MS1, been having difficulty getting involved in dermatology?

[Squamous Eddie]

Hello,

I'm a first year at my school currently, and have been interested in derm since undergrad. For some background: My M1 courses are going well as we approach the end of the year, and I've gotten honors in all of them. My MCAT was great, and I anticipate that my academics will not prove an obstacle.

Back around September, I started sending out emails regarding doing research to attendings in our home dermatology program, but have been met with a resounding silence. One attending spoke to me over the phone and said he potentially had a project I could work on, however when I tried to contact him again, I unfortunately received no response, despite additional follow-ups. I understand that these physicians are extremely busy, but it has been very discouraging when I am not even given a single sentence response. I still have that attending's phone number, but I feel very apprehensive about calling him on his cell phone, so out of the blue. So I gave up somewhere around January, and instead, I got involved in plastic surgery research, and will be doing a summer project in that.

However, after match day, my desire to keep trying for derm has been reinvigorated. I am basically willing to do whatever it takes to match derm, but am having an extraordinarily tough time even getting my foot in the door. A classmate of mine suggested attending derm grand rounds, or visiting an attending's office to try to talk to them in person about doing research if they are not responding to emails, but I am trying not to annoy anyone in our department because I'd be thrilled to match here, and don't want to step on any toes this early on. I realize I'm still in M1 so it's not the end of the world, but the sooner I can get the ball rolling toward this, the more at ease I'll feel going into M2.

So, my question to you all: what would you recommend my next steps be? Last week I emailed the single M4 that matched into derm, and am still awaiting a response from him. I've asked my own M4 mentor to see if he can get me in contact with any of his classmates or friends that have been successful in the match, or at least successful getting in contact with the department, and hopefully he can get back to me soon. But after being ignored so often, it is hard not losing hope. Thanks to anyone that has advice for me!

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[asmallchild]

Hello,

I'm a first year at my school currently, and have been interested in derm since undergrad. For some background: My M1 courses are going well as we approach the end of the year, and I've gotten honors in all of them. My MCAT was great, and I anticipate that my academics will not prove an obstacle.

Back around September, I started sending out emails regarding doing research to attendings in our home dermatology program, but have been met with a resounding silence. One attending spoke to me over the phone and said he potentially had a project I could work on, however when I tried to contact him again, I unfortunately received no response, despite additional follow-ups. I understand that these physicians are extremely busy, but it has been very discouraging when I am not even given a single sentence response. I still have that attending's phone number, but I feel very apprehensive about calling him on his cell phone, so out of the blue. So I gave up somewhere around January, and instead, I got involved in plastic surgery research, and will be doing a summer project in that.

However, after match day, my desire to keep trying for derm has been reinvigorated. I am basically willing to do whatever it takes to match derm, but am having an extraordinarily tough time even getting my foot in the door. A classmate of mine suggested attending derm grand rounds, or visiting an attending's office to try to talk to them in person about doing research if they are not responding to emails, but I am trying not to annoy anyone in our department because I'd be thrilled to match here, and don't want to step on any toes this early on. I realize I'm still in M1 so it's not the end of the world, but the sooner I can get the ball rolling toward this, the more at ease I'll feel going into M2.

So, my question to you all: what would you recommend my next steps be? Last week I emailed the single M4 that matched into derm, and am still awaiting a response from him. I've asked my own M4 mentor to see if he can get me in contact with any of his classmates or friends that have been successful in the match, or at least successful getting in contact with the department, and hopefully he can get back to me soon. But after being ignored so often, it is hard not losing hope. Thanks to anyone that has advice for me!

I would agree that calling the attending is probably not a good idea.

I go agree with the idea of attending grand rounds and gently inquiring about any research activities. I also agree with the idea of contacting matched MS4s from your school to see if they can offer any suggestions.

Is there an opportunity to shadow a member of the derm faculty during your MS1 year? Many schools have this sort of program in place now to show students in the pre-clinical years what they are working towards. That should be a fairly organic transition from shadowing with said faculty member to then inquiring if he/she has any research projects or if they know anyone in the department who does.

 

[Squamous Eddie]

I would agree that calling the attending is probably not a good idea.

I go agree with the idea of attending grand rounds and gently inquiring about any research activities. I also agree with the idea of contacting matched MS4s from your school to see if they can offer any suggestions.

Is there an opportunity to shadow a member of the derm faculty during your MS1 year? Many schools have this sort of program in place now to show students in the pre-clinical years what they are working towards. That should be a fairly organic transition from shadowing with said faculty member to then inquiring if he/she has any research projects or if they know anyone in the department who does.

Thanks for your response. Despite people telling me it was probably okay to call him directly, I really didn't want to do that unless I had no options remaining. I heard from a classmate that the only way to reach him really is through the education coordinator for dermatology at our institute, so I've sent her an email to see if she can help me out. Is it normal for it to be this difficult to find research in dermatology? My position with my plastic surgery mentor was extremely straightforward to get.

What is the best way to find out where/when grand rounds are held? Our school's website only shows a few specialties' schedules, and so I am not certain who to ask regarding that, other than the aforementioned education coordinator (who I did ask in my email) and the physicians themselves.

