Motherhood in Medicine

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I'm placing this in pre-med because I'm a pre-med but also so that pre-meds who are interested in planning out parenthood can know when to start planning. If this thread fits better in a different subforum feel free to move it.

Hello guys, I want to know when the best time period for a person interested in medicine is to have children. I am not talking 1 or 2 children maximum, I'm talking more along the lines of 5 children.

I know in society it's also a lot easier on men since men are considered the primary breadwinners so I want this to be more on a female focus.

Am I sealing the fate of my children in being raised by nannies or babysitters? I want to be an integral part of their lives, I'm just worried that I would have to choose between child rearing and medicine and it's tough having that thought when other fields have become more female friendly over the years.

Could hospitals potentially have daycares so that mothers on break can help their kids?

Also would psychiatry be a good residency for such mothers?

This question is really multifaceted since it tackles all parts of the medical process, I need to know if I have to choose between one or the other.

Thanks

Edit: For women who have done it or for women you know who have done it, when did they start having kids? (Keep in mind I want around 5 not 1 or 2)

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Hospitals aren’t daycare centers for your kids. If you want that many kids and you and your spouse are working full time, then nannies or actual daycare centers are the way to go. You can have a career in medicine and have 5 kids, but you won’t be there for them as much as you want. The best time to have kids is in residency or once you’re an attending. If you’re competitive for one of the ROAD specialties, then you can have a more controllable lifestyle.


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I'm placing this in pre-med because I'm a pre-med but also so that pre-meds who are interested in planning out parenthood can know when to start planning. If this thread fits better in a different subforum feel free to move it.

Hello guys, I want to know when the best time period for a person interested in medicine is to have children. I am not talking 1 or 2 children maximum, I'm talking more along the lines of 5 children.

I know in society it's also a lot easier on men since men are considered the primary breadwinners so I want this to be more on a female focus.

Am I sealing the fate of my children in being raised by nannies or babysitters? I want to be an integral part of their lives, I'm just worried that I would have to choose between child rearing and medicine and it's tough having that thought when other fields have become more female friendly over the years.

Could hospitals potentially have daycares so that mothers on break can help their kids?

Also would psychiatry be a good residency for such mothers?

This question is really multifaceted since it tackles all parts of the medical process, I need to know if I have to choose between one or the other.

Thanks

Edit: For women who have done it or for women you know who have done it, when did they start having kids? (Keep in mind I want around 5 not 1 or 2)
The real question is when will you have five children? Most medical schools limit you to 6 maximum years to completion unless you are taking a research track or completing a second degree. Unless you plan on taking no time off, in which case, somebody is going to be looking after your kids that isn't you, so you'd better have a supportive husband or family. I worked at a hospital with a daycare for residents once, but they are rare. And while you might technically be able to take time from residency for childbirth, the practical issues would quickly make themselves apparent and you'd be in a messy situation come your fifth year of a three year residency with your fifth child on the way...
 
I shadowed a doc way back in the day who had 8 kids. A female. Took some time off, worked part time outpatient (med/peds). Made my 4 seem like peanuts.

For me the best time to have kids was before medical school but it has a trade off in being really broke for quite a while. Reason: I knew I wanted a bunch of kids for sure, but wasn’t as sure about med school until later. And I was able to be home with them during infancy which mattered to me at the time. You can make it work however you do it. If you’re pretty young you can still have 5 kids during and after residency. My colleagues and mentors are still having kids at my age 8-10 yrs post residency. You just have to do life with your family and kids rather than centered only around them.

There’s nothing wrong with high quality childcare and my kid who went to daycare is just as well adjusted as the ones I was home with in the early years. In retrospect they probably did a better job with the day to day than one relatively isolated SAHM with a pack of small children. No dad worries that he’s not really raising his children because he goes to work or because they go to school; neither should you. Don’t buy the mommy wars crap.

One more thing: you may find as I did that the number of kids you want changes. I thought I wanted six or so and ended up with 3+a great step kid and was done done done.
 
