MS4 Looking to Take a Year off

[FIREitUP]

Hey guys,

I decided on Derm pretty late; about 4.5 months ago. I thought that I would be able to find enough research opportunities/make connections over the past few months but I've come up mainly empty handed (that coupled with poor advocating on my home program's part). Since my numbers are pretty good, a couple of the senior residents I worked with suggested that I take a year off to make sure my application is solid. I was told basically to go online and find email addressses and just send a lot form emails with my CV and see if anyone would take me.

My question to you guys is, is there a better way to go about doing this? Also, many of these doctors don't have email addresses, would cold calling be a viable option (I don't want to piss anyone off)? My school has no research going on.

Thanks, guys!

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[dermie1985]

I think you'd probably need to make the decision (1) YES. I'm 100% taking a year off and doing research or (2) I'm just going to apply. I'd do this (and commit to it) before emailing anyone. If you end deciding to just apply, you wouldn't want to alert programs that you're consider withdrawing your application later on for a research gap year.

Are there derm programs/research in the city your medical school is in? It's already August and (most?) people who I know who took gap years between 3rd and 4th started in July or September. Most of these gap years were arranged well in advance (like 4-6 months in advance). I think it might be difficult to find a position with such short notice. Just logistically, if it has to be in another city, you'd have to factor in the feasibility of moving/finding an apartment/etc. Furthermore, you really want to be selective with a gap year in terms of quality of project and mentor. Otherwise, you may just end up delaying your application for a year without any real benefit. An alternative would be to finish up your 4th year electives and look for a position starting in January to continue through most of your "5th" year while you apply.

I'd recommend sitting down and thinking about (1) the strength and weaknesses of your current application (2) the feasibility of finding a quality mentor on short notice (3) whether you would be productive (i.e. good letter of recommendation, publications, abstract, or conference presentations by next September) in the available amount of time you'd have for research and (4) if your motivations are merely to "beef up your application" or if you really want to do research in this field. There's probably little point in taking a research year unless you feel it will truly be a meaningful experience that will either add to your application or contribute to an academic/research career.

 

[asmallchild]

Hey guys,

I decided on Derm pretty late; about 4.5 months ago. I thought that I would be able to find enough research opportunities/make connections over the past few months but I've come up mainly empty handed (that coupled with poor advocating on my home program's part). Since my numbers are pretty good, a couple of the senior residents I worked with suggested that I take a year off to make sure my application is solid. I was told basically to go online and find email addressses and just send a lot form emails with my CV and see if anyone would take me.

My question to you guys is, is there a better way to go about doing this? Also, many of these doctors don't have email addresses, would cold calling be a viable option (I don't want to piss anyone off)? My school has no research going on.

Thanks, guys!

If you are serious about taking a year off, it is definitely worthwhile. I have met few students who have regretted the decision to do this. Even if you are on the fence, I always tell people to view it as one year "wasted" en route to a multi-decade career

As to how to get your foot in the door, cold-calling or cold-emailing is not a bad idea. Calling is OK but usually you'll have to go through the department coordinator anyway. I would focus on programs with a history of taking research fellows and more importantly, getting their research fellows matched (whether it's internally or being strong advocates to get them into outside programs) Best of luck

 

[FIREitUP]

I think you'd probably need to make the decision (1) YES. I'm 100% taking a year off and doing research or (2) I'm just going to apply. I'd do this (and commit to it) before emailing anyone. If you end deciding to just apply, you wouldn't want to alert programs that you're consider withdrawing your application later on for a research gap year.

Are there derm programs/research in the city your medical school is in? It's already August and (most?) people who I know who took gap years between 3rd and 4th started in July or September. Most of these gap years were arranged well in advance (like 4-6 months in advance). I think it might be difficult to find a position with such short notice. Just logistically, if it has to be in another city, you'd have to factor in the feasibility of moving/finding an apartment/etc. Furthermore, you really want to be selective with a gap year in terms of quality of project and mentor. Otherwise, you may just end up delaying your application for a year without any real benefit. An alternative would be to finish up your 4th year electives and look for a position starting in January to continue through most of your "5th" year while you apply.

I'd recommend sitting down and thinking about (1) the strength and weaknesses of your current application (2) the feasibility of finding a quality mentor on short notice (3) whether you would be productive (i.e. good letter of recommendation, publications, abstract, or conference presentations by next September) in the available amount of time you'd have for research and (4) if your motivations are merely to "beef up your application" or if you really want to do research in this field. There's probably little point in taking a research year unless you feel it will truly be a meaningful experience that will either add to your application or contribute to an academic/research career.

