MS4 Perspective

[OrthoPod57]

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Good luck to those applying and those accepted! Med school is quite a ride... you will both work harder than you have ever worked, and love what you are doing more than ever before.

I'm and MS4 with plenty of time on my hands and figured I'd share my persective on med school for anyone who has questions.

About me: I was a non-traditional applicant who completed a 2yr MS degree before matriculating to med school. This was a huge step for me and basically the only reason I got in to MD school because of the strides I made on my GPA and with research. I never bested 27 on the MCAT and had an undergrad GPA of 3.45.

Because of my time off I was more prepared for med school than most and was able to finish in the top 10% of my class (midwest top 40 NIH funded med school). I had plenty of research experience which was a huge boost for going after a competitive subspecialty. I'm going into orthopedic surgery and really looking forward to the March 15 match 👍 (excited but anxious I should say).

I've also interviewed ~50 med school applicants over the past 3 years at my school so feel free to ask about that.

I'll give you no BS

 

[VictorAlpha]

hey what would you say to a non-trad about to enter who works hard (very hard - will get it done, count on it) but is not entirely confident in his own ability to perform at a high level on any one particular instance. Basically, will I be alright / am I really ready for this?

and yeah...i guess "there is only one way to find out"

...and um, this is...for a friend 🙂

 

[HughMyron]

Do you really need to bench 300+ to make it into Ortho?

 

[cwrig14]

Good luck to those applying and those accepted! Med school is quite a ride... you will both work harder than you have ever worked, and love what you are doing more than ever before.

I'm and MS4 with plenty of time on my hands and figured I'd share my persective on med school for anyone who has questions.

About me: I was a non-traditional applicant who completed a 2yr MS degree before matriculating to med school. This was a huge step for me and basically the only reason I got in to MD school because of the strides I made on my GPA and with research. I never bested 27 on the MCAT and had an undergrad GPA of 3.45.

Because of my time off I was more prepared for med school than most and was able to finish in the top 10% of my class (midwest top 40 NIH funded med school). I had plenty of research experience which was a huge boost for going after a competitive subspecialty. I'm going into orthopedic surgery and really looking forward to the March 15 match 👍 (excited but anxious I should say).

I've also interviewed ~50 med school applicants over the past 3 years at my school so feel free to ask about that.

I'll give you no BS

When did you start conducting research in MS? Was your research related to ortho or of another variety?

 

[OrthoPod57]

hey what would you say to a non-trad about to enter who works hard (very hard - will get it done, count on it) but is not entirely confident in his own ability to perform at a high level on any one particular instance. Basically, will I be alright / am I really ready for this?

and yeah...i guess "there is only one way to find out"

...and um, this is...for a friend 🙂

Why do you lack confidence in yourself? By "non-trad" I'm assuming you took time off doing something. Was it something that prepared you for med school? If so that is an asset you have that should give you confidence! If not then it will take some time to get used to being back in school. The biggest hurdle is getting in and it sounds like you managed that, congrats. You should do fine if you work hard and, as you put it, get it done!

 

[OrthoPod57]

Do you really need to bench 300+ to make it into Ortho?

I sure don't, and absolutly not. You actually stand out more in a good way if you don't fit the typical stereotypes, and that is probably true for most fields of medicine.

 

[cwrig14]

I sure don't, and absolutly not. You actually stand out more in a good way if you don't fit the typical stereotypes, and that is probably true for most fields of medicine.

Damn looks like it's time to start cutting again

 

[OrthoPod57]

When did you start conducting research in MS? Was your research related to ortho or of another variety?

Right out of college I went into my grad program. My degree was in the neurosciences and my projects definitely RELATED to ortho because they had to do with peripheral nerve injury and repair. I went into med school with an open mind, but particularly interested in neurology, ENT, neurosurg, and ortho.

I realized over several years in med school that I really liked surgery (eliminated neuro), I wanted to be in a feild that worked all over the body (eliminated ENT), and that I didn't ALWAYS want sick patients and I wanted a feild with overwhelmingly good outcomes (eliminated neurosurg).

