Mount Sinai Florida Desinated Prelim Interview??

[otis86]

Has anybody gotten an interview from Mount Sinai Florida as a designated surgical prelim?? I interviewed at another department and the PD said he would definitely try to facilitate an interview at the Surgical department for a designated prelim position? I applied really late, 10 days ago actually for a designated prelim mainly at the advice from the PD at the other department, any advice would be great? Thanks.

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[Winged Scapula]

My advice is to be patient.

You applied 10 days ago in the middle of the holiday season when staffing is at a minimum and most surgical department have already given out their interview slots. You may wish to call that particular department to see if they actually interview designated pre-lims. Many places do not.

 

[otis86]

@Winged Scapula- really some places don't interview designated prelims? I haven't heard of that before. So you just apply via ERAS? The PD of the other department I interviewed at said after he contacted the surgical PD he recommended applying and would do his best to facilitate an interview, so I think they do interview but I am not sure. Thanks and happy holidays to you!

 

[Winged Scapula]

@Winged Scapula- really some places don't interview designated prelims? I haven't heard of that before. So you just apply via ERAS? The PD of the other department I interviewed at said after he contacted the surgical PD he recommended applying and would do his best to facilitate an interview, so I think they do interview but I am not sure. Thanks and happy holidays to you!

As noted above, it depends on the program.

We didn't and don't interview for designated positions but rather just set aside those spots for the subspecialty interns in other departments. We figure if you're good enough for those other departments we can tolerate you for the year that you're with us. That way we don't waste any interview resources that could be used elsewhere.

We also don't specifically interview for non-designated positions although sometimes those will be offered to someone home we might not rank for a categorical spot but that's an exception rather than the rule.

The program director of the subspecialty probably isn't in a position to discuss whether general surgery interviews for those positions. You need to be discussing this with the general surgery department as they would know best what their usual policy is.

 

[surgicel]

I'm guessing designated prelim spots are 1-2 years for those interested in Gen Surgery but not as competitive for categorical spots and those who were left out of other matches i.e. ortho, plastics, neuro etc

I thought many programs who interview rather than get applicants through SOAP

any idea of around how many designated prelim spots there are in the country? I'm trying to get a feel for how things are for designated prelims in the next few years if you wish to move in gen surg to categorical.

 

[surgicel]

That's backwards.

UNdesignated prelim spots are 1 year (very, very, very rarely 2 year) general surgery spots. They are for applicants who are interested in having SOME spot in a residency program after failing to find suitable alternatives anywhere else.

The number of prelim spots available, as well as the breakdown of how many are filled in the match vs in the scramble/SOAP is publicly available on the NRMP website.

DESIGNATED prelim spots are, as the title implies, designated. I.e. you spend 1 year as a general surgery intern, then move on to your advanced position. They come hand in hand with the advanced match. They are also increasingly rare, as advanced/subspecialty programs now take increasing ownership over their interns.

thanks for the clarification so I looked at the match data and saw there were 1,200 Surgery Prelim positions for the 2013 match and only 800 were filled, 400 went unfilled, does that category combine designated and undesignated prelim together.

Why are there so many empty spots in prelim surgery?

btw you mentioned that undesignated spots go rarely beyond 1 year, I know a person that was a PGY-3 prelim before converting to a categorical PGY-4, but I guess that is the exception rather than the rule I guess there are spots like that but extremely rare through-out the country.

 

[Winged Scapula]

thanks for the clarification so I looked at the match data and saw there were 1,200 Surgery Prelim positions for the 2013 match and only 800 were filled, 400 went unfilled, does that category combine designated and undesignated prelim together.

These are mostly non-designated but if programs are offering Designated Prelims in the SOAP, that may account for some.

Why are there so many empty spots in prelim surgery?

Surgical training programs are notorious (fair or not) for being difficult. If given a choice, residents would prefer a non-surgical Transitional or Medicine Prelim year, almost without fail. Since there is very little guarantee that the positions translate into a full training position, most would rather accept something categorical in another specialty.

btw you mentioned that undesignated spots go rarely beyond 1 year, I know a person that was a PGY-3 prelim before converting to a categorical PGY-4, but I guess that is the exception rather than the rule I guess there are spots like that but extremely rare through-out the country.

Yes, exceptions do exist. However, your friend did not get a 3 year position: he either did a separate year at 3 different programs, perhaps 2, or was kept on at his PGY-1 program for multiple years before being given a Categorical position. This is very stressful for the resident and has been used in the past to abuse residents, who are kept on for several years, never to be offered a Categorical spot. The ABS has placed limits on such practices.

 

[otis86]

im still waiting to hear from them, im going into non-surgical specialty by the way, so yeah.

 

[surgicel]

I understand that most prelim spots are dead-end spots but...

Lets suppose if one has to do a prelim year is it best to take prelim at one of the top programs in the country since they're well known and can maybe get one a categorical spot somewhere through their connections

or

Should one apply to a middle/lower tier surgery program (including community programs) as they have a higher prediction to take you as a categorical next year assuming you do a decent job and the competition isn't that cut throat

Also
Should an applicant always take the lowest categorical spot (even if it is community) over a good prelim spot
I only ask this b/c a program director advised me not to go the community route and take prelim at a good program stating that it would affect my chances of a fellowship later on

 

[surgicel]

I've done a search to look for previous posts on prelim surgery but haven't really found anything deep. If you guys know can you throw some program names, where it is better to do a prelim year, one not as malignant hopefully and gives a decent chance at landing a catergorical spot the next year even if it is PGY-1