MSAR - MCAT statistics

[fas376]

I just bought the MSAR book and boy is it demoralizing. I'm confused about something, though. Let's take Texas A&M Health Science Center as an example.

According to their website: For the entering class of 2011, "the class is distinguished by a mean GPA of 3.63 and average total MCAT score of 29." The MSAR states that the median GPA is 3.85! That's a huge difference! I know the medians are sometimes higher or lower than the means, but I thought it would be plus or minus 0.05, not something drastic like 0.22. What gives?

This book is really helpful, but incredibly humbling. Some schools will list their mean MCAT on their sites as a 29, but the MSAR will list the median as a 33.

Let me know if anyone has any idea as to how the statistics can be so skewed. Medians of 3.65 vs. 3.85, along with a 29 vs. 33 is a ridiculous difference.

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[blizzah]

MSAR lists ACCEPTED data. Most likely, people with high stats are accepted at multiple schools, so they boost the medians listed in MSAR.

The A&M website gives matriculated data: ie. many of the high stats people given acceptances went elsewehere and did not matriculate at A&M.

If you want the stats of the students who actually went to the school, you want to look at US News.

 

[muhali3]

Accepted data is actually more beneficial to look at as an applicant.

However, matriculant data can tell you that it is still very possible to get accepted with stats below the accepted average.

 

[fas376]

MSAR lists ACCEPTED data. Most likely, people with high stats are accepted at multiple schools, so they boost the medians listed in MSAR.

The A&M website gives matriculated data: ie. many of the high stats people given acceptances went elsewehere and did not matriculate at A&M.

If you want the stats of the students who actually went to the school, you want to look at US News.

Well, I suppose that makes me feel better. I have a 3.65 and I know I'm not the most competitive applicant, but I figured I'd have a shot at least some schools, especially since I'm a Texas resident. Those stats honestly made me consider taking another year of classes to increase my GPA, but I'm going to hope that you're right. And what exactly does US News have that MSAR doesn't?

 

[jevo]

Did the new MSAR come out already?

 

[fas376]

Did the new MSAR come out already?

I have the 2012-2013 version, if that's what you're talking about. The book itself is garbage. The code and online resources are helpful (although apparently, a bit misleading).

 

[DAPI]

Did the new MSAR come out already?

No, he must have bought the old version, but it may not matter as I would suspect he will have access the the new version when it comes out as you get one year online access when you buy it.

 

[flatearth22]

Check out US News as well. It has mean matriculated MCAT/GPA data which is a little more realistic. The ideal would be median matriculated though....but that isn't out there.

 

[fas376]

Check out US News as well. It has mean matriculated MCAT/GPA data which is a little more realistic. The ideal would be median matriculated though....but that isn't out there.

Where can you find this? And how accurate is it? The reason I'm asking is because I haven't heard of it. I know popularity is a poor indication of how useful something is, but the last time I heard anything about US News was when I was in high school applying to undergrad.

 

[Hipster]

Does a larger discrepancy between the applicant # and matriculant # point to how desirable/undesirable a school is?

 

[fas376]

Does a larger discrepancy between the applicant # and matriculant # point to how desirable/undesirable a school is?

Desirable? What do you mean? I don't think I understand your question...

 

[flatearth22]

Where can you find this? And how accurate is it? The reason I'm asking is because I haven't heard of it. I know popularity is a poor indication of how useful something is, but the last time I heard anything about US News was when I was in high school applying to undergrad.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools

It costs $30 for a year of access. The numbers for applied and enrolled were the same as the MSAR last year so they likely went off the data for the Class of 2014 (so it would be Class of 2015 for this year's version). US News also shows you # interviewed and # accepted and further breaks it down by in-state, out-of-state, minorities, women, internationals, which is good to see because some schools accept most of the people they interview (Tulane at like 80%) while others accept few (GWU at like 25%), and some schools don't interview many OOS/internationals while others do.

 

[fas376]

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools

It costs $30 for a year of access. The numbers for applied and enrolled were the same as the MSAR last year so they likely went off the data for the Class of 2014 (so it would be Class of 2015 for this year's version). US News also shows you # interviewed and # accepted and further breaks it down by in-state, out-of-state, minorities, women, internationals, which is good to see because some schools accept most of the people they interview (Tulane at like 80%) while others except few (GWU at like 25%), and some schools don't interview many OOS/internationals while others do.

MSAR has all of that information, too. Don't get me wrong, the MSAR is an amazing source. It'll make the application a lot easier for me. But it's confusing going on a med school website and reading the average GPA is 3.63 and then reading 3.85 on the MSAR. The reason I say this is because that makes a huge difference on where I apply. My GPA is a 3.65 so if the average GPA for matriculants is a 3.63, of course I'll apply. But schools that have a 3.85, I'm less likely to apply to. You see what I mean? This is why I'm so confused. The data doesn't make any sense.

 

[blizzah]

MSAR has all of that information, too. Don't get me wrong, the MSAR is an amazing source. It'll make the application a lot easier for me. But it's confusing going on a med school website and reading the average GPA is 3.63 and then reading 3.85 on the MSAR. The reason I say this is because that makes a huge difference on where I apply. My GPA is a 3.65 so if the average GPA for matriculants is a 3.63, of course I'll apply. But schools that have a 3.85, I'm less likely to apply to. You see what I mean? This is why I'm so confused. The data doesn't make any sense.

