Mountains - Game Thread

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Viscernable said:
Was the Z read vs shorty read really relevant at this point? I think by here it was pretty inevitable she would have to self prez to sunny - i will check. But strikes me as possibly distancing and trying too hard to justify voting for someone she knows will flip village
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Agreed, especially after she was like "PSV is definitely a wolf!!!" and then said she hadn't wanted to vote with shorty and zenge. It would be one thing if she switched for self prez alone but this justification is just super weird.
 
Viscernable said:
Okay so it was 3:3:2 before her move. Not entirely inevitable but I’m still thinking on whether the Z read was truly relevant
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Yes, and she stated she's terrible at reading Zenge later on, which shorty called her out on, iirc.
 
Crayola227 said:
More zenge than shorty. I have an atrocious record of reading zenge.
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I actually couldn't find shorty's response to this but I swear something happened.
Crayola227 said:
Just gonna sheep Zenge and Shorty. Doubt the goons can kill both tonight so hopefully not putting too much pressure on them.
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This is weird as heck given Cray had stated previously she understood there are no PRs in this game. Totally vanilla= no extra goon kills.
 
potentialsheltervet said:
Agreed, especially after she was like "PSV is definitely a wolf!!!" and then said she hadn't wanted to vote with shorty and zenge. It would be one thing if she switched for self prez alone but this justification is just super weird.
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I agree with this point, in retrospect it definitely looks like it could be over-justification.

If we were to think that everyone was on the counterwagon, then...

Final Day 3 Yeet Tally
Cray (5) - Vis, PSV, dolphin, speechy, sunshine
sunshine (6) - True, shorty, genny, Cray, mayo, Zenge
True () -
dolphin () -
PSV () -
speechy () -

11/11

Unless Zenge is just absolutely crushing this game as a wolf, it'd be a genny-Cray-Mayo pack.

Which doesn't feel crazy to me.
 
It's not nice like shorty does, but this is what I was able to whip up over my lunch break.

1650909748258.png

A really disturbing amount of green.

My thoughts:

1. @genny, you've been parked on Sunny the entire time. Where are you going now? What are your reads?
2. Dolphin is the only person who's avoided being on any confirmed villagers wagon. Not a bad thing, just noting the outlier.
3. I think one sign that we were going down the wrong yeets is how... smooth they all ended up being? Quiet threads, not much arguing leading up to yeet close, votes moving into place easily, then a misyeet, three days in a row now.
 
I don't want to vote for Zenge, PSV, speechy, or Dolphin today, but I'm honestly open to voting for anyone. We have over a day to think about this, this is a winnable game.
 
To give maximum clarity about where my head is at:

Village

speechy
Zenge
PSV
Dolphin
Crayola
Mayo
genny

Woof

No distinct categories because I am lost and these wolves are very, very good. Speechy is top village read because if she's this good at being a wolf in her first game she's terrifying.
 
Truenamer said:
To give maximum clarity about where my head is at:

Village

speechy
Zenge
PSV
Dolphin
Crayola
Mayo
genny

Woof

No distinct categories because I am lost and these wolves are very, very good. Speechy is top village read because if she's this good at being a wolf in her first game she's terrifying.
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Ugh, sorry, Vis is in between Dolphin and Cray.
 
I still don’t like the way PSV jumped in to defend Dolphin.

I don’t care for the way she’s pushed Cray today. The logic she’s used to make the arguments against her felt very twisty.

I’ve been generally leaning her village, but this is the point where I need to change up my reads and re-evaluate because steady as we go hits the iceberg.


Yeet PSV
 
The eager first-thing-in-the-morning vote from PSV does match wolf!PSV. Thinking about this.
 
Truenamer said:
3. I think one sign that we were going down the wrong yeets is how... smooth they all ended up being? Quiet threads, not much arguing leading up to yeet close, votes moving into place easily, then a misyeet, three days in a row now.
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Do you think D3 felt more like wolf vs village or village vs village tie? Why?
 
Viscernable said:
Do you think D3 felt more like wolf vs village or village vs village tie? Why?
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My gut feels like it was a V/V thing, but I could be wrong.

There was just... so little drama, comparatively. Most of the back and forth that stuck out to me was between shorty and sunny, both confirmed villagers.

It feels like the wolves were able to just sit back and not worry, unless all three of there were the other three on Sunny with me and shorty (genny, mayo, and Cray).
 
Truenamer said:
My gut feels like it was a V/V thing, but I could be wrong.

There was just... so little drama, comparatively. Most of the back and forth that stuck out to me was between shorty and sunny, both confirmed villagers.

