Moving to the south

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MainelyOurs said:
Please man, you completely insult the entire human race, let alone all Americans. As if there is some kind of intellectual demarcation line running around the southern states 🙄 .

Why don't you read the rest of the messages before replying to the first one you read?

Southern states are just as progressive as any other states. Just probably not "your" kind of progressive. What you're really talking about are values. From out of one's values comes how we act and defines our lifestyle.

True, what we may actually be talking about could be values. However, to say the South is just as progressive "socially" is ignorant. "Social" Progression could be good or bad, depending on your opinion (I definitely think it's for the better), but it hasn't happened at the same rate in the South as it has in other parts of the country (including very select enclaves in the South, which Wake is apparently not a part.)

I
live in the Northeast but some of the nicest, most cordial people I have met have been from the South. I mean they would cut off an arm for you.
😴

Once again, read the rest of the messages before replying blindly.
 
Because I believe in Auburn....and Love it!
 
Bigsheed920 said:
Here is question to anyone living in charlotte,n.c. or anyone who has knowledge of the area. How is the public transportation there? I do see there r some buses in town. But is public trans. practical for living in the area? THANKS!


Not really, public transportation is there but most people don't use it, basically a car is the best way to get around.
 
I'm from Boston and I must say that I would move to the South in a heartbeat. If I hadn't gotten the axe from Duke, I would have moved to Durham in a second. I could also definitely live in Florida. As much as a love the snow, the cold weather has gotten to me. I would love to be in warm weather for most of the year. I just came back from Spring Break in the Bahamas where everone I met was from Florida and they all said that they were used to hot weather already. I was wicked jealous. All I could think was what an idiot I was to not look into undergrad schools that were in warmer climates. Ah well, I say that in any kind of intellectual enviroment you should be fine politically. I'm friends with a few republicans and they aren't so bad. We just don't talk politics.
 
Shades McCool said:
It is common knowledge that football in the SEC has the most fan support out of any conference. The SEC has changed the way football is done around the country. They were actually talking about it on ESPN radio this morning. They said that if you are a real baseball fan you have to watch a game in Yankee Stadium whether you like them or not. They then said if you are a real college football fan you must go to a big game (AU vs AL, GA vs FL, FL vs TN, Au vs GA) in your lifetime. If you don't then you aren't a real serious fan.


You know I was rooting for you until this post, since I'm from the South, but this post is just damn ignorance pure and simple. I bet you you have never been to a Big 10 game, and that ESPN radio show sounds like it was broadcast straight out of GA. Anything about the SEC is not "common knowledge" I'm sorry to say, and people in the North, Midwest, West could care less about the SEC as you obviously seem to care less about them.

I have been to a couple of those "big games" you mention and NONE of them compare to THE Big Game: Ohio State vs. Michigan at the Big House. None of those "big games" you mentioned seat 120,000 fans. None of them have spawned a whole series of television advertisements on ESPN.

Until you have gone to Ohio State vs. Michigan, at the Big House, you seriously have not lived if you like college football. It is literally an order of magnitude better than those "big games" you mentioned and I gaurantee, from the sound of your post, you will be shocked at how much bigger and more intense it is because you sound like you have a very low expectation of anything outside of the SEC. You owe it to yourself, as a clear fan of college football, to experience it at its best, so I would recommend taking a little road trip this fall.
 
auburn vs. alabama is bigger man...it's literally a civil war..it's awesome!
 
The Schiavo incident is in Florida, which shouldn't even be considered part of the south. I'm an Asian girl with a southern accent who has grown up in southern VA (and moving to FL for residency btw)...I am very open-minded and a lot of people here are. I think it just depends on the individual people you meet.
 
tigress said:
There's no excuse for flying the Confederate flag, but as somebody from SC, I just want to say: in our defense, we DID take it down off of the state capitol. Mississippi still has it as an actual part of their state flag (last I heard)!! Also, in SC it's not really flying in a place where it's supposed to represent the state; it's on a memorial near the capitol. Now you might say that's also unacceptable, but it's better than before. Also, northern SC is very conservative, but significant parts of "the Lowcountry," which includes Charleston and other southern portions of the state, are in fact significantly liberal.

I just get a bit defensive of my home state. 😳

Uhhh...would you mind telling me whats wrong with flying the confederate flag?
 
ctwickman said:
You know I was rooting for you until this post, since I'm from the South, but this post is just damn ignorance pure and simple. I bet you you have never been to a Big 10 game, and that ESPN radio show sounds like it was broadcast straight out of GA. Anything about the SEC is not "common knowledge" I'm sorry to say, and people in the North, Midwest, West could care less about the SEC as you obviously seem to care less about them.

I have been to a couple of those "big games" you mention and NONE of them compare to THE Big Game: Ohio State vs. Michigan at the Big House. None of those "big games" you mentioned seat 120,000 fans. None of them have spawned a whole series of television advertisements on ESPN.

Until you have gone to Ohio State vs. Michigan, at the Big House, you seriously have not lived if you like college football. It is literally an order of magnitude better than those "big games" you mentioned and I gaurantee, from the sound of your post, you will be shocked at how much bigger and more intense it is because you sound like you have a very low expectation of anything outside of the SEC. You owe it to yourself, as a clear fan of college football, to experience it at its best, so I would recommend taking a little road trip this fall.


Been there done it my friend. You might seat 100,000+ but it doesn't sound like it. Our stadiums are louder and the spirit here is much bigger. I'll give you that your rivalry is big but it is the major one up there. We have so many down here and I still think Auburn vs Alabama is a bigger rivalry. I am going to find you an article written by some guys about football down here....

By the way, ESPN has such a northern bias and they still say that football is king down here.
 
yeah i was in jackson this weekend and i saw the state flag with the confederate flag on it as a small patch on the bottom corner...it's more of a symbol of "heritage" supposedly...the alabama flag is a lot more cooler and noncontroversial though...the south is still the best place in the country for black people to live cuz u just cannot live here without accepting them and their influence...the only exception may be in south carolina...that place is just a little different.
 