The great thing about ortho for me are the people, the broad pt population, and the focus on alleviating pain and restoring funciton. I love that you can improve someones quality of life dramatically. If you want you can also save lives and go into trauma, tumor, etc.

Across the board the surgeries are great aswell.

 

[OrthoPod57]

Damn looks like it's time to start cutting again

hey, any way you can to bring a little diversity to the table. Right?

 

[VictorAlpha]

Why do you lack confidence in yourself? By "non-trad" I'm assuming you took time off doing something. Was it something that prepared you for med school? If so that is an asset you have that should give you confidence! If not then it will take some time to get used to being back in school. The biggest hurdle is getting in and it sounds like you managed that, congrats. You should do fine if you work hard and, as you put it, get it done!

Fair Answer. I got a master's (I needed GPA work). I suppose I've just built it up in my head over the last few years. I'll work hard and pay attention. One thing at a time and it'll work out.

 

[HughMyron]

I sure don't, and absolutly not. You actually stand out more in a good way if you don't fit the typical stereotypes, and that is probably true for most fields of medicine.

What ARE some of the other typical stereotypes for people in other specialties?

 

[OrthoPod57]

Fair Answer. I got a master's (I needed GPA work). I suppose I've just built it up in my head over the last few years. I'll work hard and pay attention. One thing at a time and it'll work out.

Well then, I and many others are living proof that a little post-bacc work can go a long way. Hopefully some of the biochem, physio, neuro, or whatever you did will be more of a review for you than most of your peers. Thats a chance to focus more on other classes or extracurriculars.

People have anxiety about differnt things. For me it was always big standardized tests that I got anxious about and lost sleep over. I never did well on ACT/SAT, never could nail the MCAT (took it 3x), but finally I must have matured or something because I found a way to do quite a bit better than national average on step 1 (around 240 which is average for ortho applicants) and then I did even better on step 2. Now I have confidence on standardize testing.

 

[OrthoPod57]

What ARE some of the other typical stereotypes for people in other specialties?

Not going there. You can read about that out yourself or just find out in med school.

 

[Sea Otter]

Anything specific you wish you had known before you started med school?

 

[WaylonS]

What ARE some of the other typical stereotypes for people in other specialties?

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Any advice for someone having second thoughts about taking the med school plunge? I was super excited about getting accepted until I started thinking about the debt (like 200k probably) and the long and brutal training. Not sure what to make of it.

Also, good luck in the ortho match!

 

[MedPR]

Suggestions for getting ahead in terms of ortho competitiveness from day 1?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[OrthoPod57]

Anything specific you wish you had known before you started med school?

I wish I knew how little time there was to figure out what area of medicine you want to go into. You are so busy in your first two years, but in hindsight I wish I had spent more of my own time shadowing, going to grand rounds in the different subspecialties, emailing attendings to ask them why they do what they do, etc. Now I'm not saying you should do all of this or that it should take away from your studies, but you do have some free time and this would be a good way to spend it.

Every med school has differnt ways and different times that they expose you to subspecialties. Mine focused much more on primary care so I didn't get to learn much about interventional radiology, Derm, optho, and some other cool fields until 4th year, which is too late to go into one of these competitive feilds.

Everything is getting more competitive so the best advice I got, which you should consider, is that IF you have ANY special interest in a competitive subspecialty early on... pursue it. Start research, get a mentor, shadow, etc. You can ALWAYS switch into a less competitive field if you decide you want that later on.

I got interested in ortho early and I pursued it hard even tho I didn't completely decide it was what I wanted to do until middle of third year.

 

[OrthoPod57]

Any advice for someone having second thoughts about taking the med school plunge? I was super excited about getting accepted until I started thinking about the debt (like 200k probably) and the long and brutal training. Not sure what to make of it.

Also, good luck in the ortho match!

Thanks!

