Most of our teachers are physicians....

[Premed2295]

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just my weird musings. Most of our teachers as medical students are physicians. I wonder how often they think about whether that student told the truth about being sick for that exam, or recognize the mental health struggles of students, or recognize signs of a student having a medical diagnosis before we bother to see doctors.


My class just did a case study on a medical student being diagnosed with Leukemia and he had signs and symptoms he ignored for weeks prior to diagnosis. Makes me wonder if they would notice and/or tell us

 

[libertyyne]

Can you imagine the amount of mental energy required to constantly assess and run differentials in your mind with nothing else but a social interaction. Doesn't seem likely that they are thinking about students as patients.

 

[Tenk]

Most real medical diagnoses are actually uncommon in the medical student age group making the above scenario incredibly rare but it does happen. In terms of mental health attendings for sure notice when people act differently. I have seen numerous instances of students being evaluated for mental health concerns based on performance and social interactions. I have also seen students diagnosed with cancer, autoimmune disease, heart arrhythmias, etc. Uncommon, but when it happens, it sucks.

 

[MSTPlease]

They might not still do it anymore but back when I was a 2nd year, we used to do peripheral smears of our own blood as part of the blood pathophys course and the course director said every few years a student would learn of a condition they didn't know they had because of it.

 

[NicMouse64]

They might not still do it anymore but back when I was a 2nd year, we used to do peripheral smears of our own blood as part of the blood pathophys course and the course director said every few years a student would learn of a condition they didn't know they had because of it.

I think it's interesting as it should be a lesson of "clinically relevant". I have a minor heart condition, an incomplete right bundle branch block, but it isn't at all clinically relevant. If I didn't have such a low level of anxiety this would cause me some anxiety if it was found in a class or something. It's also important because as patients learn more about tests from the internet I think it will be important to be able to communicate effectively with them that the body is complex, few bodies are perfect, and if you try hard enough you can probably find something wrong with everyone. That doesn't mean they are dying, need treatment, or a referral to a subspecialist in the area where they have a minor issue.

 

[Goro]

Most real medical diagnoses are actually uncommon in the medical student age group making the above scenario incredibly rare but it does happen. In terms of mental health attendings for sure notice when people act differently. I have seen numerous instances of students being evaluated for mental health concerns based on performance and social interactions. I have also seen students diagnosed with cancer, autoimmune disease, heart arrhythmias, etc. Uncommon, but when it happens, it sucks.

What Tenk says. One of my clinician faculty colleagues diagnosed a life threatening illness in one of our students, and also recognized one was having a psychotic break.

 

[MSTPlease]

I think it's interesting as it should be a lesson of "clinically relevant". I have a minor heart condition, an incomplete right bundle branch block, but it isn't at all clinically relevant. If I didn't have such a low level of anxiety this would cause me some anxiety if it was found in a class or something. It's also important because as patients learn more about tests from the internet I think it will be important to be able to communicate effectively with them that the body is complex, few bodies are perfect, and if you try hard enough you can probably find something wrong with everyone. That doesn't mean they are dying, need treatment, or a referral to a subspecialist in the area where they have a minor issue.

Excellent point, which is why I would imagine they don't do it anymore (2nd year for me was 2011-2012), but I remember she gave examples of both very benign, mainly intellectually interesting findings as well as people who had full blown malignancies/infections, etc. The latter was obviously more rare than say 2 gene alpha thal.

 

[NicMouse64]

Excellent point, which is why I would imagine they don't do it anymore (2nd year for me was 2011-2012), but I remember she gave examples of both very benign, mainly intellectually interesting findings as well as people who had full blown malignancies/infections, etc. The latter was obviously more rare than say 2 gene alpha thal.

Agreed. At my school we have faculty who almost go overboard. We have an ultrasound curriculum, and when someone's thyroid was a bit big they sent the person to go see a doctor immediately. Aside from the large thyroid, this person had nothing wrong with them.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I cannot help but notice when people have an obvious Ortho issue. If they have a limp, I can guess with reasonable certainly what they had done, and often even the surgical approach that was used.


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[Mass Effect]

They might not still do it anymore but back when I was a 2nd year, we used to do peripheral smears of our own blood as part of the blood pathophys course and the course director said every few years a student would learn of a condition they didn't know they had because of it.

This sounds unethical to me and shouldn't be a thing.

 

[watermelon master]

This sounds unethical to me and shouldn't be a thing.

why?

 

[Mass Effect]

why?

Because of the reasons mentioned above.

 

[857770]

just my weird musings. Most of our teachers as medical students are physicians. I wonder how often they think about whether that student told the truth about being sick for that exam, or recognize the mental health struggles of students, or recognize signs of a student having a medical diagnosis before we bother to see doctors.


My class just did a case study on a medical student being diagnosed with Leukemia and he had signs and symptoms he ignored for weeks prior to diagnosis. Makes me wonder if they would notice and/or tell us

It is interesting that you brought this up. I have never seen this happen during medical school. But, it happened to me during undergraduate. My psychology professor detected OCD in me. Sometimes I would talk to him about the course and the research paper I was writing for his class. He saw symptoms and asked if he could talk to me as a clinician. He is a clinical psychologist that trained in a behavoristic model.

