Moving States to Improve Chances

[MediocreParamedic]

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Greetings all!

First some background. I currently live in a state that has zero MD schools and one DO school. My state is covered under UWs' WWAMI program which historically has about a 20-25% acceptance rate for my state. I also would be able to access a special program for admittance into U of U's MD program, but the acceptance rate is not well documented. My question is this:

Would it be a good idea to move to another state with more in-state schools (i.e. Texas, California, etc.) and establish residency there prior to application? This would provide me an advantage both during application, as well as financially if I were accepted.

Thanks!

 

[deleted1044561]

As a CA resident, DO NOT move to CA lol. You'll probably be worse off in CA considering only a couple schools here have strong preference for IS and they have very specific missions to serve particular areas of CA

You need to live and breath a state for a year before applying to establish residency. I would do Nebraska or North Dakota. Texas is okay but you'll be discriminated against by OOS schools

 

[GreenDuck12]

Greetings all!

First some background. I currently live in a state that has zero MD schools and one DO school. My state is covered under UWs' WWAMI program which historically has about a 20-25% acceptance rate for my state. I also would be able to access a special program for admittance into U of U's MD program, but the acceptance rate is not well documented. My question is this:

Would it be a good idea to move to another state with more in-state schools (i.e. Texas, California, etc.) and establish residency there prior to application? This would provide me an advantage both during application, as well as financially if I were accepted.

Thanks!

A 20-25% chance is nothing to sneeze at, especially at one of the best public medical schools in the country.

 

[Splenda88]

If you can tolerate living in WV...

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

OP, I suspect you are from Idaho. If that is correct, you should maintain your Idaho residence and apply from there. When considering the impact that state of residence has on an applicant's chances of admission, the key data point is the average MCAT score for matriculants from various states. The lower, the better. In the fall 2019 MD class the average MCAT score among Idaho matriculants was 510.1 while the national average was 511.5. Your parents must be brilliant strategists. 😉

Matriculation rate i.e. (matriculants from a specific state/applicants from the same state) is a poor metric of the probability of acceptance for any individual from that state because it does not account for self exclusion. Every year loads of people make market based decisions to throw in the towel and do something other than applying to an MD school if admission from their state is unlikely. For example, the average MCAT score among applicants from California is higher than the average MCAT score for matriculants from six different states. See these tables.

https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2019-11/2019_FACTS_Table_A-19.pdf

https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2019-11/2019_FACTS_Table_A-20.pdf

I see numerous SDN threads started by people who think that changing their state of residence will improve their likelihood of getting admitted. This is not as simple as it may appear. First, people need to stare at the tables above. Second, they need to take a hard look at the state law that applies to medical school admissions in the states that have lower MCAT averages. Finally, and this is the hard part, they need to look at the unwritten policies of state medical schools admissions offices regarding applicants who suddenly wander in claiming that their new home state is paradise. Consider the case of Buchwald v. New Mexico. In this case an applicant moved into New Mexico, a low average MCAT state, and applied to the UNM medical school after she met all of the legal criteria for admission as a state resident. The UNM admissions office rejected her on the grounds that she wouldn't stay in New Mexico even though she was now a state resident under the law. She sued in federal court on the grounds that the admissions office violated the equal protection clause, her right to travel etc. etc. The applicant ultimately lost because the court found that the medical school had a compelling interest in assuring that New Mexico would have enough physicians.

Buchwald v. Univ. of New Mexico Sch. of Med, 159 F.3d 487 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Buchwald v. Univ. of New Mexico Sch. of Med, 159 F.3d 487, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

If I were to move to a new state to improve my chance at admission, two states I'd look at would be Ohio and Michigan. Those states do not have above average MCAT scores among matriculants, they have loads of MD seats, and, they have huge DO schools as a back up that are fairly priced for in state students.

 

[UWIdahoan]

No, stay in Idaho and apply as an Idaho student. Apply to UW, Utah, Nevada, PNWU, ICOM, wherever else you feel like, etc. Idahoans acceptance rate to medical school is great.

