MS, MA, MSW............or Medical Illustration?

[BlueFirez]

Lol yes the medical illustration is random in a mental health thread.....but I'm really confused about career choices. Short story, I have a medical degree and did a year of residency , it went horribly wrong and hated it. I plan on applying to psychiatry for the next cycle but I know the chances of getting in are pretty slim with my stats. I realized this year that I am not too interested in medicine, but I loved the counseling aspect of it when I saw the patients (for issues of depression, anxiety, grief, etc,) and felt it was more natural to me. I also have an art background and was interested in medical illustration since med school ( from looking at anatomy books). Now I just wanted to know your guys' opinion of what would be the better way to go?

1) I am interested in doing clinical psychotherapy and I think studying for it will be fun and interesting. I get bored easily - and to succeed I think I need something mentally stimulating ( I think a part of residency didn't go well since I wasn't interested in learning and managing about diseases like diabetes, hypertension, copd, myocardial infarction etc and I am just not too great with making clinical decisions about them).

2) MA in psych or MSW? I hear MSW leads to more job opportunities...but studying for MA in psych is more interesting?

3) Does online degrees lead to any jobs? How is the internship part done?

4) I have a ton of debt...and hoping to land a job that's a bit more on the higher end of salary to pay it off. I realize that to make more money, I would need to do a Phd - but 7 years is just too long for me. Is there any Phd degrees that would be shorter since I already have a medical degree. But so far I am not considering Phd or PsyD programs due to length of time. I think I saw some licensed counselor jobs with and offer of salary of 100, 000 +, but I have no idea how much experience you would need for that.

5) I am also interested in medical illustration - I have the med background so figure I could just combine it with my art skills. I always loved creating stuff and am fascinated by the medical illustrations I see when studying. Since it is competitive to get in the school, there isn't many med illustrators out there and this is a specialized field, there is a demand - but I don't think I'll enjoy studying the science/medical aspect for it. But maybe that will change because it will be more of active learning ( better understanding of medicine since have to draw it to explain it)

6) Would doing an online masters for counseling right now and applying to med illustration school for next year be cray cray? Lol I realize that I would have to put the online degree on hold if I do start a med illustration 2 year program next year. I just can't decide!

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[PsyDuck90]

I know literally nothing about med illustration, so I don't feel like I should comment on that.

Online counseling degrees are looked down on. Med school is taught entirely differently from MH education (based on my experiences and those of friends in med school). There is a lot more discussion that goes into the classes, and a lot of the learning is primarily done on these discussions. Classes in an MA or MSW program will usually include very little lecture. For this reason, online degrees are not looked at as highly. Also, it is more difficult to find clinical placements. Brick and mortar schools usually have cultivated strong relationships with nearby sites over the years, so there is an easier path to getting experience. If you go to an online school, you don't really have the support and backing of the program's reputation in the community to help you land a placement. An MSW and an MA in counseling will lead you to similar job opportunities, but the MSW is more versatile and more portable if you want to relocate to a new state.

Also, I would like to mention that an MA in psych is not a licensible degree. Psychologists don't have a master's level licensure. It would be a mental health counseling degree, which is considered a different discipline, just as social work is.

You will be hard-pressed to find a starting salary for either at higher than $50k. To get $100k+ salary with a master's level licensure, you either need to have a very lucrative cash only private practice or get into more administrative work.

MD and PhD/PsyD are 2 different things entirely. You will most likely not be able to transfer credits from your MD. Even students entering with a related master's degree can only transfer a limited number of credits, and a lot of it has to do with state licensure. For instance, to be eligible for a clinical psych license in my state, "no more than 1/3 of the doctoral credits shall have been transferred from another regionally accredited graduate school." There is also a very strict breakdown of what courses need to be taken, and it is unlikely that your med school courses would match those. Mostly, transfer credits are used for some electives.

Good luck!

 

[BlueFirez]

I know literally nothing about med illustration, so I don't feel like I should comment on that.