 

[watermelon master]

Because of the reasons mentioned above.

Great reply. Thanks for adding to the conversation

 

[Mass Effect]

Great reply. Thanks for adding to the conversation

Don't be a jerk. I'm not obligated to give you a huge reply. My opinion is that it isn't okay to do this in class and my reason why has already been stated above.

 

[MSTPlease]

This sounds unethical to me and shouldn't be a thing.

Yeah, I mean at the time we were generally excited to do it because it sounded cool. It certainly wasn’t actually required that you have it drawn and look at it and I believe she told those stories specifically as a caveat emptor that you might discover something you weren’t aware of. I don’t really fault her for having it be part of the course, I think a lot of people thought it was a great idea at the time (myself included) but like I said, I’m guessing it’s been phased out by now.

 

[thegreengreatdragon]

Agreed. At my school we have faculty who almost go overboard. We have an ultrasound curriculum, and when someone's thyroid was a bit big they sent the person to go see a doctor immediately. Aside from the large thyroid, this person had nothing wrong with them.

This exact situation happened to me like a month into med school and completely freaked me out. I mean, it's better to be safe than sorry, but still.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

I have X-ray vision but don't try to use it often.

 

[Premed2295]

I literally decide that I have at least half the things we study, so this would probably be me.

 

[DrSnips]

just my weird musings. Most of our teachers as medical students are physicians. I wonder how often they think about whether that student told the truth about being sick for that exam, or recognize the mental health struggles of students, or recognize signs of a student having a medical diagnosis before we bother to see doctors.

Most illness is "invisible" and the majority of diagnosis comes from taking the history (and then running suitable testing where applicable). Unless your teachers are taking your HPI, it is unlikely they are diagnosing you with anything not readily seen by inspection on exam. Now if you start offhandedly mentioning symptoms to them that might be a different story.

 

[mehc012]

I volunteered as the model for echos when we divided into small groups to do those...the experienced tech did it first and then everyone got to practice (except the model). Frankly, I volunteered because I thought it would be interesting to see, and also because they tried to get only guys to volunteer, which I thought was bullcrap and the other students agreed that we never get to practice on women and it makes it harder/more awkward later. Found out I have a tiny bit of tricuspid regurg (like 99% of people) and, interestingly enough, a left ventricular false tendon (which doesn't mean anything, but was cool to see nonetheless). But I suppose I could have found any number of things, especially since I went to the doctor minimally as a kid. I'm glad we got to do this, though!

 

[NicMouse64]

I volunteered as the model for echos when we divided into small groups to do those...the experienced tech did it first and then everyone got to practice (except the model). Frankly, I volunteered because I thought it would be interesting to see, and also because they tried to get only guys to volunteer, which I thought was bullcrap and the other students agreed that we never get to practice on women and it makes it harder/more awkward later. Found out I have a tiny bit of tricuspid regurg (like 99% of people) and, interestingly enough, a left ventricular false tendon (which doesn't mean anything, but was cool to see nonetheless). But I suppose I could have found any number of things, especially since I went to the doctor minimally as a kid. I'm glad we got to do this, though!

Ya but consider your average medical student, with their normal level of sanity, then add some weird anatomical and clinical variations and you have a recipe for disaster in some cases. I know at my school they could do a better job of communicating and having physicians in the room instead of PHDs or techs to interpret the clinical relevance of some of these findings.

Just goes to show you that a ton of what we do in medicine is uneccessary.

 

[Premed2295]

literally i diagnose myself with something we study weekly if not more. So this would literally be me.

 

[mehc012]

Ya but consider your average medical student, with their normal level of sanity, then add some weird anatomical and clinical variations and you have a recipe for disaster in some cases. I know at my school they could do a better job of communicating and having physicians in the room instead of PHDs or techs to interpret the clinical relevance of some of these findings.

Just goes to show you that a ton of what we do in medicine is uneccessary.

Might be some good perspective for them to see...maybe they'd learn a thing or two about how nerve wracking it can be to receive medical news that you don't understand properly.

 

[deleted87051]

literally i diagnose myself with something we study weekly if not more. So this would literally be me.

I diagnosed myself with testicular cancer in 1989. Apparently it is very slow growing.

 

[anbuitachi]

just my weird musings. Most of our teachers as medical students are physicians. I wonder how often they think about whether that student told the truth about being sick for that exam, or recognize the mental health struggles of students, or recognize signs of a student having a medical diagnosis before we bother to see doctors.


