MPH to Physician Assistant easier route?

[vpm007]

I am a senior in college. I was a business major up until junior year. I hated my internships, there was no passion or fulfillment. I realized, I had a passion for healthcare and added public health to my business degree. I did another internship for a public health organization and another one for a internal medicine practice, and I realized that I wanted to go down the clinical path.

I am currently speaking with many PA school admission directors. One told me that it is extremely difficult to get into their program with anything under a 3.5. However, I had a bad last semester (death in the family) and I lost focus. My cumulative GPA dropped from a 3.45 to a 3.22. At this point, I don't think I am a competitive applicant. I will be shadowing a PCP and assisting in triaging patients starting next month. I should have 1000 hours completed by the end of the year. My story is also very compelling, it shows that I am not in it for the money or the prestige, but because I am passionate about the field. However, my GPA is what is giving me anxiety.

My ultimate goal is to have the degrees MPH/ PA-C. I have a couple choices:

1. Get my MPH first, then apply to PA school. Would my graduate school GPA compensate for my low undergrad GPA?

2. I do not have many prereqs for PA school. I still need to take the majority of my prereqs. I will do this at a community college rather than my school because it is cheaper. Although, my undergrad GPA is from a different institution, would these prereqs count towards my GPA? Let's say I have 3.5-3.7 from my prereqs will that compensate for my low undergrad GPA?

Also in terms of managing my time effectively

1. Should I get my MPH before applying to PA school?

2. Should I take my prereqs first then apply to an MPH program and when I am finished with my MPH apply to PA school?

3. Or should I take my prereqs, apply to PA school and when I am finished get my MPH?


I just need help on which path is more feasible and utilizes my times the most effectively. My big thing is, I don't want to sit around and do nothing for an extended period of time.

Sorry for the typos! Typing on my phone. Thanks in advance!

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[Boatswain2PA]

I think any graduate level work would help with admissions. And YES, the admissions process looks at your cumulative total GPA (all schools, undergrad and grad), along with your cumulative science GPA.

My suggestion - get your prereq's knocked out first. Get straight A's in your prereq's. This will raise your GPA, and you can start applying for PA schools.

Then apply to PA programs and MPH programs concurrently. If you don't get into PA program, then in your MPH program take as many courses that actually involve medicine/science as you can rather than the administrative stuff.

If you do this you will be able to re-apply to PA programs every year while you're working on your MPH. The MPH classes will help raise your GPA (if you get A's), while looking good on your applications. If you get into a PA program before your MPH is complete, then just take a sabbatical from your MPH program, and then re-join it part time when you are a PA.

My MPH is effectively useless (ie: nobody cares that I have a MPH...I certainly don't!) unless I have to add all the stupid letters after my title (and I never do that). However, in my MPH I took classes like "Medical Care Concepts and Analysis", "Emergency Management Health and Medical Issues", "Health Disaster Management", "Mass Casualty Incident Management", "Quarantine", "Epidemiology", and "Public Health"...and I feel these classes made much of PA school easier for me. I certainly knew more about epidemiology than the professor teaching it.

Also, a better discussion board for PAs is http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Or....better yet....if you are young, try for medical school.

 

[vpm007]

I think any graduate level work would help with admissions. And YES, the admissions process looks at your cumulative total GPA (all schools, undergrad and grad), along with your cumulative science GPA.

My suggestion - get your prereq's knocked out first. Get straight A's in your prereq's. This will raise your GPA, and you can start applying for PA schools.

Then apply to PA programs and MPH programs concurrently. If you don't get into PA program, then in your MPH program take as many courses that actually involve medicine/science as you can rather than the administrative stuff.

If you do this you will be able to re-apply to PA programs every year while you're working on your MPH. The MPH classes will help raise your GPA (if you get A's), while looking good on your applications. If you get into a PA program before your MPH is complete, then just take a sabbatical from your MPH program, and then re-join it part time when you are a PA.

My MPH is effectively useless (ie: nobody cares that I have a MPH...I certainly don't!) unless I have to add all the stupid letters after my title (and I never do that). However, in my MPH I took classes like "Medical Care Concepts and Analysis", "Emergency Management Health and Medical Issues", "Health Disaster Management", "Mass Casualty Incident Management", "Quarantine", "Epidemiology", and "Public Health"...and I feel these classes made much of PA school easier for me. I certainly knew more about epidemiology than the professor teaching it.

Also, a better discussion board for PAs is http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/

Nope, not that young, I'm 23. My hope is to have a career established by the time I am 30-32. Did you really think your MPH was useless, what was your concentration? I was thinking Epidemiology or BioStat

 

[deleted432032]

23 is still a baby in this game, don't kid yourself here. Most applicants to medical school are around 23 to 28 hears old, with a mean of 25 for most.