You will work very hard and having second thoughts about it will make it even harder to put in the long hours. I had so much fun in med school because I developed a great group of friends and I had great support from my family. This made it one of the best 4 yrs of my life, and its less stressfull because HEY your in med school, your GOING to get a job an its going to be a secure one and pay way more than most people earn. Medicine is not what it used to be, but its still a great field. Nobody REALLY knows what the future holds but docs will always be needed etc.etc.etc. so you will have a job. I personally would be concerned about going into primary care these days but thats just my oppinion. Some people love it and cant see themselves doing anything else.

Ask yourself if you are doing it for the right reasons. If you are, don't let the hard work or debt deter you.

 

[deleted526486]

What advise would you give to people who haven't wanted to be a doctor for their entire lives regarding the application and interview process. I have always wanted to do something related to medicine, but only recently (~6 months ago) did I decide on medical school. Since then, I've done a lot to gain more exposure in medicine (volunteering in a clinic, ER scribe job, shadowing) in addition to some undergraduate experiences (clinical research for 4 years), but I'm afraid some/all medical schools might have questions about why I didn't immerse myself in clinical volunteering and shadowing earlier.

Any advise on how to sell such a situation?

 

[OrthoPod57]

Suggestions for getting ahead in terms of ortho competitiveness from day 1?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

this is likely to be true for any competitive subspecialty:

You want to get involved in some research and meet a mentor (preferably a big name) within your home dept early. This will give you a research project to put on your app and you can cultivate a relationship with an attending that will lead to a stong LOR later on. You need to work hard on this and show them you are respectful, kind, professional, all the good stuff. Summer between M1 and M2 year is a good chunk of free time to do this. HOWEVER, you can't spend too much time on any such extracurricular because doing ANYTHING that takes away from your ability to score well on step 1 is a big mistake. Step1 is still the holy grail of becoming a competitive residency applicant. Its where you either write your ticket, or dig yourself into a hole.

Fortunatly for those who do well but don't totally ROCK step 1, you can take step 2 early and it is a much easier test to score well on and residency programs are using it more frequently in their application screeting these days.

 

[MedPR]

this is likely to be true for any competitive subspecialty:

You want to get involved in some research and meet a mentor (preferably a big name) within your home dept early. This will give you a research project to put on your app and you can cultivate a relationship with an attending that will lead to a stong LOR later on. You need to work hard on this and show them you are respectful, kind, professional, all the good stuff. Summer between M1 and M2 year is a good chunk of free time to do this. HOWEVER, you can't spend too much time on any such extracurricular because doing ANYTHING that takes away from your ability to score well on step 1 is a big mistake. Step1 is still the holy grail of becoming a competitive residency applicant. Its where you either write your ticket, or dig yourself into a hole.

Fortunatly for those who do well but don't totally ROCK step 1, you can take step 2 early and it is a much easier test to score well on and residency programs are using it more frequently in their application screeting these days.

How do you know who is a big name?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[deleted526486]

Why not start off by telling the truth?

Well, obviously. But like anything related to medical school admissions there are certain ways of saying things that are helpful/neutral and certain ways of saying the same things that are harmful.

For example, it's obviously not a good idea to stress indecisiveness or say something like, "Oh yeah, I always have a hard time making up my mind".

 

[KnuxNole]

Saw this comic a few years ago, after going through rotations, I can pinpoint attendings in certain fields that meet those stereotypes 😛

 

[OrthoPod57]

What advise would you give to people who haven't wanted to be a doctor for their entire lives regarding the application and interview process. I have always wanted to do something related to medicine, but only recently (~6 months ago) did I decide on medical school. Since then, I've done a lot to gain more exposure in medicine (volunteering in a clinic, ER scribe job, shadowing) in addition to some undergraduate experiences (clinical research for 4 years), but I'm afraid some/all medical schools might have questions about why I didn't immerse myself in clinical volunteering and shadowing earlier.

Any advise on how to sell such a situation?