My class just did a case study on a medical student being diagnosed with Leukemia and he had signs and symptoms he ignored for weeks prior to diagnosis. Makes me wonder if they would notice and/or tell us

they may be physicians but it doesn't mean they care about you or your health. look at some other forums like anes/surgery. old guys think young trainees have it easier than them with their work hours, they are weak, etc blah blah. seems to me a lot of older attendings dont realize that working 24 hours or constant shift changes is bad for health in many ways. so im going to guess no they dont. and even if they do recognize mental healthy struggles, some will just dismiss it as you being weak. i think it's a huge problem in medicine.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I volunteered to be an ultrasound model back in undergrad and found out I have 2 femoral veins on one side. It’s not really clinically significant as far as I’m aware, but I’ve always wondered if it means I have a higher risk for DVTs.

Also, back when I was studying for step 1 I convinced myself I had Hodgkins Lymphoma - it was a big bite...

What did you diagnose yourself with today?

 

[Premed2295]

I just finished my Heme/Onc block.
I currently have
1. Anemia of Chronic Disease (from an unknown cause but I know I have a chronic disease somewhere)
2. Raynauds Syndrome
3. Hodgkins Lymphoma
4. AML
5. An enlarged spleen causing loss of appetite
6. Dengue Fever


Depends on the hour which of these DDx is accurate.

 

[IMG69]

I find it pretty cool tbh, A guy in my class was hit by a car and our Ortho lecturer operated on him, I also like it when they answer their phone and then say "sorry about that, one of my patients is critical" 😀

It's kind of awe inspiring.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I find it pretty cool tbh, A guy in my class was hit by a car and our Ortho lecturer operated on him, I also like it when they answer their phone and then say "sorry about that, one of my patients is critical" 😀

It's kind of awe inspiring.

They’re just pulling your leg. If an ortho patient is critical, they’re not on our service.


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[mehc012]

They’re just pulling your leg. If an ortho patient is critical, they’re not on our service.


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Likely not talking about the same lecturer both times 😀

 

[Stagg737]

This sounds unethical to me and shouldn't be a thing.

Only if they were required to do it. I don't see any ethical issues if the students are voluntarily doing the smears on themselves. I wish we had gotten to do something like this, especially the ultrasound thing as I'd Be interested in seeing my heart given some family history.

 

[Premed2295]

Only if they were required to do it. I don't see any ethical issues if the students are voluntarily doing the smears on themselves. I wish we had gotten to do something like this, especially the ultrasound thing as I'd Be interested in seeing my heart given some family history.

Definitely not the environment I would want to do that personally but to each his own.
I agree not inherently unethical as long as it’s truly voluntary. Not you don’t have to but it counts toward you grade voluntary.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Likely not talking about the same lecturer both times 😀

Could be haha


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[Mass Effect]

Only if they were required to do it. I don't see any ethical issues if the students are voluntarily doing the smears on themselves. I wish we had gotten to do something like this, especially the ultrasound thing as I'd Be interested in seeing my heart given some family history.

I don't know, while it may not be unethical IF it's voluntary, I still think it shouldn't be a class project. Anyone who wants to do it can do so on their own time, but I feel like the whole class participating with a chance to opt-out is not the same as making it voluntary for anyone who wants to stay after class.

 

[Stagg737]

I don't know, while it may not be unethical IF it's voluntary, I still think it shouldn't be a class project. Anyone who wants to do it can do so on their own time, but I feel like the whole class participating with a chance to opt-out is not the same as making it voluntary for anyone who wants to stay after class.

I mean, if they were expected to present the smears to the class, then yea it's a problem. I assumed they were just doing it on their own blood and looking at it themselves. I get the privacy concerns, but how often are you going to get to have free tests run to rule stuff out. Idk, just seems like an opportunity most people would want to take advantage of.

 

[IMG69]

They’re just pulling your leg. If an ortho patient is critical, they’re not on our service.


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Oh sorry I was implying all my lecturers, Gastros, Nephros, cardios etc 🙂

 

[Premed2295]

Genuinely had a physician/teacher walk out of a lecture to go see an emergency patient last year in my masters course.

 

[Treebeard]

My heme professor and a large chunk of the students really wanted to do blood smears in class. Admin wouldn't let us 🙁

 

[DrSnips]

I mean, if they were expected to present the smears to the class, then yea it's a problem. I assumed they were just doing it on their own blood and looking at it themselves. I get the privacy concerns, but how often are you going to get to have free tests run to rule stuff out. Idk, just seems like an opportunity most people would want to take advantage of.

Except then it becomes a free test as interpreted by a med student who has no experience interpreting blood smears. Probably not a great test.

 

[Stagg737]

Except then it becomes a free test as interpreted by a med student who has no experience interpreting blood smears. Probably not a great test.

Right, but hopefully they're being supervised by an experienced pathologist who has extensive experience interpreting blood smears. If it's the blind leading the blind then it doesn't matter what's being learned, it's crappy no matter what.

 

[DrSnips]

Right, but hopefully they're being supervised by an experienced pathologist who has extensive experience interpreting blood smears. If it's the blind leading the blind then it doesn't matter what's being learned, it's crappy no matter what.

He was saying there's no privacy concern as long as you are interpreting your own smear. As soon as you bring in the pathologist the privacy concerns return.