Online counseling degrees are looked down on. Med school is taught entirely differently from MH education (based on my experiences and those of friends in med school). There is a lot more discussion that goes into the classes, and a lot of the learning is primarily done on these discussions. Classes in an MA or MSW program will usually include very little lecture. For this reason, online degrees are not looked at as highly. Also, it is more difficult to find clinical placements. Brick and mortar schools usually have cultivated strong relationships with nearby sites over the years, so there is an easier path to getting experience. If you go to an online school, you don't really have the support and backing of the program's reputation in the community to help you land a placement. An MSW and an MA in counseling will lead you to similar job opportunities, but the MSW is more versatile and more portable if you want to relocate to a new state.

Also, I would like to mention that an MA in psych is not a licensible degree. Psychologists don't have a master's level licensure. It would be a mental health counseling degree, which is considered a different discipline, just as social work is.

You will be hard-pressed to find a starting salary for either at higher than $50k. To get $100k+ salary with a master's level licensure, you either need to have a very lucrative cash only private practice or get into more administrative work.

MD and PhD/PsyD are 2 different things entirely. You will most likely not be able to transfer credits from your MD. Even students entering with a related master's degree can only transfer a limited number of credits, and a lot of it has to do with state licensure. For instance, to be eligible for a clinical psych license in my state, "no more than 1/3 of the doctoral credits shall have been transferred from another regionally accredited graduate school." There is also a very strict breakdown of what courses need to be taken, and it is unlikely that your med school courses would match those. Mostly, transfer credits are used for some electives.

Good luck!

Thanks for your response - it was really helpful! It sounds like an online degree is not a great option - I didn't realize that school is more for discussion, I thought it was more lecture based ( lectures, takes test, do clinical). So an MS in psych sounds like it leads to nothing , just something enhance psych background and that might look good for Psych Phd programs. I did see NYU have an online MA in counseling degree - with even a well known school like that, could that not lead to a job?

Oh and what I actually meant was that I saw MD/Phd combined programs ( I not sure a Phd in what) , but it count down a little on the Phd requirements. But I know the curriculum was a little mixed....so some med school classes and then phd, then back to med school....something like that I think. But yeah, I thought maybe there might be a Phd program that might cut down a little bit time if you already have a medical degree. But you are right - MD and Phd really aren't related.

But yeah - it seems like this year, I really would have to make a choice of whether to pursue a counseling degree or medical illustration degree. Salary wise, I think with experience in illustration, might be able to increase salary over the years ( like to art director position )....but idk with counseling degree unless like with what you said, lucrative cash only or

 

[PsyDuck90]

MD/PhD programs grant a PhD in a medically-related field like biomedical sciences. Only a PhD or PsyD in clinical psychology or counseling psychology (and in some states EdD) will allow you to be licensed as a psychologist.

And yes, psych MAs are usually used to make up for a poor undergrad GPA/non-psych related undergrad background or get more research experience to become more competitive for a PhD.

Even with a reputable school, the issue of that lack of communication is still going to be a factor. Some disciplines lend themselves to online study. Therapy isn't really one of them.

 

[BlueFirez]

MD/PhD programs grant a PhD in a medically-related field like biomedical sciences. Only a PhD or PsyD in clinical psychology or counseling psychology (and in some states EdD) will allow you to be licensed as a psychologist.

And yes, psych MAs are usually used to make up for a poor undergrad GPA/non-psych related undergrad background or get more research experience to become more competitive for a PhD.

Even with a reputable school, the issue of that lack of communication is still going to be a factor. Some disciplines lend themselves to online study. Therapy isn't really one of them.

Okay that all makes sense about MD/Phd and psych MA. Oh and I sort of forgot I requested info about NYU and the recruiter called me today - he told me the 1st year the way it works is that you have your independent study ( lectures, assignments, etc) and I think once a week you meet for a live class for discussion. The second year you are doing 700hrs of field work of doing counseling under director supervision of an LPC. I asked if it mattered what state you are in and he said that no, NYU will always get you a field site. He said the curriculum is pretty much the same with on campus students and online students, but yeah the first year is just online. There is a 4 day networking event that is required and you have an adviser that is assigned to help you through the two years ( job placement, etc). Does this still sound like it isn't ideal ?