Hopefully, before recently immersing yourself in clinical experiences you were doing things that were building other important skills (leadership, teamwork, professionalism etc). Could be sports, interest groups, hobbies, whatever. Cite these expereinces as important milestones your personal development and maybe if/how they relate to your decision to apply for med school

you cant talk about clinical expereinces that arent there so you just have to find other things. Clinical expereinces are just one part of the equation. I've never screened applicants for interviews and I'm sure they look at the number and quality of clinical expereicnes so its good you are puting in that time now. However, I can tell you that intervewers will be likely be more interested in your unique experiences OUTSIDE of medicine when the interview you. So these are just as important. It doesnt matter so much when you decided to go into medicine, the why is much more important.

 

[OrthoPod57]

How do you know who is a big name?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

Usually the program director and chairman are the bigwigs. You can always ask a resident who they would recommend seeking out as a mentor. They have the inside scoop

 

[MedPR]

Usually the program director and chairman are the bigwigs. You can always ask a resident who they would recommend seeking out as a mentor. They have the inside scoop

Good stuff. Thanks man.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[deleted526486]

Hopefully, before recently immersing yourself in clinical experiences you were doing things that were building other important skills (leadership, teamwork, professionalism etc). Could be sports, interest groups, hobbies, whatever. Cite these expereinces as important milestones your personal development and maybe if/how they relate to your decision to apply for med school

you cant talk about clinical expereinces that arent there so you just have to find other things. Clinical expereinces are just one part of the equation. I've never screened applicants for interviews and I'm sure they look at the number and quality of clinical expereicnes so its good you are puting in that time now. However, I can tell you that intervewers will be likely be more interested in your unique experiences OUTSIDE of medicine when the interview you. So these are just as important. It doesnt matter so much when you decided to go into medicine, the why is much more important.

Thanks for all your help!

 

[OrthoPod57]

For example, it's obviously not a good idea to stress indecisiveness or say something like, "Oh yeah, I always have a hard time making up my mind".

Yea don't do that. Rather, tell them how you made up your mind. Its ok that it happened 6 mo ago and not 6 yrs ago. Just as long as you have a logical story based on your interests, experiences, etc. In many ways you have an easier job than someone who as "always wanted to be a doctor". You will be able to point to an event or series of events that happened recently and that could be unique if you pull it off.

Almost everyone has an interesting story, you just have to figure out how to comunicate it.

 

[OrthoPod57]

this is likely to be true for any competitive subspecialty:

You want to get involved in some research and meet a mentor (preferably a big name) within your home dept early. This will give you a research project to put on your app and you can cultivate a relationship with an attending that will lead to a stong LOR later on. You need to work hard on this and show them you are respectful, kind, professional, all the good stuff. Summer between M1 and M2 year is a good chunk of free time to do this. HOWEVER, you can't spend too much time on any such extracurricular because doing ANYTHING that takes away from your ability to score well on step 1 is a big mistake. Step1 is still the holy grail of becoming a competitive residency applicant. Its where you either write your ticket, or dig yourself into a hole.

Fortunatly for those who do well but don't totally ROCK step 1, you can take step 2 early and it is a much easier test to score well on and residency programs are using it more frequently in their application screeting these days.

I should add that it is a very good idea to get to know the med students a year or two ahead of you who are going into your feild of interest. My student "mentors" ahead of me have given me so much great advice about applications, faculty members to get close to and to avoid, away rotations, where to apply, etc. They will have the most uptodate info.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Thanks!

You will work very hard and having second thoughts about it will make it even harder to put in the long hours. I had so much fun in med school because I developed a great group of friends and I had great support from my family. This made it one of the best 4 yrs of my life, and its less stressfull because HEY your in med school, your GOING to get a job an its going to be a secure one and pay way more than most people earn. Medicine is not what it used to be, but its still a great field. Nobody REALLY knows what the future holds but docs will always be needed etc.etc.etc. so you will have a job. I personally would be concerned about going into primary care these days but thats just my oppinion. Some people love it and cant see themselves doing anything else.

Ask yourself if you are doing it for the right reasons. If you are, don't let the hard work or debt deter you.

Much appreciated. Luckily I have a lot of support too, which will hopefully make the whole thing much easier. Thanks again.