I'd like to obtain a MS degree in Biomedical Engineering, proceed to graduate school, then apply for MD/PhD programs. My logic behind all of this? I believe that it will provide more time for research in my field of study and will show MSTP programs that I'm capable of handling work at the graduate level in my field already. I'd like some insight as to whether or not this is a solid game plan for goal of acquiring both an MD and PhD degree. Lastly, I am hoping to apply to many top programs and would also appreciate further advice on the admissions process. Thank you in advance.
MS to MD/PhD
- Thread starter Krypton36
- Start date
I'm a first year and there is a student in my program who has done essentially what you are planning to do. There are actually quite a few people in my program who entered with masters degrees.
Now, forgive me because I'm not really familiar with biomed engineering....
I don' really understand your motives:
1. I believe that it will provide more time for research in my field of study
- and why wouldn't getting a PhD be sufficient time to do research in your field of study?
2. show MSTP programs that I'm capable of handling work at the graduate level in my field already
- Is there some reason they wouldn't believe you can handle the work now? Poor GPA, poor MCAT, minimal research experience? If you're not being limited by these factors or something else... schools will have no reason to believe that you cannot handle graduate-level work.
This MIGHT be a good plan if you're looking to boost your GPA (big might here) or if your research experiences have been lame up till this point. The other advantage I see about going this route is that you will likely be more focussed on what you want to do with your PhD by the time your enter the program, whereas many people entering directly from undergrad are not as certain what they want to pursue (some will argue this is a good thing, right now I disagree and wish I had more direction with my life at this point).
Assuming you have the credentials why not just begin a program at a place with good biomedical engineering? You writing this post clearly indicates you do not think that you are competitive for such a program at this point, but I'm not sure why. So, you may want to give some more details about yourself: gpa, mcat, research experience if you want a better idea of what the best plan is for you.
Now, forgive me because I'm not really familiar with biomed engineering....
I don' really understand your motives:
1. I believe that it will provide more time for research in my field of study
- and why wouldn't getting a PhD be sufficient time to do research in your field of study?
2. show MSTP programs that I'm capable of handling work at the graduate level in my field already
- Is there some reason they wouldn't believe you can handle the work now? Poor GPA, poor MCAT, minimal research experience? If you're not being limited by these factors or something else... schools will have no reason to believe that you cannot handle graduate-level work.
This MIGHT be a good plan if you're looking to boost your GPA (big might here) or if your research experiences have been lame up till this point. The other advantage I see about going this route is that you will likely be more focussed on what you want to do with your PhD by the time your enter the program, whereas many people entering directly from undergrad are not as certain what they want to pursue (some will argue this is a good thing, right now I disagree and wish I had more direction with my life at this point).
Assuming you have the credentials why not just begin a program at a place with good biomedical engineering? You writing this post clearly indicates you do not think that you are competitive for such a program at this point, but I'm not sure why. So, you may want to give some more details about yourself: gpa, mcat, research experience if you want a better idea of what the best plan is for you.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2002
- Messages
- 14,911
- Reaction score
- 8,811
When you say "handling work at the graduate level", I assume you are referring to graduate school classes. Everyone knows graduate courses typically have easy grading. Now this may be an exception in biomedical engineering, but adcoms often don't know this, so if you don't get straight As in these courses it could seriously hurt you. Thus, I'm not sure how master's courses would help you, but they could definitely hurt! The second aspect is research, which doesn't require a master's program to perform. There could be some amount of teaching, which won't hurt your application, but generally isn't a big deal for MD/PhD applications.
Thus, doing a master's before applying tends not to be as helpful as students often think it is. You might as well save yourself the tuition and just spend time doing research full-time, especially if that means you can get paid. If you need coursework for some reason, I often recommend night school courses or other unofficial post-bacc arrangements.