GO TO AUBURN, BE FOREVER CHANGED

Written by Bud Poliquin, a columnist for the Syracuse Post-Standard newspaper after covering the 2002 Auburn vs. Syracuse football game in Auburn. The article was written for and published in the Post-Standard on October 3, 2002.

BY BUD POLIQUIN
POST-STANDARD COLUMNIST

I have descended into college football's Grand Canyon. I have stood in its Alps. I have gazed at its ocean sunset. I have done all of these things and I've been changed forever.

I knew, of course, that we were different up here. I understood that autumn Saturdays in our burg have never been given over to any kind of serious sporting fervor. I've accepted for a good, long while that a fair amount of our citizens regularly choose to pick apples or seal driveways rather than head to the Carrier Dome to watch the Syracuse University Orangemen at play.

But, Lord have mercy on our college football souls, I've come to realize we're not merely quirky in these parts. And we're not just overly particular. No, having attended a game in Auburn, Ala. - which is like going to Mass in Rome - I'm convinced that, by comparison, we're as dead as the flying wedge.

"Let me tell you something," said Paul Pasqualoni, the SU coach who can recognize bedlam when he is forced to shout above it. "Being in that stadium with all those people - the noise level, the atmosphere - was exciting. It was a lot of fun. To me, it was just spectacular being there."

He was speaking of Jordan-Hare Stadium, where four days earlier his SU club had lost to the Auburn Tigers 37-34 in an environment that was equal parts Woodstock, Mardi Gras, New Year's Eve and Madonna's last wedding. And the Crimson Tide boys, those rascals from the other side of the state, weren't even in town, to say nothing of the Bulldogs, Gators or Razorbacks.

Nah, it was just the Orangemen, a non-league bunch from somewhere up north ... with a losing record yet. But it didn't matter. This, because the cherished Tigers were on the other side, and that was enough for those Alabama locals to respond the way the French did when Patton's army showed up in Paris.

"I missed my wife's birthday so I could cheer on my beloved alma mater against Syracuse," Brent Miller wrote in an e-mail addressed to me following the three-overtime affair. "But you know what? I would have been there if our opponent had been the state of New York's worst high school team."

"Country, God and college football are usually our top three passions," e-mailed another Auburn guy, Steve Fleming. "But not always in that order."

"I grew up in Denver in a family with season tickets to the Broncos games," e-mailed yet another believer, Rick Pavek. "I call Auburn home now and, take my word for this, Broncomania is nothing like Tigermania."

The point is, with the Orangemen returning to the gray Dome that is so often lifeless to play Big East Conference foe Pittsburgh on Saturday, it's clear that somebody's not getting it. Either the Auburn faithful - and people like them in Knoxville and South Bend and Lincoln and Gainesville and Columbus and Austin and elsewhere - are far too crazed or we're way too cool.

Listen, down there in eastern Alabama they pass out full-color, high-gloss, 22-by-17-inch, two-sided, fold-out pamphlets titled, "The 2002 Guide To Game Day At Auburn University." And on Page 2 of each can be found the announcement that nobody is allowed to begin tailgating until 4 p.m.--the day before the game.

"You can't be anything but envious," said Jake Crouthamel, the Syracuse athletic director who was a wide-eyed witness to all of the SU-Auburn doings. "You can't be anything but envious when you have that kind of support. I mean, there were 84,000 people in the seats. And the RVs and house trailers were lined up five miles outside of town. When you talk about the epitome of what the college football experience is all about ... that's it. Auburn is the epitome. You couldn't possibly be unaware of the spectacle, even if you were trying to be unaware."

The orange-clad zealots, who are in their seats fully 30 minutes prior to kickoff, thunder through choreographed cheers. The band, which is saluted upon its arrival by the big house with a standing ovation, blares. The PA system, which continuously blasts the sounds of a growling tiger, pipes in songs by the Dixie Chicks and interviews with the Auburn coaches.

Before the game, there is the great Tiger Walk during which the Auburn players march along Donahue Street through thousands of people, some of whom weep, and into the stadium. After the game, there is the mass papering of famous Toomer's Corner downtown. And between all of that, a golden eagle circles the place before landing on the field to a deafening roar.

And us? Um, let's see. We can't fill 49,000 seats. We debate, ad nauseam, standing-vs.-sitting in the Dome. We give our tickets to takers at the door who had to be schooled in the art of courtliness. We regularly vacate the joint long before the final gun. We allow, in a good-idea-gone-bad, a bunch of vulgar louts planted in a thing called "The O-Zone" to chant expressions you'd never say in front of Mom at the dinner table.

In other words to compare our college football experience to that of Auburn (and a lot of other places) is to compare a skillet of beans to a plate of Chilean sea bass. And while that might sound harsh, it doesn't make the words any less true.

Believe me on this. Please. I have descended into college football's Grand Canyon. I have stood in its Alps. I have gazed at its ocean sunset. I have attended a game at Jordan-Hare Stadium in Auburn, Ala. And I've been changed forever.
 
Scott Van Pelt....


Posted on 11/15 5:01 PM:

Scott Van Pelt had some really nice things to say about Auburn over on The
Maryland board. Enjoy...

Posted by Scott Van Pelt:

A different world - Non Terps & a lengthy rambling mess

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------

Imagine you have been married to the same woman for more than 30 years, you
love her more than anything - nothing could ever change that. You have
shared many of your best memories with her and would never leave her under
any circumstances. Then you spend a day with a woman who in some ways is
more beautiful than your wife...you may never see her again...but you won't
forget her for a while either.

Maryland is my wife...Auburn is " the other woman ".

If you all love college sports - and I assume you do - you really need to
see a game there. I have been lucky to see a lot of places, I have not seen
a lot of places like that. It's an amazing scene in every respect.

Granted, I was there for # 3 vs. # 5...Auburn was 9-0 so it was bound to be
good.

Some highlights:

I arrived at night with the stadium lit up like a Christmas tree. It sits
dead in the middle of campus. A shrine...literally their church - only
services are held on Saturday. Made me say....hmmmm...this is promising.