It feels like the wolves were able to just sit back and not worry, unless all three of there were the other three on Sunny with me and shorty (genny, mayo, and Cray).
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Thanks. Those three are who I have most concerns about, but if it’s Cray, there’s such a narrow pool of who it can be, and it feels too perfect. Can’t afford to flip Cray just to see because there’s such a wider pool of possible packs if she’s village, so we really couldn’t afford that Cray misyeet. But I would feel so dumb to let it go at this point if it turns out she’s wolf…
 
Viscernable said:
Thanks. Those three are who I have most concerns about, but if it’s Cray, there’s such a narrow pool of who it can be, and it feels too perfect. Can’t afford to flip Cray just to see because there’s such a wider pool of possible packs if she’s village, so we really couldn’t afford that Cray misyeet. But I would feel so dumb to let it go at this point if it turns out she’s wolf…
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Who would you put in a Cray pack?
 
supershorty said:
Looking back through dolphin's posts, here's where I'm coming out.

tl;dr: I don't agree with Zenge's take on some of dolphin's quotes, but I also see very minimal efforts to game solve - not just going off of post number, but off the content within those posts. I quoted quite a few of them where she has a decent block of text, but most of it is just hedging and not actually contributing to game solving. Most notably, there's one post about Barky and Vis that I found really interesting because dolphin's characterization of the gamestate at the time didn't at all reflect what was on the board. She's also had quite a few moments of saying that she's going to get caught up, but then there's no real follow-up from that.

I'd had her in my village reads early on because of a few of her posts tonally sounding village, and I'd liked the analysis in a few, but on reread, I'm not feeling as good about her. I'm intrigued by her reaction to Zenge voting her, and to several of the things that I've quoted in this ISO.

Zenge commented on this, but I don't think I agree with his conclusion. This comment could read as not getting hands dirty with the hedginess (I raised an eyebrow, BUT), but

well actually

I'm not sure I agree with where I was going with that thought because I went and looked at the time stamps. I was going to say that if the wagon hadn't already been building on please, that I wouldn't necessarily agree with the conclusion because of the semi-strong conclusive statement at the end there. However, the wagon at this time already had 3 votes and was the leading wagon, which makes me feel a little less confident in calling it a village (or even NAI) comment versus a wolfy one. It would be a good time to start trying to sow the seeds for a "see, I knew you were wrong" comment for if please was misyeeted.


And then there's a really abrupt turnaround like this - but it's not long after the post I'd quoted immediately above this one, so it's not even like the threadstate had drastically changed at that point and she was just going with the tide. So I'm not sure how I feel about those 2 interactions together.


This was a whole lot of words to say not much substance.

(I know it's rich of me to comment on other people being wordy).


So @dolphin106258, you said this, but you're having a pretty strong reaction to a single vote on you today. Do you feel that it's a push?


She made this post, but there really wasn't much follow up on it, which gives me some wolfy vibes because it can look pro-village to say "look, I'm getting caught up!", but then kind of fading into the woodwork instead of actually following through doesn't feel to me like a villager trying to solve the game.


This is actually a super weird comment to make, looking back at it. At the time that dolphin said this, only 1 vote was even on the board, so while we'd had a fair amount of discussion, to say that people seemed "dialed in" to Vis and Barky was not fitting what the gamestate was. It's also super hedgy and noncommittal at the end. Looks to me like posting without contributing.


I'm apparently the only one in the game who thinks PSV is wolfy, so I'll leave that point alone for now, but having speechy as her second highest village read is just WEIRD to me. She's barely posted. The posts that she's had just scream noob. I don't think speechy is wolfing, for reasons I've explained earlier, but I also raise an eyebrow when someone's highest village read is someone like that. I questioned dolphin on that and she responded, but it wasn't an answer I found particularly satisfying or enlightening. It boiled down to "because overwhelmed noob," which I agree with, but I don't think that's a legitimate reason to strongly village read her.


She said this, but also earlier called out please when she'd said something about wanting to hear more from the lowposters, which I found interesting.


I don't think it's a waste of time to contribute to the game :shrug:

And then all her recent posts have been very defensive.
I'm intrigued.
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I’m still very unsure on this. I see shorty’s points but I’m also cautious of the “dolphin’s always sketch” warnings and feelings that she’s village from those who played with her in the past. But perhaps Paws and Dubz were NK priorities to freeze their reads in a favourable place for her. Idk
 
Zenge142 said:
Who would you put in a Cray pack?
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genny/mayo is top concern. Despite the near-tie I wouldn’t put bussing entirely out of the question with, either with a genny/cray or mayo/Cray pack, since I feel each of those players favour more distancing-heavy play, but it feels weird to think mayo would hop on late to save Cray if he were in a pack with her not going all-in to save her. I’ve not ruled out you/Cray/genny.
 
Viscernable said:
genny/mayo is top concern. Despite the near-tie I wouldn’t put bussing entirely out of the question with, either with a genny/cray or mayo/Cray pack, since I feel each of those players favour more distancing-heavy play, but it feels weird to think mayo would hop on late to save Cray if he were in a pack with her not going all-in to save her. I’ve not ruled out you/Cray/genny.
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I'll add that the thought of a Zenge!wolf has definitely crossed my mind, but I don't know how to approach or handle that, so I'm... just kind of hoping he's village and that shorty had a correct read on him.
 
Okay, I just went back through Vis's posts this game and I'm moving her up my village rankings. I need to do a better job actively paying attention, because there's a lot of earnest gamesolving effort and genuine-feeling reactions that didn't stick in my mind the first time around.
 