And as for your last point, yes, we do have a program like that. They matched us into very short (~1 month long) rotations once a week for the tail end of this year, with one being a specialty and one being a primary care field. However, we don't get to choose the specialty, and I got cardiology.

Thanks for your help! I really appreciate it.

 

[zhopv10]

Another thing I found during MSI (I wasn't pursuing derm at the time but I think still applies) is that when I was shadowing I would try and talk with the residents more about research and spend some time with them shadowing. I found they often had a pretty good sense of what projects were going on in the department and were often doing a handful of projects. Virtually all of the projects I've been involved in through medical school have gone through initially at least a resident. That then transitions into meeting the attending and potentially having them as a mentor of course as well. I think this method rather than directly trying to work through attending can feel more organic (I did do both however, just found more success this way).


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[testanxiety]

I think its best to work your way up the hierarchy. Ask the recently matched m4s who the most approachable faculty and residents are, and then contact those people regarding your interests to get involved. Another mode is to contact the residency program coordinator (PC for short) and ask for faculty/resident contact information regarding shadowing and research opportunities. The PC will likely steer you in the right direction as he/se may know the faculty/residents who are usually more receptive to med student involvement. The key is to be reasonably persistent/eager without being pushy/over-bearing. Best wishes!

 

[Squamous Eddie]

Thanks for everyone's responses. Some quick updates:

I managed to get in contact with the MS4 who matched this year, however he said basically that he doesn't know about any projects for MS1's going on at the moment. I don't really get this, because I feel like MS1's would have more time to work on projects than those in MS2+?

I did find out when grand rounds are, so I'll probably attend that and see if I can strike up a conversation with one of the residents to see if there are any projects they might have I could work on.

On that note, grand rounds here are held monthly. Is it a good idea to try to attend these regularly and maybe start introducing myself to the residents and attendings for shadowing/research purposes? Or is it a bit too early for that? I am interested most in matching at my home institution, so I felt like it would be a good idea if I show up and demonstrate a continued interest in our home department, but I have heard of students who shot themselves in the foot by being too eager, too early on... Thanks for the advice!

 

[asmallchild]

Thanks for everyone's responses. Some quick updates:

I managed to get in contact with the MS4 who matched this year, however he said basically that he doesn't know about any projects for MS1's going on at the moment. I don't really get this, because I feel like MS1's would have more time to work on projects than those in MS2+?

I did find out when grand rounds are, so I'll probably attend that and see if I can strike up a conversation with one of the residents to see if there are any projects they might have I could work on.

On that note, grand rounds here are held monthly. Is it a good idea to try to attend these regularly and maybe start introducing myself to the residents and attendings for shadowing/research purposes? Or is it a bit too early for that? I am interested most in matching at my home institution, so I felt like it would be a good idea if I show up and demonstrate a continued interest in our home department, but I have heard of students who shot themselves in the foot by being too eager, too early on... Thanks for the advice!

How large are the grand rounds? If you are going to blend into a large crowd, it wouldn't be a bad idea to start attending and learning about some of the topics and more importantly, some of the big names in the department.

If grand rounds are a smaller, more intimate setting, I would wait until you have an actual research project and know the department a little better.

 

[marieclarie224]

How large are the grand rounds? If you are going to blend into a large crowd, it wouldn't be a bad idea to start attending and learning about some of the topics and more importantly, some of the big names in the department.

If grand rounds are a smaller, more intimate setting, I would wait until you have an actual research project and know the department a little better.

Would it be inappropriate/strange to walk into grand rounds by yourself and sit down as an M1 without any connections to the department? Should one just sit there and listen or take notes?

How would you be able to determine the size of grand rounds for Derm without having attended it before?

Thanks for your input!

 

[testanxiety]

Would it be inappropriate/strange to walk into grand rounds by yourself and sit down as an M1 without any connections to the department? Should one just sit there and listen or take notes?

How would you be able to determine the size of grand rounds for Derm without having attended it before?

Thanks for your input!

I think all of this depends on the institution and size of the grand rounds, as mentioned above. The best way for you to gauge this is to ask the M4s about the size of grand rounds, assuming they attended. My school has a medium-sized grand rounds, and I only attended when my PI/Mentor in derm suggested it early on in my M1 year. I got set up with this mentor as the dermatology department at my school solicited applications from M1 students looking for summer research projects.

I think reaching out to residents and/or involved faculty mentors (with a history of working with med students) is your next best bet. If you have absolutely no way of doing this, ask your dean of student affairs or someone at your med school who coordinates student research projects about which faculty members in dermatology students have worked with in the past. The dermatology clerkship/elective director might be another person to try, because they work with med students anyway through the clerkship, so they might be more "in the know."

Best of luck!

 

[Squamous Eddie]

Thanks to everyone who offered advice. After being persistent, I managed to secure some research with an oncologist who is doing research on melanoma. She wanted to remind me that she wasn't a dermatologist, but I mean, melanoma is melanoma, right? So I have a good avenue of research lined up for the summer.