Gameday scene - tailgating in every available space...and not like some!
field full of RV's - though they had that too. But literally people grilling
and drinking in every available spot for as far as the eye could see. I lost
count of the number of bands and stages and this was at 9 AM.

The Fans - I knew I was in a " red state " from all the Suburbans with W
stickers but the truth of it is, this part of Alabama is an orange state.
Every man woman and child is in the same shade of orange. Not unusual I know
...but THIS was...they are nice, friendly, and polite - to GEORGIA FANS.
Nobody called anyone in Black and Red ****** or *sshole...nobody told them
they sucked.... These people are your friends, you don't know it yet because
you haven't met them
- but when you do - you have met a friend. you want a beer ? some bar- B - Q
? grab some. Let's talk for a while....war eagle...let's have a good game. I
saw this at tailgate after tailgate. Stragglers who wander by are offered
anything that's available - didn't matter what color they were wearing. This
is the oldest rivalry in the South - they call it Brother vs. Brother and
they mean it. Now there are certainly cliche's about down home country
sensibilities - but these folks embodied the best part of the notion of
southern hospitality. Though many did admit it's a tad LESS civil for the
Iron Bowl.

Tiger Walk :

Impossible to describe. Im - possible. A human welcome mat for the team. The
team walks through several blocks to Jordan-Hare through a sea of people. I
asked somebody how many folks were there and was told they could never come
up with an accurate head count but that they were certain it was "well in
excess of 25,000 people." That looked a little light to me...I would have
bought 40 grand. 2 hours before kick the streets in all directions were
completely - and I mean COMPLETELY jammed. It was like a religious
experience. If you can be in the middle of this - and I was lucky enough to
get to walk through it - and not be overwhelmed, you are dead my friend. (I
just went Larry King on your asses - sorry) I was honestly in awe.

Gametime :

The eagle circles as 87,521 people ( less the UGA fans ) cheer
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar EAGLE HEY!!! The eagle pounces on some meat
product and the hair on the back of your neck stands up...then if you are
still unimpressed you get an F-16 flyover and were off and running. Auburn
dominates, the band plays, the fans hoot and holler louder than anywhere I
have ever been (and go Spinal tap and take it to volume 11 when UGa tries to
audible) ... 24 - 6 and it's time for more food and drink...but before
that...

Toomer's corner :

everyone converges on the intersection of college st and whatever the other
road is and they toilet paper every tree in sight. By the time it's over, it
looks like a blizzard has rolled through Alabama. There are no riots, no
police, no cars set on fire. There are families from grandparents to infants
chucking rolls of toilet paper all over the place. Again, i just shake my
head at a loss...and maybe a little jealous.

It's a special place, the best scene I have ever seen for college football.
I have ZERO doubt "our" TEAM could someday be as good. As fans though,
perhaps we should aspire to be as classy as those I was hosted by. The type
of hostile, vile garbage we are subjected to on the road and are certainly
guilty of at home is just embarrassing when you see how they do it
elsewhere. Not preaching here - just some thoughts of one VERY proud
Terrapin after seeing the light Auburn style.

Go Terps - let's get # 5 on Thursday night .
 
Shades McCool said:
Been there done it my friend. You might seat 100,000+ but it doesn't sound like it. Our stadiums are louder and the spirit here is much bigger. I'll give you that your rivalry is big but it is the major one up there. We have so many down here and I still think Auburn vs Alabama is a bigger rivalry. I am going to find you an article written by some guys about football down here....

By the way, ESPN has such a northern bias and they still say that football is king down here.

First of all, it is not "my rivalry." "My rivalry" is Duke vs. UNC because that is where I went to school.

Second, who cares about "spirit" and crap. Some of the worst teams have the most spirit. Doesn't make their football any better. I could go on and on about how "UNC" has "more spirit" during their football games than Florida State, but does that mean that UNC football gamers were "better" than the ones I went to at FSU? Hellllllllll no!

And why do I have a hard time believing that a southern belle from Auburn went to a Michigan vs. Ohio State game at the Big House. Where in this country have you lived? I've lived all over, save for the West coast. Big 10 football is meaner and louder than SEC football. It just is. You can say ESPN has a northern bias all you want, but the fact is an Ohio State/Michigan game on TV will garner literally twice the viewership as an Alabama/Auburn matchup. Most people in this country have never even heard of Auburn, and could not tell you where it even is, sorry to say.
 
I am a dude you ******* (those wre pictures of I am seeing's sorority) and there is no way the Big 11 is louder than the SEC. If you watch the Big 11 on tv, it isn't even loud. It isn’t possible since they don’t even have the same capacity seating-wise as the SEC. We have led in attendance forever.

I went to the “Big House.” It was not as loud as Jordan-Hare because it is a giant bowl. Our stadiums are built to be loud (staight-up) It is certainly not louder than “The Swamp.” You are just lost in the slow, Big 11 propaganda. They can keep playing their games at noon on ESPN while the SEC plays theirs on CBS, ESPN and JP. The SEC makes the money because it has the viewership.
 
😴

Oh I see now whoever is "louder" and has "more spirit" is definetly a better football conference.

First of all, man, I WAS rooting for you until you started talking out of your ass that "everything in the South rules" and you just sounded like an ignoramus who hasn't lived anywhere else.

You're first post was "nothing compares to the SEC" in college football but you forgot about the Big 10, which definetly does, at LEAST, compare. Ohio State vs. Michigan IS the biggest rivalry in college football. It gets the most viewers on TV. This is a fact. Do any poll and ask Americans, not just Southerners, and you'll see that this rivalry wins probably by a 2-to-1 margin versus anything in the SEC. No one cares about Auburn or even knows where it is. If you asked most people what state Auburn is in, they couldn't tell you. And this is coming from a former Southerner my man. Just face the music. This is a big ass country, it's not just the South.