I shadowed a doc way back in the day who had 8 kids. A female. Took some time off, worked part time outpatient (med/peds). Made my 4 seem like peanuts.

For me the best time to have kids was before medical school but it has a trade off in being really broke for quite a while. Reason: I knew I wanted a bunch of kids for sure, but wasn’t as sure about med school until later. And I was able to be home with them during infancy which mattered to me at the time. You can make it work however you do it. If you’re pretty young you can still have 5 kids during and after residency. My colleagues and mentors are still having kids at my age 8-10 yrs post residency. You just have to do life with your family and kids rather than centered only around them.

There’s nothing wrong with high quality childcare and my kid who went to daycare is just as well adjusted as the ones I was home with in the early years. In retrospect they probably did a better job with the day to day than one relatively isolated SAHM with a pack of small children. No dad worries that he’s not really raising his children because he goes to work or because they go to school; neither should you. Don’t buy the mommy wars crap.

One more thing: you may find as I did that the number of kids you want changes. I thought I wanted six or so and ended up with 3+a great step kid and was done done done.
Really insightful seeing it is possible to have many kids. I think I will also shadow a doctor who has many kids so I can see how it works in the day to day life.


The real question is when will you have five children? Most medical schools limit you to 6 maximum years to completion unless you are taking a research track or completing a second degree. Unless you plan on taking no time off, in which case, somebody is going to be looking after your kids that isn't you, so you'd better have a supportive husband or family. I worked at a hospital with a daycare for residents once, but they are rare. And while you might technically be able to take time from residency for childbirth, the practical issues would quickly make themselves apparent and you'd be in a messy situation come your fifth year of a three year residency with your fifth child on the way...
If I do get into medicine, and that's a large if- I wouldn't be having five children in my 3rd year of residency. I likely will have kids until the age of 38 and then stop having children.
 
Really insightful seeing it is possible to have many kids. I think I will also shadow a doctor who has many kids so I can see how it works in the day to day life.



If I do get into medicine, and that's a large if- I wouldn't be having five children in my 3rd year of residency. I likely will have kids until the age of 38 and then stop having children.
Quite optimistic of you to assume you'll be fully fertile until the age of 38. As an attending you'll have options, in any case, and depending on the field, you might also have time
 
@Sunbodi I’m not a mother or doctor (yet!), but I’ve had this same question on my mind as well. I’ve read multiple threads and articles about being a MD mom and people have sssoo different opinions on it. I think everyone has a different life situation so their opinions shouldn’t be taken as ultimate. Do you have a family thst could help with raising the kids? Is you child healthy or do they have a severe disability that requires medical attention and/or assistance 24/7? Does your husband work full time? Is your medical school known for online lectures, 8-12 lectures, or mandatory attendance 7 hours every day? What residency do you wish to pursue? All these questions and many more have very different answers from every MD mom (or dad) thus you’ll end up getting very different views on parenthood !

One thing that I will say is that I’ve been around surgeons for a long time now (in a surgery department of a big hospital), and I have NEVER heard of any doctor, lady or a gentleman, saying that parenthood is nearly impossible or they feel like they don’t know their children. And these are busy busy busy surgeons I’m talking about! One of the lady surgeons is currently pregnant with her third child! Majority of the older male surgeons have children and the younger ones are becoming fathers (they’re always showing off their beautiful newborn’s pictures and since everyone’s friends there, people know if you’ve just become a parent).

Like I said, I’m just a pre-med so I don’t have personal experience about parenthood but what I have seen and witnessed, it’s not nearly all that bad as some people make it seem. Im sure it’s not easy (raising a new human being can’t be easy to anyone right?), but don’t get so discouraged because of the comments of the people on the internet. Find a real person who is a mom MD (I’m sure you’ll find a BUNCH of them!!!), and talk to them. People seem to be more honest in real life than here on sdn

Best of luck to you!!
 
There are a decent number of folks in my med school who have kids (including women who had kids in med school and some who had kids before starting med school). I've also met plenty of women doctors who are moms. That's not to say it isn't without challenges and sacrifices, but of course it's doable.

