Most potent analgesic?

[Rafa]

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Is Carfentanil the most potent drug in existence? I've been googling and wikireading, and looking for a list of the most potent analgesics. It seems opiates pwn that category, and among them, the veterinary large animal analgesics are at the top. Even LSD, one of the most potent drugs known, only begins to produce hallucinations at ~20ug. But are there other drugs that produce effects at around 1 microgram, like Carfentanil?

 

[InGasWeTrust]

Im not sure, but.....

Iam sure it can be found in the Port of Miami

 

[Noyac]

Im not sure, but.....

Iam sure it can be found in the Port of Miami

And the streets of Albuquerque.

 

[MedicinePowder]

And the streets of Albuquerque.

and quaint small cities on the outskirts of los angeles

 

[Rafa]

So...you don't know. Bah.

 

[jetproppilot]

Im not sure, but.....

Iam sure it can be found in the Port of Miami

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA

 

[militarymd]

Is Carfentanil the most potent drug in existence? I've been googling and wikireading, and looking for a list of the most potent analgesics. It seems opiates pwn that category, and among them, the veterinary large animal analgesics are at the top. Even LSD, one of the most potent drugs known, only begins to produce hallucinations at ~20ug. But are there other drugs that produce effects at around 1 microgram, like Carfentanil?

Why do you care how potent a drug is?

What clinicians care about is efficacy...not potency...because you can always give more.

 

[Rafa]

Why do you care how potent a drug is?

What clinicians care about is efficacy...not potency...because you can always give more.

Haven't you ever wanted to know something out of curiousity? I'm not planning on shooting elephants, but I found it interesting that I couldn't find a site (or a person) with info. I'm sure the answer is out there - someone knows what combinations of atoms have the strongest effects per molecule on the human body - but so far, neither Google, Wikipedia, nor SDN has the answer. 😎

 

[sdn1977]

I've refrained from jumping in, but I have to...."potency" with respect to drugs is the location of the concentration-effect curve along the "concentration axis". Altho it is often related to the dose of a drug required to produce an effect, it is more related to the concentration, which is a unit/unit (ie mg/ml or mcg/ml, ng/ml, etc) required to produce an effect which is dependent upon variables such as fluids looked at (CSF, plasma, tissue) & size (neonate, adult).

Thus....Mils comment - to clinicians this is a nonissue - they give the amt required to produce the effect they seek.

Also...you are comparing apples to oranges...analgesics & hallucinogens are not comparable. Opiates work on opoid receptors (of which we know only a few) & LSD is a nonselective 5-HT agonist - no analgesic properties. This is like comparing the relative potencies of a penicillin with the can of coke you just drank - not comparable at all - they have different effects so not comparable.

Pretty much - I would agree with all the previous answers though - the more potent drugs might be found in "port" cities (LA, Miami, Seattle, SF, etc) - I was surprised about Alburquque!!!! 😀 , but I've only been there once & never saw anything on the tram ride to the top of the mountain!

ps...look at venoms - some of the most potent naturally occuring substances.....

 

[Laryngospasm]

.

Also...you are comparing apples to oranges...analgesics & hallucinogens are not comparable. Opiates work on opoid receptors (of which we know only a few) & LSD is a nonselective 5-HT agonist - no analgesic properties. This is like comparing the relative potencies of a penicillin with the can of coke you just drank - not comparable at all - they have different effects so not comparable.

.....

There is more than one way to skin a cat, LSD does have analgesic effects, just like PCP and Ketamine. Yes they are different MOAs, just like acetominophen and opiods have different MOAs. As a matter of fact ketamine is much closer to being a perfect anesthetic than the opiods are. A drug doesnt have to bind to the opiod receptors to produce pain relief or reduction.

 

[undecided05]

i thought that nitrous oxide was the the the only med/drug/wippit that had 100% analgesia?? would that make it the most potent?

 

[sdn1977]

There is more than one way to skin a cat, LSD does have analgesic effects, just like PCP and Ketamine. Yes they are different MOAs, just like acetominophen and opiods have different MOAs. As a matter of fact ketamine is much closer to being a perfect anesthetic than the opiods are. A drug doesnt have to bind to the opiod receptors to produce pain relief or reduction.

Yep - you're right! An analgesic doesn't have to bind to opiod receptors to relieve pain. Your example of ketamine & PCP which bind to NDMA receptors as well as NSAIDS binding to COX receptors all produce pain relief altho by different mechanisms.

LSD, altho an ergot derivative, does not appear to bind to the same 5-HT receptors as drugs like sumatriptan (binds to 5-HT1 rather than LSD which binds to 5-HT2).

If an anesthetic produces a profound enough amnesia or dissociation, it sometimes becomes difficult to determine if the drug also produces analgesia. I believe that is the case with LSD - it has been difficult to determine analgesia effects separate from anesthetic effects.

From Mils point of view & maybe many anesthesiologists, they may not care about the potency - sometimes an opiate works, sometimes ketamine, sometimes a combination of many types - but no one really compares the actual mg or mcg they give between the classes because they are derived from different chemical bases & work on different receptors. Just evaluating mg or mcg is more an evaluation of mass of one drug - not concentration which relates mass to patient size (volume of distribution), pharmacodynamics, pharmacokinetics, receptor activity & efficacy (or LD50).