And of course the SEC will have more total attendance, because you have more colleges and more stadiums. The Big 10 has 3 stadiums that hold over 100,000 people. SEC has only one. If you are going to play the coin that "SEC games are louder than Big 10 games," which is just a ridiculous statement to make because who the heck cares "who is louder" or why this would make a better conference, you are going to have to tell me how you liked the games at OSU or Beaver at Penn State when you went to there, because you are claiming such knowledge as to say an entire CONFERENCE of football games is "louder." I gaurantee you've never been to Camp Randall during the halftime Jump-Around then. No wait, you are judging by how loud something "sounds on TV." 🙄

It's like debating what's better for Law, Harvard or Yale. You have to give props where props is due, both are unbelievable. But you are acting like the Big 10 hardly exists. Get out of that southern bubble. And I still don't believe you've ever been to OSU vs. Michigan at the Big House. Some guy from Auburn drove all the way up to Michigan and paid thousands of dollars for a couple of tickets to teams he obviously does not care about? I don't think so.
 
I'm from the south, lived in the Northeast and midwest for a few years. I Loved living in Boston and would like to move to NYC for a year or two if I get a chance - theres just so much to do and its nice to be able to live in a real city where you don't have to drive to get somewhere. Plus its hard to beat the big NE cities if you want a variety of good food and want to be around tons of fascinating young people. Also its nice to be near the mountains and lakes up north - beautiful country all and all. I lived in St. Louis for a few years and it was pretty blah - just a big dull city with crappy weather, an uninspiring landscape, and boring people - no question that aside from neato places like chicago, ann arbor, and madison, the midwest pretty much stinks. I do love the south the most - The south has great weather, friendly people, new infrastructure, and a pretty progressive attitude aside from the religious stuff. I would agree that asian minorities tend to stick out here - most of the asians I know who really love the south are the ones who were born here. If you're single, you'll want to move to a big city like Atlanta, Houston, New Orleans, Memphis - I hear a lot of complaints from southerners and non-southerners who are single and live in smaller southern cities. As far as political stuff - don't worry too much about it unless you're moving to a small town. People here generally try to avoid offense anyhow - you won't be condemned for your political beliefs unless you're an outspoken nut!
 
shaggybill said:
Uhhh...would you mind telling me whats wrong with flying the confederate flag?

Well at first I wasn't going to even respond to this, because I don't really want to start another political argument, but I decided to respond anyway. Obviously the problem with flying the Confederate flag on a government building is that it offends people. In spite of what anybody may argue, a main reason for the Civil War was slavery, and in the South people generally fly the Confederate flag in support of racist ideals. That's why if you stick around long enough you'll see bumper stickers with the flag that say things like "the South was right." For all of the people who claim "heritage, not hate," the vast majority of people I encountered growing up in the South who display images of the Confederate flag have done so for racist reasons. It is obviously wrong for a government to promote racist ideals. The emotional effect the flag has on black people is (I assume, not being black) akin to what a Jew might feel if his state flew a flag with a swastika. Sure, you can say that the swastika has ancient roots and a long cultural tradition, and that's true, but as a symbol is has come to represent hatred.

As a side note, while I personally was taught about the Civil War in school, I grew up in Charleston, which tends to be more liberal. People I knew who grew up in small towns in SC were, in fact, taught about "The War of Northern Aggression." Of course texts called it the Civil War, but teachers tend to call it the latter.
 
monstermatch said:
The south has great weather, friendly people, new infrastructure...

The infrastructure in the South may be "newer," but it is certainly less advanced and developed than in the North/Midwest. Most cities in the South do not even have street lights on the highways or major thoroughfares, all the power lines are all above ground on wooden poles, and there is very little traffic management system, just a bunch of traffic lights that are hanging on power lines like it's 1950. Southern cities are also not on a grid system like everywhere else in America, so traffic is much worse per capita. All in all, Southern cities are an urban planner's nightmare, and this of all things is the worst thing about the South that I can think of, which says a lot of positive things about the people there because the people are fantastic. Everything else is great, but the cities just seriously blow and are very undeveloped with a long way to go with infrastructure. Drive in one of the South's biggest cities/metro, Atlanta, for instance, versus something even like Milwaukee's metro, and it is shocking how much darker and undeveloped Atlanta's feels. You have to drive a good 20 miles to find roads without lights on them in Milwaukee, for example, while in Atlanta just head a couple miles on GA 400.
 
ctwickman said:
The infrastructure in the South may be "newer," but it is certainly less advanced and developed than in the North/Midwest. Most cities in the South do not even have street lights on the highways or major thoroughfares, all the power lines are all above ground on wooden poles, and there is very little traffic management system, just a bunch of traffic lights that are hanging on power lines like it's 1950. Drive the one of the South's biggest cities, Atlanta, versus something even like Milwaukee, and it is shocking how much darker and undeveloped Atlanta feels. It's literally like driving around in the dark woods.

I can't speak for "most" of the South, but I can tell you that this isn't true in Charleston, SC, or the surrounding areas. What IS lacking is a system of public transportation, but the infrastructure is quite good. In the actual city (peninsula) of Charleston power lines are above ground for two reasons: 1) the city is very old, obviously, and 2) you can't dig down because most of the city is at or below sea level, meaning dig into the ground and you get water (this is why all buildings are built on heavy pilings). Outside the peninsula of Charleston, however, most of the power lines are buried. Traffic management is just as advanced as anywhere. As far as not having streetlights, that just isn't true. Even the small town my grandfather grew up in (which is dwindling in size, and is now tiny) has street lights in all appropriate places.

Go to rural areas anywhere in the country and they will probably be fairly similar. There is somewhat of a "quaint" feeling to parts of the South, but I rather like that.
 
^

I am not arguing with you so don't take this the wrong way, but the older the city is, the more likely the power lines are to be buried, because the city is further along in its development. Chicago is in a swamp, for instance, you hit water just a few feet below ground. But all the power lines are buried--the power grid is underground, not above ground. This is not due to winter, either, because there are no trees in the city to affect this. But even in the city of Atlanta, right DOWNTOWN, there are big power lines on wooden poles. Very unsightly and undeveloped.