PA schools are also going to want to see prior healthcare experience with Direct Patient Contact. I do not think anyone can get around this. The point of the PA program is for those with previous healthcare experience to expand on their knowledge to serve at a high capacity. PA programs are not designed for someone that has no experience in healthcare, the training is not designed to teach from scratch like medical and nursing schools are.

 

[deleted6669]

Grad school gpa boost would help. there are also dual PA/MPH programs like at George Washington, etc.

 

[IAhawkeye]

Yup, I was gonna say that there are pa programs that offer dual degree of MPH+PA

 

[pamac]

The PA field was originally designed for folks with previous healthcare experience, but now you won't have a hard time finding schools that don't care, and will settle for humanitarian volunteer work, or simply shadowing and good grades. But that generally means they want really good grades. The nearest PA program to me doesn't care at all about HCE, and is all about grades and volunteer work. They churn out lots of PAs every year that are youngsters just out of undergrad. They may have 4 or 5 students with what would be described as great HCE, and about that many with entry level hce like CNA or EMT B. If you had hce, you would be fine with the gpa that you currently have, but since yours is slightly low, it would be harder. I agree with the "work on the the MPH and apply once you have prereqs advice." I think you'll do fine, just do well on any MPH classes you take, and do excellent on your prereqs. Each. PA program is different, and can have widely different profiles of what kind of applicant they are looking for. Unfortunately for many new applicants, there aren't a lot of programs looking for great intentioned applicants with untapped potential, mediocre GPA, and low HCE requirements. I think you are actually fairly close to where you need to be where you could do well. You aren't dug into a hole with gpa, and have a decent plan.

 

[princekc]

I think any graduate level work would help with admissions. And YES, the admissions process looks at your cumulative total GPA (all schools, undergrad and grad), along with your cumulative science GPA.

My suggestion - get your prereq's knocked out first. Get straight A's in your prereq's. This will raise your GPA, and you can start applying for PA schools.

Then apply to PA programs and MPH programs concurrently. If you don't get into PA program, then in your MPH program take as many courses that actually involve medicine/science as you can rather than the administrative stuff.

If you do this you will be able to re-apply to PA programs every year while you're working on your MPH. The MPH classes will help raise your GPA (if you get A's), while looking good on your applications. If you get into a PA program before your MPH is complete, then just take a sabbatical from your MPH program, and then re-join it part time when you are a PA.

My MPH is effectively useless (ie: nobody cares that I have a MPH...I certainly don't!) unless I have to add all the stupid letters after my title (and I never do that). However, in my MPH I took classes like "Medical Care Concepts and Analysis", "Emergency Management Health and Medical Issues", "Health Disaster Management", "Mass Casualty Incident Management", "Quarantine", "Epidemiology", and "Public Health"...and I feel these classes made much of PA school easier for me. I certainly knew more about epidemiology than the professor teaching it.

Also, a better discussion board for PAs is http://www.physicianassistantforum.com/

Well said. I agreed!

 

[princekc]

PA schools are also going to want to see prior healthcare experience with Direct Patient Contact. I do not think anyone can get around this. The point of the PA program is for those with previous healthcare experience to expand on their knowledge to serve at a high capacity. PA programs are not designed for someone that has no experience in healthcare, the training is not designed to teach from scratch like medical and nursing schools are.

Not so anymore. It use to. HCE via volunteer OK at most institution.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Nope, not that young, I'm 23. My hope is to have a career established by the time I am 30-32. Did you really think your MPH was useless, what was your concentration? I was thinking Epidemiology or BioStat

Yeah, pretty much useless. It's on my CV, and anytime a nursing-doctor demands that I call her "Doctor" I tell her that I will as soon as she starts calling me "Master Master" since I have two masters degrees....otherwise it's pretty much useless. Might be worth something if I ever want to go into administrative work, but I doubt it.

Focus was on disaster management.

If you're 23, then your goal should be MEDICAL SCHOOL. I know, you feel like you are just sooooooo old, but you're not. Get your pre-req's done for med school and apply to med school, PA school, and MPH programs all at the same time. If accepted, go to them in that order (med school > PA school > MPH program).