Also, I was able to attend grand rounds the other day, which was a pretty cool experience, though it was cut short because I had an exam that I had to leave for. It definitely was a more small, intimate setting, though. It consisted basically just of the 12 or so residents, 3-4 attendings, and the chair of the department. I was able to introduce myself to a couple of the residents and one of the attendings, and will probably go one more time without the burden of a looming exam, and maybe ask if I can shadow/work with one of the attendings or residents. Looks like just showing up in person is really the best way to get your foot in the door.

Oh, and as an aside, I've been advised actually twice now that my main focus in M1 and M2 should just be to get as high a STEP score as I can, and that I really don't need to worry about research these 2 years. Can anyone else weigh in on this? Thanks again!

 

[asmallchild]

Thanks to everyone who offered advice. After being persistent, I managed to secure some research with an oncologist who is doing research on melanoma. She wanted to remind me that she wasn't a dermatologist, but I mean, melanoma is melanoma, right? So I have a good avenue of research lined up for the summer.

Also, I was able to attend grand rounds the other day, which was a pretty cool experience, though it was cut short because I had an exam that I had to leave for. It definitely was a more small, intimate setting, though. It consisted basically just of the 12 or so residents, 3-4 attendings, and the chair of the department. I was able to introduce myself to a couple of the residents and one of the attendings, and will probably go one more time without the burden of a looming exam, and maybe ask if I can shadow/work with one of the attendings or residents. Looks like just showing up in person is really the best way to get your foot in the door.

Oh, and as an aside, I've been advised actually twice now that my main focus in M1 and M2 should just be to get as high a STEP score as I can, and that I really don't need to worry about research these 2 years. Can anyone else weigh in on this? Thanks again!

Melanoma is melanoma but a big part of research is getting a research mentor (preferably one within dermatology) to go to bat for you come application season. I agree you should definitely move forward with this project but I would keep your eyes and ears open with the derm department to see if you can possibly work on two projects during the summer between MS1 and MS2

I can't speak to how grand rounds truly went. Were there any other students there? It is very possible it went well. I would disagree that just showing up is the best way to handle this. I can tell you that leaving grand rounds (particularly one as small as the one you described) at my home program isn't a good look for any medical student.

Regarding your last point, yes, in general, how well you do preclinically will dictate how well you do on Step 1. All the research in the world won't save you if you have a subpar Step 1. If you are doing well in your preclinical courses and feel like you can shoulder the burden of a research project, then it certainly doesn't hurt. Looks like you are off to a great start by securing a melanoma project. Best of luck!

 

[19pieces19]

Bringing back an old thread, but I'm having similar problems as BreakneckWalrus. It seems my classmates in other fields are already involved in research but I can't find anything to do in the dermatology department here. Emails go unanswered or they say they have no projects. We have paid summer opportunities in other specialties, even competitive ones like ortho and plastics, but there's nothing in dermatology.

Should I reach out to faculty at nearby medical schools? Is that a faux pas?

 

[asmallchild]

Bringing back an old thread, but I'm having similar problems as BreakneckWalrus. It seems my classmates in other fields are already involved in research but I can't find anything to do in the dermatology department here. Emails go unanswered or they say they have no projects. We have paid summer opportunities in other specialties, even competitive ones like ortho and plastics, but there's nothing in dermatology.

Should I reach out to faculty at nearby medical schools? Is that a faux pas?

Not at all, if your home department doesn't have opportunities, it's time to look elsewhere

I do find it odd that they don't have a single project available. Have you asked more senior students what they did if they were interested in derm research?

 

[19pieces19]

Not at all, if your home department doesn't have opportunities, it's time to look elsewhere

I do find it odd that they don't have a single project available. Have you asked more senior students what they did if they were interested in derm research?

I don't really have any contact with senior students at my school. The faculty and residents that I've emailed from the school website have not yielded any research opportunities, unfortunately.

I'm kind of worried that it's a wild-goose chase to pursue dermatology here, with an unlikely match. I kind of feel like I could be using this time strengthening my application for other specialties, even though I'm most interested in dermatology. Like I'm kind of twiddling my thumbs while my friends are improving their apps for their respective careers.

Thanks, I may try contacting a nearby school.

 

[dermathalon]

What's with all the pins and needles to get to a derm attending and going through the resident first to gently get to an attending? This is crazy if students have to walk on such pins and needles. No one is THAT busy, especially at an academic institution.

To OP and 19pieces, your experiences are not the experience at all institutions. If a person is not able to respond to your email after that many tries, they are probably not going to be the kind of mentor that will push you to your best. This is not the norm. In interviews this year, we have applicants that have 20+ to even 30+ pubs who started early. You can tell which mentors really cared and their letters are dynamite and they uplifted the students quite a lot.

You should contact nearby schools.

 

[MilkIsGood]

and to add to dermathalon, my school had no derm research projects. i pretty much made my own projects up and they all got published. if you're determined to get research, you can get it done. i also got on a project at a program in my hometown and also got that published. stop making excuses and find a way to get stuff done

 

[cableguy555]

Go to website of your nearest derm residency and look up the contact information of all the PGY2 residents in dermatology. Email them about strategies to match in derm and ask about their research experiences. They're much more approachable and probably empathize more with a medical school student than any attending would.