As for traffic management, let's take Atlanta. Atlanta does not have traffic lights on the onramps linked to sensors for traffic management yet. Even a smaller metros in the north have that. And of course we need not get started on mass transit, of which the South is sorely lacking and probably will be for a long time because outside of a few gems like New Orleans and Charleston, there is just no density in the South. It has all developed around the automobile and no one walks anywhere.

And as for street lights, Southern cities are just plain and simply DARK compared to Northern ones. You can be 10 miles outside of Atlanta and find a road or highway without street lights on them, or even sidewalks for that matter. Smaller metros are even worse. That would never happen in even the smaller Midwestern/Northeastern cities. This is not to knock the South at all, so don't get too defensive or take this the wrong way. I am from the South and love most things about it, but the cities are just plain and simply, relatively undeveloped and the infrastructure is not nearly as advanced. Which is OK because the taxes are lower. 😀
 
Yes, public transportation is one of the biggest problems in the South. I had never been on a public bus until I was about 12 and I visited the Northeast. In the South everybody drives, which makes living difficult for lower-income families who can't afford a car. The bus system that does exist in Charleston is used almost exclusively by people who can't afford cars, and is sort of seen as not classy or respectable for middle- or upper-class people. That's a shame.

I suppose for people considering moving to the South for med school this would be something to consider. In some cities you may find some public transportation (like perhaps Atlanta), but mostly not. So if the school isn't within walking distance of places to live and things to do, you'll probably want to have a car.
 
tigress said:
Well at first I wasn't going to even respond to this, because I don't really want to start another political argument, but I decided to respond anyway. Obviously the problem with flying the Confederate flag on a government building is that it offends people. In spite of what anybody may argue, a main reason for the Civil War was slavery, and in the South people generally fly the Confederate flag in support of racist ideals. That's why if you stick around long enough you'll see bumper stickers with the flag that say things like "the South was right." For all of the people who claim "heritage, not hate," the vast majority of people I encountered growing up in the South who display images of the Confederate flag have done so for racist reasons. It is obviously wrong for a government to promote racist ideals. The emotional effect the flag has on black people is (I assume, not being black) akin to what a Jew might feel if his state flew a flag with a swastika. Sure, you can say that the swastika has ancient roots and a long cultural tradition, and that's true, but as a symbol is has come to represent hatred.

As a side note, while I personally was taught about the Civil War in school, I grew up in Charleston, which tends to be more liberal. People I knew who grew up in small towns in SC were, in fact, taught about "The War of Northern Aggression." Of course texts called it the Civil War, but teachers tend to call it the latter.

Fair enough, although I happen to disagree. The Civil War had little to do with slavery, as many scholars will have to admit. Also, I dont think of the Confederate flag having as much to do with racist ideas as much as the Souths constitutional right to withdraw from the Union at any time, for any reason, as was the agreement when they joined. If people knew their history a little better, they wouldnt have to get offended over something so trivial.

I also believe The Civil War is an incorrect label, as the war was fought between two separate nations. 🙂
 
I've had both positive and negative experiences in the south. For the most part, I really enjoyed my time down there when I was touring around and doing interviews. I'm from the northwest, and while people here are polite and well meaning, they won't extend themselves to help you out. For example, when I even looked lost while I was there, a complete stranger would ask me what I'm looking for, or what's up. That's really unusual for anyone to do that where I'm from, but I really enjoyed it. There's plenty more that goes along with that - for example I've been invited to dinner by complete strangers. Its good stuff, and I wish I could live in a place like that.

But I've also seen an ugly side to it as well. I'm half asian, and half white, but people generally don't know that I am either. In one of my interviews, the interviewer asked about my ethnicity, and then proceeded to call me a "goddamn chinaman", which I of course did not like at all. And this guy wasn't just a random interviewer either, he's been representing the school for 30 some odd years according to him. Although I otherwise enjoyed the school, that made a big impact in my decision to not consider going there.

So that has been my experience, both positive and negative.
 
Southeast Texas is definitely the south! Yes texas is its own beast (unfortunately I have had to drive from Houston to Los Angeles, and it takes longer to drive from Houston to El Paso than to drive from El Paso to Los Angeles.) but that part is definitely the south. Anywhere where Blue Bell Ice Cream is sold is the south (well except for west texas). You can even buy boudan in Houston and in many texas cities east of there.

Shades McCool said:
I don't care what others think of the South. This is my home and it is a wonderful place.

I can wear shorts 8 months out of the year.

I love a warm spring or hot summer day where I walk around outside barefoot with the grass between my toes.

I love walking down the street and everyone speaking to me.

I love SEC football (if you are a real college football fan you have to go to a big SEC game).

I love the Gulf beaches (especially Destin...my second home).

I love Southern Belles...the prettiest girls in the country.

I love my sweet tea, grits, roe, ect...

I love the respect people have for our elders...

I love the fact that we center our lives around church...

I could go one forever but I don't have to. I am not trying to convince anyone to move down here. I am trying to say that the South is special to me for so many reasons and that is why I will never leave.

Also I don't consider Texas as a true southern state. That thing is its own beast. It seems like the Midwest, Southwest and Mexico all mixed into one.

The South:
Alabama
Mississippi
Georgia
South Carolina
Parts of Florida
Virginia
Tennessee
Parts of Louisiana
Kentucky
Parts of Arkansas
Maybe a little of NC but that is really pushing it.
 
ctwickman said:
The infrastructure in the South may be "newer," but it is certainly less advanced and developed than in the North/Midwest. Most cities in the South do not even have street lights on the highways or major thoroughfares, all the power lines are all above ground on wooden poles, and there is very little traffic management system, just a bunch of traffic lights that are hanging on power lines like it's 1950. Southern cities are also not on a grid system like everywhere else in America, so traffic is much worse per capita. All in all, Southern cities are an urban planner's nightmare, and this of all things is the worst thing about the South that I can think of, which says a lot of positive things about the people there because the people are fantastic. Everything else is great, but the cities just seriously blow and are very undeveloped with a long way to go with infrastructure. Drive in one of the South's biggest cities/metro, Atlanta, for instance, versus something even like Milwaukee's metro, and it is shocking how much darker and undeveloped Atlanta's feels. You have to drive a good 20 miles to find roads without lights on them in Milwaukee, for example, while in Atlanta just head a couple miles on GA 400.