Thanks for getting back to me. I am basically 100% certain I wish to take a year off. I decided on Derm in April and basically I was hoping that throughout the year I would have opportunities to get research in, and while I did get some; the ones I did get sort of fell through. I know it is a difficult feat to find someone to do research with this late. Even when I just had decided in April it was late, but I see what is needed to do well in the match, and honestly I don't have it. Honestly, I think it could be a real benefit for me to do research for a year. I've been worn down by rotations and it would be a nice change of pace to learn more about a field that I have come to really enjoy and love. I was thinking of doing what you mentioned; finishing this semester and going from January-January, but I think it would be wise to start looking now. I live around NYC so there are a lot of academic places around here to consider.

Do you have any suggestions on how to go about looking for a good research mentor? Thanks again guys, I appreciate it!

 

[dermie1985]

Thanks for getting back to me. I am basically 100% certain I wish to take a year off. I decided on Derm in April and basically I was hoping that throughout the year I would have opportunities to get research in, and while I did get some; the ones I did get sort of fell through. I know it is a difficult feat to find someone to do research with this late. Even when I just had decided in April it was late, but I see what is needed to do well in the match, and honestly I don't have it. Honestly, I think it could be a real benefit for me to do research for a year. I've been worn down by rotations and it would be a nice change of pace to learn more about a field that I have come to really enjoy and love. I was thinking of doing what you mentioned; finishing this semester and going from January-January, but I think it would be wise to start looking now. I live around NYC so there are a lot of academic places around here to consider.

Do you have any suggestions on how to go about looking for a good research mentor? Thanks again guys, I appreciate it!

Have you talked to your dermatology clerkship director? Or any other dermatology faculty at your home institution? They may have good advice on year-off and research opportunities locally. I'm sure the NYC dermatology community is still small enough that they know a lot of people in research at the academic programs and can point you in the right direction.

I also think doing a little bit of research and deciding on a select number of labs to email would be better than mass emails. Not all research is equal and you should be looking for projects on topics you're legitimately interested in (I think "but all derm research interests me" is not a good response). Basic science? Clinical? Epidemiology? Policy? Public health? Melanoma? Psoriasis? etc.

 

[DermViser]

If you are serious about taking a year off, it is definitely worthwhile. I have met few students who have regretted the decision to do this. Even if you are on the fence, I always tell people to view it as one year "wasted" en route to a multi-decade career

As to how to get your foot in the door, cold-calling or cold-emailing is not a bad idea. Calling is OK but usually you'll have to go through the department coordinator anyway. I would focus on programs with a history of taking research fellows and more importantly, getting their research fellows matched (whether it's internally or being strong advocates to get them into outside programs) Best of luck

Why do they regret it?

 

[FIREitUP]

Have you talked to your dermatology clerkship director? Or any other dermatology faculty at your home institution? They may have good advice on year-off and research opportunities locally. I'm sure the NYC dermatology community is still small enough that they know a lot of people in research at the academic programs and can point you in the right direction.

I also think doing a little bit of research and deciding on a select number of labs to email would be better than mass emails. Not all research is equal and you should be looking for projects on topics you're legitimately interested in (I think "but all derm research interests me" is not a good response). Basic science? Clinical? Epidemiology? Policy? Public health? Melanoma? Psoriasis? etc.

Thanks for the advice. I will have a talk with my program director at school, but she hasn't been super helpful to be honest and I don't have high hopes for getting any guidance in that area. This is why I feel so lost at the moment. I remember asking the chair of my department for guidance and the most he told me was "derm is hard double apply".

I agree with you on the research aspect, but I'm at the point where I have asked and asked for research and have come up empty handed. Anything would be better than nothing.

 

[DermViser]

Thanks for the advice. I will have a talk with my program director at school, but she hasn't been super helpful to be honest and I don't have high hopes for getting any guidance in that area. This is why I feel so lost at the moment. I remember asking the chair of my department for guidance and the most he told me was "derm is hard double apply".

I agree with you on the research aspect, but I'm at the point where I have asked and asked for research and have come up empty handed. Anything would be better than nothing.

What do you mean she hasn't been helpful? She doesn't know people in derm in the state (assuming you want to remain close to home) who do research?

Some people take a year off and do clinical research with their home department, other people do it in a different state. Depending on how involved the chair is in residency apps (which may not be much), I'm sure he gets tons of people who ask, many of whom may not qualify after board scores and class rank, so he tells people to have backups. Hardly bad advice.

 

[asmallchild]

Why do they regret it?

When they select a poor research program (i.e. one that doesn't allow you to publish a paper in an entire year and has zero history of matching its fellows)

 

[FIREitUP]

What do you mean she hasn't been helpful? She doesn't know people in derm in the state (assuming you want to remain close to home) who do research?

Some people take a year off and do clinical research with their home department, other people do it in a different state. Depending on how involved the chair is in residency apps (which may not be much), I'm sure he gets tons of people who ask, many of whom may not qualify after board scores and class rank, so he tells people to have backups. Hardly bad advice.