 

[PsyDuck90]

I mean you are free to do what you would like, but a recruiter has vested interest in you giving them your money. They're kind of notorious for selling the moon and the stars. I would independently look into any program prior to applying, whether online or in person. Also, states have different laws regarding licensure as an LPC. The requirements for 1 state may not meet those of another. If you want to avoid adding even more to your debt, I would just look at programs in your local state schools. They will also be set up to meet licensure requirements in your state. There is no reciprocity in most cases for LPC licensure.

 

[BlueFirez]

I mean you are free to do what you would like, but a recruiter has vested interest in you giving them your money. They're kind of notorious for selling the moon and the stars. I would independently look into any program prior to applying, whether online or in person. Also, states have different laws regarding licensure as an LPC. The requirements for 1 state may not meet those of another. If you want to avoid adding even more to your debt, I would just look at programs in your local state schools. They will also be set up to meet licensure requirements in your state. There is no reciprocity in most cases for LPC licensure.

Haha you right about the moon and the stars. I wasn't too thrilled at the high tuition either. But yeah, I will do my research but thank you for all the info!

 

[sfgucadoc]

Why not go to work in pharma for a few years to make big bucks, live frugally, and pay off your loans? That would give you some breathing space to figure out what you really want to do. You won't make as much in pharma in your current situation as you're not a senior physician boarded in a specialty but give it a shot. It definitely will be better than working as a counselor and trying to pay back mega buck loans.

 

[BlueFirez]

Why not go to work in pharma for a few years to make big bucks, live frugally, and pay off your loans? That would give you some breathing space to figure out what you really want to do. You won't make as much in pharma in your current situation as you're not a senior physician boarded in a specialty but give it a shot. It definitely will be better than working as a counselor and trying to pay back mega buck loans.

What would pharma job duties consist of ? What experience does it require? I wouldn't mind doing part time....I just feel tired of doing work I have no interest and gives me no fulfillment. I want to start working towards the career that I actually want

 

[Psychologist_dreamer]

Okay that all makes sense about MD/Phd and psych MA. Oh and I sort of forgot I requested info about NYU and the recruiter called me today - he told me the 1st year the way it works is that you have your independent study ( lectures, assignments, etc) and I think once a week you meet for a live class for discussion. The second year you are doing 700hrs of field work of doing counseling under director supervision of an LPC. I asked if it mattered what state you are in and he said that no, NYU will always get you a field site. He said the curriculum is pretty much the same with on campus students and online students, but yeah the first year is just online. There is a 4 day networking event that is required and you have an adviser that is assigned to help you through the two years ( job placement, etc). Does this still sound like it isn't ideal ?

If you already have a ton of debt, I'm sorry but WTF are you thinking with NYU. I was accepted to their MA program in psych..they dont offer funding and tuition for 1 year was 75k. I can't imagine their other MA programs being much different. Do not go to nyu.

 

[sfgucadoc]

What would pharma job duties consist of ? What experience does it require? I wouldn't mind doing part time....I just feel tired of doing work I have no interest and gives me no fulfillment. I want to start working towards the career that I actually want

Running clinical trials, providing subject matter expertise to less technical staff, marketing, business planning, As a physician, you'd have a lot of leeway. You might decide you want to do pharma longterm. Again, you'd be handicapped by not being boarded but that's not a complete deal-breaker

 

[Rapsidy]

Heyo, I have my MSW and worked as a social worker for a year and a half before deciding psychiatry is my passion and going that route now.

That being said, yes MSW offers a lot of job choices, however many jobs are nothing more than glorified paper pushers. I’d consider going the LPC route if you want straight counseling, but also keep in mind many in many states a LSW/LPC are equivalent just like a LCSW/LCPC are interchangeable.

If you are more interested in the counseling aspect of it and want higher pay in the 6 figure side, I’d strongly consider a PsyD, and if you like the medication management side, there are I believe currently 5 states that with some extra schooling allow PsyD to prescribe psych meds with a pretty significant boost in salary. Keep in mind though higher reward higher liability.