In terms of childcare, most of the women I know who have kids work full time and do use childcare services like daycare or nannies, but I don't think it's fair to say that they aren't raising their kids. When I was growing up I had babysitters, spent most of my time in school and did lots of after school activities. Both my parents worked a lot but I've always been close with them and never once felt like they weren't the people who raised me. We spent a lot of quality time together as a family which IMO is what really matters. The parents I've met in medicine may work long hours and not be the ones doing full time childcare, but that's not to say they don't get to make time to spend with their kids.

If you want to be a stay at home parent, then yeah that is going to be hard if you become a doctor, but it will also be hard in many fields. Even if you work part time you will still need some help with childcare. I have friends who are moms and aren't doctors but are PAs, nurses, social worker - they all work full time and their kids are in daycare, so definitely not exclusive to women who are doctors.

My school has a women in medicine group and they had a panel session with a bunch of women surgeons who all had kids. Some of them had spouses who stayed at home to take care of the kids, but others were married to people who also worked long hours. A common theme was that the hardest part was during residency, but they all found ways to make it work.
 
Quite optimistic of you to assume you'll be fully fertile until the age of 38. As an attending you'll have options, in any case, and depending on the field, you might also have time
If you finish school age 26 and have babies at 25, 27, 29, 31, 33 you’ve still got time to spare for a couple extra if you want. Biology permitting. If I had continued at the pace of my first 3 I could have 8 or 9 today. But having those kids out of diapers and sleeping all night was a great help to getting through school and residency.
 
If you finish school age 26 and have babies at 25, 27, 29, 31, 33 you’ve still got time to spare for a couple extra if you want. Biology permitting. If I had continued at the pace of my first 3 I could have 8 or 9 today. But having those kids out of diapers and sleeping all night was a great help to getting through school and residency.
The earliest most people are going to finish residency is 29, and being out every 9 months will basically tank your income and career trajectory if you do it five times. Given that the average matriculant is 24 these days, more likely you'll be starting at 31 fresh out of residency. Fertility is still there, but it's going to be devastating to your career depending on how you swing it. I've seen more than one person that had three plus kids that essentially got thrown on the mommy track schedule because things became too hectic and her partners came to view her as unreliable. This means your upward mobility is basically over.
 
People don’t spawn every 9 months man. Even Irish twins are not very usual.

Is it a trade off of unlimited upward mobility and physical mobility, yes it is. I don’t suppose a person with no desire for children would have followed anything like my personal trajectory, and I have certainly, knowingly and intentionally limited my choices and opportunities and income potential - but for a purpose that is totally good and satisfying for me. And life as a practicing physician with the family my spouse and I wanted is good.
 
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From what I've observed, if I wanted to have that many children, I would have a couple before med school, essentially delaying matriculation by 2-4 years post bachelor's, then have another during tail end 3rd year/beginning 4th year (many 4th years I've talked to said it's the best time), and then have a couple more after intern year/1st year residency.

Or you could have 1 kid during med school 3rd/4th year and then the rest of them starting 2nd year of residency. But you're probably going to want to take the full amount of FMLA with each kid, which means you push your residency graduation date further and further.
 
The earliest most people are going to finish residency is 29, and being out every 9 months will basically tank your income and career trajectory if you do it five times. Given that the average matriculant is 24 these days, more likely you'll be starting at 31 fresh out of residency. Fertility is still there, but it's going to be devastating to your career depending on how you swing it. I've seen more than one person that had three plus kids that essentially got thrown on the mommy track schedule because things became too hectic and her partners came to view her as unreliable. This means your upward mobility is basically over.
You're making an assumption that individuals don't breed during medical school and residency. It happens.
 
You're making an assumption that individuals don't breed during medical school and residency. It happens.
They do, but there are limits on timelines and such that would make just having five kids during that period of time untenable if you wanted to spend any reasonable period of time with your children. Most residencies allow a maximum of four weeks off per year for any reason, children included, after which time must be made up. Institutions are at their discretion in that regard. With regard to medical school itself, you are limited to six years at many schools for all but the most extenuating of circumstances, and stretching it beyond four years hurts your chances of residency unless you've got a damn good excuse, of which children aren't generally considered one. So feel free to have as many children as you'd like, just know you're going to have to have someone else taking care of them.