Is there some deficiency in your application you are trying to make up for? If so, let us know what that is and we could provide better advice. You state that you are interested in "top" programs, but have provided no reasoning for this. Thus, in the absence of knowing anything else about you, the standard advice in the sticky thread applies:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=539268
Thus, doing a master's before applying tends not to be as helpful as students often think it is. You might as well save yourself the tuition and just spend time doing research full-time, especially if that means you can get paid. If you need coursework for some reason, I often recommend night school courses or other unofficial post-bacc arrangements.
Is there some deficiency in your application you are trying to make up for? If so, let us know what that is and we could provide better advice. You state that you are interested in "top" programs, but have provided no reasoning for this. Thus, in the absence of knowing anything else about you, the standard advice in the sticky thread applies:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=539268
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2002
- Messages
- 14,911
- Reaction score
- 8,811
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=9269067&postcount=22
Wait a second... You're just starting college?! It's a little early to be asking about master's programs!!! The only things I can tell you now are:
Get involved in research early and often
Keep as close to a 4.0 as possible AT ALL COSTS. Cut out anything else within reason to preserve GPA. That means take a lighter schedule or withdraw from classes if necessary, don't take a really hard major unless you can keep up that 4.0, put ECs/research on the back burner, etc...
Take as many classes as possible, and especially your pre-medical requirements, at a 4-year university
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2002
- Messages
- 14,911
- Reaction score
- 8,811
I'm pretty sure we're going to have these kids posting soon:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/education/26winerip.html
I know it's really early to be considering a lot of these options, but there is no way I'll have enough time to complete the standard amount of meaningful research within a four year window-hence, the masters program I mentioned. Honestly, the only reason I was considering the Harvard classes was to beef up my resume/CV.
So...
Would it make that much of an impact to adcoms if I completed a masters program? On the other side of the token, as you said, should I continue research for a couple years and then apply? Would the programs ask why I didn't just apply with whatever research I (potentially) had?
Would it hurt my app if I knocked out a few classes while I'm at my CC? I'd like to transfer to top tear universities for my engineering degree or at least my states' flagship uni and I may or may not be held back a year if I don't complete at least Gen Bio/Chem...
:/
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/education/26winerip.html
"He knows about different fish, different birds, different species, Ms. Stewart said. Hes on it."
I'm on it
.you're likely not going to listen to me... but here it goes anyway
1st thing- don't make the REALLY dumb mistake of setting your career in stone at this point in your life. I know that from high school you have some preconceived notions about what types of classes you "like" and "do not like" but keep your mind open. The truth is that many subjects in college are radically different in terms of their content and styles once you get to a university. shrug me off, but its the truth. Better to acknowledge this now than 4 years down the line wondering what life would have been like had you majored in _____.
This isn't to say that more vague goals in mind are not helpful. being pre-med when I entered college was quite helpful for me. It made me realize how competitive the world is and that no matter what the topic was, I was going to kick its ass.
You're probably smart, but that doesn't mean that an MD-PhD is the best career path for you. Plenty of smart people go achieve high degrees because they feel it is what they should be doing and ultimately end up leading less fulfilling lives.
I don't care how smart you are; knowing that you're going to do an MD-PhD without having any experience with research is just silly. You're getting way ahead of yourself here.
K I'll get off the soap box now.
I would suggest that you don't take ANY of your premed classes at CC if you can avoid it. It will be a red flag for several reasons: CCs are notoriously easy so your A+++ in the class means next to nothing. Some might also interpret the decision as you trying to find an easy way out from taking the pre-med classes at your home institution. You're likely not going to cover all of the content you will need for the MCAT- and even if you do, there won't be much depth to what you're required to learn. Unless your are at a university that specifically suggests that you take your premed classes elsewhere, take them where you are.
What I still don't understand is " no way I'll have enough time to complete the standard amount of meaningful research within a four year window-hence." What are you talking about? Do you have some special circumstances? If not, there's no excuse for someone as focussed as you to not have 3 summers + several semesters of research before you could apply your senior year. Most any program will consider that sufficient. What do you think is the standard amount? Plenty of people will enter top programs with only 2 summers + school year research experience.
