threads. We all started with the same list that Princeton girl had. She just didn't diversify enough.


She didn't even add her state schools. UMDNJ secondary fees are like $30. There's no essays. She's from Jersey. She went to Princeton. Maybe you hate Jersey, fine, but atleast go say hi. She applied to Penn but no other Philly schools. She applied to NW and Pritzker and no other Chicago schools. You would be surprised how similar med schools are. You should atleast take the time to apply broadly, no matter what your stats are. You never know where you might enjoy yourself or get aid from. I had a friend who went to RWJ over Hopkins. Things happen. Take your time with applications.



To add, this was in 2003. There are higher GPA cut offs now, esp NYU.
 
You win. I'm done here.

I think I'm just bitter. Never did get along with the perfect kids.

Thanks for being my psychologist for the hour, guys. 🙂
 
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FeralisExtremum said:
Sorry, but when your family actually needs taking care of, you'll be wanting that group of best doctors, be they neurotic about excellence or not - not the most 'genuine'. "Genuine" is a nice sappy pre-med concept that means little when it comes to getting things done and often translates poorly when it comes to accomplishment.

Not to mention, as others have said, the fact she applied to upper tier schools says nothing about her motivations in that respect.
Click to expand...
Ummm..who says she would be a great doctor....she has a 3.2 gpa...not good at all. FOr all we know the 40 on the MCAT was a big freakin fluke...she was a tool for applying to the schools she did with a 3.2 gpa.
 
DrReo said:
What's wrong with that? A GPA that takes 3-4 years should not be compensated for a high standardized test score.
Click to expand...

Isnt the MCAT the best metric for success in med school, especially considering how GPA can vary based on major, school, and etc.
 
majahops said:
Having a good personality, passion for caring for others and a generally warm heart are extremely important. Just seeing the GPA, MCAT and school she attended doesn't tell us anything about whether she possesses those qualities.

The fact that she didn't apply to anything but upper-crust schools displays a selective ignorance (EVERYONE should apply broadly) and an unwillingness to consider being a member of the sub-elite, even if that unwillingness means possibly waiting another year to go to medical school.

There are people who perform well in undergrad because they're just natively extremely intelligent and its little effort to them, or because it's what they need to do to get into medical school. But then there are other people who do well in undergrad because they NEED to perform with excellence in everything. They say all the right things, they wear all the right things, they join all the right groups... primarily because they are used to being the best and they demand only the best for them.

The later example is an arrogant neuroses in my opinion, and, frankly, I don't want those people caring for me or my family.
Click to expand...

To be frank, those are the type of ppl(ones that strive to be the best) that I would want to treat me and my family. I wouldnt want someone that just goes through the motions, does the bare minimum, and ends up becoming a physician because they had a good PS, life story, or personality.

I dont think she can be faulted for applying to those schools based on her profile. She might have chosen those schools based on a multitude of factors and even if she choose them solely based on reputation, that’s her right. She put in the effort to get the high grades, MCAT, ECs, and is justified to expect that her effort would be rewarded with the option to attend top medical schools.
.
 
batman1983 said:
She put in the effort to get the high grades, MCAT, ECs, and is justified to expect that her effort would be rewarded with the option to attend top medical schools.
.
Click to expand...
The argument here is that she didn't get great grades (she had a 3.2) but still felt entitled enough to apply to top schools by virtue of being from Princeton, getting a 40 on the MCAT, etc. (which of course is all pure conjecture.)

I'm with you guys. I want the "nice" people to be up at the front desk taking my copayment. I want the physician to know what he/she's doing, and if he/she isn't a total jerk that's a nice plus.
 
batman1983 said:
She put in the effort to get the high grades, MCAT, ECs, and is justified to expect that her effort would be rewarded with the option to attend top medical schools.
.
Click to expand...
Her grades were pretty ****ty..and her ecs didnt look to special neither.
 
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