Medscape: Medscape Access
 
From what I've observed, if I wanted to have that many children, I would have a couple before med school, essentially delaying matriculation by 2-4 years post bachelor's, then have another during tail end 3rd year/beginning 4th year (many 4th years I've talked to said it's the best time), and then have a couple more after intern year/1st year residency.

Or you could have 1 kid during med school 3rd/4th year and then the rest of them starting 2nd year of residency. But you're probably going to want to take the full amount of FMLA with each kid, which means you push your residency graduation date further and further.
I think I could probably do 1 child in medical school and wait on the rest until after residency if I do get in.
 
I think I could probably do 1 child in medical school and wait on the rest until after residency if I do get in.

Or you could just not have five kids. Why is that many kids so important to you? Especially when you haven’t had one yet. Wait until you have a couple before you decide you want five.
 
My advice would be to do a relatively short residency that doesn't require a fellowship - psych, EM, family practice, IM (outpatient or hospitalist track), rehab medicine, maybe anesthesiology, and start having children in residency. It will be difficult, but you (and your partner, if applicable) will be able to make it work. Medicine is becoming more accommodating of women and mothers (and fathers), so you're not going to get kicked out for having children. But focusing on growing a family may prevent you from pursuing research and other opportunities that may make you more competitive for a fellowship. What you want can be done - and has been done by many other women before you.
 
I would suggest finding some real live women that have had children in medical school/residency and speaking to them. SDN is not always the best source for this type of question and you’ll be left feeling discouraged. One big piece of advice though: do not let anyone make you feel like a bad mother for putting your kids in childcare. It will not affect your children at all and your relationship with them in the future will be just fine. It’s all part of the patriarchal bs that permeates our society, trying to keep women at home and out of the workplace.
 
I would not consider residency as a good time to have kids for women. Not only are you prolonging your residency by having to make up the time you take off for maternity leave but you'll be stressed out as well. There's no right time for having kids but there are definitely bad times like during residency.
 
I'm placing this in pre-med because I'm a pre-med but also so that pre-meds who are interested in planning out parenthood can know when to start planning. If this thread fits better in a different subforum feel free to move it.

Hello guys, I want to know when the best time period for a person interested in medicine is to have children. I am not talking 1 or 2 children maximum, I'm talking more along the lines of 5 children.

I know in society it's also a lot easier on men since men are considered the primary breadwinners so I want this to be more on a female focus.

Am I sealing the fate of my children in being raised by nannies or babysitters? I want to be an integral part of their lives, I'm just worried that I would have to choose between child rearing and medicine and it's tough having that thought when other fields have become more female friendly over the years.

Could hospitals potentially have daycares so that mothers on break can help their kids?

Also would psychiatry be a good residency for such mothers?

This question is really multifaceted since it tackles all parts of the medical process, I need to know if I have to choose between one or the other.

Thanks

Edit: For women who have done it or for women you know who have done it, when did they start having kids? (Keep in mind I want around 5 not 1 or 2)

I'll just admit up front that I have no children and there's at least a plausible chance I will not be having any, so everything I state below is hearsay from friends with kids.

There are four times you can have kids if you choose to go into the medical profession: before medical school, during medical school, during residency, or after residency. Sure, this seems like an, "of course, duh" response, but I have a lot of friends who are physicians with children, and there was no running theme in what was the single best time for any of them. It should be noted, however, that ALL of them recommended AGAINST having children right BEFORE or DURING clinical rotations or Intern Year of your residency. I know someone who did this and made it work, though, so it can be done.