I'm not so sure she is well connected. I remember asking about research years a few months back and I didn't get anywhere. Maybe I haven't assertive enough. I will ask if she knows anyone who is doing research in the area.

 

[DermViser]

I'm not so sure she is well connected. I remember asking about research years a few months back and I didn't get anywhere. Maybe I haven't assertive enough. I will ask if she knows anyone who is doing research in the area.

Well around NYC alone there is:

NY New York Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai Program 0803521061 P
NY New York Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai/St Luke’s-Roosevelt Hospital Center Program 0803521124 P
NY New York New York Presbyterian Hospital (Columbia Campus) Program 0803521104 P
NY New York New York Presbyterian Hospital (Cornell Campus) Program 0803521062 P
NY New York New York University School of Medicine Program 0803521064 P
NY New York City New York Medical College (Metropolitan) Program

Mt. Sinai, St. Luke's, Cornell, Columbia, NYU all do well-known dermatology research in different areas of dermatology.

 

[Dermione Granger]

To add to that Einstein in Bronx also has active research and fellowship opportunities.

 

[FIREitUP]

Yes, luckily NYC is a great place for academics. The problem is I need a way to get my foot through the door and know who to get in touch with.

 

[Dermione Granger]

I did not do a research fellowship but most people I know just cold email big name derm researchers. If their name is not listed on the school/hospital website, you can bypass that by searching that person on pubmed. Their contact email is usually listed if they are the corresponding author. If the person's lab is full, you can always follow up the conversation by kindly asking if he/she can recommend a colleague looking for a fellow. See what is available first, then ask around and see if the person has history of matching their fellows, if the person has good connections and reputation. I'm sorry your home department isn't very supportive. I hope you are able to work out a fruitful research opportunity.

 

[DermViser]

Yes, luckily NYC is a great place for academics. The problem is I need a way to get my foot through the door and know who to get in touch with.

Email the mentor directly - explain who you are and what you're looking for and attach a CV. In your case, I would recommend sticking with clinical research. Working in a lab is great, but you likely will not get anything published in a year. Your goal is to find a year in which you can crank out publications. You can talk with previous fellows (those who did a fellowship after doing a 1 year internship) to see how productive it is. I don't know whether Doris Duke fellowships still exist to where you can get a stipend to do research. Either way when you apply for the match, you will likely need the support of your home program, so don't shun them. You need to be proactive as it won't be handed to you on a silver platter.

 

[FIREitUP]

Email the mentor directly - explain who you are and what you're looking for and attach a CV. In your case, I would recommend sticking with clinical research. Working in a lab is great, but you likely will not get anything published in a year. Your goal is to find a year in which you can crank out publications. You can talk with previous fellows (those who did a fellowship after doing a 1 year internship) to see how productive it is. I don't know whether Doris Duke fellowships still exist to where you can get a stipend to do research. Either way when you apply for the match, you will likely need the support of your home program, so don't shun them. You need to be proactive as it won't be handed to you on a silver platter.

Sounds good, I will try to meet with my program director at home today and will get on this ASAP.

Edit: Just wanted to thank you all for helping me!

 

[Dral]

Keep in mind that the fellowships that give you the best exposure are those where you get clinical exposure...usually requiring completion of intern year/step 3.

I'm a resident at one of the NYC programs and doing a fellowship and aways at the NYC programs will help if you want to stay. I didn't do a research fellowship, but I did an away at a NYC program, which I believe really helped me land my spot (not at the place where I did my away).

It's a little OT, but I gotta plug doing residency in NYC. Tons of good pathology (I've seen rickettsial pox, a good 5 or so adult varicella, lots of neglected tumors, hanson's, etc). Skin of every color. Lots of cosmetics exposure. The downside is that most require a lot of travel around the city.

NYC residents a lot of times take jobs in NYC. It's a hard market to break into, but once you're in, it's not as difficult to stay, if that is your long term goal....but we're getting ahead of ourselves a bit here. 😉

 

[FIREitUP]

thanks for all your support!

 

[Slack3r]

I'm surprised your home program (that's pretty large by derm standards) doesn't have any research available.

 

[DermViser]

I'm surprised your home program (that's pretty large by derm standards) doesn't have any research available.

Well there is a certain Derm program in NY in which they only take people who have finished an internship year, let's just say it's not well funded. So research is not even on the radar.

 

[FIREitUP]

Well there is a certain Derm program in NY in which they only take people who have finished an internship year, let's just say it's not well funded. So research is not even on the radar.

edditttt

 

[FIREitUP]

just wanted to let you guys know i found an awesome place, solely because of Dermviser's immense help. He saved my butt from what could have been a terrible year.