 

[Blanky]

Texas is loyal and look at those tuition prices!

 

[KnightDoc]

Texas is loyal and look at those tuition prices!

Yes, but it's a double-edged sword. Because of that, TX OOS applicants have a more difficult time than OOS applicants from other states, and, as the great @gonnif has pointed out:

And despite what people think Texas has a significantly lower matriculation rate than does AMCAS aggregate

 

[Isoval]

I would not move to Texas.

Texas has a significantly lower matriculation rate than the AMCAS aggregate which includes TCOM. Despite what people think, Texas is quite a competitive state albeit an ecosystem of its own, but it's not as bad as California. Not even close. Don't touch California with a ten-foot pole. I'm fairly sure California has the worst chances for in-state acceptance of all states and is the largest exporter of medical students by a mile.

You're also suiciding your chances out of Texas for most schools and would have to wait at least a year before being considered a Texas resident.

 

[Catalystik]

You need to live and breath a state for a year before applying to establish residency.

For a few states it's longer, like up to five years. And "residency" for in-state tuition purposes can be different than how long it takes to become a vote-eligible state resident.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

I would not move to Texas.

Texas has a significantly lower matriculation rate than the AMCAS aggregate which includes TCOM. Despite what people think, Texas is quite a competitive state albeit an ecosystem of its own, but it's not as bad as California. Not even close. Don't touch California with a ten-foot pole. I'm fairly sure California has the worst chances for in-state acceptance of all states and is the largest exporter of medical students by a mile.

You're also suiciding your chances out of Texas for most schools and would have to wait at least a year before being considered a Texas resident.

Actually, there are three states that are even worse than California. They are Massachusetts, New Hampshire & Rhode Island. All of those states have matriculant average MCAT scores that are higher than California's. UMass is a small med school and neither New Hampshire nor Rhode Island have a state owned medical school. Maybe being a coastie isn't so great?

 

[Isoval]

Actually, there are three states that are even worse than California. They are Massachusetts, New Hampshire & Rhode Island. All of those states have matriculant average MCAT scores that are higher than California's. UMass is a small med school and neither New Hampshire nor Rhode Island have a state owned medical school. Maybe being a coastie isn't so great?

Yikes.

 

[sw99]

Greetings all!

First some background. I currently live in a state that has zero MD schools and one DO school. My state is covered under UWs' WWAMI program which historically has about a 20-25% acceptance rate for my state. I also would be able to access a special program for admittance into U of U's MD program, but the acceptance rate is not well documented. My question is this:

Would it be a good idea to move to another state with more in-state schools (i.e. Texas, California, etc.) and establish residency there prior to application? This would provide me an advantage both during application, as well as financially if I were accepted.

Thanks!

The stats you quoted don't line up w/the MSAR, which statistically has shown that <10% of all students who apply eventually end up being accepted. I believe you're misinterpreting the statistics. ~50% of those who get interviews are admitted; therefore your chances are about half of what you're estimating, which makes a big difference.

 

[sw99]

Not a good idea btw

 

[MediocreParamedic]

The stats you quoted don't line up w/the MSAR, which statistically has shown that <10% of all students who apply eventually end up being accepted. I believe you're misinterpreting the statistics. ~50% of those who get interviews are admitted; therefore your chances are about half of what you're estimating, which makes a big difference.

If you look at the WWAMI program statistics, you will see the average number of applicants per state (Wyoming, Alaska, Montana, and Idaho) is 108.5 in 2019. Each state is allotted an average of 27.5 seats. This would mean the average acceptance rate overall would be about 25.4%

Acceptance Statistics | UW Medicine

Learn more about UW School of Medicine acceptance rates. Applied: 7,572. Admitted: 358 (4.73%). 96% of our class on average are residents of WA, WY, AK, MO or ID.

www.uwmedicine.org

 

[aldol16]

As a CA resident, DO NOT move to CA lol. You'll probably be worse off in CA considering only a couple schools here have strong preference for IS and they have very specific missions to serve particular areas of CA

Although once you get in and are a resident, I hear that in-state tuition is pretty nice.