First, do you have a serious significant other who is interested in getting married and having children? Keep in mind that there are no guarantees in life and you may never get married or you might not be able to have children. You need to consider your life taking into account where you are right now and where you want to be in the future. There's absolutely nothing wrong with thinking ahead and planning things out, but also take advantage of where you are now. If you are not in a serious relationship right now, then move forward with med school plans and plan on having children later if and when you have the opportunity. OTOH, I know people in the nontrad forum who already have children and are heading into medical school now. I can see certain advantages of this (you already have the whole parenting thing down, your kids saw you during their more formative years, etc.), but it would mean postponing matriculation. I only recommend this if you are already in a committed relationship and thinking of getting married and starting a family right after - or even during (God bless you) college.

Everyone has different abilities to deal with stress, multitasking, and life in general. I do not believe I could handle having children and trying to get through my first two years of med school. It would be close to a disaster to try to do it during my third year. Fourth year, however - fourth year may be a possibility. Your ability to have children as a medical student, resident, or physician depend on your support network. My friends who have managed to have children during medical school and residency have had to make huge sacrifices and depend on a support network - many live close to family members that help out, or have had nannies when both spouses were really busy, or have had a spouse that works almost exclusively from home and can do the lion's share of the work. The ones who have had children during medical school have said it's not that difficult or impossible to have children during first or second year if you have a school that is flexible with requirements, and they have all recommended being pregnant during third year (if you are lucky enough to plan these things out) and having a child during fourth year. All would say not to touch intern year, but being pregnant toward the end of intern year is not a complete disaster. I have one friend in residency with a wife who stays home with the kids and it works out because of financial support from both families. There are many ways to make it work, but there absolutely will be sacrifices. You may have to consider different specialties if you want to be at home a bit more with your children. And you will have to at least consider having a nannie for certain times during your training unless your significant other is independently wealthy.

You could theoretically go into any specialty that you want. The family friendliest are probably going to be peds, family med, Radiology, Radiation Oncology, Ophthalmology, Dermatology, EM, Anesthesiology, Psych, or OBGYN (I say this only because I have a friend who is an OBGYN that has stated it's totally doable and some people in her office are part time). This is by no means exhaustive. You can also become a part time physician - you still work more hours than most part time jobs, but it would give you more time with your children. There are three important things to consider with specialties if having five children is the goal: Does this specialty with with my personality, skills, gifts and goals? How much call do physicians in this specialty take? What are the typical hours that physicians work in this specialty and is it possible to work part time or set my own schedule?

There are a lot of things to consider if you want to have a large family and be a physician. It is doable. You will have to make sacrifices. My advice would be to consider the future, but live in the present. Don't put medical school off if you are not in a relationship. Be open to creative ways to make it work. Realize you will never be the perfect physician or the perfect parent. Make sure you are okay with being the world's "okayest parent." Also, keep in mind that not everyone who wants children will be able to have them. Be open to the possibility of adoption or fostering. Be prepared to plan ahead, while also realizing you have little control over the future.

PM if you have specific questions. Again, I have no kids, but I can give you an example for every situation I state above and tell you what my friends told me about how they handled having a family and being a medical student/resident/physician.
 
Wait a minute.... a few months ago you were looking forward to meeting a man for your first kiss. You lock a man down that fast? Or you going this alone?
Haha. I'm having kids regardless of if I marry or not (adoption). I love children.
 
Haha. I'm having kids regardless of if I marry or not (adoption). I love children.
Adoption is great, but you still need to take the time off to bond with your child which could push your education (med school and residency) back further. Generally speaking, children in the system have a lot of "issues," through no fault of their own, which will take a lot of time and energy from you to figure out how to work through them and be the best parent for them.

If you decide to foster first, you have to take into consideration the time you'll need to be at home for social work visits, visits from the child's attorney/CASA volunteer, going to court periodically, taking them to doctor's visits, meeting with school personnel to go over IEPs, etc., etc.
 
My school's hospital has a daycare for faculty. I don't think residents are included but other faculty can have their kids stay there. It's a block away from the hospital, and I know some faculty (not doctors but researchers) will visit their kids over lunch break.
 
Most women in my residency who had a baby did not go off cycle. It does seem somewhat inhumane to have to go back to work at 6-8 weeks but it is done. Or you can go off cycle and that’s not the end of the world either.

Agree that worst times would be M3 and intern year, other times doable.
 
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