 

[hughesn2]

You have a few obstacles in front of you to get into med school since you didn't start taking any science courses until your final 3 semesters in college. You can apply to an MPH program with just about any degree, but PA schools have some of the most pre-reqs among any graduate program in the nation. For example, here in Michigan here is a link to the pre-reqs for EACH school: http://ns.msu.edu/premed/PrePAGuide.pdf

And those are just the pre-reqs that are required. I know ppl who thought that they could apply with a Kinesiology degree and the bare minimum pre-requisites to get into UDM (that has the least amount of pre-reqs among the 6 MI PA schools) and never received an interview. For example, here at MSU there are several students who want to go to PA school so they pick the easy major route in Kinesiology because the major is practically a joke for even their 300 level courses. The issue is that they realize their junior year that they still need at least 24 credits in addition to their degree requirements just to be at the bare minimum pre-requisites to even get an interview. So they are sitting there in their 5th year with a Kinesiology degree in which they had a 3.5 GPA in their joke KIN classes, but then when they take the upper level Microbiology, Physiology, and Biochem courses the PA dream becomes fairly impossible because their GPA tumbles.

And instead of volunteering and shadowing you really should have been looking into getting a CNA or EMT certification. I am no longer a pre-PA student, but the advisors and professors I know all say that volunteering experience means practically nothing to the admissions committees. Why? Because the committees know what volunteers and shadows are legally allowed to do and it is nothing but watch. They want someone who has paid HANDS ON EXPERIENCE in a healthcare setting.

"My story is also very compelling, it shows that I am not in it for the money or the prestige," NO, NO IT DOESN'T. It will show to them that you didn't know what you wanted and didn't want to work part time and have responsibilities. That is the blunt truth! You may have what you believe to be 1,000 hours of shadowing or volunteering but there is no way for the school to fact check that. Do you think the guy you shadow keeps your hours on a spread sheet to send out to PA schools? NOPE! But if you actually worked in an office your paycheck and the HR department is a record for how many hours you worked.

So essentially your idea is this:
-Go get an MPH, that will cost about $50K over the next two years on average.
-Receive the MPH at about age 26 or 27.
-Then go back to a community college to finish your pre-requisites (which is probably 18 to 23 credits if you were a business student your first 3yrs in college).
-While you are taking these classes get more clinical experience in a paid aspect.
-Hope to get into PA school at about 28 or 29.

My personal opinion, SCREW THE MPH PROGRAM....if your main goal is PA school. If you are using the MPH as a backup plan then go for it. If I were you I would knock the pre-reqs out FIRST, get some paid experience, apply to PA school and MPH programs at the same time so you don't waste your next year if you are rejected by PA schools.

"Not that young, 23." You do know that 22 to 23 is the average age of a college grad???

EDIT: And P.S. before anybody starts commenting "...but the schools I got accepted to didn't care about Patient Care hours that much," I do say that I am talking STRICTLY about the schools that my counselors told me about back in 2012 when I was flip flopping between podiatry and PA school. What I was told is that here in Michigan it is considered next to California and one other state as the toughest state to get accepted to a PA school without 1,000 patient care experience (which is half a year of being a full time CNA or EMT) and many people I know weren't even considered without 1,500 hours. I had a friend when I worked at a nursing home who didn't even bother applying inside Michigan but applied to two PA schools in NY and one in Massachusetts because they most likely could care less about her having just 800 hours of PCE before applying. And she did get lucky because two of the schools did accept her. I didn't know what her GPA was but she was told by advisors that most PA schools don't take you seriously if you have less than 800 hours of PCE.

Your two biggest hurdles are that volunteer hours are hard to determine for the committee AND that you have a long way to go for the pre-reqs and really you are going to be taking all of them at a community college. I don't know about PA schools, but at least for the MD and DO schools they aren't going to be putting your 3.5 or 4.0 GPA grades in the science courses as stunning if all of them are at the community college level. I am not saying that a community college course isn't good, but these PA schools will be interviewing students who have wanted to go into medicine their whole college career and took 400+ level NatSci courses at a university, not a community college.

Yeah, I know my response sounds like I am a pr*ck, but I am giving you the feedback you SHOULD be given...and the way these schools admissions committee are more likely to look at your transcript.
Volunteering and shadowing is equivalent to community service. If that gets you into PA school then I would have been a shoe-in, but I know they don't. Volunteering is something they let just about anybody do. You could be an 18yr old kid and be able to volunteer at a hospital, but you won't do anything. You could be an 81yr old man and be able to volunteer at a hospital, but still won't do anything but greet people. That is how they will see it. I volunteered at a hospital for 2.5 summers and it was practically a waste of my 7am to 11am twice a week. Most of these PA schools know what a hospital or doctors office is legally allowed for you to do and they know it isn't much.

 

[deleted6669]

agree. volunteering is community service, not HCE.