 

[Dr.JMoon]

If I were you i would move somewhere down south ex. Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina or Oklahoma (State MD and state DO school). Good luck

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

If I were you i would move somewhere down south ex. Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina or Oklahoma (State MD and state DO school). Good luck

Moving to the south is a fool's errand. The admissions officers at those places can smell a fraud a mile away. If someone from the north is going to move to improve their chance at admission, Ohio and Michigan are the best choice.

 

[askdf1839]

It sounds like you're from Idaho. Every year, the U of U matriculates 10 students from Idaho out of a class of approximately 120. From what I was told, 100 are Utah residents, 10 are Idaho residents, and the last 10 are from other states. This is not as bad as it sounds since a lot more Utah residents than Idaho residents apply to U of U. You should also have a decent chance at UW with the WWAMI program. And for private schools, often times applying from Idaho will actually give you an advantage. Idaho tends to be underrepresented in medicine and most schools look for regional diversity.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[openstage]

Many schools are looking for people with an interest in rural medicine. This can be a great talking point on essays.

 

[JoaoMoutinho]

For a few states it's longer, like up to five years. And "residency" for in-state tuition purposes can be different than how long it takes to become a vote-eligible state resident.

If I remember correctly, Massachusetts requires 7 consecutive years of being a resident.

 

[Wolvvs]

If I remember correctly, Massachusetts requires 7 consecutive years of being a resident.

This is correct. And if you move into MA to go to college, those years don't count. I've had an MA driver's license for 10 years but still got denied in-state tuition at UMass....

 

[deleted994889]

IMO if you have the guts to move to another state and work for a year or more, I think you have the guts to destroy a post-bacc and MCAT (re)take and improve your chances drastically at every school, not just a little at a few.

 

[UWIdahoan]

If you look at the WWAMI program statistics, you will see the average number of applicants per state (Wyoming, Alaska, Montana, and Idaho) is 108.5 in 2019. Each state is allotted an average of 27.5 seats. This would mean the average acceptance rate overall would be about 25.4%

Acceptance Statistics | UW Medicine

Learn more about UW School of Medicine acceptance rates. Applied: 7,572. Admitted: 358 (4.73%). 96% of our class on average are residents of WA, WY, AK, MO or ID.

www.uwmedicine.org

While using the data provided from UW is much better than using MSAR's, which presents UW's data in a confusing way, your method for providing an average is odd. It needs to be calculated by state. The number of students accepted from each state each year is set, does not change, and is quite different for each state. And students are only compared to their own states cohort, making them only definable on their own. Each state has a different acceptance rate. Idaho's is quite high.

Utah's % accepted for Idaho is harder to calculate. They always accept 10, but are not as transparent about how many Idaho students apply, so the calculation is difficult. If you assume all the students applying to UW also apply to Utah (because they should), the percentage accepted to Utah is lower, but it's 10 more seats for Idahoans and around the same number of students applying, making your overall likelihood of being accepted to one or the other a touch higher.

Again, ICOM and PNWU both specifically have soft spots for Idahoans, and I believe Nevada continues to give them special consideration as well.

Applying to medical school as an Idahoan is actually advantageous in my opinion. I would not waste your time trying to establish yourself in another state, which could take years, for what is likely no benefit.

Edit: Also, reading your original post, you state that moving might benefit you financially. Could you further explain this? Do you mean because you would get in-state tuition? Because as an Idahoan, you would get in state tuition both at Utah and UW.

 

[Aria MD???]

You could also consider VT as an option. There are very few IS applicants for UVM so essentially all of them get an interview. However, UVM is strict with granting IS tuition. I moved to VT 2 years before I would matriculate at UVM and was denied IS tuition. They are notorious for being very strict in granting IS tuition and I just didn’t have enough supporting documentation.