Truenamer said:
The eager first-thing-in-the-morning vote from PSV does match wolf!PSV. Thinking about this.
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It's because I've been waking up much earlier than normal and sit around waiting for the thread to open.
I can see genny/mayo as possibilities but now I'm very deep in the tunnel and don't want to be wrong.
 
Is this how stoat feels when she has her "struck by lightning" reads? Idk if I'm insane or correct.
 
Joking aside, usually when she has an unmovable read on someone it's almost always based on specific, clear details or things they've posted. My aversion to voting for genny plus a couple posts she didn't like in MarWWel, for example.
 
Instead of doing my work, I ISO'd genny instead. At least I picked the easiest person to ISO!

genny said:
i kind of want to vote sunny again, but she's only posted 3 times in the past day.
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As far as I can tell there was never a clear explanation for genny's tunnel.

genny said:
Aaaaand this is where I start to get paranoid that shorty is keeping me around for endgame because she knows I’m gullible. Pre-concert!genny is rather jumpy.
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A little shade on shorty, nothing that stands out...

genny said:
who's shaded shorty today? vis, psv, speechy, and now sunny? i'm making a list.
Click to expand...
And then... shade on the people shading shorty? Having a hard time understanding the point of this. Like, genny is also on this list.

Big thing that keeps bothering me is her vote behavior, I mean just look at this:
genny said:
yeet sunny
Click to expand...
genny said:
yeet sunny
Click to expand...
genny said:
yeet sunny
Click to expand...
Every day, with no preamble or explanation, and usually just a preceding post being like "should I vote sunny? hmmm".

Not going to vote yet but this screams "wolf parked on a safe vote, gliding under everyone's notice, occasionally tossing 'hms' and shade" to me and I don't think I'm being unfair to say that.
 
Truenamer said:
Instead of doing my work, I ISO'd genny instead. At least I picked the easiest person to ISO!

As far as I can tell there was never a clear explanation for genny's tunnel.


A little shade on shorty, nothing that stands out...


And then... shade on the people shading shorty? Having a hard time understanding the point of this. Like, genny is also on this list.

Big thing that keeps bothering me is her vote behavior, I mean just look at this:



Every day, with no preamble or explanation, and usually just a preceding post being like "should I vote sunny? hmmm".

Not going to vote yet but this screams "wolf parked on a safe vote, gliding under everyone's notice, occasionally tossing 'hms' and shade" to me and I don't think I'm being unfair to say that.
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I went back and looked at StardeWW and her behavior is nearly identical, naked yeet votes with no explanation offered, minimal content discussion, just a few small posts each day to get to the minimum. No pushes, never raises a fuss, takes some credit for voting for a wolf (because she was cult) but otherwise isn't engaged in active wolfhunting.

My Iso from StardeWW said:
Truenamer said:
Only two pages of genny posts, easiest ISO ever. She's barely been above the minimum each day.

Unfortunately, it didn't clear much up for me, but I'd love feedback.


tl;dr There just isn't much to go off of, she's barely meeting posting minimums, has only one or two posts with meaty analysis, but was good at sniffing out a wolf one time.
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Click to expand...

Can people with more genny-experience talk me out of this? I know it's the middle of the workday, this is just really bothering me.
 
Well, I'm not a wolf. Very unfortunate about Sunny.
potentialsheltervet said:
Yeah, looking at vote analysis strongest two wolf reads are Cray and mayo. I've seen Cray like a few of my posts lately but I guess she doesn't have time to respond to me.
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Doing the best I can
 
Zenge142 said:
A lot of her arguments on you felt like a stretch
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I'm with you Zenge.

I'm worried about a PSV and Visc pack. No idea going by votes or anything else if compatible, and if they are, who the 3rd is. Mayo? I honestly am not following the game closely enough to be more help, sorry everyone.
 
Crayola227 said:
I'm with you Zenge.

I'm worried about a PSV and Visc pack. No idea going by votes or anything else if compatible, and if they are, who the 3rd is. Mayo? I honestly am not following the game closely enough to be more help, sorry everyone.
Click to expand...
Really not feeling Vissy, and she was the very first wolf I ever detected (on D1 of my first game! Entirely beginners luck, but still). But I'll do my due diligence on her tonight.

Do you have genny-feelings?
 
Truenamer said:
Really not feeling Vissy, and she was the very first wolf I ever detected (on D1 of my first game! Entirely beginners luck, but still). But I'll do my due diligence on her tonight.

Do you have genny-feelings?
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Yeah, I was suspicious of Vis in the early game, but I’ve come around to village!Vis.
 
I'm second guessing my tunnel but I don't want to choke.
Dubz would make sense as a kill target for genny, methinks. Hmm...
 
Truenamer said:
Really not feeling Vissy, and she was the very first wolf I ever detected (on D1 of my first game! Entirely beginners luck, but still). But I'll do my due diligence on her tonight.

Do you have genny-feelings?
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Genny is a very tough read for me. I don't know. She could be. It's hard for me to read her early sus on me if genuine or not.
 
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