I had to laugh when you compared Milwaukee to Atlanta. Thats just weak - who in their right mind would move to a dump like Milwaukee? Maybe if you're coming from Sheboygan then Milwaukee is a big deal. Atlanta, on the other hand, is a terrific city thats expanding hand over fist because its a great place to live - people are moving there from all over the world.

And please, Cincinnati has some sort of grid but whoever designed their highways was a madman who should be summerily drawn and quartered. That place is such a hideous wasteland and the grid doesn't make it any better. Same goes for Buffalo and Erie. And don't even get me started on the whole state or Pa.

And you can keep keep your excessive lighting up in the frozen north - I prefer less light pollution myself.
 
monstermatch said:
Atlanta, on the other hand, is a terrific city thats expanding hand over fist because its a great place to live - people are moving there from all over the world.

And please, Cincinnati has some sort of grid but whoever designed their highways was a madman who should be summerily drawn and quartered. That place is such a hideous wasteland and the grid doesn't make it any better.

I share the same sentiments (originally from Cincinnati, now in Atlanta). Except for the awful public transportation, Atlanta is a tremendous city. I would never even consider a move back to Cincinnati.
 
Originally Posted by Shades McCool

Also I don't consider Texas as a true southern state. That thing is its own beast. It seems like the Midwest, Southwest and Mexico all mixed into one.

The South:
Alabama
Mississippi
Georgia
South Carolina
Parts of Florida
Virginia
Tennessee
Parts of Louisiana
Kentucky
Parts of Arkansas
Maybe a little of NC but that is really pushing it.

How could you consider Kentucky to be South, but not North Carolina or "parts of Louisiana?" North Carolina is more Southern than any part of Florida or Kentucky, hands down. And Texas is Southern too.

In a nutshell, any state that was part of the Confederacy is Southern.

The South:
Virginia
North Carolina (second best)
South Carolina
Georgia
Florida
Alabama (the best)
Mississippi
Loiusiana
Texas
Arkansas
Tennessee
 
ctwickman said:
You can be 10 miles outside of Atlanta and find a road or highway without street lights on them, or even sidewalks for that matter.
What's wrong with a lack of streetlights in the country? Night-time is _supposed_ to be dark. Getting away from streetlights is one of the main reasons I leave the city...
 
monstermatch said:
I had to laugh when you compared Milwaukee to Atlanta. Thats just weak - who in their right mind would move to a dump like Milwaukee? Maybe if you're coming from Sheboygan then Milwaukee is a big deal. Atlanta, on the other hand, is a terrific city thats expanding hand over fist because its a great place to live - people are moving there from all over the world.

And you can keep keep your excessive lighting up in the frozen north - I prefer less light pollution myself.

WTF? Milwaukee is a much larger city than Atlanta man (and it is larger over LESS area!). Did you realize this before talking crap? That would make Atlanta a "weaker city" by your own words.

Atlanta population 423,019 over 132 sq. miles
Milwaukee population 586,941 over 96 sq. miles

Milwaukee has over 150,000 more people than Atlanta and in less space! Metro population numbers are obviously very different, because everyone who claims to be from Atlanta actually lives in the woods 30 miles north of the city, but this discussion is about CITIES not suburban sprawl, and Milwaukee is WAY WAY more developed than Atlanta. BTW I have lived near Atlanta and I now live near Milwaukee. You can drive 10 miles outside of Atlanta and be in a dark forrest with no infrastructure or street lights and no freaking sidewalks. And you wonder why Atlanta's metro is growing so fast? It's easy to grow fast when there is almost nothing but suburban sprawl.

As far as lighting on the freeways, don't worry, because the southern cities are getting them. So if you prefer less light pollution, move to Montana. Charlotte just put lights on the freeways. It's just a matter of time before other cities in the South catch up to the infrastructure and development in the North. You think adding people is not going to bring about more infrastructure, like street lighting and sidewalks? It is just a matter of time before Atlanta begins to look more like Milwaukee, than the other way around. You think as time passes Milwaukee will uncover their electrical grid and put them on wooden poles, take the street lights down from the freeways, bulldoze the sidewalks, and rearrange the arterial grid to a road system that resembles a map of Atlanta (i.e., spaghetti)?

As far as people moving to Atlanta, guess where they are moving to? It ain't the city, I can tell you that much. Atlanta isn't "expanding hand over fist," it's suburbs are. There is a huge difference! The only counties with double digit growth in Atlanta now are Henry and Forsyth! That's not even the suburbs, that's past it in the exurbs!!
 
ctwickman said:
WTF? Milwaukee is a much larger city than Atlanta man (and it is larger over LESS area!). Did you realize this before talking crap? That would make Atlanta a "weaker city" by your own words.

Atlanta population 423,019 over 132 sq. miles
Milwaukee population 586,941 over 96 sq. miles

Milwaukee has over 150,000 more people than Atlanta and in less space! Metro population numbers are obviously very different, because everyone who claims to be from Atlanta actually lives in the woods 30 miles north of the city, but this discussion is about CITIES not suburban sprawl, and Milwaukee is WAY WAY more developed than Atlanta. BTW I have lived near Atlanta and I now live near Milwaukee. You can drive 10 miles outside of Atlanta and be in a dark forrest with no infrastructure or street lights and no freaking sidewalks--and you wonder why Atlanta's metro is growing so fast?

As far as lighting on the freeways, don't worry, because the southern cities are getting them. So if you prefer less light pollution, move to Montana. Charlotte just put lights on the freeways. It's just a matter of time before other cities in the South catch up to the infrastructure and development in the North. You think adding people is not going to bring about more infrastructure, like street lighting and sidewalks? It is just a matter of time before Atlanta begins to look more like Milwaukee, than the other way around. You think as time passes Milwaukee will uncover their electrical grid and put them on wooden poles, take the street lights down from the freeways, bulldoze the sidewalks, and rearrange the arterial grid to a road system that resembles a map of Atlanta (i.e., spaghetti)?