That being said your chances of acceptance as an IS student are pretty good. The Med school itself does not determine residency. They just go off what you put in AMCAS and do a kind of non-rolling decision in December for IS. Once you are accepted you have to prove VT residency. If you are deemed OOS, it’s not the end of the world. You still keep your acceptance but pay OOS tuition.

But if you can actually got IS tuition, they also commonly offer interest free loans to Vermonters. It’s just putting all your eggs in one basket (only one MD school).


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[tessellations]

Actually, there are three states that are even worse than California. They are Massachusetts, New Hampshire & Rhode Island. All of those states have matriculant average MCAT scores that are higher than California's. UMass is a small med school and neither New Hampshire nor Rhode Island have a state owned medical school. Maybe being a coastie isn't so great?

Can confirm this. I'm a MA resident with good stats. I got WL at UMass and was rejected from all the other med schools in the state. Looking like I will be moving to NY state for medical school!

Also as others have said you have to have lived in MA for seven years to be considered IS. Most MA residents have to leave the state for medical school. Maine is also tough because they also don't have a state school (Tufts does have a Maine track and there's a DO school but neither are "cheap" by IS tuition standards).

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Can confirm this. I'm a MA resident with good stats. I got WL at UMass and was rejected from all the other med schools in the state. Looking like I will be moving to NY state for medical school!

Also as others have said you have to have lived in MA for seven years to be considered IS. Most MA residents have to leave the state for medical school. Maine is also tough because they also don't have a state school (Tufts does have a Maine track and there's a DO school but neither are "cheap" by IS tuition standards).

First, congratulations on getting into medical school. Your hard work and talent paid off.

Second, you had a LizzyM score of 74.8 and you didn't get into UMASS medical school? Crikey! I wouldn't be surprised if you got off the WL at UMass. Wait as long as you can to sign a lease in New York.

 

[tessellations]

First, congratulations on getting into medical school. Your hard work and talent paid off.

Second, you had a LizzyM score of 74.8 and you didn't get into UMASS medical school? Crikey! I wouldn't be surprised if you got off the WL at UMass. Wait as long as you can to sign a lease in New York.

Thank you! In a bizarre twist of fate, I actually got off the WL at UMass yesterday afternoon. Unfortunately, since they did it before April 30th, I was put into a bit of a tight spot where I had to make my decision quickly with no financial aid from them. I ended up declining UMass' offer because I like my original PTE school better, they gave me scholarships so that it's cheaper than the COA of UMass even with IS tuition, and the school is higher ranked.

Looks like I was at the top of their WL, lol.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Thank you! In a bizarre twist of fate, I actually got off the WL at UMass yesterday afternoon. Unfortunately, since they did it before April 30th, I was put into a bit of a tight spot where I had to make my decision quickly with no financial aid from them. I ended up declining UMass' offer because I like my original PTE school better, they gave me scholarships so that it's cheaper than the COA of UMass even with IS tuition, and the school is higher ranked.

Looks like I was at the top of their WL, lol.

Well, it looks like I'm the second coming of Nostradamus. 🙂 If you like the school in New York better and it's cheaper than UMass, there isn't much to consider. Good job!

 

[ems22]

Moving to the south is a fool's errand. The admissions officers at those places can smell a fraud a mile away. If someone from the north is going to move to improve their chance at admission, Ohio and Michigan are the best choice.

Just curious, I'm an Alabama resident who went to high school for all 4 years in Birmingham, but I'm originally from the Northeast and go to college there. Do I need to be on guard about "being a fraud", or is my love of Birmingham's food scene good enough?

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Just curious, I'm an Alabama resident who went to high school for all 4 years in Birmingham, but I'm originally from the Northeast and go to college there. Do I need to be on guard about "being a fraud", or is my love of Birmingham's food scene good enough?

Your case is unique. Furthermore, I don't about Alabama specifically. Do you have a Boston accent?