MSAR doesn't tell you how many are accepted, just how many matriculate.

 

[muhali3]

MSAR has all of that information, too. Don't get me wrong, the MSAR is an amazing source. It'll make the application a lot easier for me. But it's confusing going on a med school website and reading the average GPA is 3.63 and then reading 3.85 on the MSAR. The reason I say this is because that makes a huge difference on where I apply. My GPA is a 3.65 so if the average GPA for matriculants is a 3.63, of course I'll apply. But schools that have a 3.85, I'm less likely to apply to. You see what I mean? This is why I'm so confused. The data doesn't make any sense.

Do you understand the difference between accepted and matriculated?

If a school's median GPA in the MSAR is 3.85, that means the middle GPA of all accepted applicants is a 3.85.

If the matriculant median is 3.63, that means the middle GPA of all matriculated applicants is a 3.63.

In this case that means many people with high GPAs that got accepted to this school chose to go somewhere else. The 3.85 is still the GPA you should be looking at to see how likely it is for you to get in. The accepted applicants could as well have chosen to all matriculate and then the median matriculant GPA would be a 3.85 as well.

 

[flatearth22]

MSAR has all of that information, too. Don't get me wrong, the MSAR is an amazing source. It'll make the application a lot easier for me. But it's confusing going on a med school website and reading the average GPA is 3.63 and then reading 3.85 on the MSAR. The reason I say this is because that makes a huge difference on where I apply. My GPA is a 3.65 so if the average GPA for matriculants is a 3.63, of course I'll apply. But schools that have a 3.85, I'm less likely to apply to. You see what I mean? This is why I'm so confused. The data doesn't make any sense.

MSAR doesn't have any info on how many students a school accepts. It only has applied, interviewed, and matriculated. Only USNews has applied, interviewed, accepted, and matriculated.

Yeah it's confusing....the MSAR numbers are inflated because they go by the median numbers of accepted students (even though they don't report how many they accepted). So a mid-tier school could accept a bunch of 4.0/36 students which bring up their median accepted values but the vast majority of those students go elsewhere so the mean matriculated values are much less (which is what USNews reports). You're going to be spending thousands of dollars in application fees, airfare, lodging, etc. so an extra $30 won't kill you....buying access to USNews was definately worth it for me.

For example I was able to prioritize interviews at schools that accepted a higher percentage of interviewees and also canceled an interview late in the season at a school that accepted a very low percentage of OOS interviewees.

 

[fas376]

MSAR doesn't tell you how many are accepted, just how many matriculate.

It's actually the opposite. I'm on the MSAR page right now, and all of the information deals with "GPA for Accepted Applicants" or "Total Median MCAT Score for Accepted Applicants"

 

[kduck]

It's actually the opposite. I'm on the MSAR page right now, and all of the information deals with "GPA for Accepted Applicants" or "Total Median MCAT Score for Accepted Applicants"

To clarify what everyone is telling you:
MSAR has GPA and MCAT for accepted students.
US News has GPA and MCAT for matriculated students.

MSAR has the # of students interviewed and # matriculated.
US News has # interviewed, # accepted, and # matriculated.

 

[flatearth22]

It's actually the opposite. I'm on the MSAR page right now, and all of the information deals with "GPA for Accepted Applicants" or "Total Median MCAT Score for Accepted Applicants"

Yes but MSAR doesn't tell you the # of students that are accepted. MSAR would report

Applied: 10,000
Interviewed: 1,000
Enrolled: 200

while USNews would report:

Applied: 10,000
Interviewed: 1,000
Accepted: 500
Enrolled: 200

for the same school

 

[fas376]

Yes but MSAR doesn't tell you the # of students that are accepted. MSAR would report

Applied: 10,000
Interviewed: 1,000
Enrolled: 200

while USNews would report:

Applied: 10,000
Interviewed: 1,000
Accepted: 500
Enrolled: 200

for the same school

The only thing I got from making this thread is that I wasted my money on the MSAR instead of the US News version *facepalm*

I guess I'll purchase it.

Are the GPAs pretty different for accepted vs. matriculated? Like I said, I'm applying in May (apps open up in May in Texas) and I'd like to see where I have a realistic shot at.

 

[circulus vitios]

Yes but MSAR doesn't tell you the # of students that are accepted. MSAR would report

Applied: 10,000
Interviewed: 1,000
Enrolled: 200

while USNews would report:

Applied: 10,000
Interviewed: 1,000
Accepted: 500
Enrolled: 200

for the same school

Does US News list out of state acceptances, additional requirements beyond the standard classes (e.g. biochemistry, social sciences, foreign language), and so on?

 

[flatearth22]

Does US News list out of state acceptances, additional requirements beyond the standard classes (e.g. biochemistry, social sciences, foreign language), and so on?

Yes, IIRC it breaks down by instate, OOS, international, female, and minority. It does have additional requirements but it doesn't say how many hours/semesters like the MSAR does.

 

[sector9]

US News doesn't have data for all medical schools though which is a definite drawback. US News relies on med schools self-reporting the info.