As far as people moving to Atlanta, guess where they are moving to? It ain't the city, I can tell you that much. Atlanta isn't "expanding hand over fist," it's suburbs are. There is a huge difference! The only counties with double digit growth in Atlanta now are Henry and Forsyth! That's not even the suburbs, that's past it in the exurbs!!

Wow, you must really be pretty addled from staying indoors all winter. You can have Milwaukee in all its dingy, frozen, well-lit glory. I'll take any southern city any day. Even dirty ol Memphis.
 
Code Brown said:
I thought I might cause this type of response. I have family in TX and OK, so I know what it's like as I have seen this backward mentality first hand. The technology is there, and I have never disputed this (this is in response to jetproppilot), but socially, there are a lot of people who have a long way to go. Just have a look at the Schiavo incident or the recent attempt to fine people for showing a piece of underwear in public (Virginia). This isn't the 18th century anymore. Yes, California still has many social problems but it has progressed farther than the south. "Progressive" to me means moving toward a rational society. I'm worried about having to deal with dip**** protestors outside Michael Moore movies and *****s who actually buy what Jerry Falwell spews out of his big propaganda machine. Believe me, fiscally, I think W. is doing a fine job, but socially, he does have his head up his arse.


Well if that's how you feel then I suggest you stay clear of the south; you will probably be miserable during your entire stay. Has the word "rational" been redefined?
 
monstermatch said:
Wow, you must really be pretty addled from staying indoors all winter. You can have Milwaukee in all its dingy, frozen, well-lit glory. I'll take any southern city any day. Even dirty ol Memphis.

I just found it funny that someone from a significantly smaller city, called a significantly larger city "weak." It's like me ripping on New York. Yeah it's dirtier and meaner than Chicago--but it's New Frickin' York and I have no right to ever call it "weak."

I am definetly willing to bet I've spent more time outdoors this winter than you have BTW. I don't own a car and walk everywhere.
 
ctwickman said:
I just found it funny that someone from a significantly smaller city, called a significantly larger city "weak." It's like me ripping on New York. Yeah it's dirtier and meaner than Chicago--but it's New Frickin' York and I have no right to ever call it "weak.".

I'm not from Atlanta, i just like the place, and I already said I love New York and I think chicago is neato - not sure what that has to do with this. But Milwaukee still sucks. Sucks ass. MCW is a good school tho - Ok, thats a plus.
 
elicash said:
A poster earlier made the good point that if you're white or black, you're good to go-- but not if you're asian, south asian, middle eastern, etc.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of truth to this. The south is not the best place for Asians to find a mate. From my observations Indians/Pakstanis probably have the toughest job finding someone suitable. Houston is probably an exception, and maybe New Orleans and Atlanta. Its not impossible by any means, but its not easy - even in mid size towns like Birmingham & Nashville. (whiteman here) Then again, even under the best of circumstances its hard for most people to meet someone when they're busy studying at the library all day.
 
elicash said:
there are two major draws to duke - 1. curriculum; 2. beautiful women.

There are a lot of draws to Duke, but beautiful women is certainly not one of them! That's seriously a new one that I've never heard. Even all of us that went to undergrad around there new that Duke was severely lacking in the women department, especially compared to Chapel Hill.
 
shaggybill said:
Fair enough, although I happen to disagree. The Civil War had little to do with slavery, as many scholars will have to admit. Also, I dont think of the Confederate flag having as much to do with racist ideas as much as the Souths constitutional right to withdraw from the Union at any time, for any reason, as was the agreement when they joined. If people knew their history a little better, they wouldnt have to get offended over something so trivial.

I also believe The Civil War is an incorrect label, as the war was fought between two separate nations. 🙂

Boy this baloney just sickens me - its really about the only thing that makes me ashamed for the south - all those weirdos who insist that slavery was some minor issue when it comes to the civil war. It was the defining issue of the day and men fought and died on both sides of that conflict. Sure there was more at stake than just slavery, but the core conflict was about the question of slavery in a free society. And all this business about the confederate flag in today's society - its just a dumb way for racist southerners to smugly crow about the good ol days of white rule. That is the "heritage" that the confederate flag represents.
 
Code Brown said:
I have a quick question that I hope someone would be able to shed some light on. While I do like Wake as a medical school, I do have some concern about living in the south from a lifestyle standpoint. Can anyone who has moved to the south (NC, TN, SC, KY, VA, etc.) from a fairly progressive state let me know how you like it there? Feel free to PM me. By progressive, I mean someplace like CA, OR, WA, or even Canada. There is just something about supporting Bush on social policy that I just don't understand.

I'm living in SoCal right now.

I'm moved to the south (AR) about a year ago (AR) from the bay area, CA. Its been way more of an adjustment than I'd imagined (and I've been all over the country and have live in other countries, so its not that I'm sheltered). Most people are conservative - even those who claim to be liberal, are conservative by CA standards. There also is a lot of "southern pride" which sometimes translates into fear of outsiders (I finally figured out why people were so unfriendly to me at the health dept....one woman admitted that she thought I was a yankee...and she wasn't joking). For me, the southern hospitality exists when you fit in, look, talk and act like everyone else.
So, anyway, I'm not trying to offend anyone, just talking about my experience...not a lot of positives, yet, but I'm hopeful 😉 PM me if you have more questions...
 
KatieJune said:
(I finally figured out why people were so unfriendly to me at the health dept....one woman admitted that she thought I was a yankee...and she wasn't joking).

LOL. That's true, a lot of people in the South still refer to those from the North as "yankees." It's hilarious. I bet you never heard that word used in California outside of the World Series on Fox. 😀
 
monstermatch said:
Boy this baloney just sickens me - its really about the only thing that makes me ashamed for the south - all those weirdos who insist that slavery was some minor issue when it comes to the civil war. It was the defining issue of the day and men fought and died on both sides of that conflict. Sure there was more at stake than just slavery, but the core conflict was about the question of slavery in a free society. And all this business about the confederate flag in today's society - its just a dumb way for racist southerners to smugly crow about the good ol days of white rule. That is the "heritage" that the confederate flag represents.