Take the advice neuronix gave you. Keep your grades high. Beginning your spring semester, either begin making arrangements to work in a lab that interests you on your campus or begin applying for one of the many available summer undergraduate research programs ("SURPs" or "SURFs"). I would highly suggest doing research at your home institution though as it will give you the opportunity to continue doing work doing the school year if you are interested. If possible, actually doing research with and MD-PhD would be invaluable for your application (although certainly not required).
Finally, if you feel your interests are changing in college... don't hesitate to just go with it. The reality of being an MD-PhD isn't as pretty as it sounds. If you read a lot on here and other places you'll understand the ideal picture painted for most applicants of a physician hustling between his/her lab and hospital bed is super rare. If you fall in love with research, there's a good chance the MD is a waste of time for you. If you're interested in making more money, the MD really isn't going to help if you stay in research and the PhD sure as hell won't help your reputation with docs in a private practice who are likely going to just see you as an inferior physician. Don't mean to be a downer; but be open minded over the next several years.
Good luck.
1st thing- don't make the REALLY dumb mistake of setting your career in stone at this point in your life. I know that from high school you have some preconceived notions about what types of classes you "like" and "do not like" but keep your mind open. The truth is that many subjects in college are radically different in terms of their content and styles once you get to a university. shrug me off, but its the truth. Better to acknowledge this now than 4 years down the line wondering what life would have been like had you majored in _____.
This isn't to say that more vague goals in mind are not helpful. being pre-med when I entered college was quite helpful for me. It made me realize how competitive the world is and that no matter what the topic was, I was going to kick its ass.
You're probably smart, but that doesn't mean that an MD-PhD is the best career path for you. Plenty of smart people go achieve high degrees because they feel it is what they should be doing and ultimately end up leading less fulfilling lives.
I don't care how smart you are; knowing that you're going to do an MD-PhD without having any experience with research is just silly. You're getting way ahead of yourself here.
K I'll get off the soap box now.
I would suggest that you don't take ANY of your premed classes at CC if you can avoid it. It will be a red flag for several reasons: CCs are notoriously easy so your A+++ in the class means next to nothing. Some might also interpret the decision as you trying to find an easy way out from taking the pre-med classes at your home institution. You're likely not going to cover all of the content you will need for the MCAT- and even if you do, there won't be much depth to what you're required to learn. Unless your are at a university that specifically suggests that you take your premed classes elsewhere, take them where you are.
What I still don't understand is " no way I'll have enough time to complete the standard amount of meaningful research within a four year window-hence." What are you talking about? Do you have some special circumstances? If not, there's no excuse for someone as focussed as you to not have 3 summers + several semesters of research before you could apply your senior year. Most any program will consider that sufficient. What do you think is the standard amount? Plenty of people will enter top programs with only 2 summers + school year research experience.
Take the advice neuronix gave you. Keep your grades high. Beginning your spring semester, either begin making arrangements to work in a lab that interests you on your campus or begin applying for one of the many available summer undergraduate research programs ("SURPs" or "SURFs"). I would highly suggest doing research at your home institution though as it will give you the opportunity to continue doing work doing the school year if you are interested. If possible, actually doing research with and MD-PhD would be invaluable for your application (although certainly not required).
Finally, if you feel your interests are changing in college... don't hesitate to just go with it. The reality of being an MD-PhD isn't as pretty as it sounds. If you read a lot on here and other places you'll understand the ideal picture painted for most applicants of a physician hustling between his/her lab and hospital bed is super rare. If you fall in love with research, there's a good chance the MD is a waste of time for you. If you're interested in making more money, the MD really isn't going to help if you stay in research and the PhD sure as hell won't help your reputation with docs in a private practice who are likely going to just see you as an inferior physician. Don't mean to be a downer; but be open minded over the next several years.
Good luck.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2002
- Messages
- 14,911
- Reaction score
- 8,811