Actually, the fact is that only 10% of the north were abolishionists. And most Southerners who fought in the War didnt even own slaves. Alot of them were men that came down from the mountains because they saw that the north was attempting to crush their inalienable right to seccede . The war was fought because Southerners were tired of an imperialistic north trying to impose their will upon an agrarian South, and the South didnt like it much.

You, like most people, learned your history from liberal teachers who taught from liberal books written by liberal authors. The facts speak for themselves, and most Civil War buffs would agree with what I'm saying.
 
shaggybill said:
Actually, the fact is that only 10% of the north were abolishionists. And most Southerners who fought in the War didnt even own slaves. Alot of them were men that came down from the mountains because they saw that the north was attempting to crush their inalienable right to seccede . The war was fought because Southerners were tired of an imperialistic north trying to impose their will upon an agrarian South, and the South didnt like it much.

You, like most people, learned your history from liberal teachers who taught from liberal books written by liberal authors. The facts speak for themselves, and most Civil War buffs would agree with what I'm saying.

Well, unfortunately the KKK is alive and well here in AR....there is some major current legislation in the state that was started by one of the top white supremacists in the country....

I was told by someone when I first arrived here that if my husband and I walked into her church, no one would speak to us solely because my husband isn't white...nice eh?

Not to say there isn't racism on the west coast, but it seems to be much more of an accepted attitude here...does that not date back to the civil war?
 
shaggybill said:
Actually, the fact is that only 10% of the north were abolishionists. And most Southerners who fought in the War didnt even own slaves. Alot of them were men that came down from the mountains because they saw that the north was attempting to crush their inalienable right to seccede . The war was fought because Southerners were tired of an imperialistic north trying to impose their will upon an agrarian South, and the South didnt like it much.

You, like most people, learned your history from liberal teachers who taught from liberal books written by liberal authors. The facts speak for themselves, and most Civil War buffs would agree with what I'm saying.

Slavery was the basis of the southern economy. Slavery was the issue that divided the north and south at the continental congress. Slavery was the issue that the south fretted over during the westward expasion. When the south was faced with the prospect of abolition with Pres Lincoln's election they seceded. Why? To keep their slaves. The whole country was agrarian back then and the "northern industrialists" were right to oppose slavery because it was MORALLY REPUGNANT and INDEFENSIBLE. You don't have to be a bleeding heart liberal to know that. Go bury your confederate flag.
 
Hmmm... I don't know about all this slavery and football stuff, but with regards to the OPs question:
I'm from Seattle, and am starting my 4th year at Wake now. The school is great, and the faculty and students are awesome. You won't be disappointed wiht those aspects.
In terms of Winston-Salem, I hear people say all the time that it's a conservative town, and I guess that might be true. I can't think of any situations, however, after 3 years here, where it has been an issue. The only noticeable difference is with patients or patient's families who might discuss religion more than they would elsewhere, even though God generally does come up often enough when people are sick in ANY hospital. Also, if you like talk radio, it's all God talk on Sundays, so forget that. Otherwise, don't give it a thought.
The only "drawback" is the relative quiet here. It's not a party town, that's for sure. But with the friends you make in school, you will always have options for things to do if you're into sports or travelling around or something.
To sum things up, it's about school, not about conservatism or liberalism or whatever. I like it here, but I will return to Seattle for residency and life. I enjoy going home for vacation, and I enjoy coming back to my second home here. I was always worried that I would be depressed returning here from vacations, but in fact I always look forward to getting back and hanging out with my classmates again and getting back to the hospital.
 
I grew up in Houston, went to college in Dallas, and now live in Austin. I've seen my share of the southern stereotype. But I've also seen my share of Dallas pricks. Frankly, its the latter I can't stand and I don't think there is anything uniquely "southern" about them. They're just overbearing, harley riding, striped shirt wearing, dinguses. Those people are everywhere.

One of the most uptight, judgemental, intolerable people I've ever met was a grad student from Washington state. She tsk-tsked everyone around her that wasn't as perfect and churchy as she. Point is, there are jerks everywhere.
 
I grew up in the central valley of california, probably the most conservative area of cali. we had our fair share of hicks and idiots in my town. When i moved to Texas after highschool, I found that the imagine of Texas full of all hicks was not so true. I was very conservative in cali but I am considered liberal by a good number of texans except those in Austin. The only thing I can't get used to is the sheer number of churches and how much more religious things are here. Oh and the weather here is not that great either. At least I have met some extremely nice people.
 
relema said:
I grew up in the central valley of california, probably the most conservative area of cali.
Central valley ain't got nothing on Orange County, if you're republican hunting. Trust me <sigh>...
 
monstermatch said:
Slavery was the basis of the southern economy. Slavery was the issue that divided the north and south at the continental congress. Slavery was the issue that the south fretted over during the westward expasion. When the south was faced with the prospect of abolition with Pres Lincoln's election they seceded. Why? To keep their slaves. The whole country was agrarian back then and the "northern industrialists" were right to oppose slavery because it was MORALLY REPUGNANT and INDEFENSIBLE. You don't have to be a bleeding heart liberal to know that. Go bury your confederate flag.

While slavery was a cause for division within congress, northerners were, for the most part NOT opposed to slavery. They didn't care because they viewed black people as sub-human in the very same way that southerners did. The plain fact is that northerners just didn't care about slavery. The root cause of the civil war was the industrialization in the north versus the agrarian economy in the south. Is slavery repugnant and indefensible? Of course. That concept has nothing to do with liberal/conservative mentality. However, the civil war was an economic war, certainly not fought over slavery.

But hey, I'm just a "dumb hick from the boondocks who isn't intellectual enough to comprehend the brilliance that is the liberal mentality." -RL
 
RaaMD said:
Everyone in the pictures are white or black. How is that a little bit of everything.

even funnier, just about everyone was white except the football players.
 
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